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Abortion and Child Support

LibertyCampbell
Posts: 288
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5/31/2012 2:42:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Here is an observation of mine:

A woman gets pregnant, has full say over whether the child is a member of the human community, and decides to kill the child against the fathers wishes.

A woman gets pregnant, has full say over whether the child is a member of the human community, has the child, and promptly forces the father to pay child support, against his wishes. As if it was the fathers fault that the woman had the child. In fact, in most cases the father is not even allowed custody of the child he is paying to raise.

Women get 100% control over the life of the child, but men get 100% of the responsibility. This is completely unfair; 50 years ago each side would have 50% control and 50% responsibility. But now men are seen as these evil, vile organisms that come in and impregnate women against their wishes, as if they, the women, had absolutely no control over whether they get pregnant or not.

If you want fathers to pay child support, they deserve to be able to protect the rights of their child while it is still in the womb of its mother.

If you want abortion, fathers deserve to the same rights as women, to be able to determine whether or not that clump of cells is actually a member of the human community, and avoid/pay child support as he sees fit.

You can't have it both ways without being sexist.
"[Society] has no vested interest in continuing to exist." -RP
YYW
Posts: 36,391
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5/31/2012 3:24:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/31/2012 2:42:18 PM, LibertyCampbell wrote:
Here is an observation of mine:

A woman gets pregnant, has full say over whether the child is a member of the human community, and decides to kill the child against the fathers wishes.

A woman gets pregnant, has full say over whether the child is a member of the human community, has the child, and promptly forces the father to pay child support, against his wishes. As if it was the fathers fault that the woman had the child. In fact, in most cases the father is not even allowed custody of the child he is paying to raise.


Women get 100% control over the life of the child, but men get 100% of the responsibility. This is completely unfair; 50 years ago each side would have 50% control and 50% responsibility. But now men are seen as these evil, vile organisms that come in and impregnate women against their wishes, as if they, the women, had absolutely no control over whether they get pregnant or not.

If you want fathers to pay child support, they deserve to be able to protect the rights of their child while it is still in the womb of its mother.

If you want abortion, fathers deserve to the same rights as women, to be able to determine whether or not that clump of cells is actually a member of the human community, and avoid/pay child support as he sees fit.

You can't have it both ways without being sexist.

This is, possibly, the most insightful thing you have posted that I have read. Although I would clarify that the father should have no responsibility for the raising of the child unless the child was born to married parents. I can't see any efficient way to give father's the right to decide wether or not to abort the child/fetus/whatever, because paternity would have to be established for any legal weight to be afforded to the father, and DNA testing is expensive, not very efficient, and a host of other complications. The law often prefers efficiency instead of/at the expense of "fairness" and not making the father pay child support would be the most prudent way to go about that. I would also submit that this would probably either (1) increase abortion rates and/or (2) reduce teen pregnancy in and of itself.
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Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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5/31/2012 3:31:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/31/2012 2:42:18 PM, LibertyCampbell wrote:
Here is an observation of mine:

A woman gets pregnant, has full say over whether the child is a member of the human community, and decides to kill the child against the fathers wishes.

A woman gets pregnant, has full say over whether the child is a member of the human community, has the child, and promptly forces the father to pay child support, against his wishes. As if it was the fathers fault that the woman had the child. In fact, in most cases the father is not even allowed custody of the child he is paying to raise.


Women get 100% control over the life of the child, but men get 100% of the responsibility. This is completely unfair; 50 years ago each side would have 50% control and 50% responsibility. But now men are seen as these evil, vile organisms that come in and impregnate women against their wishes, as if they, the women, had absolutely no control over whether they get pregnant or not.

If you want fathers to pay child support, they deserve to be able to protect the rights of their child while it is still in the womb of its mother.

If you want abortion, fathers deserve to the same rights as women, to be able to determine whether or not that clump of cells is actually a member of the human community, and avoid/pay child support as he sees fit.

You can't have it both ways without being sexist.

The Mother has the right to her own body, as per normal. But the father should not have to pay child support. Isn't that the alternative? I think that works a lot better. They can't say "I want to pay child support, therefore you're having a baby" anymore than they can use that as an excuse to rape people on the streets... (yes, that's hyperbole)
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YYW
Posts: 36,391
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5/31/2012 3:37:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/31/2012 3:31:41 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 5/31/2012 2:42:18 PM, LibertyCampbell wrote:
Here is an observation of mine:

A woman gets pregnant, has full say over whether the child is a member of the human community, and decides to kill the child against the fathers wishes.

A woman gets pregnant, has full say over whether the child is a member of the human community, has the child, and promptly forces the father to pay child support, against his wishes. As if it was the fathers fault that the woman had the child. In fact, in most cases the father is not even allowed custody of the child he is paying to raise.


Women get 100% control over the life of the child, but men get 100% of the responsibility. This is completely unfair; 50 years ago each side would have 50% control and 50% responsibility. But now men are seen as these evil, vile organisms that come in and impregnate women against their wishes, as if they, the women, had absolutely no control over whether they get pregnant or not.

If you want fathers to pay child support, they deserve to be able to protect the rights of their child while it is still in the womb of its mother.

If you want abortion, fathers deserve to the same rights as women, to be able to determine whether or not that clump of cells is actually a member of the human community, and avoid/pay child support as he sees fit.

You can't have it both ways without being sexist.

The Mother has the right to her own body, as per normal. But the father should not have to pay child support. Isn't that the alternative? I think that works a lot better. They can't say "I want to pay child support, therefore you're having a baby" anymore than they can use that as an excuse to rape people on the streets... (yes, that's hyperbole)

Ah... Hawkings... I knew you had a sense of humor.
Tsar of DDO
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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5/31/2012 3:40:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
This is another example of why I oppose feminism. I support equal rights. Not just women's rights. Not just men's rights. Equal rights for all. And child care is a prime example of where men are given the worst end of the deal, same with prison sentences.
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OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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5/31/2012 3:48:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/31/2012 3:40:17 PM, Contra wrote:
This is another example of why I oppose feminism. I support equal rights. Not just women's rights. Not just men's rights. Equal rights for all. And child care is a prime example of where men are given the worst end of the deal, same with prison sentences.

Feminism was great, until females had equal rights, and the feminists still weren't happy.
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