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Strategic Voting

MrBrooks
Posts: 831
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6/30/2012 9:50:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
So who will be voting strategically for Romney this election cycle? I'm on the fence on whether I should vote on principal (Johnson,) or strategically (Romney.)
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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6/30/2012 9:58:20 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I strongly say vote on principle.

Voting strategically I'm VERY against, just on principle, but it also is counter-intuitive to the very idea of voting itself.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
MrBrooks
Posts: 831
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6/30/2012 10:03:09 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 9:53:30 AM, darkkermit wrote:
you do realize your vote doesn't matter and has a small chance of effecting the election right?

Yeah, especially since I live in New York. New York always votes for the Democratic candidate. Bunch of brainwashed monkies. Still I like to consider that my vote does count, just in case it actually does one day.
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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6/30/2012 10:22:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
When people vote for their favourite candidate, and not on tactics, then their vote actually matters. Or better yet, vote for the local representative who is best and sod all else.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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6/30/2012 10:24:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 10:22:33 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
When people vote for their favourite candidate, and not on tactics, then their vote actually matters. Or better yet, vote for the local representative who is best and sod all else.

This, this, and thrice this.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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6/30/2012 10:28:42 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
What is with America and the idea that "I'm going to vote for the President" and not "I'm voting for my local rep."? What actually happens is that you get bugger all say on the country, and you get a worse country on the federal level...
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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6/30/2012 10:31:58 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 10:28:42 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
What is with America and the idea that "I'm going to vote for the President" and not "I'm voting for my local rep."? What actually happens is that you get bugger all say on the country, and you get a worse country on the federal level...

A lot of that depends on where in the country you are/who you ask. In Wisconsin, particularly in the recent days/time, we've been very politically active in local politics. Even though I'm an anarchist, I still urge people to vote for every possible election. I plan to do it, once I'm legally able.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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6/30/2012 10:39:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 10:03:09 AM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 6/30/2012 9:53:30 AM, darkkermit wrote:
you do realize your vote doesn't matter and has a small chance of effecting the election right?

Yeah, especially since I live in New York. New York always votes for the Democratic candidate. Bunch of brainwashed monkies. Still I like to consider that my vote does count, just in case it actually does one day.

New Yorkers are some of the most informed, educated, intelligent people I've encountered in the U.S.
MrBrooks
Posts: 831
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6/30/2012 10:42:10 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 10:39:27 AM, Ren wrote:
At 6/30/2012 10:03:09 AM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 6/30/2012 9:53:30 AM, darkkermit wrote:
you do realize your vote doesn't matter and has a small chance of effecting the election right?

Yeah, especially since I live in New York. New York always votes for the Democratic candidate. Bunch of brainwashed monkies. Still I like to consider that my vote does count, just in case it actually does one day.

New Yorkers are some of the most informed, educated, intelligent people I've encountered in the U.S.

So you've been to California too?
MrBrooks
Posts: 831
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6/30/2012 10:50:30 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'd also like to point out that New York is broke and has one of the most bloated welfare states in the country. New York City alone has more people on welfare than the entire population of Denver. Guess who pays for that welfare state? Upstate New Yorkers. Why?-because Upstate New York has a much smaller population and is under represented in the state senate. [1]

New York is a liberal cesspool, and its residents (especially western and upstate New Yorkers,) suffer. The only ones that benefit from this system are those on welfare and those in power, which explains why the state votes so overwhelmingly in favor of the Democratic Party.

[1]http://www.time.com...
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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6/30/2012 10:51:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 10:03:09 AM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 6/30/2012 9:53:30 AM, darkkermit wrote:
you do realize your vote doesn't matter and has a small chance of effecting the election right?

Yeah, especially since I live in New York. New York always votes for the Democratic candidate. Bunch of brainwashed monkies. Still I like to consider that my vote does count, just in case it actually does one day.

it never will. What they call a "close race" in a state is like a 1000+ vote margin. Add to that the fact that the electoral representatives can void your state's collective opinion, and vote for whoever they feel like. This "my vote counts" mentality is the first preponderant reason why people don't realize that the government isn't in their hands. The only way to change government is to get in government.

Also by the way, the only brainwashed monkey is the person that thinks his view of politics is superior to everyone else's. Our opinions are subjective and derived from different concerns and different necessities. We form a party system so that those values are solidified in the democratic process. No one's opinion is stupid or wrong, as that implies an objective test of what is right.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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6/30/2012 10:53:56 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 10:42:10 AM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 6/30/2012 10:39:27 AM, Ren wrote:
At 6/30/2012 10:03:09 AM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 6/30/2012 9:53:30 AM, darkkermit wrote:
you do realize your vote doesn't matter and has a small chance of effecting the election right?

Yeah, especially since I live in New York. New York always votes for the Democratic candidate. Bunch of brainwashed monkies. Still I like to consider that my vote does count, just in case it actually does one day.

New Yorkers are some of the most informed, educated, intelligent people I've encountered in the U.S.

So you've been to California too?

I've been all over...

Including California.

I quite like NoCal people. Similarly educated, but much nicer than those on the East Coast.
MrBrooks
Posts: 831
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6/30/2012 10:55:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 10:51:34 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/30/2012 10:03:09 AM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 6/30/2012 9:53:30 AM, darkkermit wrote:
you do realize your vote doesn't matter and has a small chance of effecting the election right?

Yeah, especially since I live in New York. New York always votes for the Democratic candidate. Bunch of brainwashed monkies. Still I like to consider that my vote does count, just in case it actually does one day.

it never will. What they call a "close race" in a state is like a 1000+ vote margin. Add to that the fact that the electoral representatives can void your state's collective opinion, and vote for whoever they feel like. This "my vote counts" mentality is the first preponderant reason why people don't realize that the government isn't in their hands. The only way to change government is to get in government.

Also by the way, the only brainwashed monkey is the person that thinks his view of politics is superior to everyone else's. Our opinions are subjective and derived from different concerns and different necessities. We form a party system so that those values are solidified in the democratic process. No one's opinion is stupid or wrong, as that implies an objective test of what is right.

I was only making light of the situation, you can climb off the high horse now.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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6/30/2012 10:56:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Whether you like it or not, a vote for Johnson is a vote wasted. He is not going to win.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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6/30/2012 10:56:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 10:55:33 AM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 6/30/2012 10:51:34 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/30/2012 10:03:09 AM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 6/30/2012 9:53:30 AM, darkkermit wrote:
you do realize your vote doesn't matter and has a small chance of effecting the election right?

Yeah, especially since I live in New York. New York always votes for the Democratic candidate. Bunch of brainwashed monkies. Still I like to consider that my vote does count, just in case it actually does one day.

it never will. What they call a "close race" in a state is like a 1000+ vote margin. Add to that the fact that the electoral representatives can void your state's collective opinion, and vote for whoever they feel like. This "my vote counts" mentality is the first preponderant reason why people don't realize that the government isn't in their hands. The only way to change government is to get in government.

Also by the way, the only brainwashed monkey is the person that thinks his view of politics is superior to everyone else's. Our opinions are subjective and derived from different concerns and different necessities. We form a party system so that those values are solidified in the democratic process. No one's opinion is stupid or wrong, as that implies an objective test of what is right.

I was only making light of the situation, you can climb off the high horse now.

didn't seem that way when you were insulting Democrats....
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
MrBrooks
Posts: 831
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6/30/2012 11:00:06 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 10:53:56 AM, Ren wrote:
At 6/30/2012 10:42:10 AM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 6/30/2012 10:39:27 AM, Ren wrote:
At 6/30/2012 10:03:09 AM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 6/30/2012 9:53:30 AM, darkkermit wrote:
you do realize your vote doesn't matter and has a small chance of effecting the election right?

Yeah, especially since I live in New York. New York always votes for the Democratic candidate. Bunch of brainwashed monkies. Still I like to consider that my vote does count, just in case it actually does one day.

New Yorkers are some of the most informed, educated, intelligent people I've encountered in the U.S.

So you've been to California too?

I've been all over...

Including California.

I quite like NoCal people. Similarly educated, but much nicer than those on the East Coast.

I've been all over as well and I havn't noticed any difference in intelligence between the states. I've only noticed changes in opinion. The education systems in California and New York have a heavy liberal bias, and there are a lot of uneducated residents on welfare in New York. These two things combined entrench a pro-statist attitude in New York.

The reason why I made the joke about them being brainwashed is because it's very hard to get the average statist to admit he or she is a statist.
MrBrooks
Posts: 831
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6/30/2012 11:01:46 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
didn't seem that way when you were insulting Democrats....

That wasn't directed at Democrats, it was directed toward the people that vote for Democrats w/o actually understanding what the Democratic Party stands for.
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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6/30/2012 11:02:22 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 10:56:48 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
Whether you like it or not, a vote for Johnson is a vote wasted. He is not going to win.

I never understand the point of only voting for someone who can win. Does it give your ego a boost to say "I voted for the guy who could have one?" I hate to sound like that, but honestly--when people vote strategically, they undermine the whole point of voting.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
MrBrooks
Posts: 831
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6/30/2012 11:05:43 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 11:02:22 AM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 6/30/2012 10:56:48 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
Whether you like it or not, a vote for Johnson is a vote wasted. He is not going to win.

I never understand the point of only voting for someone who can win. Does it give your ego a boost to say "I voted for the guy who could have one?" I hate to sound like that, but honestly--when people vote strategically, they undermine the whole point of voting.

It's the way the system is designed unfortunately. A vote for Johnson isn't really a wasted vote, because if he got even 10% of the popular vote it would be a huge victory for the Libertarian Party. Then next election the party would have more viability and perhaps we'd even see a Libertarian candidate at the presidential debates.

Honestly I think if Johnson can get on the debate stage with Obama and Romney he'll get a lot of votes. The problem is getting him to that point. I believe he needs to poll at 10% to get an invite to the debate.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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6/30/2012 11:08:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 11:02:22 AM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 6/30/2012 10:56:48 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
Whether you like it or not, a vote for Johnson is a vote wasted. He is not going to win.

I never understand the point of only voting for someone who can win. Does it give your ego a boost to say "I voted for the guy who could have one?" I hate to sound like that, but honestly--when people vote strategically, they undermine the whole point of voting.

I'd much rather help throw out a defunct President, rather than encourage his existence.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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6/30/2012 11:09:20 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 9:50:14 AM, MrBrooks wrote:
So who will be voting strategically for Romney this election cycle? I'm on the fence on whether I should vote on principal (Johnson,) or strategically (Romney.)

If the polls show that your state is close (51-49) then do strategically, otherwise, go with principle.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
MrBrooks
Posts: 831
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6/30/2012 11:10:55 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 11:09:20 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 6/30/2012 9:50:14 AM, MrBrooks wrote:
So who will be voting strategically for Romney this election cycle? I'm on the fence on whether I should vote on principal (Johnson,) or strategically (Romney.)

If the polls show that your state is close (51-49) then do strategically, otherwise, go with principle.

Good advice. Principal it is.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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6/30/2012 11:11:23 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 10:53:56 AM, Ren wrote:
At 6/30/2012 10:42:10 AM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 6/30/2012 10:39:27 AM, Ren wrote:
At 6/30/2012 10:03:09 AM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 6/30/2012 9:53:30 AM, darkkermit wrote:
you do realize your vote doesn't matter and has a small chance of effecting the election right?

Yeah, especially since I live in New York. New York always votes for the Democratic candidate. Bunch of brainwashed monkies. Still I like to consider that my vote does count, just in case it actually does one day.

New Yorkers are some of the most informed, educated, intelligent people I've encountered in the U.S.

So you've been to California too?

I've been all over...

Including California.

I quite like NoCal people. Similarly educated, but much nicer than those on the East Coast.

If you like NoCal, you'll really like the northern NoCal people, or more commonly referred to as Oregonians.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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6/30/2012 11:17:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 11:02:22 AM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 6/30/2012 10:56:48 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
Whether you like it or not, a vote for Johnson is a vote wasted. He is not going to win.

I never understand the point of only voting for someone who can win. Does it give your ego a boost to say "I voted for the guy who could have one?" I hate to sound like that, but honestly--when people vote strategically, they undermine the whole point of voting.

that's precisely the point. If the system were based on rational voting, a lot less people would vote. Instead people vote for emotive reasons, not rational reasons.

You can't really say it "undermines the point of voting" because there is no real "point" of voting. It just is. There's no "should".
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OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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6/30/2012 1:43:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 10:39:27 AM, Ren wrote:
At 6/30/2012 10:03:09 AM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 6/30/2012 9:53:30 AM, darkkermit wrote:
you do realize your vote doesn't matter and has a small chance of effecting the election right?

Yeah, especially since I live in New York. New York always votes for the Democratic candidate. Bunch of brainwashed monkies. Still I like to consider that my vote does count, just in case it actually does one day.

New Yorkers are some of the most informed, educated, intelligent people I've encountered in the U.S.

Correction: You agreed with them.
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Ren
Posts: 7,102
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6/30/2012 8:06:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 1:43:08 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 6/30/2012 10:39:27 AM, Ren wrote:
At 6/30/2012 10:03:09 AM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 6/30/2012 9:53:30 AM, darkkermit wrote:
you do realize your vote doesn't matter and has a small chance of effecting the election right?

Yeah, especially since I live in New York. New York always votes for the Democratic candidate. Bunch of brainwashed monkies. Still I like to consider that my vote does count, just in case it actually does one day.

New Yorkers are some of the most informed, educated, intelligent people I've encountered in the U.S.

Correction: You agreed with them.

Eww. That's a negative. I'm not even a liberal, fool.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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6/30/2012 8:08:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 11:11:23 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 6/30/2012 10:53:56 AM, Ren wrote:
At 6/30/2012 10:42:10 AM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 6/30/2012 10:39:27 AM, Ren wrote:
At 6/30/2012 10:03:09 AM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 6/30/2012 9:53:30 AM, darkkermit wrote:
you do realize your vote doesn't matter and has a small chance of effecting the election right?

Yeah, especially since I live in New York. New York always votes for the Democratic candidate. Bunch of brainwashed monkies. Still I like to consider that my vote does count, just in case it actually does one day.

New Yorkers are some of the most informed, educated, intelligent people I've encountered in the U.S.

So you've been to California too?

I've been all over...

Including California.

I quite like NoCal people. Similarly educated, but much nicer than those on the East Coast.

If you like NoCal, you'll really like the northern NoCal people, or more commonly referred to as Oregonians.

Word? Hehe, I wouldn't mind finding out, but I've never been to Oregon. ^_^

Really, the whole left side of the United States seems pretty dope.
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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7/2/2012 2:27:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 10:50:30 AM, MrBrooks wrote:
I'd also like to point out that New York is broke and has one of the most bloated welfare states in the country. New York City alone has more people on welfare than the entire population of Denver. Guess who pays for that welfare state? Upstate New Yorkers. Why?-because Upstate New York has a much smaller population and is under represented in the state senate. [1]

New York is a liberal cesspool, and its residents (especially western and upstate New Yorkers,) suffer. The only ones that benefit from this system are those on welfare and those in power, which explains why the state votes so overwhelmingly in favor of the Democratic Party.

[1]http://www.time.com...

What a stupid statement. Denver has a total population of just over 600K. NYC population is over 8 million. 17% of NYC reports that their net worth is over $100K. That amounts to 1,389,772 people (more then double the pop of Denver)

BTW voter turnout is significantly lower among welfare recipients. A study in Minnesota showed that voter turnout in 1996 among non welfare recipients was 33.39% compared to 17.8 among welfare recipients. In 2000 it was 47.36% vs. 28.95% again in favor of non recipients. The reasons for this are common sense to anyone who lives in areas of high welfare. So no, liberals do not dominate NY because all the welfare bums are voting for more handouts.