Total Posts:14|Showing Posts:1-14
Jump to topic:

Neocon Stereotypes?

CiRrK
Posts: 670
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/31/2012 11:11:43 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
So I see a lot of misconceptions about Neocons on this site. So Im curious to see what, in all your minds, a neoconservative is and/or what he believes. go.
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/31/2012 11:15:06 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Social conservative warmongers will be the common response you get.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
CiRrK
Posts: 670
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/31/2012 11:21:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
haha yeah thats the common one. Though I dont understand why some people make social conservatism and neoconservatism analogous. i lolol@that
Apollo.11
Posts: 3,478
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/31/2012 11:25:52 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/31/2012 11:21:08 AM, CiRrK wrote:
haha yeah thats the common one. Though I dont understand why some people make social conservatism and neoconservatism analogous. i lolol@that

Well one is an aspect of the other, is it not?
Sapere Aude!
CiRrK
Posts: 670
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/31/2012 11:29:16 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/31/2012 11:25:52 AM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 5/31/2012 11:21:08 AM, CiRrK wrote:
haha yeah thats the common one. Though I dont understand why some people make social conservatism and neoconservatism analogous. i lolol@that

Well one is an aspect of the other, is it not?

Accidentally, not essentially. To be neocon you do not have to be socially conservative. In most neocon circles, social conservatives are a means towards an end.
Apollo.11
Posts: 3,478
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/31/2012 11:36:50 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/31/2012 11:29:16 AM, CiRrK wrote:
At 5/31/2012 11:25:52 AM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 5/31/2012 11:21:08 AM, CiRrK wrote:
haha yeah thats the common one. Though I dont understand why some people make social conservatism and neoconservatism analogous. i lolol@that

Well one is an aspect of the other, is it not?

Accidentally, not essentially. To be neocon you do not have to be socially conservative. In most neocon circles, social conservatives are a means towards an end.

Perhaps, but this differentiation is irrelevant. Where one finds neoconservatism, one almost always finds social conservatism, as well. So when Microsuck says "I hate neocons" because of their social policy beliefs, he is not unjustified in asserting so as the majority of neocons hold socially conservative beliefs. He may have not used the most accurate terminology, but he is justified.
Sapere Aude!
CiRrK
Posts: 670
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/31/2012 11:40:39 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/31/2012 11:36:50 AM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 5/31/2012 11:29:16 AM, CiRrK wrote:
At 5/31/2012 11:25:52 AM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 5/31/2012 11:21:08 AM, CiRrK wrote:
haha yeah thats the common one. Though I dont understand why some people make social conservatism and neoconservatism analogous. i lolol@that

Well one is an aspect of the other, is it not?

Accidentally, not essentially. To be neocon you do not have to be socially conservative. In most neocon circles, social conservatives are a means towards an end.

Perhaps, but this differentiation is irrelevant. Where one finds neoconservatism, one almost always finds social conservatism, as well. So when Microsuck says "I hate neocons" because of their social policy beliefs, he is not unjustified in asserting so as the majority of neocons hold socially conservative beliefs. He may have not used the most accurate terminology, but he is justified.

Fair fair. Though let me revise your analysis slightly. Where one finds social conservatives one almost always finds elements of neoconservatism. Imo there are a negligible amount of actual neoconservatives.
Apollo.11
Posts: 3,478
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/31/2012 11:45:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/31/2012 11:40:39 AM, CiRrK wrote:
At 5/31/2012 11:36:50 AM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 5/31/2012 11:29:16 AM, CiRrK wrote:
At 5/31/2012 11:25:52 AM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 5/31/2012 11:21:08 AM, CiRrK wrote:
haha yeah thats the common one. Though I dont understand why some people make social conservatism and neoconservatism analogous. i lolol@that

Well one is an aspect of the other, is it not?

Accidentally, not essentially. To be neocon you do not have to be socially conservative. In most neocon circles, social conservatives are a means towards an end.

Perhaps, but this differentiation is irrelevant. Where one finds neoconservatism, one almost always finds social conservatism, as well. So when Microsuck says "I hate neocons" because of their social policy beliefs, he is not unjustified in asserting so as the majority of neocons hold socially conservative beliefs. He may have not used the most accurate terminology, but he is justified.

Fair fair. Though let me revise your analysis slightly. Where one finds social conservatives one almost always finds elements of neoconservatism. Imo there are a negligible amount of actual neoconservatives.
Considering the number of conservatives who went along with the foreign policy of the Bush years, I would have to disagree to an extent. But I do see your point. Neoconservatism is too radical of an ideology even for most conservatives.
Sapere Aude!
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/31/2012 11:52:16 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/31/2012 11:45:27 AM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 5/31/2012 11:40:39 AM, CiRrK wrote:
At 5/31/2012 11:36:50 AM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 5/31/2012 11:29:16 AM, CiRrK wrote:
At 5/31/2012 11:25:52 AM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 5/31/2012 11:21:08 AM, CiRrK wrote:
haha yeah thats the common one. Though I dont understand why some people make social conservatism and neoconservatism analogous. i lolol@that

Well one is an aspect of the other, is it not?

Accidentally, not essentially. To be neocon you do not have to be socially conservative. In most neocon circles, social conservatives are a means towards an end.

Perhaps, but this differentiation is irrelevant. Where one finds neoconservatism, one almost always finds social conservatism, as well. So when Microsuck says "I hate neocons" because of their social policy beliefs, he is not unjustified in asserting so as the majority of neocons hold socially conservative beliefs. He may have not used the most accurate terminology, but he is justified.

Fair fair. Though let me revise your analysis slightly. Where one finds social conservatives one almost always finds elements of neoconservatism. Imo there are a negligible amount of actual neoconservatives.
Considering the number of conservatives who went along with the foreign policy of the Bush years, I would have to disagree to an extent. But I do see your point. Neoconservatism is too radical of an ideology even for most conservatives.

I don't see it being radical :P

*apollo replies "because that's you"*
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
CiRrK
Posts: 670
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/31/2012 11:55:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/31/2012 11:45:27 AM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 5/31/2012 11:40:39 AM, CiRrK wrote:
At 5/31/2012 11:36:50 AM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 5/31/2012 11:29:16 AM, CiRrK wrote:
At 5/31/2012 11:25:52 AM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 5/31/2012 11:21:08 AM, CiRrK wrote:
haha yeah thats the common one. Though I dont understand why some people make social conservatism and neoconservatism analogous. i lolol@that

Well one is an aspect of the other, is it not?

Accidentally, not essentially. To be neocon you do not have to be socially conservative. In most neocon circles, social conservatives are a means towards an end.

Perhaps, but this differentiation is irrelevant. Where one finds neoconservatism, one almost always finds social conservatism, as well. So when Microsuck says "I hate neocons" because of their social policy beliefs, he is not unjustified in asserting so as the majority of neocons hold socially conservative beliefs. He may have not used the most accurate terminology, but he is justified.

Fair fair. Though let me revise your analysis slightly. Where one finds social conservatives one almost always finds elements of neoconservatism. Imo there are a negligible amount of actual neoconservatives.
Considering the number of conservatives who went along with the foreign policy of the Bush years, I would have to disagree to an extent. But I do see your point. Neoconservatism is too radical of an ideology even for most conservatives.

Thats why I think the accidental/essential distinction is important in understanding what neoconservatism actually is. Many conservatives went along with Bush, but if questioned probably know nothing of the history nor actual ideology of NC. In terms of radicalism...meh..depends on what you mean by radical.
Apollo.11
Posts: 3,478
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/31/2012 11:55:52 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/31/2012 11:52:16 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 5/31/2012 11:45:27 AM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 5/31/2012 11:40:39 AM, CiRrK wrote:
At 5/31/2012 11:36:50 AM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 5/31/2012 11:29:16 AM, CiRrK wrote:
At 5/31/2012 11:25:52 AM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 5/31/2012 11:21:08 AM, CiRrK wrote:
haha yeah thats the common one. Though I dont understand why some people make social conservatism and neoconservatism analogous. i lolol@that

Well one is an aspect of the other, is it not?

Accidentally, not essentially. To be neocon you do not have to be socially conservative. In most neocon circles, social conservatives are a means towards an end.

Perhaps, but this differentiation is irrelevant. Where one finds neoconservatism, one almost always finds social conservatism, as well. So when Microsuck says "I hate neocons" because of their social policy beliefs, he is not unjustified in asserting so as the majority of neocons hold socially conservative beliefs. He may have not used the most accurate terminology, but he is justified.

Fair fair. Though let me revise your analysis slightly. Where one finds social conservatives one almost always finds elements of neoconservatism. Imo there are a negligible amount of actual neoconservatives.
Considering the number of conservatives who went along with the foreign policy of the Bush years, I would have to disagree to an extent. But I do see your point. Neoconservatism is too radical of an ideology even for most conservatives.

I don't see it being radical :P

*apollo replies "because that's you"*
Natürlich tun Sie nicht, Hitler...
Sapere Aude!
Apollo.11
Posts: 3,478
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/31/2012 12:00:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/31/2012 11:55:19 AM, CiRrK wrote:
At 5/31/2012 11:45:27 AM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 5/31/2012 11:40:39 AM, CiRrK wrote:
At 5/31/2012 11:36:50 AM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 5/31/2012 11:29:16 AM, CiRrK wrote:
At 5/31/2012 11:25:52 AM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 5/31/2012 11:21:08 AM, CiRrK wrote:
haha yeah thats the common one. Though I dont understand why some people make social conservatism and neoconservatism analogous. i lolol@that

Well one is an aspect of the other, is it not?

Accidentally, not essentially. To be neocon you do not have to be socially conservative. In most neocon circles, social conservatives are a means towards an end.

Perhaps, but this differentiation is irrelevant. Where one finds neoconservatism, one almost always finds social conservatism, as well. So when Microsuck says "I hate neocons" because of their social policy beliefs, he is not unjustified in asserting so as the majority of neocons hold socially conservative beliefs. He may have not used the most accurate terminology, but he is justified.

Fair fair. Though let me revise your analysis slightly. Where one finds social conservatives one almost always finds elements of neoconservatism. Imo there are a negligible amount of actual neoconservatives.
Considering the number of conservatives who went along with the foreign policy of the Bush years, I would have to disagree to an extent. But I do see your point. Neoconservatism is too radical of an ideology even for most conservatives.

Thats why I think the accidental/essential distinction is important in understanding what neoconservatism actually is.
Well, neocons tend to be just as fascist as social cons, whether incidentally or by definition. And considering social libertarians are rarely ever neocons, i'm leaning toward an ideological correspondence between the two.
Many conservatives went along with Bush, but if questioned probably know nothing of the history nor actual ideology of NC.
....or anything....about anything for that matter.
In terms of radicalism...meh..depends on what you mean by radical.
Well, from a neocon's perspective, sanity is a radical left-wing thinking.
Sapere Aude!
CiRrK
Posts: 670
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/31/2012 12:10:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/31/2012 12:00:22 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 5/31/2012 11:55:19 AM, CiRrK wrote:
At 5/31/2012 11:45:27 AM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 5/31/2012 11:40:39 AM, CiRrK wrote:
At 5/31/2012 11:36:50 AM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 5/31/2012 11:29:16 AM, CiRrK wrote:
At 5/31/2012 11:25:52 AM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 5/31/2012 11:21:08 AM, CiRrK wrote:
haha yeah thats the common one. Though I dont understand why some people make social conservatism and neoconservatism analogous. i lolol@that

Well one is an aspect of the other, is it not?

Accidentally, not essentially. To be neocon you do not have to be socially conservative. In most neocon circles, social conservatives are a means towards an end.

Perhaps, but this differentiation is irrelevant. Where one finds neoconservatism, one almost always finds social conservatism, as well. So when Microsuck says "I hate neocons" because of their social policy beliefs, he is not unjustified in asserting so as the majority of neocons hold socially conservative beliefs. He may have not used the most accurate terminology, but he is justified.

Fair fair. Though let me revise your analysis slightly. Where one finds social conservatives one almost always finds elements of neoconservatism. Imo there are a negligible amount of actual neoconservatives.
Considering the number of conservatives who went along with the foreign policy of the Bush years, I would have to disagree to an extent. But I do see your point. Neoconservatism is too radical of an ideology even for most conservatives.

Thats why I think the accidental/essential distinction is important in understanding what neoconservatism actually is.
Well, neocons tend to be just as fascist as social cons, whether incidentally or by definition. And considering social libertarians are rarely ever neocons, i'm leaning toward an ideological correspondence between the two.

Theres so many logical fallacies in that. Obviously social libertarians wont be neocons because they are libertarians...their view on both necessity and legality of interventionism diverges. Moreover, just because social conservatives and neocons seem "fascistic" to you doesnt mean they are related or remotely believe the same

Many conservatives went along with Bush, but if questioned probably know nothing of the history nor actual ideology of NC.
....or anything....about anything for that matter.

Stupidity is not an exclusively rightwing phenomenon

In terms of radicalism...meh..depends on what you mean by radical.
Well, from a neocon's perspective, sanity is a radical left-wing thinking.

Hey come come. Lets not devolve into insults and generalizations. Especially false ones : )