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Gun politics: a response to contra

16kadams
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6/3/2012 10:47:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
As we know, am one of the most pro gun on this site; supporting almost no gun regulation and all. Contra made a forum, which I responded on my phone, so the response to the forum likely seemed "short". I will respond to it in detail, then provide evidence of gun control failing.

1. Comparing countries

The main thing in that forum was the UK had low gun ownership and low crime. But this correlation is found to have many statistical inconsistencies. [1] The main thing it ignores is the prior crime rates. The UK and other European countries already had a lower crime rate before us, do to many of those hidden factors, meaning them having a lower crime rate then the US makes sense. There has been vary little empirical evidence, I have spent hours trying to find some, that proves the UK gun laws are the reason they have lower crime rates. Comparing countries is like comparing apples and oranges as it uses endonegity, which is like the formal fallacy in statistics.

2. The logic: guns lower crime

The logic behind my more guns less crime hypothesis is more then a rant and the most comprehensive data sets known to man, it is also basic psychology. It is the lovely thing known as deterrence. Deterrence theory is a theory that implies that criminals respond to retribution and possible consequence. [2] Having a gun in the home(s) makes it more likely for people to be hesitant. In the UK, about 50% of robberies happen in the night, in the US the number is closer too 10%. [3] Why this matters? The writer of the source went to American and UK prisons and took a survey. When he asked the people in the US why they did not rob people in the night the overwhelming answer he obtained was that's a good way to get shot. At night everyone is at home. So they where saying they where deterred by guns, in the US. In the UK, he got the opposite. He asked why do they rob in the night 50% of the time. Most of them said they owned fire arms (a question he asked first, not in the UK guns are banned except for shotguns, which take registration). So then he asked why they robbed whenever. Most of the people said they knew their victims would not fight back and are unarmed. So an unarmed populace means no one was deterred.

Important facts:

US:

Guns deter criminals, this is shown by casing and surveys done too convicted criminals.

UK:

An unarmed populace means the criminals dont care and rob whily nilly.
_____

Now a common argument is criminals are psychopaths. This is actually false: Most criminals are sane. [5] Now, even if we assume 90% of criminals are insane, 10% can be deterred. If 5/10 of those people get deterred by guns an increase in gun ownership or the passage of a conceal carry law means the crime rate and the frequency of these crime would drop. But as the majority of these crimes are not insane, we can assume large potential gains (logically) with guns.

3. More guns less crime?

Is it possible more guns could equate less crime? Is it possible facts are against the gun crowd? Yes, they are.

Keensaw, Georgia - A law was passed so every head of the household was required to own a gun. Results? Not old wild west like contra would have you believe. After the law crime actually plummeted. And in 2005, the law was passed in 1981, the crime was still significantly lower then it was at the time of the law. And before the law crime was significantly higher then the national average. Here are some interesting fundings:

Population before the law - 5000
Now - 28,000

Crime rate before the law - 4,332 per 100,000
Crime rate years later - 2,027 per 100,000

So as population exploded, crime rate fell. Also note the city was murer free for 25 years.[6]

Israel - Highest gun owning country. "In Israel and Switzerland, for example, a license to possess guns is available on demand to every law-abiding adult, and guns are easily obtainable in both nations. Both countries also allow widespread carrying of concealed firearms, and yet, admits Dr. Arthur Kellerman, one of the foremost medical advocates of gun control, Switzerland and Israel "have rates of homicide that are low despite rates of home firearm ownership that are at least as high as those in the United States." A comparison of crime rates within Europe reveals no correlation between access to guns and crime."[7]

Even if contra, or anyone else supporting gun control for that matter uses the old look at UK mantra, we can always either show flaws (above) or just use the same type of data against them: Switzerland and Israel. And Keensaw Georgia.

4. Gun control: failures

Washington DC - DC's population fell 20% since the ban, and their crime rate has been soaring. (until they ended the ban in 2010 in DC v. Heller) Murder rose 250% whilst population rose 20%. Note the increase DID NOT START BEFORE THE BAN, but only RIGHT AFTER. Direct correlation.

Chicago - They also had a ban similar to DC's, until struck down by MacDonald v. Chicago. After their gun ban their crime rates went from fairly moderate to some of the highest in the nation, and rose much faster then the overall US crime rates.

UK - Weren't we talking about this earlier? Yes. After their gun ban the amount of crimes with guns exploded, actually rising faster then before. Note criminals still obtained the guns after the ban, meaning the ban disarms the people not the criminals. Food for thought. Their overall murder rate rose as well.

Jamaica - Since their ban, their crime rates have gone sky high and now are near the highest in the world. It is also higher (double then) the crime rates of all of its Caribbean peers. Their murder rate has not been below 10/100,000 since the ban.

Canada - Their enforcements have been futile in preventing illegal weapons, most of the weapons they obtain is from dumb American tourists. Their gun laws have been shown to decrease crime by 3%, but this is due to natural fluctuation and is not near the US's drop in crime. Meaning their gun law had no effect.

Source for gun control failures: Lott, John R. "More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun-control Laws." 3rd ed. Vol. 1. Chicago: University of Chicago, 2010.

Contra, your in a losing argument.

Graphs:

(Note UK violent crime is higher then US's)
http://www.debate.org...

(Jamaica)
http://www.debate.org...

(Ireland, beer)
http://www.debate.org...

And conceal carry on crime (more guns, less crime)
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

Sorry contra, your points are based on faulty data, false data, or nonsense my sister would refute, and shes 10. Meaning your gun control BS is, well, BS.

Sorry, "common knowlege" was refuted, and even better was what also helped me was Koopins town of Keensaw Georgia

And this is why gun control is Bullsh!t.

[1] One of them is known as endonegity. It happens when you omit other probable factors, prior crime rate, culture, population, other laws such as incarnation rates etc.
[2] This has been proven by many economic studies. Most notably Gary S. Baker (1968) but is still refereed as valid by economists. For more on deterrence: http://en.wikipedia.org...
[3] Lott, John R. "The Bias Against Guns, why Almost Everything You'Ve Heard About Gun Control Is Wrong" (2003)
[5] http://news.google.com...
[6] http://www.wnd.com...
[7] http://www.cato.org...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
FREEDO
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6/4/2012 3:43:28 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Sooo...if you're replying to Contra's thread...why didn't you just...reply to Contra's thread?
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
16kadams
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6/4/2012 8:19:00 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 3:43:28 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Sooo...if you're replying to Contra's thread...why didn't you just...reply to Contra's thread?

Cause a lot of the post is a general post and more of an FYI
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"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Contra
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6/4/2012 9:36:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Interesting statistics. Although a few fallacies were present in your argument.

First, I never made a case defending gun control. I asked a simple rhetorical question, which nobody ever refuted. Second, I think I would beat your sister in debate.

I basically have a moderate position on guns in general, similar to Bill Clinton's view on gun control: people have a right to own guns, but people must be registered, have a mandatory background check, and there is limited weapons control, so somebody can't own a tank, nuclear device, or some semi-automatic firearms that aren't used to kill deer.

And guns shouldn't be allowed in schools. Armed guards are enough.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

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Contra
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6/4/2012 9:40:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
To be honest, I have been convinced 16k that gun control is bad. Guns should be legal, with some basic regulations in place (stored when not in use, or mandatory minimum training).

I am now pro-gun, to a degree, but not in schools.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Lordknukle
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6/4/2012 10:03:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 9:40:09 PM, Contra wrote:
To be honest, I have been convinced 16k that gun control is bad. Guns should be legal, with some basic regulations in place (stored when not in use, or mandatory minimum training).

I am now pro-gun, to a degree, but not in schools.

When was anybody other than a hardcore redneck pro-guns in schools? Even as a libertarian, I have to say that that is one of the most stupidest ideas that I have ever heard.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Contra
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6/4/2012 10:10:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 10:03:16 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/4/2012 9:40:09 PM, Contra wrote:
To be honest, I have been convinced 16k that gun control is bad. Guns should be legal, with some basic regulations in place (stored when not in use, or mandatory minimum training).

I am now pro-gun, to a degree, but not in schools.

When was anybody other than a hardcore redneck pro-guns in schools? Even as a libertarian, I have to say that that is one of the most stupidest ideas that I have ever heard.

Many conservatives rave and lavish the stories of guns in schools in the 1950s. But I'm glad that you agree with me LK.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Apollo.11
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6/4/2012 10:13:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 10:03:16 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/4/2012 9:40:09 PM, Contra wrote:
To be honest, I have been convinced 16k that gun control is bad. Guns should be legal, with some basic regulations in place (stored when not in use, or mandatory minimum training).

I am now pro-gun, to a degree, but not in schools.

When was anybody other than a hardcore redneck pro-guns in schools? Even as a libertarian, I have to say that that is one of the most stupidest ideas that I have ever heard.
You should come down to Texas some time.
Sapere Aude!
16kadams
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6/4/2012 11:10:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 9:36:19 PM, Contra wrote:
Interesting statistics. Although a few fallacies were present in your argument.

First, I never made a case defending gun control. I asked a simple rhetorical question, which nobody ever refuted. Second, I think I would beat your sister in debate.

The sister part was me being mean ;)

Also, which question are you referring too? I got most of it.


I basically have a moderate position on guns in general, similar to Bill Clinton's view on gun control: people have a right to own guns, but people must be registered, have a mandatory background check, and there is limited weapons control, so somebody can't own a tank, nuclear device, or some semi-automatic firearms that aren't used to kill deer.

Again, these bans and controls mean well but really do harm, it increSes crime as it limits ownership and lethal weaponry. This lowers the deterrent effect guns have.

Also keensaw georgia. All gun owners semi auto pistols that don't kill dear and are made to kill humans. Their crime dropped 70%


And guns shouldn't be allowed in schools. Armed guards are enough.

Lol. Why? When they where allowed school shooting where unheard of. Not until we made gun free zones did gun shooting happen.

Notice most public shootings that result in death occur on gun free zones.

I recomend the book "the bias agaibst guns" John Lott
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
16kadams
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6/4/2012 11:16:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 9:40:09 PM, Contra wrote:
To be honest, I have been convinced 16k that gun control is bad. Guns should be legal, with some basic regulations in place (stored when not in use, or mandatory minimum training).

I am now pro-gun, to a degree, but not in schools.

Statistics show allowing guns in schools lowers the amount of gun deaths on school grounds. (if you have a CCW permit they should be allowed)

Apollo, you, and LK have not read the amount of literature I have read in the subject, trust me.

Here's a good start: http://mises.org...

Here's another, hundreds if pages of research bit fully in the subject though:
More guns less crime by John Lott

And

The bias against gubs by John Lott

Contact me when finished ;)
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
darkkermit
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6/4/2012 11:29:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 11:16:23 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 6/4/2012 9:40:09 PM, Contra wrote:
To be honest, I have been convinced 16k that gun control is bad. Guns should be legal, with some basic regulations in place (stored when not in use, or mandatory minimum training).

I am now pro-gun, to a degree, but not in schools.

Statistics show allowing guns in schools lowers the amount of gun deaths on school grounds. (if you have a CCW permit they should be allowed)

Apollo, you, and LK have not read the amount of literature I have read in the subject, trust me.

Here's a good start: http://mises.org...

Here's another, hundreds if pages of research bit fully in the subject though:
More guns less crime by John Lott

And

The bias against gubs by John Lott

Contact me when finished ;)

Article shows that teachers and administrators should have guns. However students shouldn't have guns in school.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
16kadams
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6/4/2012 11:34:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 11:29:54 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 6/4/2012 11:16:23 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 6/4/2012 9:40:09 PM, Contra wrote:
To be honest, I have been convinced 16k that gun control is bad. Guns should be legal, with some basic regulations in place (stored when not in use, or mandatory minimum training).

I am now pro-gun, to a degree, but not in schools.

Statistics show allowing guns in schools lowers the amount of gun deaths on school grounds. (if you have a CCW permit they should be allowed)

Apollo, you, and LK have not read the amount of literature I have read in the subject, trust me.

Here's a good start: http://mises.org...

Here's another, hundreds if pages of research bit fully in the subject though:
More guns less crime by John Lott

And

The bias against gubs by John Lott

Contact me when finished ;)

Article shows that teachers and administrators should have guns. However students shouldn't have guns in school.

If you are 21 and have a CCW I see no problem with it

Utah has that -- no college school shooting since
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
bossyburrito
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6/4/2012 11:38:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 11:34:24 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 6/4/2012 11:29:54 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 6/4/2012 11:16:23 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 6/4/2012 9:40:09 PM, Contra wrote:
To be honest, I have been convinced 16k that gun control is bad. Guns should be legal, with some basic regulations in place (stored when not in use, or mandatory minimum training).

I am now pro-gun, to a degree, but not in schools.

Statistics show allowing guns in schools lowers the amount of gun deaths on school grounds. (if you have a CCW permit they should be allowed)

Apollo, you, and LK have not read the amount of literature I have read in the subject, trust me.

Here's a good start: http://mises.org...

Here's another, hundreds if pages of research bit fully in the subject though:
More guns less crime by John Lott

And

The bias against gubs by John Lott

Contact me when finished ;)

Article shows that teachers and administrators should have guns. However students shouldn't have guns in school.

If you are 21 and have a CCW I see no problem with it

Utah has that -- no college school shooting since

Oh... I thought you literally meant 12 year olds with glocks or something.
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16kadams
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6/4/2012 11:43:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 11:38:40 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 6/4/2012 11:34:24 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 6/4/2012 11:29:54 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 6/4/2012 11:16:23 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 6/4/2012 9:40:09 PM, Contra wrote:
To be honest, I have been convinced 16k that gun control is bad. Guns should be legal, with some basic regulations in place (stored when not in use, or mandatory minimum training).

I am now pro-gun, to a degree, but not in schools.

Statistics show allowing guns in schools lowers the amount of gun deaths on school grounds. (if you have a CCW permit they should be allowed)

Apollo, you, and LK have not read the amount of literature I have read in the subject, trust me.

Here's a good start: http://mises.org...

Here's another, hundreds if pages of research bit fully in the subject though:
More guns less crime by John Lott

And

The bias against gubs by John Lott

Contact me when finished ;)

Article shows that teachers and administrators should have guns. However students shouldn't have guns in school.

If you are 21 and have a CCW I see no problem with it

Utah has that -- no college school shooting since

Oh... I thought you literally meant 12 year olds with glocks or something.

12 year olds can't get CCW permits. My view:

Gun clubs ok, only under supervised conditions when shooting
21 year old with CCW permit carries guns, worked in the past
Teachers with CCW permits, works now

My view on government gun control

Gun free zones are the most idiotic drivel price of crap idea invented (FYI)

Only gun control I support is the NRA insta backround check
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
16kadams
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6/4/2012 11:44:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
All of my views are based on 100s of pages of analysis btw
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Zaradi
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6/5/2012 12:00:47 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Hmmm....gun control. Let's give a view on my thoughts about the issue** xD

I think, to a very minimum degree, that we should have gun regulations. Hell, even SOME guns on school grounds (they would be in teacher's possessions who have been at least minimally trained in safety and storage, as well as how to use it. Gun possession for student's on campus would still be illegal). In general, I think that the more widely possessed gun possetion is among our population, the less likely people are going to commit a crime against us, as they know we will be armed and will retaliate, or at least attempt to retaliate, against the criminal.

Even on Assault Weapons, such as fully automatic firing rifles and such, I feel that there should be reduced regulation on that to the point where the public could gain access to it. For those who might feel squeemish about letting the average American just walk into a Bass Pro Shop and walk about with a fully automatic AK-101, all we would have to do to keep it from getting too out of control is just make it a b*tch to get access to. Long courses stretching over a span of weeks, months, and ramp up the price tag to keep it out of every redneck-with-a-grudge's hands, but into those who are willing to put up with the pain in the a** stuff to get it legally.

Now some might say, "Hey, if he's talking about assault weapons, does that include things like bazookas and grenade launchers!?" This I am not including in assault weapons, and instead classify as explosives, which should, and I think are, be off-limits to the general public, and for obvious reasons. Even if a fully automatic weapon is mishandled and played around with, the worst it could do is one death, maybe a serious flesh wound of some sort (bullet through the foot, leg, knee (lol xD) etc.). An explosive, however, has the potential to wipe out entire families, as well as cause significant or total destruction to cars and buildings. This is too much destructive power to be putting into the hands of every-day citizens, even if we make it utter hell to get access to.

So there are my two cents. Feel free to tell me how much of an idiot redneck I am.

**Note: I live in Texas, and may possess a slight red-neck bias to guns and firearms of all sorts. If my opinions about firearms offend you, feel free to ignore them for the reason that I'm probably just some "dumb ol' redneck-country-bumpkin with no brains"**
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Calvincambridge
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6/5/2012 8:24:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
No I support guns the most allowing anyone to own any weapon. Except criminals. I just don't make 10000000 + forums and debates about it.
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16kadams
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6/5/2012 8:35:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/5/2012 12:00:47 AM, Zaradi wrote:
Hmmm....gun control. Let's give a view on my thoughts about the issue** xD

I think, to a very minimum degree, that we should have gun regulations. Hell, even SOME guns on school grounds (they would be in teacher's possessions who have been at least minimally trained in safety and storage, as well as how to use it. Gun possession for student's on campus would still be illegal). In general, I think that the more widely possessed gun possetion is among our population, the less likely people are going to commit a crime against us, as they know we will be armed and will retaliate, or at least attempt to retaliate, against the criminal.

Even on Assault Weapons, such as fully automatic firing rifles and such, I feel that there should be reduced regulation on that to the point where the public could gain access to it. For those who might feel squeemish about letting the average American just walk into a Bass Pro Shop and walk about with a fully automatic AK-101, all we would have to do to keep it from getting too out of control is just make it a b*tch to get access to. Long courses stretching over a span of weeks, months, and ramp up the price tag to keep it out of every redneck-with-a-grudge's hands, but into those who are willing to put up with the pain in the a** stuff to get it legally.

Now some might say, "Hey, if he's talking about assault weapons, does that include things like bazookas and grenade launchers!?" This I am not including in assault weapons, and instead classify as explosives, which should, and I think are, be off-limits to the general public, and for obvious reasons. Even if a fully automatic weapon is mishandled and played around with, the worst it could do is one death, maybe a serious flesh wound of some sort (bullet through the foot, leg, knee (lol xD) etc.). An explosive, however, has the potential to wipe out entire families, as well as cause significant or total destruction to cars and buildings. This is too much destructive power to be putting into the hands of every-day citizens, even if we make it utter hell to get access to.

So there are my two cents. Feel free to tell me how much of an idiot redneck I am.

**Note: I live in Texas, and may possess a slight red-neck bias to guns and firearms of all sorts. If my opinions about firearms offend you, feel free to ignore them for the reason that I'm probably just some "dumb ol' redneck-country-bumpkin with no brains"**

That's not red neck bias, that's fairly realistic based on 100s of pages of research.

And based in research your too strict! Allow guns(all) over the counter with only a swift backround check. That has been proven to reduce the murder rate and robbery rates.

Also let kids (21) carry gubs on campus if they have a CCW permit, this too reduces the amount of school shootings. Not all mass shooting happen on gun free zones, and then none happen at NRA meetings. Coincidence?
"but that would be like wild west!" tell that to Utah, no shootings since gubs where allowed on campus.
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https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Stephen_Hawkins
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6/5/2012 8:35:52 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I agree with Calvin. Everyone should have guns, except people who would use guns to kill or main other people. Then problem solved. -_-
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Calvincambridge
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6/5/2012 8:36:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 10:13:40 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 6/4/2012 10:03:16 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/4/2012 9:40:09 PM, Contra wrote:
To be honest, I have been convinced 16k that gun control is bad. Guns should be legal, with some basic regulations in place (stored when not in use, or mandatory minimum training).

I am now pro-gun, to a degree, but not in schools.

When was anybody other than a hardcore redneck pro-guns in schools? Even as a libertarian, I have to say that that is one of the most stupidest ideas that I have ever heard.
You should come down to Texas some time.

I'll live there just give me the keys to your house.
Trying to figure out women is like trying to solve a Rubik's cube with missing pieces. While blind. And on fire. And being shot.-Agent_Orange
Dude. Shades
That is all.- Thaddeus Rivers
One thing that isn't a joke though is the fact that woman are computers.Some buttons you can press and it'l work fine, but if you push the wrong one you'll get the blue screen of death.
silly, thett. girls are only good for sex. being friends with a female is of no value.-darkkermit
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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6/5/2012 8:38:21 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/5/2012 8:35:52 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
I agree with Calvin. Everyone should have guns, except people who would use guns to kill or main other people. Then problem solved. -_-

Most people who have guns don't kill people, I haven't... Yet... My nex door neighbor hadn't, my other one hasn't, the one accross the streets hasn't. Most gun owners are law abiding citizens.

Most guns revoked are because of tax violations.

Want a book to read?
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Calvincambridge
Posts: 1,141
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6/5/2012 8:40:04 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/5/2012 8:38:21 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 6/5/2012 8:35:52 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
I agree with Calvin. Everyone should have guns, except people who would use guns to kill or main other people. Then problem solved. -_-

Most people who have guns don't kill people, I haven't... Yet... My nex door neighbor hadn't, my other one hasn't, the one accross the streets hasn't. Most gun owners are law abiding citizens.

Most guns revoked are because of tax violations.

Want a book to read?

I believe people should be able to own nukes if they want. And sorry I kinda already got something i'm reading right now.
Trying to figure out women is like trying to solve a Rubik's cube with missing pieces. While blind. And on fire. And being shot.-Agent_Orange
Dude. Shades
That is all.- Thaddeus Rivers
One thing that isn't a joke though is the fact that woman are computers.Some buttons you can press and it'l work fine, but if you push the wrong one you'll get the blue screen of death.
silly, thett. girls are only good for sex. being friends with a female is of no value.-darkkermit
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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6/5/2012 8:49:12 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/5/2012 8:40:04 AM, Calvincambridge wrote:
At 6/5/2012 8:38:21 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 6/5/2012 8:35:52 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
I agree with Calvin. Everyone should have guns, except people who would use guns to kill or main other people. Then problem solved. -_-

Most people who have guns don't kill people, I haven't... Yet... My nex door neighbor hadn't, my other one hasn't, the one accross the streets hasn't. Most gun owners are law abiding citizens.

Most guns revoked are because of tax violations.

Want a book to read?

I believe people should be able to own nukes if they want. And sorry I kinda already got something i'm reading right now.

I agree, cause no one has the supply to make them do legalization would have no effect.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Calvincambridge
Posts: 1,141
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6/5/2012 8:50:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/5/2012 8:49:12 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 6/5/2012 8:40:04 AM, Calvincambridge wrote:
At 6/5/2012 8:38:21 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 6/5/2012 8:35:52 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
I agree with Calvin. Everyone should have guns, except people who would use guns to kill or main other people. Then problem solved. -_-

Most people who have guns don't kill people, I haven't... Yet... My nex door neighbor hadn't, my other one hasn't, the one accross the streets hasn't. Most gun owners are law abiding citizens.

Most guns revoked are because of tax violations.

Want a book to read?

I believe people should be able to own nukes if they want. And sorry I kinda already got something i'm reading right now.

I agree, cause no one has the supply to make them do legalization would have no effect.

My brother has a sentry gun on his Ford.
Trying to figure out women is like trying to solve a Rubik's cube with missing pieces. While blind. And on fire. And being shot.-Agent_Orange
Dude. Shades
That is all.- Thaddeus Rivers
One thing that isn't a joke though is the fact that woman are computers.Some buttons you can press and it'l work fine, but if you push the wrong one you'll get the blue screen of death.
silly, thett. girls are only good for sex. being friends with a female is of no value.-darkkermit
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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6/5/2012 8:53:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/5/2012 8:50:26 AM, Calvincambridge wrote:
At 6/5/2012 8:49:12 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 6/5/2012 8:40:04 AM, Calvincambridge wrote:
At 6/5/2012 8:38:21 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 6/5/2012 8:35:52 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
I agree with Calvin. Everyone should have guns, except people who would use guns to kill or main other people. Then problem solved. -_-

Most people who have guns don't kill people, I haven't... Yet... My nex door neighbor hadn't, my other one hasn't, the one accross the streets hasn't. Most gun owners are law abiding citizens.

Most guns revoked are because of tax violations.

Want a book to read?

I believe people should be able to own nukes if they want. And sorry I kinda already got something i'm reading right now.

I agree, cause no one has the supply to make them do legalization would have no effect.


My brother has a sentry gun on his Ford.

Pics or it didn't happen
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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6/5/2012 8:55:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/5/2012 8:40:04 AM, Calvincambridge wrote:
At 6/5/2012 8:38:21 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 6/5/2012 8:35:52 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
I agree with Calvin. Everyone should have guns, except people who would use guns to kill or main other people. Then problem solved. -_-

Most people who have guns don't kill people, I haven't... Yet... My nex door neighbor hadn't, my other one hasn't, the one accross the streets hasn't. Most gun owners are law abiding citizens.

Most guns revoked are because of tax violations.

Want a book to read?

I believe people should be able to own nukes if they want. And sorry I kinda already got something i'm reading right now.

I don't. The right to bear arms is so that one can defend their life, liberty, and property; even from the government if necessary.

The government would not use nukes if a civil war broke out. It would be the worst decision they could make. It would cause more people to take up arms, including loyalists. It would cause devistating effects which they would have to deal with, if they won. It would give the rebels international sympathy.

Nukes should be isolated, so that very few people control them. They are not the same as a gun, artillery or explosives; their sole purpose is international war, and they would do little good to end a civil war, or defend one's liberty. The number of casualties from a nuke would be much higher, as it is a WMD meant to shock and aw.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Zaradi
Posts: 14,125
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6/5/2012 2:40:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/5/2012 8:50:26 AM, Calvincambridge wrote:
At 6/5/2012 8:49:12 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 6/5/2012 8:40:04 AM, Calvincambridge wrote:
At 6/5/2012 8:38:21 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 6/5/2012 8:35:52 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
I agree with Calvin. Everyone should have guns, except people who would use guns to kill or main other people. Then problem solved. -_-

Most people who have guns don't kill people, I haven't... Yet... My nex door neighbor hadn't, my other one hasn't, the one accross the streets hasn't. Most gun owners are law abiding citizens.

Most guns revoked are because of tax violations.

Want a book to read?

I believe people should be able to own nukes if they want. And sorry I kinda already got something i'm reading right now.

I agree, cause no one has the supply to make them do legalization would have no effect.


My brother has a sentry gun on his Ford.

Lol @ dat CoD slang.
You mean a mini-gun? xD
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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6/5/2012 4:45:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I believe gun regulation should focus not on restricting supply for consumers but by creating accountability which helps stop the diversion of guns for non-legal purposes.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, that would include cracking down on straw man gun purchases by holding gun consumers liable for loaning/giving their gun to someone else (if it is reported stolen before the relevant crime, there is no liability). This would be complemented by a new means of identifying guns that cannot be simply defaced like serial numbers. A national ballistics database would solve that problem without gun manufacturers having to change their products.
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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6/5/2012 4:59:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/5/2012 4:45:11 PM, Wnope wrote:
I believe gun regulation should focus not on restricting supply for consumers but by creating accountability which helps stop the diversion of guns for non-legal purposes.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, that would include cracking down on straw man gun purchases by holding gun consumers liable for loaning/giving their gun to someone else (if it is reported stolen before the relevant crime, there is no liability). This would be complemented by a new means of identifying guns that cannot be simply defaced like serial numbers. A national ballistics database would solve that problem without gun manufacturers having to change their products.

So you want higher penalties?

I could live with that
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross