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Thatcher owns the socialists

thett3
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6/30/2012 12:18:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Thanks to DN for showing me this video
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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6/30/2012 1:05:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
That's much better
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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6/30/2012 1:07:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 1:05:30 PM, 000ike wrote:
That's much better

Meh...I prefer not to listen to people that are responsible for the development and founding of the Nanny State.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Lordknukle
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6/30/2012 1:07:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
And policies that prolonged a depression by 7-8 more years.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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6/30/2012 1:09:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 1:07:26 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
And policies that prolonged a depression by 7-8 more years.

And played a major part in the Soviets getting as powerful as they did.
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MrBrooks
Posts: 831
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6/30/2012 1:10:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 1:09:46 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:07:26 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
And policies that prolonged a depression by 7-8 more years.

And played a major part in the Soviets getting as powerful as they did.

I love how FDR is treated as a prophet in liberal circles, and I love the bias toward him in public education.
thett3
Posts: 14,371
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6/30/2012 1:13:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 1:10:43 PM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:09:46 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:07:26 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
And policies that prolonged a depression by 7-8 more years.

And played a major part in the Soviets getting as powerful as they did.

I love how FDR is treated as a prophet in liberal circles, and I love the bias toward him in public education.

This.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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6/30/2012 1:26:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 1:05:30 PM, 000ike wrote:
That's much better

Lulz.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
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Get caught in ticking traps
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To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

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000ike
Posts: 11,196
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6/30/2012 1:37:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 1:10:43 PM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:09:46 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:07:26 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
And policies that prolonged a depression by 7-8 more years.

And played a major part in the Soviets getting as powerful as they did.

I love how FDR is treated as a prophet in liberal circles, and I love the bias toward him in public education.

The man saw us through the depression, introduced this country to aid for the poor, took government out of the hands of the greedy and reckless, gave power to the worker (who, under Laissez Faire was treated like garbage by the business giants and employers)... and he put down TWO dangerous imperial countries ... all from a bloody wheelchair. He deserves to be considered the best president in history.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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6/30/2012 1:39:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 1:37:06 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:10:43 PM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:09:46 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:07:26 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
And policies that prolonged a depression by 7-8 more years.

And played a major part in the Soviets getting as powerful as they did.

I love how FDR is treated as a prophet in liberal circles, and I love the bias toward him in public education.

The man saw us through the depression, introduced this country to aid for the poor, took government out of the hands of the greedy and reckless, gave power to the worker (who, under Laissez Faire was treated like garbage by the business giants and employers)... and he put down TWO dangerous imperial countries ... all from a bloody wheelchair. He deserves to be considered the best president in history.

He gave good speeches, had an encouraging voice, and WWII was won by the generals....not the president.

The first bit is just hilarious IMO.
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Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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6/30/2012 2:12:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
You guys should be THANKFUL that FDR was elected. His policies did nothing but propagate capitalism; if it weren't for him, there probably would have been a socialist revolution.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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6/30/2012 2:17:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 2:12:41 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
You guys should be THANKFUL that FDR was elected. His policies did nothing but propagate capitalism; if it weren't for him, there probably would have been a socialist revolution.

You have a point. Whenever nations are in economic turmoil they lean to the left extreme left. FDR even had Townshend, Coughlin, and Long criticizing him for not going farther with his programs. Then you have the war ravaged European countries after WWII that would have turned Communist if it wasn't for the Marshall Plan.

It seems like Capitalism is the ultimate product of human greed...and when the bourgeoisie lose their money, they come back asking for help.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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6/30/2012 2:26:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 1:37:06 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:10:43 PM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:09:46 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:07:26 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
And policies that prolonged a depression by 7-8 more years.

And played a major part in the Soviets getting as powerful as they did.

I love how FDR is treated as a prophet in liberal circles, and I love the bias toward him in public education.

The man saw us through the depression, introduced this country to aid for the poor, took government out of the hands of the greedy and reckless, gave power to the worker (who, under Laissez Faire was treated like garbage by the business giants and employers)... and he put down TWO dangerous imperial countries ... all from a bloody wheelchair. He deserves to be considered the best president in history.

Ahem. Laissez faire has never existed.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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6/30/2012 2:27:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 2:26:16 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
Ahem. Laissez faire has never existed.

That's not true! I've seen him! He exists!
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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6/30/2012 2:28:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 2:26:16 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:37:06 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:10:43 PM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:09:46 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:07:26 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
And policies that prolonged a depression by 7-8 more years.

And played a major part in the Soviets getting as powerful as they did.

I love how FDR is treated as a prophet in liberal circles, and I love the bias toward him in public education.

The man saw us through the depression, introduced this country to aid for the poor, took government out of the hands of the greedy and reckless, gave power to the worker (who, under Laissez Faire was treated like garbage by the business giants and employers)... and he put down TWO dangerous imperial countries ... all from a bloody wheelchair. He deserves to be considered the best president in history.

Ahem. Laissez faire has never existed.

What's your argument against the Gilded Age? The government was pretty much nothing...
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
OberHerr
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6/30/2012 2:29:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 2:27:07 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 6/30/2012 2:26:16 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
Ahem. Laissez faire has never existed.

That's not true! I've seen him! He exists!

SHHHHH!

You weren't suppose to talk about that!
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Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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6/30/2012 2:30:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 1:37:06 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:10:43 PM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:09:46 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:07:26 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
And policies that prolonged a depression by 7-8 more years.

And played a major part in the Soviets getting as powerful as they did.

I love how FDR is treated as a prophet in liberal circles, and I love the bias toward him in public education.

The man saw us through the depression,

By being the President and simultaneously prolonging the depression by almost a decade.

introduced this country to aid for the poor,

The country functioned just fine without these incentive less bureaucracies.

took government out of the hands of the greedy and reckless, gave power to the worker (who, under Laissez Faire was treated like garbage by the business giants and employers)...

Lol. You do know what Laissez-Faire is? It is a total lack of government regulation. It has never existed.

Also, I like your hyperboles.

and he put down TWO dangerous imperial countries ... all from a bloody wheelchair. He deserves to be considered the best president in history.

He had virtually nothing to do with the collapse of Nazi Germany. That was all because of the Russians.

I'll give him recognition that he defeated Japan, but that honestly wasn't too hard.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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6/30/2012 2:32:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 2:28:44 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/30/2012 2:26:16 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:37:06 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:10:43 PM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:09:46 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:07:26 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
And policies that prolonged a depression by 7-8 more years.

And played a major part in the Soviets getting as powerful as they did.

I love how FDR is treated as a prophet in liberal circles, and I love the bias toward him in public education.

The man saw us through the depression, introduced this country to aid for the poor, took government out of the hands of the greedy and reckless, gave power to the worker (who, under Laissez Faire was treated like garbage by the business giants and employers)... and he put down TWO dangerous imperial countries ... all from a bloody wheelchair. He deserves to be considered the best president in history.

Ahem. Laissez faire has never existed.

What's your argument against the Gilded Age? The government was pretty much nothing...

What do you mean, what's my argument against a entire Age? I don't understand your point. The fact remains that government has always had a hand in the economy--previously in favor of industrialists and corporations, and still in favor of the corporations in many respects.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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6/30/2012 2:37:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 2:32:07 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:

What do you mean, what's my argument against a entire Age? I don't understand your point. The fact remains that government has always had a hand in the economy--previously in favor of industrialists and corporations, and still in favor of the corporations in many respects.

The government barely did anything during the guilded age. If you don't want me to call it Laissez faire, fine,...but that really does not address my point. The poor and the worker still suffered due to unrestrained corporate greed.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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6/30/2012 2:38:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 2:37:05 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/30/2012 2:32:07 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:

What do you mean, what's my argument against a entire Age? I don't understand your point. The fact remains that government has always had a hand in the economy--previously in favor of industrialists and corporations, and still in favor of the corporations in many respects.

The government barely did anything during the guilded age. If you don't want me to call it Laissez faire, fine,...but that really does not address my point. The poor and the worker still suffered due to unrestrained corporate greed.

Men pursuing their self-interests ultimately benefit society as a whole.

Since all work is voluntary, this so called "suffering" was accepted by the worker as a pay off for his work.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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6/30/2012 2:39:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 2:30:54 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:37:06 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:10:43 PM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:09:46 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:07:26 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
And policies that prolonged a depression by 7-8 more years.

And played a major part in the Soviets getting as powerful as they did.

I love how FDR is treated as a prophet in liberal circles, and I love the bias toward him in public education.

The man saw us through the depression,

By being the President and simultaneously prolonging the depression by almost a decade.

introduced this country to aid for the poor,

The country functioned just fine without these incentive less bureaucracies.

took government out of the hands of the greedy and reckless, gave power to the worker (who, under Laissez Faire was treated like garbage by the business giants and employers)...

Lol. You do know what Laissez-Faire is? It is a total lack of government regulation. It has never existed.

Also, I like your hyperboles.

and he put down TWO dangerous imperial countries ... all from a bloody wheelchair. He deserves to be considered the best president in history.

He had virtually nothing to do with the collapse of Nazi Germany. That was all because of the Russians.

I'll give him recognition that he defeated Japan, but that honestly wasn't too hard.

lmao. It's funny how easily some random person on the internet can belittle the pivotal work President at the 2nd most dangerous period of the 20th century.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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6/30/2012 2:42:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 2:38:46 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/30/2012 2:37:05 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/30/2012 2:32:07 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:

What do you mean, what's my argument against a entire Age? I don't understand your point. The fact remains that government has always had a hand in the economy--previously in favor of industrialists and corporations, and still in favor of the corporations in many respects.

The government barely did anything during the guilded age. If you don't want me to call it Laissez faire, fine,...but that really does not address my point. The poor and the worker still suffered due to unrestrained corporate greed.

Men pursuing their self-interests ultimately benefit society as a whole.

Since all work is voluntary, this so called "suffering" was accepted by the worker as a pay off for his work.

Monopolies discouraged the development of new business and put prices in the hands of single corporations rather than the free market. Working conditions were inhumane, hours were long, and wages were slashed. The Pullman Company for instance forced its workers to rent Pullman Company houses among other things. They then raised the rent and lowered their wages. If only you could be in that time,...you really wouldn't be talking right now.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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6/30/2012 2:44:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 1:37:06 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:10:43 PM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:09:46 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:07:26 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
And policies that prolonged a depression by 7-8 more years.

And played a major part in the Soviets getting as powerful as they did.

I love how FDR is treated as a prophet in liberal circles, and I love the bias toward him in public education.

The man saw us through the depression,

That would mean something if his policies actually helped. They didn't.

introduced this country to aid for the poor,

Because nobody cared for the poor before government stepped in, right? Right?

http://en.wikipedia.org...

...

took government out of the hands of the greedy and reckless, gave power to the worker (who, under Laissez Faire was treated like garbage by the business giants and employers)...

He regulated how much wheat a farmer could grow on his own farm for his own consumption. How much more powerless can you be?

and he put down TWO dangerous imperial countries ... all from a bloody wheelchair.

And how much involvement did he actually put forth in either war effort?

He deserves to be considered the best president in history.

Your standards are strange, my friend.
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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6/30/2012 2:48:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 2:39:09 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/30/2012 2:30:54 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:37:06 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:10:43 PM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:09:46 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:07:26 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
And policies that prolonged a depression by 7-8 more years.

And played a major part in the Soviets getting as powerful as they did.

I love how FDR is treated as a prophet in liberal circles, and I love the bias toward him in public education.

The man saw us through the depression,

By being the President and simultaneously prolonging the depression by almost a decade.

introduced this country to aid for the poor,

The country functioned just fine without these incentive less bureaucracies.

took government out of the hands of the greedy and reckless, gave power to the worker (who, under Laissez Faire was treated like garbage by the business giants and employers)...

Lol. You do know what Laissez-Faire is? It is a total lack of government regulation. It has never existed.

Also, I like your hyperboles.

and he put down TWO dangerous imperial countries ... all from a bloody wheelchair. He deserves to be considered the best president in history.

He had virtually nothing to do with the collapse of Nazi Germany. That was all because of the Russians.

I'll give him recognition that he defeated Japan, but that honestly wasn't too hard.

lmao. It's funny how easily some random person on the internet can belittle the pivotal work President at the 2nd most dangerous period of the 20th century.

It's also funny how you can't refute anything he says, and are forced to try and belittle him, and out him down as some random person on the Internet in an effort o make his point somehow invalid.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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6/30/2012 2:53:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 1:07:26 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
And policies that prolonged a depression by 7-8 more years.

Right, he controlled the weather that devastated the farm lands which kept the economy collapsed. No wait, that was private industry which decided years prior that they were not going to bother rotating the land which would have prevented much of the damage of the dust bowl which kept the economy down.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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6/30/2012 2:54:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 2:48:41 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 6/30/2012 2:39:09 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/30/2012 2:30:54 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:37:06 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:10:43 PM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:09:46 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:07:26 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
And policies that prolonged a depression by 7-8 more years.

And played a major part in the Soviets getting as powerful as they did.

I love how FDR is treated as a prophet in liberal circles, and I love the bias toward him in public education.

The man saw us through the depression,

By being the President and simultaneously prolonging the depression by almost a decade.

introduced this country to aid for the poor,

The country functioned just fine without these incentive less bureaucracies.

took government out of the hands of the greedy and reckless, gave power to the worker (who, under Laissez Faire was treated like garbage by the business giants and employers)...

Lol. You do know what Laissez-Faire is? It is a total lack of government regulation. It has never existed.

Also, I like your hyperboles.

and he put down TWO dangerous imperial countries ... all from a bloody wheelchair. He deserves to be considered the best president in history.

He had virtually nothing to do with the collapse of Nazi Germany. That was all because of the Russians.

I'll give him recognition that he defeated Japan, but that honestly wasn't too hard.

lmao. It's funny how easily some random person on the internet can belittle the pivotal work President at the 2nd most dangerous period of the 20th century.

It's also funny how you can't refute anything he says, and are forced to try and belittle him, and out him down as some random person on the Internet in an effort o make his point somehow invalid.

all the president really has to do is listen to the joint chief of staffs and sign the executive orders. It's not as If FDR had to have advanced understanding of war tactics and was the mastermind behind all these elaborate plans during the war.
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Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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6/30/2012 2:55:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 2:38:46 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/30/2012 2:37:05 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/30/2012 2:32:07 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:

What do you mean, what's my argument against a entire Age? I don't understand your point. The fact remains that government has always had a hand in the economy--previously in favor of industrialists and corporations, and still in favor of the corporations in many respects.

The government barely did anything during the guilded age. If you don't want me to call it Laissez faire, fine,...but that really does not address my point. The poor and the worker still suffered due to unrestrained corporate greed.

Men pursuing their self-interests ultimately benefit society as a whole.

Since all work is voluntary, this so called "suffering" was accepted by the worker as a pay off for his work.

Right, and if your options are...

1) be treated like a slave and piece of property,
or
2) Starve to death

Then you should be happy to be a slave, since you "voluntarily" choose it.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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6/30/2012 2:55:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 2:53:26 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:07:26 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
And policies that prolonged a depression by 7-8 more years.

Right, he controlled the weather that devastated the farm lands which kept the economy collapsed. No wait, that was private industry which decided years prior that they were not going to bother rotating the land which would have prevented much of the damage of the dust bowl which kept the economy down.

Nah, he only imposed severe price controls on virtually all industries, including the farming industry, set about intense regulation, and discouraged free trade.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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6/30/2012 2:56:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 2:55:32 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 6/30/2012 2:38:46 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/30/2012 2:37:05 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/30/2012 2:32:07 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:

What do you mean, what's my argument against a entire Age? I don't understand your point. The fact remains that government has always had a hand in the economy--previously in favor of industrialists and corporations, and still in favor of the corporations in many respects.

The government barely did anything during the guilded age. If you don't want me to call it Laissez faire, fine,...but that really does not address my point. The poor and the worker still suffered due to unrestrained corporate greed.

Men pursuing their self-interests ultimately benefit society as a whole.

Since all work is voluntary, this so called "suffering" was accepted by the worker as a pay off for his work.

Right, and if your options are...

1) be treated like a slave and piece of property,
or
2) Starve to death

Then you should be happy to be a slave, since you "voluntarily" choose it.

False dichotomy.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."