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000ike
Posts: 11,196
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7/1/2012 9:44:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Would we be any more scientifically advanced if there were no religions?
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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7/1/2012 9:49:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
No, because before modern society, the main incentive to be literate was for people to be able to read the bible. The church has a lot to do with the education system and still do today (private schools are often run by the church and are superior in education then public run schools) during the medieval times.
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000ike
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7/1/2012 9:50:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I could have sworn I put this in the religious section
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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7/2/2012 12:15:37 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
With all the evil done in the name of religion, religion it's-self is not inherently evil. It is the people who twist the message of religion to do evil who are the issue. If religion was not there, some other excuse would be used, possibly one which would have done more harm.

The fact remains that religion has helped allot of people. Some people really do need religion. That is not to say everyone should be religious, but rather for some people it is beneficial. My father was a dead beat dad, who blamed the world for all his problems. After he turned to religion his life turned around; he stopped blaming everyone for his problems, he quite doing drugs, and he reconnected with me and my siblings.
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thett3
Posts: 14,372
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7/3/2012 1:37:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/1/2012 9:44:03 PM, 000ike wrote:
Would we be any more scientifically advanced if there were no religions?
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Ren
Posts: 7,102
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7/3/2012 1:52:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/1/2012 9:44:03 PM, 000ike wrote:
Would we be any more scientifically advanced if there were no religions?

Not every country is as religious as the United States -- and, in fact, not every country is religious at all.

I'm not sure how religion could possibly hinder the progress of individual science that may or may not subscribe to religion.

It's a funny thought, though.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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7/3/2012 1:53:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/3/2012 1:52:21 PM, Ren wrote:
At 7/1/2012 9:44:03 PM, 000ike wrote:

I'm not sure how religion could possibly hinder the progress of individual scientists that may or may not subscribe to religion.

It's a funny thought, though.

Fixed.
twocupcakes
Posts: 2,750
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7/3/2012 6:26:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Religion often hinders scientific thought. Some people reject evolution based on religion. Others reject the origin of earth based on religion. Religion is often used as an excuse for not understanding science. I can see how religion could hinder Scientific thought.
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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7/3/2012 7:10:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/3/2012 6:26:00 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Religion often hinders scientific thought. Some people reject evolution based on religion. Others reject the origin of earth based on religion. Religion is often used as an excuse for not understanding science. I can see how religion could hinder Scientific thought.

The question the OP poses is not whether or not religious people have hindered science. Hell every group of people, even scientists, have hindered scientific thought. The OP poses that do religions, as an idealogy, hinder scientific thought. While some sure can, (Scientologists don't believe in mental illnesses, for example) many religions do not. In fact, many religions were vital to instituting colleges and propagating intellectual thought.
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twocupcakes
Posts: 2,750
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7/3/2012 7:26:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/3/2012 7:10:41 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 7/3/2012 6:26:00 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Religion often hinders scientific thought. Some people reject evolution based on religion. Others reject the origin of earth based on religion. Religion is often used as an excuse for not understanding science. I can see how religion could hinder Scientific thought.

The question the OP poses is not whether or not religious people have hindered science. Hell every group of people, even scientists, have hindered scientific thought. The OP poses that do religions, as an idealogy, hinder scientific thought. While some sure can, (Scientologists don't believe in mental illnesses, for example) many religions do not. In fact, many religions were vital to instituting colleges and propagating intellectual thought.

Religion has done more harm then Good to Science. Many common religions hinder scientific thought. It is bad for science when people believe a set of ideas from an old magic book trumps evolution and the origin of the earth. I agree it depends on the religion. From what I know, Buddhism would not really hinder science. However, Christianity/Islam do. Religion causes people to think they "know" the answers without scientific discovery. Galileo was imprisoned by the Catholic Church for teaching science that the Church disagreed with. However, Galileo was correct. He was not forgiven until 1969.
http://en.wikipedia.org...
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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7/3/2012 7:51:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/3/2012 7:26:54 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 7/3/2012 7:10:41 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 7/3/2012 6:26:00 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Religion often hinders scientific thought. Some people reject evolution based on religion. Others reject the origin of earth based on religion. Religion is often used as an excuse for not understanding science. I can see how religion could hinder Scientific thought.

The question the OP poses is not whether or not religious people have hindered science. Hell every group of people, even scientists, have hindered scientific thought. The OP poses that do religions, as an idealogy, hinder scientific thought. While some sure can, (Scientologists don't believe in mental illnesses, for example) many religions do not. In fact, many religions were vital to instituting colleges and propagating intellectual thought.

Religion has done more harm then Good to Science. Many common religions :hinder scientific thought. It is bad for science when people believe a set of ideas :from an old magic book trumps evolution and the origin of the earth.

Once again you are just wrong. I can necessarily speak for every denomination, but most Christians I know either believe in evolution or don't know enough about it to have an opinion either way.

Sacred texts convey why and what caused creation. Most never intended to reveal the mechanisms from which creation occurred. It is irrelevant to the goal of most religions anyways

I agree it depends on the religion. From what I know, Buddhism would not really :hinder science. However, Christianity/Islam do. Religion causes people to :think they "know" the answers without scientific discovery.

At the risk of sounding rude, I am going to answer that the bolded statement is complete bullsh!t. Religions only claim to know the ultimate cause of the how the world was created, not the mechanisms. Your argument fails because many scientists were and are practicing Christians. Many Christian organizations have established reputable centers of science and thought. Until you can prove a direct causal relationship between religion and the lack of scientific discovery, then you argument fails.

Galileo was imprisoned by the Catholic Church for teaching science that the Church :disagreed with. However, Galileo was correct. He was not forgiven until 1969.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Galileo was not imprisoned because his theory was heretical. He was imprisoned because his book, The Dialogue, was taken as a direct insult by Pope Urban VIII, who was in fact an ally of Galileo before the book was published. In short, Galileo's imprisonment and trial was mostly political
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twocupcakes
Posts: 2,750
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7/3/2012 8:17:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago

Once again you are just wrong. I can necessarily speak for every denomination, but most Christians I know either believe in evolution or don't know enough about it to have an opinion either way.

No man, its true. Religion does not require one to reject evolution (many religious believe in evolution), however it causes many people not to believe in evolution. Look in these forums for evidence. Go to the science and religious sections and you will find many people who distrust evolution based on religion. There are even politicians in the USA who want to teach "intelligent design" in school.

Sacred texts convey why and what caused creation. Most never intended to reveal the mechanisms from which creation occurred. It is irrelevant to the goal of most religions anyways

There are these people called young earth creationists who believe the earth is 6000 years old and reject all other evident. There are a few of them on DDO. It's tough to believe, but it is true. These people exist:(

Religion causes people to :think they "know" the answers without scientific discovery.

At the risk of sounding rude, I am going to answer that the bolded statement is complete bullsh!t. Religions only claim to know the ultimate cause of the how the world was created, not the mechanisms. Your argument fails because many scientists were and are practicing Christians. Many Christian organizations have established reputable centers of science and thought. Until you can prove a direct causal relationship between religion and the lack of scientific discovery, then you argument fails.

I'm not saying all religious people reject reason. However,the statement " Religion causes people to :think they "know" the answers without scientific discovery" is clearly true. This applies to the people who believe in faith medicine, reject evolution, are young earth creationists and more. To say that the above statement is 100% false is demonstrably incorrect.


Galileo was not imprisoned because his theory was heretical. He was imprisoned because his book, The Dialogue, was taken as a direct insult by Pope Urban VIII, who was in fact an ally of Galileo before the book was published. In short, Galileo's imprisonment and trial was mostly political

I was not around when Galileo was on trial, but it seems people rejected his ideas based on the Bible. Here is a quote from the wiki link.

"On February 24 the Qualifiers delivered their unanimous report: the idea that the Sun is stationary is "foolish and absurd in philosophy, and formally heretical since it explicitly contradicts in many places the sense of Holy Scripture..."; while the Earth's movement "receives the same judgement in philosophy and ... in regard to theological truth it is at least erroneous in faith"
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,926
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7/3/2012 8:19:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/3/2012 7:51:21 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 7/3/2012 7:26:54 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 7/3/2012 7:10:41 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 7/3/2012 6:26:00 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Religion often hinders scientific thought. Some people reject evolution based on religion. Others reject the origin of earth based on religion. Religion is often used as an excuse for not understanding science. I can see how religion could hinder Scientific thought.

The question the OP poses is not whether or not religious people have hindered science. Hell every group of people, even scientists, have hindered scientific thought. The OP poses that do religions, as an idealogy, hinder scientific thought. While some sure can, (Scientologists don't believe in mental illnesses, for example) many religions do not. In fact, many religions were vital to instituting colleges and propagating intellectual thought.

Religion has done more harm then Good to Science. Many common religions :hinder scientific thought. It is bad for science when people believe a set of ideas :from an old magic book trumps evolution and the origin of the earth.

Once again you are just wrong. I can necessarily speak for every denomination, but most Christians I know either believe in evolution or don't know enough about it to have an opinion either way.

Sacred texts convey why and what caused creation. Most never intended to reveal the mechanisms from which creation occurred. It is irrelevant to the goal of most religions anyways

I agree it depends on the religion. From what I know, Buddhism would not really :hinder science. However, Christianity/Islam do. Religion causes people to :think they "know" the answers without scientific discovery.

At the risk of sounding rude, I am going to answer that the bolded statement is complete bullsh!t. Religions only claim to know the ultimate cause of the how the world was created, not the mechanisms. Your argument fails because many scientists were and are practicing Christians. Many Christian organizations have established reputable centers of science and thought. Until you can prove a direct causal relationship between religion and the lack of scientific discovery, then you argument fails.

Galileo was imprisoned by the Catholic Church for teaching science that the Church :disagreed with. However, Galileo was correct. He was not forgiven until 1969.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Galileo was not imprisoned because his theory was heretical. He was imprisoned because his book, The Dialogue, was taken as a direct insult by Pope Urban VIII, who was in fact an ally of Galileo before the book was published. In short, Galileo's imprisonment and trial was mostly political

Not to mention the fact that the Church was defending the Aristotelian (or Platonisitic) science of the day. Sure, we know that conception of science to be false nowadays but it'd be absurd to say they were being anti-science. I can't believe people still think this - it's been thoroughly debunked. Just like the notion of the "Dark Ages" and the "conflict thesis". *

Galileo also lied in court, put forward false proofs in favor of heliocentrism, and like you said, insulted the Pope.

* "The conflict thesis proposed an intrinsic intellectual conflict between religion and science posited the notion that the relationship between religion and science inevitably leads to public hostility. The thesis, refined beyond its most simplistic original forms, remains generally popular. However, historians of science no longer support it."

http://en.wikipedia.org...
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Ren
Posts: 7,102
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7/3/2012 9:02:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/1/2012 9:50:21 PM, 000ike wrote:
I could have sworn I put this in the religious section

If you think about this subject really hard, you'll realize that it belongs here, and in fact, should be discussed under that context.

Because, you have no evidence of any inventors that were hindered by religion. Your bets support is a cartoon.

However, if you Googled Nikola Tesla, you'd see that capitalism and dickfaces like Thomas Edison regressed us 150 years (so far).
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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7/3/2012 9:08:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/3/2012 9:02:12 PM, Ren wrote:
At 7/1/2012 9:50:21 PM, 000ike wrote:
I could have sworn I put this in the religious section

If you think about this subject really hard, you'll realize that it belongs here, and in fact, should be discussed under that context.

Because, you have no evidence of any inventors that were hindered by religion. Your bets support is a cartoon.

However, if you Googled Nikola Tesla, you'd see that capitalism and dickfaces like Thomas Edison regressed us 150 years (so far).

The cartoon wasn't supposed to be evidence. Family Guy gave me the idea, and it was also a pretty funny clip. I was just curious to hear what people think. I never made a claim on the issue.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Reason_Alliance
Posts: 1,283
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7/3/2012 9:43:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/3/2012 6:26:00 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Religion often hinders scientific thought. Some people reject evolution based on religion. Others reject the origin of earth based on religion. Religion is often used as an excuse for not understanding science. I can see how religion could hinder Scientific thought.

Plantinga argues that though science & religion may have superficial conflict, it has deep concord. But science & naturalism has superficial concord but deep conflict, namely naturalism and evolution: then he goes into his famous EAAN Evolutionary Argument Against Naturalism.

He has yet to be refuted.
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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7/3/2012 9:46:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I haven't seen any evidence to suggest this, so....no, I would not say it hinders it. I would infact say it helps it.
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Ren
Posts: 7,102
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7/3/2012 10:01:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/3/2012 9:08:14 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 7/3/2012 9:02:12 PM, Ren wrote:
At 7/1/2012 9:50:21 PM, 000ike wrote:
I could have sworn I put this in the religious section

If you think about this subject really hard, you'll realize that it belongs here, and in fact, should be discussed under that context.

Because, you have no evidence of any inventors that were hindered by religion. Your bets support is a cartoon.

However, if you Googled Nikola Tesla, you'd see that capitalism and dickfaces like Thomas Edison regressed us 150 years (so far).

The cartoon wasn't supposed to be evidence. Family Guy gave me the idea, and it was also a pretty funny clip. I was just curious to hear what people think. I never made a claim on the issue.

Yeah... you're right. :P

And, yeah... it was funny. ^_^
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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7/4/2012 11:57:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/1/2012 9:44:03 PM, 000ike wrote:
Would we be any more scientifically advanced if there were no religions?

Too many people take religious text as their basis for science. If science contradicts the Bible, then it's science that is wrong, and so on... There would be much much fewer people rejecting an old universe if it weren't for religion, for example.
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