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Republicans Losing The Culture War *

inferno
Posts: 10,655
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6/21/2012 11:06:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Here in America. Again, we all must realize that race is a major issue in this
2012 election. And that is because of the political narrative that is going on today.
It is inevitable at this point. The damage has been done. And you can feel the tension in the air, due to the media and the messages being forced into our
conscious minds daily. Obama will win over the Hispanics in the US once again.
The Republicans had a golden opportunity to create a legitimate solution to this
immigration problem now. And the blew it. What do you think.

http://www.cnn.com...
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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6/21/2012 11:14:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Obama got thiz in teh bag yo
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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6/21/2012 11:37:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Uh....Those pesky illegal aliens. Any President that does not deport them in the millions back to their own countries should be convicted of treason and be imprisoned for taking explicit action against the State.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
inferno
Posts: 10,655
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6/21/2012 11:40:12 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/21/2012 11:37:24 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
Uh....Those pesky illegal aliens. Any President that does not deport them in the millions back to their own countries should be convicted of treason and be imprisoned for taking explicit action against the State.

What do you mean pesky ? What's pesky is that your leaders have allowed things to be this way. The word illegal is just simply irrelevent to them.
Clueless are we not.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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6/21/2012 11:40:31 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
As well, the children of illegal aliens, even if born here, do not deserve citizenship and a stay in the country.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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6/21/2012 11:41:56 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/21/2012 11:40:12 AM, inferno wrote:
At 6/21/2012 11:37:24 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
Uh....Those pesky illegal aliens. Any President that does not deport them in the millions back to their own countries should be convicted of treason and be imprisoned for taking explicit action against the State.

What do you mean pesky ? What's pesky is that your leaders have allowed things to be this way. The word illegal is just simply irrelevent to them.
Clueless are we not.

My leaders? WTF are you talking about?

Illegal is objective. Somebody that does something illegal and threatens the security of the State ought to be charged for treason.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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6/21/2012 12:21:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Well one of the problems with Obama's main initiative is that he's really bypassing the congress legislation process in doing so.

I'm undecided about the issue. On the one hand, it creates incentives for illegal immigrants to cross the border. On the other hand, if the illegal immigrants have already increased their human capital through entering the country, it doesn't make sense for them to use our education system and not return the favor through increasing productivity and paying back the tax money later in life.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
inferno
Posts: 10,655
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6/21/2012 12:27:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/21/2012 12:21:58 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Well one of the problems with Obama's main initiative is that he's really bypassing the congress legislation process in doing so.

I'm undecided about the issue. On the one hand, it creates incentives for illegal immigrants to cross the border. On the other hand, if the illegal immigrants have already increased their human capital through entering the country, it doesn't make sense for them to use our education system and not return the favor through increasing productivity and paying back the tax money later in life.

Undecided. Im shocked. But you realize that this defies all other factors in this
political spectrum.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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6/21/2012 12:31:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/21/2012 12:27:42 PM, inferno wrote:
At 6/21/2012 12:21:58 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Well one of the problems with Obama's main initiative is that he's really bypassing the congress legislation process in doing so.

I'm undecided about the issue. On the one hand, it creates incentives for illegal immigrants to cross the border. On the other hand, if the illegal immigrants have already increased their human capital through entering the country, it doesn't make sense for them to use our education system and not return the favor through increasing productivity and paying back the tax money later in life.

Undecided. Im shocked. But you realize that this defies all other factors in this
political spectrum.

What were you expecting?

How does it "defy all other factor in this political spectrum"?

I'm not stuck in the false dicotmy between "democrat" or "republican". My political positions are based issue by issue, not on ideology.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
inferno
Posts: 10,655
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6/21/2012 12:40:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/21/2012 12:31:48 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 6/21/2012 12:27:42 PM, inferno wrote:
At 6/21/2012 12:21:58 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Well one of the problems with Obama's main initiative is that he's really bypassing the congress legislation process in doing so.

I'm undecided about the issue. On the one hand, it creates incentives for illegal immigrants to cross the border. On the other hand, if the illegal immigrants have already increased their human capital through entering the country, it doesn't make sense for them to use our education system and not return the favor through increasing productivity and paying back the tax money later in life.

Undecided. Im shocked. But you realize that this defies all other factors in this
political spectrum.

What were you expecting?

How does it "defy all other factor in this political spectrum"?

I'm not stuck in the false dicotmy between "democrat" or "republican". My political positions are based issue by issue, not on ideology.

Sure. Is this why you are so racially intolerant ?
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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6/21/2012 12:45:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm not stuck in the false dicotmy between "democrat" or "republican". My political positions are based issue by issue, not on ideology.:

The left/right paradigm is a farce and, as you stated, a false dichotomy. Anyone who is swayed by what "their party" does is a lemming who can't think for themselves.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
inferno
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6/21/2012 12:49:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/21/2012 12:45:54 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
I'm not stuck in the false dicotmy between "democrat" or "republican". My political positions are based issue by issue, not on ideology.:

The left/right paradigm is a farce and, as you stated, a false dichotomy. Anyone who is swayed by what "their party" does is a lemming who can't think for themselves.

The word "Libertarian" does not exclude you from that.
If anything, youre only a Republican knockoff.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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6/21/2012 6:04:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/21/2012 11:41:56 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/21/2012 11:40:12 AM, inferno wrote:
At 6/21/2012 11:37:24 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
Uh....Those pesky illegal aliens. Any President that does not deport them in the millions back to their own countries should be convicted of treason and be imprisoned for taking explicit action against the State.

What do you mean pesky ? What's pesky is that your leaders have allowed things to be this way. The word illegal is just simply irrelevent to them.
Clueless are we not.

My leaders? WTF are you talking about?

Illegal is objective. Somebody that does something illegal and threatens the security of the State ought to be charged for treason.

Ought is a pesky word isn't it.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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6/21/2012 6:06:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/21/2012 6:04:57 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 6/21/2012 11:41:56 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/21/2012 11:40:12 AM, inferno wrote:
At 6/21/2012 11:37:24 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
Uh....Those pesky illegal aliens. Any President that does not deport them in the millions back to their own countries should be convicted of treason and be imprisoned for taking explicit action against the State.

What do you mean pesky ? What's pesky is that your leaders have allowed things to be this way. The word illegal is just simply irrelevent to them.
Clueless are we not.

My leaders? WTF are you talking about?

Illegal is objective. Somebody that does something illegal and threatens the security of the State ought to be charged for treason.

Ought is a pesky word isn't it.

Not believing in objective morality=/=That I can't have my own set of morals.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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6/21/2012 6:06:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/21/2012 12:49:07 PM, inferno wrote:
At 6/21/2012 12:45:54 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
I'm not stuck in the false dicotmy between "democrat" or "republican". My political positions are based issue by issue, not on ideology.:

The left/right paradigm is a farce and, as you stated, a false dichotomy. Anyone who is swayed by what "their party" does is a lemming who can't think for themselves.

The word "Libertarian" does not exclude you from that.
If anything, youre only a Republican knockoff.

Cool story. And Democrats must be socialist knockoffs then? Because apparently no political philosophy can be original unto itself right? It has to be a cheap knock off of something else.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
inferno
Posts: 10,655
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6/21/2012 6:40:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/21/2012 6:06:31 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 6/21/2012 12:49:07 PM, inferno wrote:
At 6/21/2012 12:45:54 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
I'm not stuck in the false dicotmy between "democrat" or "republican". My political positions are based issue by issue, not on ideology.:

The left/right paradigm is a farce and, as you stated, a false dichotomy. Anyone who is swayed by what "their party" does is a lemming who can't think for themselves.

The word "Libertarian" does not exclude you from that.
If anything, youre only a Republican knockoff.

Cool story. And Democrats must be socialist knockoffs then? Because apparently no political philosophy can be original unto itself right? It has to be a cheap knock off of something else.

Next.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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6/21/2012 7:29:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/21/2012 6:40:45 PM, inferno wrote:
Dems are called Marxists, too.

Except for the belief in irreducible class conflict, economic forces as the determining factor in social development, anarchism, etc.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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6/21/2012 7:43:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/21/2012 11:37:24 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
Uh....Those pesky illegal aliens. Any President that does not deport them in the millions back to their own countries should be convicted of treason and be imprisoned for taking explicit action against the State.

True, illegal aliens depress the wages of the poorer Americans, which has a negative effect on those households, but it also makes America more competitive worldwide. Furthermore, the original Americans are found to be likely promoted with an influx of new (likely inexperienced) workers.

I am Pro-Immigration, as they strengthen our social safety net by contributing FICA taxes and bringing their skills to America to make America's labor force more dynamic and make the economy prosperous. And, America is a nation of immigrants and a melting pot of different cultures.

Inferno, your information is indeed correct, but the culture war is a Republican construct. It is how many low income whites vote against their economic self interest and instead vote identity (values, connection, authenticity and trust). These side issues make the GOP win elections are consequently not improve the economic well being of the low income whites.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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6/21/2012 7:52:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/21/2012 11:40:12 AM, inferno wrote:
At 6/21/2012 11:37:24 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
Uh....Those pesky illegal aliens. Any President that does not deport them in the millions back to their own countries should be convicted of treason and be imprisoned for taking explicit action against the State.

What do you mean pesky ? What's pesky is that your leaders have allowed things to be this way. The word illegal is just simply irrelevent to them.
Clueless are we not.

Illegal
adjective
contrary to or forbidden by law, especially criminal law
http://oxforddictionaries.com...

Alien
noun
a foreigner, especially one who is not a naturalized citizen of the country where they are living
http://oxforddictionaries.com...

Immigrant
noun
a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country.
http://oxforddictionaries.com...

An "illegal alien" is a foreigner who cam here in a manner contrary to the law.
An "illegal immigrant" is person who came to live here permanently in a manner contrary to the law.

there is nothing wrong with using the word illegal to describe them, because they are here illegally.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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6/21/2012 8:14:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/21/2012 11:06:07 AM, inferno wrote:
Here in America. Again, we all must realize that race is a major issue in this
2012 election. And that is because of the political narrative that is going on today.
It is inevitable at this point. The damage has been done. And you can feel the tension in the air, due to the media and the messages being forced into our
conscious minds daily. Obama will win over the Hispanics in the US once again.
The Republicans had a golden opportunity to create a legitimate solution to this
immigration problem now. And the blew it. What do you think.

http://www.cnn.com...

America has no culture other than a culture of entitlement. "American" culture has been deemed offensive and politically incorrect. If someone asked my to define American culture I would draw a blank. A sense of entitlement is the only thing that comes to mind. Anything else would just be offensive or racist to someone. A feeling of entitlement is pretty much universal in this country with a few exceptions such as my self. I'm not entitled to anything that I didn't work for not even social security.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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6/21/2012 8:38:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/21/2012 7:43:21 PM, Contra wrote:
At 6/21/2012 11:37:24 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
Uh....Those pesky illegal aliens. Any President that does not deport them in the millions back to their own countries should be convicted of treason and be imprisoned for taking explicit action against the State.

True, illegal aliens depress the wages of the poorer Americans, which has a negative effect on those households, but it also makes America more competitive worldwide.

This is absolutely meaningless. Trade isn't a zero sum game. Trade is cooperation, not competition. If wages are lower in other areas, then the US can focus on other industries that has a comparative advantage in.

Furthermore, the original Americans are found to be likely promoted with an influx of new (likely inexperienced) workers.

I've stated this before. You assume that this will cause citizens to be promoted, but it will just cause them to have lower wages. An influx of immigrants doesn't all of a sudden make them high skill labor.


I am Pro-Immigration, as they strengthen our social safety net by contributing FICA taxes and bringing their skills to America to make America's labor force more dynamic and make the economy prosperous.

The poorer ones drain it.

And, America is a nation of immigrants and a melting pot of different cultures.

So what? Also inability to have a unified culture is a bad thing. It just means that nobody is happy in the political process.

Inferno, your information is indeed correct, but the culture war is a Republican construct.

Rich. I'm quite certain that liberals and left-wings are the ones that hamper their ideology on class conflict.

It is how many low income whites vote against their economic self interest and instead vote identity (values, connection, authenticity and trust).
These side issues make the GOP win elections are consequently not improve the economic well being of the low income whites.

And the very wealthy individuals and upper class vote democrat. I've discussed this with you before, and I even had it on my signature but it is "ideas not self interest" that matter.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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6/21/2012 8:43:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/21/2012 8:38:16 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 6/21/2012 7:43:21 PM, Contra wrote:
At 6/21/2012 11:37:24 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
Uh....Those pesky illegal aliens. Any President that does not deport them in the millions back to their own countries should be convicted of treason and be imprisoned for taking explicit action against the State.

True, illegal aliens depress the wages of the poorer Americans, which has a negative effect on those households, but it also makes America more competitive worldwide.

This is absolutely meaningless. Trade isn't a zero sum game. Trade is cooperation, not competition. If wages are lower in other areas, then the US can focus on other industries that has a comparative advantage in.

Yes.

Furthermore, the original Americans are found to be likely promoted with an influx of new (likely inexperienced) workers.

I've stated this before. You assume that this will cause citizens to be promoted, but it will just cause them to have lower wages. An influx of immigrants doesn't all of a sudden make them high skill labor.

Some get promoted, others get depressed wages.


I am Pro-Immigration, as they strengthen our social safety net by contributing FICA taxes and bringing their skills to America to make America's labor force more dynamic and make the economy prosperous.

The poorer ones drain it.

They still contribute (many do) FICA taxes.

And, America is a nation of immigrants and a melting pot of different cultures.

So what? Also inability to have a unified culture is a bad thing. It just means that nobody is happy in the political process.


Inferno, your information is indeed correct, but the culture war is a Republican construct.

Rich. I'm quite certain that liberals and left-wings are the ones that hamper their ideology on class conflict.

It is how many low income whites vote against their economic self interest and instead vote identity (values, connection, authenticity and trust).
These side issues make the GOP win elections are consequently not improve the economic well being of the low income whites.

And the very wealthy individuals and upper class vote democrat. I've discussed this with you before, and I even had it on my signature but it is "ideas not self interest" that matter.

Ideas that have no end goal. For example, vote against liberal elitists, get the highest income inequality since the 1920s. The GOP does well on framing the debate, and many Progressives/ Democrats need to catch up. The GOP gets the debate centered on social issues, and thus enjoy the conservative populist advantage here. This is exactly what Rick Santorum did.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
darkkermit
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6/21/2012 8:51:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/21/2012 8:43:59 PM, Contra wrote:

And the very wealthy individuals and upper class vote democrat. I've discussed this with you before, and I even had it on my signature but it is "ideas not self interest" that matter.

Ideas that have no end goal. For example, vote against liberal elitists, get the highest income inequality since the 1920s. The GOP does well on framing the debate, and many Progressives/ Democrats need to catch up. The GOP gets the debate centered on social issues, and thus enjoy the conservative populist advantage here. This is exactly what Rick Santorum did.

It's fallacious reasoning to assume that it was the "conservative resurgence" that caused income inequality. Income inequality rose under Bill Clinton despite him being a liberal.

Furthermore, republicans rarely controlled congress:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com...

The conservative ideas definitely have goals. I don't believe in the ideas of the social conservatives, but doesn't mean that the goals are nonexistent.

Conservative economics is all about economic growth and consumer autonomy.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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6/24/2012 1:35:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/21/2012 11:06:07 AM, inferno wrote:
Here in America. Again, we all must realize that race is a major issue in this
2012 election. And that is because of the political narrative that is going on today...
The Republicans had a golden opportunity to create a legitimate solution to this
immigration problem now. And the blew it. What do you think.

George Bush proposed comprehensive immigration reform. Then-Senator Obama voted against it. President Obama had two years with control of both houses of Congress. He did not even propose a single piece of immigration reform in that entire period. He promised he would have the legislation on the floor of the Senate by the end of his first year in office. He did nothing. He never met with Republicans, never held hearing, never put out draft legislation -- absolutely zero.

There were five versions of the Dream Act put out by Harry Reid in quick succession, with a final demand by Reid that Senators pass it without reading it. It would have passed, but five Democrats voted against it. There is every indication that a focused version, such as the one written by Republican Senator Marco Rubio could have passed easily -- especially if Senators were allowed to read it.

I don't see any explanation other than that Democrats desperately want to keep the problem unsolved, so they can run forever with the lie that Republicans are opposed. Otherwise they would have solved it. Is there another explanation?
RoyLatham
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6/24/2012 1:43:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
For he record, "The Culture War" has almost nothing to do with immigration. Most Latinos are Catholics who celebrate Christmas, get married, have families, and honor most of the old American values.
MrBrooks
Posts: 831
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6/24/2012 3:04:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/21/2012 8:14:22 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 6/21/2012 11:06:07 AM, inferno wrote:
Here in America. Again, we all must realize that race is a major issue in this
2012 election. And that is because of the political narrative that is going on today.
It is inevitable at this point. The damage has been done. And you can feel the tension in the air, due to the media and the messages being forced into our
conscious minds daily. Obama will win over the Hispanics in the US once again.
The Republicans had a golden opportunity to create a legitimate solution to this
immigration problem now. And the blew it. What do you think.

http://www.cnn.com...

America has no culture other than a culture of entitlement. "American" culture has been deemed offensive and politically incorrect. If someone asked my to define American culture I would draw a blank. A sense of entitlement is the only thing that comes to mind. Anything else would just be offensive or racist to someone. A feeling of entitlement is pretty much universal in this country with a few exceptions such as my self. I'm not entitled to anything that I didn't work for not even social security.

Elaborate on America's culture being deemed offensive and politically incorrect.