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Obama's Pimp Hand

I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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8/20/2009 4:52:44 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Something I was looking forward to, Obama's Pimp Hand, isn't being shown as much as I'd like. He's given into Big Pharma. Some foreign affairs have gone well but other than that, there is no Pimp Hand. This is how Foreign Affairs should be going:

"Mexico, Why can't you be more like Canada?"
"Sorry Senor"
"Well sorry, just doesn't cut it"
*Commence @sswoop*

"China, why can't you be more like Taiwan?"
"We try our brest, Mr. Obama"
"Well, our best just isn't good enough"
*Commence Every Body was Kung-Fu fighting*
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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8/20/2009 5:08:04 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Being the President is a tricky job, and compromise is needed, especially when you have your filibuster proof majority splitting down the middle on an issue such as healthcare, where that majority is direly needed.

But, that being said, Obama should be more forceful. Whip that Democratic caucus into shape. If any members here tried to vote against the party when they're not allowed a free vote, you better believe there will be some @sswhoopin'. You'd get suspended, then expelled, then roasted over an open pit of fire (Conservatives only).

We'll see how much compromise Obama will need to get any legislation through. It is such a shame that the US parties have no discipline though; if there was, that healthcare bill would have been passed several months ago.
regebro
Posts: 1,152
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8/21/2009 8:34:54 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/20/2009 4:52:44 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Something I was looking forward to, Obama's Pimp Hand, isn't being shown as much as I'd like. He's given into Big Pharma. Some foreign affairs have gone well but other than that, there is no Pimp Hand. This is how Foreign Affairs should be going:

"Mexico, Why can't you be more like Canada?"
"Sorry Senor"
"Well sorry, just doesn't cut it"
*Commence @sswoop*

"China, why can't you be more like Taiwan?"
"We try our brest, Mr. Obama"
"Well, our best just isn't good enough"
*Commence Every Body was Kung-Fu fighting*

Well, asswhooping has been done a couple of times in US history. Lately, the results has not been encouraging. Like Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. I think Obama, reasonably, thinks there are better ways. ;)
So prove me wrong, then.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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8/25/2009 6:51:24 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/20/2009 5:08:04 AM, Volkov wrote:
Being the President is a tricky job, and compromise is needed, especially when you have your filibuster proof majority splitting down the middle on an issue such as healthcare, where that majority is direly needed.

But, that being said, Obama should be more forceful. Whip that Democratic caucus into shape. If any members here tried to vote against the party when they're not allowed a free vote, you better believe there will be some @sswhoopin'. You'd get suspended, then expelled, then roasted over an open pit of fire (Conservatives only).

Even if Obama had that kind of power (he doesn't, he doesn't run the party), the only thing he'd accomplish by threatening that is the destruction of his party after they call the bluff. "Party discipline" is a phenomenon resulting STRICTLY from systems of proportional representation that make parties the relevant legal entities in elections. In the US, individuals are elected, and any individual who got booted out of the party for voting as he was elected by his constituency to vote would receive a massive boost in votes next election. Parties might be needed to get into office, but once you are in office getting booted out of a party is a massive boon to the individual in question and a significant (massive if carried out as a consistent policy like you suggest) loss for the party. Either the Blue Dogs would be a third party, or Republicans, at that point, but either way Democrats lose and the Republican cause (and each Blue Dog officeholder) wins.

Of course, since the threat is not in fact a threat at all, it will never be made as one, and so unfortunately your bad idea will not be implemented :).
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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8/25/2009 6:55:02 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Obama and the Democrats are sucking it up right now. If they can't pass NHC or turn the US into a Democratic Socialism now, they will never do it. Yipppeeee.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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8/25/2009 8:36:52 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/25/2009 6:51:24 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
"Party discipline" is a phenomenon resulting STRICTLY from systems of proportional representation that make parties the relevant legal entities in elections.

I disagree with this statement only, as Canada does not have proportional representation.

Well, I disagree with the "bad idea" statement, as I don't think it is a bad idea, but everything else you said make sense. It is just a shame it is that way.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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8/25/2009 9:22:57 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/25/2009 8:36:52 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 8/25/2009 6:51:24 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
"Party discipline" is a phenomenon resulting STRICTLY from systems of proportional representation that make parties the relevant legal entities in elections.

I disagree with this statement only, as Canada does not have proportional representation.
What is the source of it's party discipline then? I'm curious. Just stupid politicians on the low end of the stick, or...?


Well, I disagree with the "bad idea" statement, as I don't think it is a bad idea, but everything else you said make sense. It is just a shame it is that way.
If everything else I said made sense, then it is a bad idea to kick seated officeholders out of the Democratic Party. Unless you were confused as to what I was saying the bad idea was (I'm neutral as to whether changing to a system that is conducive to party discipline is good or bad).
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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8/27/2009 11:14:08 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/25/2009 9:22:57 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
What is the source of it's party discipline then? I'm curious. Just stupid politicians on the low end of the stick, or...?

The difference between here and the American system is that if a caucus fails to stick together on certain votes, confidence votes especially, the entire government can fall. Forget not just getting legislation though; you would be forced to go into another election, which you can possibly lose. Parties enforce discipline to keep the government running, as well as to pass important legislation through sometimes; on most other votes than confidence votes, members are given a "free vote," so they can vote however they want without being kicked out of the caucus (though they may be alienated by their caucus mates, depending on the issue).

There is also just clueless MPs. This is especially true with the current government; these people are not allowed to speak to the media on their own, because the PMO (Prime Minister's Office) just knows they'll say something stupid.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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8/29/2009 10:12:58 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/27/2009 11:14:08 AM, Volkov wrote:
At 8/25/2009 9:22:57 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
What is the source of it's party discipline then? I'm curious. Just stupid politicians on the low end of the stick, or...?

The difference between here and the American system is that if a caucus fails to stick together on certain votes, confidence votes especially, the entire government can fall.
And? That's a problem from the party's end, not the officeholder's. Unless you are saying the officeholders are all ideologically committed to the viability of the government over and above all else, in which case the phenomenon you are describing is essentially a different concept from "party discipline."

Forget not just getting legislation though; you would be forced to go into another election, which you can possibly lose.
For standing by principles?
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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8/30/2009 4:13:34 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/29/2009 10:12:58 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
And? That's a problem from the party's end, not the officeholder's. Unless you are saying the officeholders are all ideologically committed to the viability of the government over and above all else, in which case the phenomenon you are describing is essentially a different concept from "party discipline."

Actually it is a problem for the officeholder, because if the party falls, then so does the officeholder; the Prime Minister is chosen from the party's ranks, usually being the party leader. Discipline is important to maintain, and the concept is no different; maintaining the viability of your government is the only way to make sure your government actually passes any legislation.

For standing by principles?

What is it with you and "principles"? Politicians should stand by their principles, sure, but they're naive if they don't realize that compromising and co-operating is the only way to advocate any notion of your principles. You need to be as flexible as possible without betraying everything you believe, because if you're just a rigid, stubborn ideologue, you will not get anything done.
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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8/30/2009 4:35:44 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
*confetti and streamers*

Higher drug prices = Kleptin's salary goes up
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