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resolutionsmasher
Posts: 579
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8/24/2009 8:11:38 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Do you believe that Obama is now...
1. Still a political Saint,
2. A liar to the public,
3. or a fool, fallen victem to his own political stupidity.

choose and explain.
In the relationship between Obama and the rest of the U.S..... I think the U.S. is getting the short end of the hockey stick.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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8/24/2009 8:14:48 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/24/2009 8:11:38 AM, resolutionsmasher wrote:
Do you believe that Obama is now...
1. Still a political Saint,
2. A liar to the public,
3. or a fool, fallen victem to his own political stupidity.

choose and explain.

Leave him alone, he's Bi-Polar.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
resolutionsmasher
Posts: 579
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8/24/2009 8:29:02 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Har har, that's a good one!
In the relationship between Obama and the rest of the U.S..... I think the U.S. is getting the short end of the hockey stick.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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8/24/2009 8:29:37 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/24/2009 8:11:38 AM, resolutionsmasher wrote:
Do you believe that Obama is now...
1. Still a political Saint,

On some aspects, he is much better than the old administration could ever have been. But, I never thought he was a "political saint" to being with. Of course he'll have some decisions that I disagree or agree with, but the facts are clear; this man is a breath of fresh air from the old administration. He's intelligent, thoughtful, a great orator and an alright strategist. Obama, like his policies or not, is a excellent President on many fronts.

2. A liar to the public,

When has he lied?

3. or a fool, fallen victem to his own political stupidity.

He's made missteps, the biggest so far being that he thought he could get the medicare passed in the House without major interference from the Congress or Senate.

But, that is how you learn, no? I would rather someone fall victim to political naivety/stupidity and learn from it, as Obama has now with his compromises with Blue Dog Dems, rather that fall victim to political stupidity and naivety and never learn a single thing, as Bush and his jolly band of neo-conservatives did.
Rezzealaux
Posts: 2,251
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8/24/2009 11:03:27 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/24/2009 8:11:38 AM, resolutionsmasher wrote:
Do you believe that Obama is now...
1. Still a political Saint,
Somewhat. Not as much.
2. A liar to the public,
Not by the strictest definition, but anyone who buys common sense and has some grip on the news will see Obama is full of sh!t and is contradicting himself effectively at many points. But what did you expect? He's a politician.
3. or a fool, fallen victem to his own political stupidity.
Nobody that's a fool would ever get up there.
: If you weren't new here, you'd know not to feed me such attention. This is like an orgasm in my brain right now. *hehe, my name is in a title, hehe* (http://www.debate.org...)

Just in case I get into some BS with FREEDO again about how he's NOT a narcissist.

"The law is there to destroy evil under the constitutional government."
So... what's there to destroy evil inside of and above the constitutional government?
SirAntonyP
Posts: 11
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8/24/2009 1:51:51 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
All politicians lie their way through their campaigns, they tell you what you want to hear

i don't believe people get elected into the main offices of power, they are let in
Proof? just look at the world.

Obama? he falls into the same category as the above, he has some good words to speak it's just are they going to amount to anything. I believe the majority wanted him in power, it's just the fact hes only in power because he is needed at this time to take peoples minds of everything esl for a little wile.

Regardless of colour or faith money and power all speak the same language.
mongoose
Posts: 3,500
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8/24/2009 2:59:06 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/24/2009 8:29:37 AM, Volkov wrote:
At 8/24/2009 8:11:38 AM, resolutionsmasher wrote:
Do you believe that Obama is now...
2. A liar to the public,

When has he lied?

You're kidding me, right?
It is odd when one's capacity for compassion is measured not in what he is willing to do by his own time, effort, and property, but what he will force others to do with their own property instead.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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8/24/2009 3:18:02 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/24/2009 2:59:06 PM, mongoose wrote:
You're kidding me, right?

Nope. Show me examples where he has out and out lied to the public. Not slight distractions, not broke promises; lies.
SirAntonyP
Posts: 11
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8/24/2009 3:20:06 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/24/2009 3:18:02 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 8/24/2009 2:59:06 PM, mongoose wrote:
You're kidding me, right?

Nope. Show me examples where he has out and out lied to the public. Not slight distractions, not broke promises; lies.

Closing Guantanamo bay?
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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8/24/2009 3:21:42 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/24/2009 3:20:06 PM, SirAntonyP wrote:
At 8/24/2009 3:18:02 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 8/24/2009 2:59:06 PM, mongoose wrote:
You're kidding me, right?

Nope. Show me examples where he has out and out lied to the public. Not slight distractions, not broke promises; lies.

Closing Guantanamo bay?

Comes under "Broken promises"
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
SirAntonyP
Posts: 11
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8/24/2009 3:22:52 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
If he was closing it he would have by now, he would have transferd the people in there to prisons in the us, just like were all the murderers are, there is no reasonw hatsoever it still should be open, not to mention the fact the base is illegal, and not wanted, it infringes the cubans sovereignty over their land
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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8/24/2009 3:23:10 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/24/2009 3:21:42 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 8/24/2009 3:20:06 PM, SirAntonyP wrote:
At 8/24/2009 3:18:02 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 8/24/2009 2:59:06 PM, mongoose wrote:
You're kidding me, right?

Nope. Show me examples where he has out and out lied to the public. Not slight distractions, not broke promises; lies.

Closing Guantanamo bay?

Comes under "Broken promises"

And he is still in the process of it. There is just some hurdles to get over, but he has not yet stated that he will be fully unable to close it. These things take time, due to the prisoners that they must handle and the costs associated with the program.
SirAntonyP
Posts: 11
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8/24/2009 3:23:51 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Not to mention the human rights abuses that are going on there.

and true broken promise but i seriously doubt he had intentions of closing it anytime soon, so lie.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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8/24/2009 3:25:07 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/24/2009 3:22:52 PM, SirAntonyP wrote:
If he was closing it he would have by now, he would have transferd the people in there to prisons in the us, just like were all the murderers are, there is no reasonw hatsoever it still should be open, not to mention the fact the base is illegal, and not wanted, it infringes the cubans sovereignty over their land

He wants to do that, but there is barriers from other US politicians, and politicians from other countries like my government, who have irresponsibly left a Canadian citizen to rot in Guantamano Bay despite a court order to bring him back.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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8/24/2009 3:26:57 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/24/2009 3:23:51 PM, SirAntonyP wrote:
i seriously doubt he had intentions of closing it anytime soon, so lie.

That is an assumption on your part, so it isn't a lie on Obama's part.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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8/24/2009 3:27:40 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/24/2009 3:22:52 PM, SirAntonyP wrote:
it infringes the cubans sovereignty over their land

Cuba willingly gave that land to the U.S. for giving it independence. Seems fair.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
SirAntonyP
Posts: 11
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8/24/2009 3:27:48 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/24/2009 3:25:07 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 8/24/2009 3:22:52 PM, SirAntonyP wrote:
If he was closing it he would have by now, he would have transferd the people in there to prisons in the us, just like were all the murderers are, there is no reasonw hatsoever it still should be open, not to mention the fact the base is illegal, and not wanted, it infringes the cubans sovereignty over their land

He wants to do that, but there is barriers from other US politicians, and politicians from other countries like my government, who have irresponsibly left a Canadian citizen to rot in Guantamano Bay despite a court order to bring him back.

The president has the executive order thingy doesn't he? he has veto power doesn't he? there is hundreds of billions spent on military why would it be a inconvenience to close one base? the presidents seem to use their power to break laws very easy but not to put them right, sad but true
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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8/24/2009 3:29:09 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/24/2009 3:28:10 PM, mongeese wrote:
He claimed that it was possible to lower taxes, increase spending, and balance the budget, throughout his campaign.

Do you brandish an accountant for lying if he miscalculates your mortgage? Sure, he did a bad job, but he never lied.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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8/24/2009 3:29:37 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/24/2009 3:28:53 PM, mongeese wrote:
Oh, and global warming.

Lying on the part of scientists if he's wrong.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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8/24/2009 3:30:26 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/24/2009 3:27:48 PM, SirAntonyP wrote:
At 8/24/2009 3:25:07 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 8/24/2009 3:22:52 PM, SirAntonyP wrote:
If he was closing it he would have by now, he would have transferd the people in there to prisons in the us, just like were all the murderers are, there is no reasonw hatsoever it still should be open, not to mention the fact the base is illegal, and not wanted, it infringes the cubans sovereignty over their land

He wants to do that, but there is barriers from other US politicians, and politicians from other countries like my government, who have irresponsibly left a Canadian citizen to rot in Guantamano Bay despite a court order to bring him back.

The president has the executive order thingy doesn't he? he has veto power doesn't he? there is hundreds of billions spent on military why would it be a inconvenience to close one base? the presidents seem to use their power to break laws very easy but not to put them right, sad but true

You really don't understand the game of politics do you?
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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8/24/2009 3:31:24 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/24/2009 3:29:09 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 8/24/2009 3:28:10 PM, mongeese wrote:
He claimed that it was possible to lower taxes, increase spending, and balance the budget, throughout his campaign.

Do you brandish an accountant for lying if he miscalculates your mortgage? Sure, he did a bad job, but he never lied.

He claimed that the impossible was possible. It's impossible to lower taxes, increase spending, and balance the budget.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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8/24/2009 3:32:19 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/24/2009 3:28:10 PM, mongeese wrote:
He claimed that it was possible to lower taxes, increase spending, and balance the budget, throughout his campaign.

It is, and it may yet be possible. You can't prove he lied about it either, especially since it hasn't been that long. There is a lot you can do when you're fiscally responsible, though.

And the global warming thing; what Panda said. Also, the Earth is warming, deal with it. Probably isn't man-made, but its warming. This is what it does. And the US does need to cut down on its wasteful energy and pollution practices anyways.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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8/24/2009 3:35:25 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/24/2009 3:27:48 PM, SirAntonyP wrote:
The president has the executive order thingy doesn't he? he has veto power doesn't he? there is hundreds of billions spent on military why would it be a inconvenience to close one base? the presidents seem to use their power to break laws very easy but not to put them right, sad but true

It would be nice if all that meant the President had unlimited power, but he doesn't, because other politicians will stand in his way, and I don't think we want a POTUS with unlimited power. It takes a lot of maneuvering, a lot of skill, and a f*ck of a lot of patience.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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8/24/2009 3:39:54 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/24/2009 3:36:38 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
*Fist Bumps Volkov on dual fronted defence*

It appears the two foreigners have to defend the American president. I wonder why this is.
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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8/24/2009 3:40:39 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/24/2009 3:32:19 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 8/24/2009 3:28:10 PM, mongeese wrote:
He claimed that it was possible to lower taxes, increase spending, and balance the budget, throughout his campaign.

It is, and it may yet be possible. You can't prove he lied about it either, especially since it hasn't been that long. There is a lot you can do when you're fiscally responsible, though.

But it's logically contradictory. Unless Obama can defy logic, he lied.

And the global warming thing; what Panda said. Also, the Earth is warming, deal with it. Probably isn't man-made, but its warming. This is what it does. And the US does need to cut down on its wasteful energy and pollution practices anyways.

Obama claims that global warming is man-made. So what if the scientists first came up with this lie? He reiterates it.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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8/24/2009 3:43:40 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/24/2009 3:40:39 PM, mongeese wrote:
At 8/24/2009 3:32:19 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 8/24/2009 3:28:10 PM, mongeese wrote:
He claimed that it was possible to lower taxes, increase spending, and balance the budget, throughout his campaign.

It is, and it may yet be possible. You can't prove he lied about it either, especially since it hasn't been that long. There is a lot you can do when you're fiscally responsible, though.

Ever hear of this?: http://en.wikipedia.org...


But it's logically contradictory. Unless Obama can defy logic, he lied.

And the global warming thing; what Panda said. Also, the Earth is warming, deal with it. Probably isn't man-made, but its warming. This is what it does. And the US does need to cut down on its wasteful energy and pollution practices anyways.

Obama claims that global warming is man-made. So what if the scientists first came up with this lie? He reiterates it.

Obama has been lied to. He can't be blamed for spreadgn a lie he's been lead to believe.

At 8/24/2009 3:39:54 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 8/24/2009 3:36:38 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
*Fist Bumps Volkov on dual fronted defence*

It appears the two foreigners have to defend the American president. I wonder why this is.

It was the exact opposite 2 years ago. Thankfully Glenn beck and Rush Limbaugh doesn't reach the Irish shore, unless of course they're being rebutted. .
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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8/24/2009 3:44:31 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/24/2009 3:40:39 PM, mongeese wrote:
But it's logically contradictory. Unless Obama can defy logic, he lied.

I don't see how you can't do it. You just use your resources wisely; cut spending to some things, increase for others. Create an efficient system where money that flows to certain programs uses it all, so there is no wasteful spending. Then, the leftovers you can either use to boost other programs that might have been cut, or you can give citizens a tax break. It is all about efficiency and allocation.

Obama claims that global warming is man-made. So what if the scientists first came up with this lie? He reiterates it.

He isn't at fault for the lie. Just like Bush wouldn't be responsible for the Iraqi lies, if he didn't know exactly what was going on.