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Racism

royalpaladin
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7/8/2012 9:43:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Racism, Pure and Simple

URI AVNERY

Israel

"We shall not be a normal people, until we have Jewish whores and Jewish thieves in the Land of Israel," our national poet, Haim Nahman Bialik, said some 80 years ago.

This dream has come true. We have Jewish murderers, Jewish robbers and Jewish whores (though most prostitutes in Israel are imported by international slave traders from Eastern Europe through the Sinai border).

But Bialik was too unambitious. He should have added: We shall not become a normal people until we have Jewish Neo-Nazis and Jewish concentration camps.

The central news item nowadays in all our electronic and print media is the terrible danger of "illegal" African migrants.

African refugees and job seekers are drawn to Israel for several reasons, none of which is an ardent belief in Zionism.

The first is geographical. Israel is the only country with a European standard of living that can be reached from Africa without crossing a sea. Africans can easily reach Egypt, and then they have only to cross the Sinai desert to get to the Israeli border.

The desert is the home of Bedouin tribes, for whom smuggling is an age-old occupation. Whether Libyan weapons for Hamas in Gaza, Ukrainian women for the brothels of Tel Aviv or job seekers from Sudan – for good money, the Bedouin will get them all to their destination. On the way they may hold them for ransom or rape the women.

The Africans – mainly from North and South Sudan and Eritrea – are attracted by the Israeli Labor market. Israelis have long since ceased to do the menial jobs. They need people to wash the dishes in the posh restaurants, clean their homes and carry the heavy loads in the markets.

For years, these jobs were done by Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza. After the intifadas, our government put an end to this. The Africans fill their place.

They are, of course, paid what Israelis consider hunger wages, but enough to enable the migrants to send money back to their families. Small sums of dollars look like fortunes back home.

To enable them to send the money, the migrants lead a dog's life. Almost all of them are single men, crammed into dirty old houses in the slums of Tel Aviv and other towns, ogling the local girls, getting drunk for recreation.

The Israeli inhabitants of these slums, the poorest of the poor, hate them. They accuse them of all kinds of crimes, including rape, violent quarrels and murder. They also believe that they carry dangerous diseases which are almost unknown in Israel, such as malaria and tuberculosis. Unlike Israelis, they have not been inoculated at birth.

All these accusations are, of course, vastly exaggerated. But one can understand the Israeli slum-dwellers who have to live with poor foreigners with whom they have no communication.

In such circumstances, racism flourishes. The Africans are easily recognized by their skin. The usual racist verbiage – "They rape our women", "They are all carrying deadly diseases", "They are like animals" abounds, added to a special Israeli one: "They endanger the Jewish State".

All in all, there are now some 60 thousand Africans in Israel, to which must be added about 3000 newcomers every month. There are also large numbers of ("legal") Thais who work in agriculture, Chinese and Romanians in the building industry, Philippinos aiding the sick and elderly.

(A current joke: An old Palmachnik - member of the pre-state illegal military organization – attends a veterans' reunion and exclaims: "Wow, I didn't know there were so many Philippinos in the Palmach!")

With Israel's Jewish population amounting to 6,5 million, and Arab citizens making 1.5 million more, it is easy to depict the migrants as a terrible danger to the Jewishness of the state.

As a swamp draws mosquitos, such a situation draws rabble-rousers and hate-mongers. And we have no lack of these.

A few weeks ago, riots erupted in Tel Aviv's Hatikva quarter, one of the affected slums. Africans were attacked, African-owned shops looted.

As if drawn by magic, within record time all the well-known fascist agitators appeared on the scene, inciting the crowd against the Africans and leftist "bleeding hearts".

The most media attention was given to a Likud Member of Parliament, Miri Regev. Not satisfied with the usual epithets, she shouted that the Africans were "a cancer".

This expression, lifted from the lexicon of Goebbels, shocked many throughout the country. Regev is not only a pretty woman, but also a former Chief Spokesperson of the Israeli army (appointed by former Chief of Staff Dan Halutz, of the disastrous Lebanon War ii fame, remembered for his remark that, when dropping a bomb on a residential quarter, he feels nothing but a "slight bump on the wing".)

Regev hit the headlines with her speech and was rewarded with numerous TV interviews, in which she distinguished herself by using the language once attributed to fisherwomen. (No insult to fisherwomen intended.) She was, to put it bluntly, disgusting.

About disgust: I have a personal hobby. Every week I choose – strictly for myself – the most disgusting person in Israeli public life. For the last few consecutive weeks my chosen laureate was Eli Yishai of the Oriental Orthodox party Shas.

Shas is totally dominated by one person: Rabbi Ovadia Yosef. He hires and fires the party's political leadership. His word is law. When the last leader was sent to prison for stealing, Rabbi Ovadia produced Eli Yishai from nowhere.

As Interior Minister, Yishai has served mainly as a conduit of government money to his party's institutions. In all other functions he has failed dismally. It is strongly rumoured that in his forthcoming report about the Carmel Forest fire, the State Comptroller is going to recommend his dismissal for gross incompetence.

For Yishai, the anti-African hysteria is a gift from his God. After telling the public that the migrants are criminals, carry diseases and endanger the Jewish state, he declared war on them.

Now the whole country is mobilized. Every day, the number of deported Africans heads the news. Yishai's special "immigration police" are photographed pushing Africans into police vans. Yishai himself appears daily on TV to boast of his accomplishments.

The Knesset is discussing a bill that would impose stiff prison terms (five years!) plus a fine of half a million shekels (100 thousand Euros!) on anyone employing an "illegal" worker. Fortunately this law is yet in the works and will not apply to the wives of the Defense Minister (Ehud Barak) and the Attorney General (Yehuda Weinstein) who were caught employing illegal migrants at their homes. (Their husbands, of course, knew nothing about it.)

Most of all, Yishai brags about the huge manhunt now in progress. Africans cower in their miserable homes, not daring to go out into the streets. At night they are alert to every noise, fearing the dreaded knock of the immigration police on their door.

Trouble is, most of the 60 thousand Africans come from Eritrea and North Sudan, to which the migrants cannot be sent back, because the Supreme Court has forbidden it. Their repatriation would put their lives in danger. This leaves only the citizens of the new state of South Sudan, which has been liberated with the help of Israeli military advisers and arms. They are now being rounded up, in the full glare of publicity, to be deported.

What about the others? The government is now feverishly at work building huge tent camps in the arid Negev desert, in the middle of nowhere, in which tens of thousands of migrants will be imprisoned for three years in what cannot but be inhuman conditions. Since no foreign country is ready to take them in, they will probably stay there for much longer. As of now, there is no water nor sanitary conditions, women and children (born in Israel and Hebrew speaking) will be housed separately. In
royalpaladin
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7/8/2012 9:43:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
In the summer, temperatures will easily reach 40 degrees Centigrade. Life inside the tents will be hell.

Yishai and his colleague have a flair for laundered language. The migrants are called "infiltrators", deportation is called "returning", the prison camps will be called "residence camps". Not concentration camps, God forbid.

I am aware that in several other "civilized" countries, migrants are treated as badly, or worse. This does not comfort me in the least.

I am also aware that there is a real problem which has to be solved. But not this way.

As a citizen of a state that calls itself "Jewish", or even "the state of the Holocaust survivors", I am disgusted.

I have heard innumerable times about Nazi Jew-hunts, as well as American lynch mobs and Russian pogroms. There is no comparison, of course, but the pictures are popping up in my mind. Can't help it.

Our treatment of the African refugees and migrants has nothing to do with the old conflict with the Arabs. It cannot be justified with arguments that concern the war and national security.

This is Racism, pure and simple.
OberHerr
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7/8/2012 9:55:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I wanna see some sources.

Reliable, non-biased ones.
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OberHerr
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7/8/2012 10:03:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
And, I also find it hard to believe the article's integrity after googling the author, and reading through all the clear hate for all things Israeli and the hyperbolic way he describes people....
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Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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7/8/2012 10:07:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
sraeli court okays deportation of Ivory Coast migrants
AFPBy Jonah Mandel | AFP – Sun, Jun 24, 2012
Related Content

Ivorian Coast opposition activists hold placards and shout slogans during a demonstration outside the Knesset, the Israeli Parliament, in Jerusalem on June 17. An Israeli court on Sunday upheld government plans to deport illegal migrants from the Ivory Coast, paving the way for the imminent expulsion of an estimated 2,000 Ivorians. (AFP Photo/Ahmad Gharabli)

Ivorian Coast opposition activists …

An Israeli court on Sunday upheld government plans to deport illegal migrants from the Ivory Coast, paving the way for the imminent expulsion of an estimated 2,000 Ivorians.

The United Nations declared Ivory Coast "a crisis state" in 2004 after years of civil unrest. But after fighting ended and economist Alassane Ouattara took over as president in 2011, Israel said it was cancelling a long-standing policy of "collective protection" for Ivorian migrants.

On Sunday, the Jerusalem District Court rejected a petition by 132 Ivorian emigres requesting that their status be restored, or that alternatively each be enabled to apply for refugee status, or given leave to stay on humanitarian grounds.

The petition argued that "based on many international reports, including recent UN reports, the situation in Ivory Coast is still dangerous," and their status should therefore not change.

But the court ruled that the new policy, based on Israeli foreign ministry evaluations, was reasonable and proportionate.

In a statement, Interior Minister Eli Yishai called the court's ruling "an important decision," but added that "the main problem is the presence of Eritreans and Sudanese, who comprise the main bulk of the infiltrators, some 50,000 people."

Yishai said that his office was waiting for evaluations by the foreign and justice ministries so that it could act to "return these infiltrators home."

Sabine Hadad, spokeswoman for the interior ministry's population and migration authority, told AFP there were approximately 2,000 Ivorians in Israel, and that their expulsion would begin in July.

Last week, Israel flew home a first plane load of 120 illegal immigrants from South Sudan who it said had agreed to be voluntarily repatriated.

Since June 10, Israel has arrested hundreds of Africans in a nationwide roundup with the aim of deporting them.

At Sunday's weekly cabinet meeting, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu announced that a second flight to South Sudan would leave Israel on Monday.

"Two additional planes will leave next week," he added.

Hadad said 150 South Sudanese who agreed to leave Israel voluntarily would fly directly to the capital Juba between Monday and Tuesday.

In an interview broadcast on Saturday Ivorian President Ouattara told Israel's state-owned Channel 1 television that he didn't think the Israeli government would "go to forcing people to return," because of the Jewish people's own history of displacement."

Ouattara, who visited Israel earlier in the week, said that Ivory Coast was "very sympathetic of the problems which Israel has had, and I think we have such a strong friendship that the two governments can find ways to make sure that the return of Ivorians is a positive step."

Netanyahu noted the completion of 190 kilometres (118 miles) of a security barrier along Israel's 240-kilometre (150-mile) border with the Egyptian Sinai along with tougher policy toward those caught trying to sneak across.

"The combination of these things, including fines and punishments for those who employ illegal infiltrators, I think has begun to reverse the trend, and we will solve this problem," he said of the approximately 60,000 African immigrants present in Israel.

http://news.yahoo.com...
royalpaladin
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7/8/2012 10:08:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Here's an Israeli newspaper:

Thousands in Jerusalem protest racism against Ethiopian Israelis
Protesters march in front of the Knesset and hold signs which read, 'Blacks and Whites – We're all Equal' and 'Our Blood is Only Good for Wars.'
By Oz Rosenberg| Jan.18, 2012 | 5:46 PM | 59

Ethiopian protest - Ilan Assayag - January 2012
Israelis of Ethiopian origin demonstrating against racism in Kiryat Malakhi last week. Photo by Ilan Assayag
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Israeli school bus driver recorded spewing racist slurs at Ethiopian children
By Oz Rosenberg| Jan.18,2012 | 5:46 PM
Ethiopian-Israeli begins three-day march to protest racism
By Revital Blumenfeld| Jan.18,2012 | 5:46 PM

Some 5,000 people were demonstrating in Jerusalem on Wednesday in protest of the racism against Ethiopian immigrants in Israel.

The protesters blocked a major road in Jerusalem and marched in front of the Knesset while holding signs that read, "Blacks and Whites – We're all Equal", "Social Justice," "Our Blood is Only Good for Wars."
royalpaladin
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7/8/2012 10:09:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Racism towards other groups

In April 2012,the Swedish newspaper Svenska Dagbladet reported[114] that tens of thousands of refugees and African migrant workers who have come to Israel in dangerous smuggling routes, live in southern Tel Aviv's Levinsky Park. SvD reported that some Africans in the park sleep on cardboard boxes under the stars, others crowd in dark hovels. Also was noted a situation with African refugees, such as Sudanese from Darfur, Eritreans, Ethiopians and other African nationalities, who stand in queue to the soup kitchen, organized by Israeli volunteers. The interior minister reportedly "wants everyone to be deported".

In May 2012, disgruntlement toward Africans and calls for deportation and "blacks out" in Tel Aviv boiled over into death threats, fire bombings, rioting, and property destruction. Protesters blamed immigrants for worsening crime and the local economy.[115]

http://en.wikipedia.org...
royalpaladin
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7/8/2012 10:10:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Christian Science Monitor:

Ethiopian Jews Find Israel To
Be A Racist State
By Ben Lynfield
Special To The Christian Science Monitor
5-24-2

RISHON LEZION, ISRAEL - Alimu Ishete was trying to bridge the divide between Ethiopian Jews and their adopted country. During a recent talk in this Tel Aviv suburb, he brought out a traditional white robe, worn in Ethiopian villages on Jewish holidays, and picked away at the krar, an Ethiopian guitar.

His audience of Israeli educators listened closely. After two decades, it seemed it was the first time they were really hearing about Ethiopian Jews.

The gap between black and white Israelis seems, with some exceptions, to be growing. For Ethiopians, it is visible in impoverished neighborhoods, soaring unemployment, and the highest high-school dropout rate of any Jewish group in Israel.

Twenty-six percent of Ethiopian youths have either dropped out or do not show up for classes most of the time, raising concerns that the community's current difficulties may become chronic. Drug use, including glue-sniffing, is on the rise, and criminal activity, hardly known among Ethiopians before they came to Israel, has been growing. Ethiopian Jews, who number just over 1 percent of the more than 6 million Israelis, arrived mostly in two waves: during the early 1980s and then in a dramatic US-backed airlift a decade ago. Most started almost from scratch in education and job skills. There were also cultural differences. "In Ethiopia, children look down when their teacher talks," Mr. Ishete says, in contrast to native Israeli children, who look their teachers right in the eye.
For the Ethiopians, 95 percent of whom were subsistence farmers, the leap to 21st-century, first-world Israel was so enormous as to be hard to grasp, he adds.

But not everyone is sympathetic. Israeli mayors unabashedly urge the government to keep Ethiopian immigrants away from their cities.

During a break in Ishete's talk, Masha Aroshes, Rishon LeZion municipality official, says that more Ethiopian families due to arrive here are not welcome.

"They are going to a neighborhood which the mayor has been trying very hard to improve," she says. "It is just starting to flower. Adding another 35 Ethiopian families is not right. It impacts on the education level. In order for the Ethiopians to be properly absorbed, they should not go there."
That kind of talk is adding to alienation among Ethiopians, according to Asher Elias, a staff member at the Israel Association for Ethiopian Jews (IAEJ).

"Ethiopians have lots of motivation to become Israelis, but they are not accepted," he says. "In jobs, in education, people feel they are discriminated against because they are black. I'm not saying it is right or wrong, but it is what we are feeling, and that is enough."

A low point in the relationship between Ethiopian Jews and Israelis came in 1996, when it was revealed that Israeli hospitals had thrown out all blood donated by Ethiopians. "These were donations to help other Israelis," Mr. Elias says. "[Ethiopians] said to each other: 'What do they think? That we are not humans?' "

Habad, one of Israel's stronger orthodox religious groups, doesn't recognize Ethiopians as Jews or allow their children into its kindergartens.
The government has taken some affirmative-action steps, offering mortgages on better terms than to other groups so Ethiopians can become property owners. It also pays fully for the university education of Ethiopians.

Elias says that a strong affinity of Ethiopian youths for rap and reggae music shows that many are looking for non-Israeli cultural identities. In the music of reggae singer Bob Marley, "Ethiopia is the top of the world, Haile Salasse and the flag of Ethiopia are the main thing," he says. "So who are these kids going to listen to, Israeli bands or Bob Marley?"
Israelis are developing a negative image of Ethiopians, warns Yair Tsaban, who was immigration minister during the second immigration wave. "The absorption of the Ethiopians could be a source of pride for the country," he says. "But if the Ethiopian immigrants are associated with crime and violence in the minds of other Israelis, there can be alienation. People could ask 'Why have they been brought here?' "

Officials at the Jewish Agency, a quasi-governmental organization that helps the immigrants, stress the positive: There are 1,500 Ethiopians in universities or colleges, compared with just 100 five years ago. And things are looking up - the agency, government ministries, and Jewish communities abroad plan to come together for a $600 million nine-year program of job training and improving education for Ethiopian immigrants. Perhaps the strongest ray of light is the IAEJ itself, founded in 1993 as an independent advocacy group. It works with hundreds of young activists from all over Israel and, funded mostly by American Jews, lobbies Israeli politicians. Members of the organization say it has enabled thousands of students to study in academic rather than vocational programs. It has also been instrumental in a rise in the number of Ethiopians who pass their high school matriculation exams.
One IAEJ program tackled truancy by forging contacts between Ethiopian dropouts and "big brothers and sisters." The program was adopted and expanded by the Education Ministry as a way of reaching all children at risk, and now has 15 offices across Israel.

"We don't have a lot to give in terms of valuables and possessions," Elias says of the Ethiopian community. "But when we fight for something, it can also help the other groups that have been left behind."

http://www.rense.com...
BlackVoid
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7/8/2012 11:32:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I read all of the first article. I'm with CP, what exactly is your argument? That racism exists? Nobody (at least on this site) denies that.
royalpaladin
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7/9/2012 6:05:22 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/8/2012 11:01:39 PM, Cermank wrote:
There is not 1 country in the world without racism.

This justifies the government acting on racist policies why?

Even the US government does not enact racist, fascist policies like this.
It has ceased to be a territorial problem.
royalpaladin
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7/9/2012 6:06:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/8/2012 11:32:24 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
I read all of the first article. I'm with CP, what exactly is your argument?
I am simply demonstrating that Israel is not the bastion of freedom and equality that people claim and that it has fascist tendencies. People claim that Israel is pure and that Palestinians are aggressors. This incident is proving that Israelis are committing atrocities against Jews (their own compatriots) who have done nothing to incite them, simply because of race. Israel is one of the few modern democratic nations that acts on fascist-like policies.
That racism exists? Nobody (at least on this site) denies that.
Ore_Ele
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7/9/2012 7:58:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
What fascist policies? From what I read of the articles, it seems that most of the "racism" is from other poor people, not the government.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
royalpaladin
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7/9/2012 8:02:47 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/9/2012 7:58:11 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
What fascist policies? From what I read of the articles, it seems that most of the "racism" is from other poor people, not the government.

Deportation of non-white Jews.
Ore_Ele
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7/9/2012 8:10:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/9/2012 8:02:47 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 7/9/2012 7:58:11 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
What fascist policies? From what I read of the articles, it seems that most of the "racism" is from other poor people, not the government.

Deportation of non-white Jews.

I saw deportation of illegal immigrants in there, maybe I missed that one. Could you point out where that was?
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
royalpaladin
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7/9/2012 8:32:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/9/2012 8:10:03 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 7/9/2012 8:02:47 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 7/9/2012 7:58:11 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
What fascist policies? From what I read of the articles, it seems that most of the "racism" is from other poor people, not the government.

Deportation of non-white Jews.

I saw deportation of illegal immigrants in there, maybe I missed that one. Could you point out where that was?

1. Most of them are refugees, not illegal immigrants

2. The European Jews illegally immigrated to Israel.

3. The State of Israel has been claiming that it welcomes ALL Jews to immigrate for years. Thus, they are not illegal immigrants because they were invited by the state (although the state has no moral legitimacy).
Cermank
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7/9/2012 9:53:12 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/9/2012 6:05:22 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 7/8/2012 11:01:39 PM, Cermank wrote:
There is not 1 country in the world without racism.

This justifies the government acting on racist policies why?

Even the US government does not enact racist, fascist policies like this.

1. This is not even racism. Initially, I thought you were pointing out the racism among people, which is what the majority of the beginning of the article deals with, so I was a little non-plussed. The topic at hand is not racism, it's securing of borders. This is a political issue.

2. Although the steps taken are controversial, why exactly is it unjustified? The government is not obliged to cater to the immigrants.

I find it funny that initially, they equate the refugee camps to concentration camps, and now they wish to stay here.
royalpaladin
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7/9/2012 9:55:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/9/2012 9:53:12 AM, Cermank wrote:
At 7/9/2012 6:05:22 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 7/8/2012 11:01:39 PM, Cermank wrote:
There is not 1 country in the world without racism.

This justifies the government acting on racist policies why?

Even the US government does not enact racist, fascist policies like this.

1. This is not even racism. Initially, I thought you were pointing out the racism among people, which is what the majority of the beginning of the article deals with, so I was a little non-plussed. The topic at hand is not racism, it's securing of borders. This is a political issue.

This is a political issue that is a result of racism.

As the article notes, a member of the Likud Party has created these policies while openly announcing that African Jews are a "Cancer".
2. Although the steps taken are controversial, why exactly is it unjustified? The government is not obliged to cater to the immigrants.
Well, if the government openly invites all Jews to immigrate to Israel, then it is. Moreover, considering that the European Jews are occupying Israel through invasion, I think that the State has no authority to deny other non-European Jews entrance into their ancestral lands.

I find it funny that initially, they equate the refugee camps to concentration camps, and now they wish to stay here.
Cermank
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7/9/2012 10:17:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago

1. This is not even racism. Initially, I thought you were pointing out the racism among people, which is what the majority of the beginning of the article deals with, so I was a little non-plussed. The topic at hand is not racism, it's securing of borders. This is a political issue.

This is a political issue that is a result of racism.

As the article notes, a member of the Likud Party has created these policies while openly announcing that African Jews are a "Cancer".
2. Although the steps taken are controversial, why exactly is it unjustified? The government is not obliged to cater to the immigrants.

Well, if the government openly invites all Jews to immigrate to Israel, then it is. Moreover, considering that the European Jews are occupying Israel through invasion, I think that the State has no authority to deny other non-European Jews entrance into their ancestral lands.

Israel has a responsibility to maintain law and order, and maintain security standards in the region. The social conditions when that invitation was extended was made was very different from the situation today. The volatile situations today are a threat to them, and to the natives. The state has an inherent responsibility to maintain safety.

The deportation would be illegal only if the conditions in the country they are returning to are so deplorable that they pose a threat to the life of the immigrants, if they return. They are not.

The are given an inhand compensation of an amount more than their yearly salary in Sudan, for example. South Sudan also did not oppose the deportation.
royalpaladin
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7/9/2012 10:31:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/9/2012 10:17:03 AM, Cermank wrote:

1. This is not even racism. Initially, I thought you were pointing out the racism among people, which is what the majority of the beginning of the article deals with, so I was a little non-plussed. The topic at hand is not racism, it's securing of borders. This is a political issue.

This is a political issue that is a result of racism.

As the article notes, a member of the Likud Party has created these policies while openly announcing that African Jews are a "Cancer".
2. Although the steps taken are controversial, why exactly is it unjustified? The government is not obliged to cater to the immigrants.

Well, if the government openly invites all Jews to immigrate to Israel, then it is. Moreover, considering that the European Jews are occupying Israel through invasion, I think that the State has no authority to deny other non-European Jews entrance into their ancestral lands.

Israel has a responsibility to maintain law and order, and maintain security standards in the region. The social conditions when that invitation was extended was made was very different from the situation today.
The only difference is that Israel is more secure today than it was then. It was embroiled in conflict with several other nations when it extended the offer. How does the fact that the state is more secure today mean that Israel now needs to retract the offer to defend security?

The difference is not in security, but rather in the people who are immigrating the region. The majority of previous immigrants were European Jews, while the current immigrants are African Jews. Israel really only wanted the Jews of Germanic descent to enter the state, and it is now retracting its offer, when it is more secure than it was in the past, in order to prevent non-white "Cancers" (the term was lifted straight from Mein Kampf, by the way), from entering the nation.
The volatile situations today are a threat to them, and to the natives.
Since when did Israel care about the welfare of the natives of the land?
The state has an inherent responsibility to maintain safety.

States have no moral legitimacy, especially Israel, since it arose through violence and degradation of others. The government of Israel is an illegitimate power.
The deportation would be illegal only if the conditions in the country they are returning to are so deplorable that they pose a threat to the life of the immigrants, if they return. They are not.

That's also false. One of the articles that I posted notes that the Human Rights situation in the Ivory Coast is considered deplorable and dangerous by the United Nations and the international community's standards. So, even if we adopt your standards as a mechanism for determining the moral permissibility of the action, it is STILL unjust.
The are given an inhand compensation of an amount more than their yearly salary in Sudan, for example. South Sudan also did not oppose the deportation.

Who cares if another state does not oppose the deportation? That doesn't justify it. Plus, a year's compensation is not worth a lifetime of torment.
Ore_Ele
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7/9/2012 10:58:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/9/2012 8:32:51 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 7/9/2012 8:10:03 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 7/9/2012 8:02:47 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 7/9/2012 7:58:11 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
What fascist policies? From what I read of the articles, it seems that most of the "racism" is from other poor people, not the government.

Deportation of non-white Jews.

I saw deportation of illegal immigrants in there, maybe I missed that one. Could you point out where that was?

1. Most of them are refugees, not illegal immigrants

From what I read in your sources, they were smuggled in (and you said some were kidnapped and/or raped).

"smuggled in" seems fairly similar to "illegal immigration."


2. The European Jews illegally immigrated to Israel.

That's besides the point.


3. The State of Israel has been claiming that it welcomes ALL Jews to immigrate for years. Thus, they are not illegal immigrants because they were invited by the state (although the state has no moral legitimacy).

Actually the law of return does have limits, but regardless, sneaking into the country is not the same as utilizing the law of return.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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7/9/2012 11:03:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/9/2012 10:58:25 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 7/9/2012 8:32:51 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 7/9/2012 8:10:03 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 7/9/2012 8:02:47 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 7/9/2012 7:58:11 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
What fascist policies? From what I read of the articles, it seems that most of the "racism" is from other poor people, not the government.

Deportation of non-white Jews.

I saw deportation of illegal immigrants in there, maybe I missed that one. Could you point out where that was?

1. Most of them are refugees, not illegal immigrants

From what I read in your sources, they were smuggled in (and you said some were kidnapped and/or raped).

That's a pretty strange misinterpretation of what the author wrote. He said that they used old smuggling routes to get in, and not that they were smuggle in.
"smuggled in" seems fairly similar to "illegal immigration."


2. The European Jews illegally immigrated to Israel.

That's besides the point.

No, it isn't, because it demonstrates that they are being hypocritical for deporting illegal immigrants of other races. They're just enforcing racist standards on others. As usual, everyone has to be moral except for Europeans.

3. The State of Israel has been claiming that it welcomes ALL Jews to immigrate for years. Thus, they are not illegal immigrants because they were invited by the state (although the state has no moral legitimacy).

Actually the law of return does have limits, but regardless, sneaking into the country is not the same as utilizing the law of return.

It is if they are Jews.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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7/9/2012 11:22:28 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/9/2012 11:03:51 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 7/9/2012 10:58:25 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 7/9/2012 8:32:51 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 7/9/2012 8:10:03 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 7/9/2012 8:02:47 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 7/9/2012 7:58:11 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
What fascist policies? From what I read of the articles, it seems that most of the "racism" is from other poor people, not the government.

Deportation of non-white Jews.

I saw deportation of illegal immigrants in there, maybe I missed that one. Could you point out where that was?

1. Most of them are refugees, not illegal immigrants

From what I read in your sources, they were smuggled in (and you said some were kidnapped and/or raped).

That's a pretty strange misinterpretation of what the author wrote. He said that they used old smuggling routes to get in, and not that they were smuggle in.

"The desert is the home of Bedouin tribes, for whom smuggling is an age-old occupation. Whether Libyan weapons for Hamas in Gaza, Ukrainian women for the brothels of Tel Aviv or job seekers from Sudan – for good money, the Bedouin will get them all to their destination. On the way they may hold them for ransom or rape the women."

Seems pretty clear cut there.

"smuggled in" seems fairly similar to "illegal immigration."


2. The European Jews illegally immigrated to Israel.

That's besides the point.

No, it isn't, because it demonstrates that they are being hypocritical for deporting illegal immigrants of other races. They're just enforcing racist standards on others. As usual, everyone has to be moral except for Europeans.

Life is hypocritical. The lion kills the wildebeest for food, yets resists being killed for food itself.


3. The State of Israel has been claiming that it welcomes ALL Jews to immigrate for years. Thus, they are not illegal immigrants because they were invited by the state (although the state has no moral legitimacy).

Actually the law of return does have limits, but regardless, sneaking into the country is not the same as utilizing the law of return.

It is if they are Jews.

No it isn't. Since there is a governing body which determines who is and who is not a jew. If people are sneaking into the country, they are obviously not getting confirmation and so not utilizing the Law of Return.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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7/9/2012 11:26:13 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/9/2012 11:22:28 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 7/9/2012 11:03:51 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 7/9/2012 10:58:25 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 7/9/2012 8:32:51 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 7/9/2012 8:10:03 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 7/9/2012 8:02:47 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 7/9/2012 7:58:11 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
What fascist policies? From what I read of the articles, it seems that most of the "racism" is from other poor people, not the government.

Deportation of non-white Jews.

I saw deportation of illegal immigrants in there, maybe I missed that one. Could you point out where that was?

1. Most of them are refugees, not illegal immigrants

From what I read in your sources, they were smuggled in (and you said some were kidnapped and/or raped).

That's a pretty strange misinterpretation of what the author wrote. He said that they used old smuggling routes to get in, and not that they were smuggle in.

"The desert is the home of Bedouin tribes, for whom smuggling is an age-old occupation. Whether Libyan weapons for Hamas in Gaza, Ukrainian women for the brothels of Tel Aviv or job seekers from Sudan – for good money, the Bedouin will get them all to their destination. On the way they may hold them for ransom or rape the women."

In April 2012,the Swedish newspaper Svenska Dagbladet reported[114] that tens of thousands of refugees and African migrant workers who have come to Israel in dangerous smuggling routes, live in southern Tel Aviv's Levinsky Park. SvD reported that some Africans in the park sleep on cardboard boxes under the stars, others crowd in dark hovels.

This clarifies what was written. People aren't being smuggled in; they're just using smuggling routes.

"smuggled in" seems fairly similar to "illegal immigration."


2. The European Jews illegally immigrated to Israel.

That's besides the point.

No, it isn't, because it demonstrates that they are being hypocritical for deporting illegal immigrants of other races. They're just enforcing racist standards on others. As usual, everyone has to be moral except for Europeans.

Life is hypocritical. The lion kills the wildebeest for food, yets resists being killed for food itself.

Is/Ought Logical Fallacy

3. The State of Israel has been claiming that it welcomes ALL Jews to immigrate for years. Thus, they are not illegal immigrants because they were invited by the state (although the state has no moral legitimacy).

Actually the law of return does have limits, but regardless, sneaking into the country is not the same as utilizing the law of return.

It is if they are Jews.

No it isn't. Since there is a governing body which determines who is and who is not a jew.
What gives those governing bodies authority?

LOL, a European Jew body cannot disqualify African Jews, who have been practicing since before the days of the Talmud, from Jewry.
If people are sneaking into the country, they are obviously not getting confirmation and so not utilizing the Law of Return.
They're not "sneaking" into the country because they're not Jews. They're "sneaking" into the country because they are escaping human rights abuses in OTHER nations and find it difficult to apply for citizenship.
royalpaladin
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7/9/2012 11:29:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
My favorite part of the entire affair occurred when Likud Party members began referring to African Jews using terms that Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf to describe European Jews.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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7/9/2012 11:32:55 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I agree with Royal for the most part that the Israeli government in hypocritical. But I don't think it is exclusive to Israel. When the United States government and constitution was set up (by European immigrants), they restricted citizenship to only Europeans for many years before opening it up to citizens from all countries. So, the common theme seems to be that whichever immigrant group can set up a government first has tremendous control of who can and who cannot enter the country. The key is to not just get there first (Native Americans were in the United States for thousands of years), but to actually set borders, and a governing body. Once you do that, the state is yours to run as you please.

Anyways, regarding Israel, I do agree that it makes no sense if the intention of the Israeli state is to set up a homeland for Jews, to then filter out African Jews because they are African. I definitely consider Israel to be on par with all the states that violate human rights like Pakistan, North Korea and Iraq. Why the United States supports them so much and runs to their beck and call boggles my mind.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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7/9/2012 11:39:31 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/9/2012 11:36:23 AM, drafterman wrote:
http://i1.kym-cdn.com...

I'm not sure I've heard of this phenomenon of people heralding Israel of being some bastion of civil liberties.

Talk to Conservatives.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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7/9/2012 11:50:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/9/2012 11:39:31 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 7/9/2012 11:36:23 AM, drafterman wrote:
http://i1.kym-cdn.com...

I'm not sure I've heard of this phenomenon of people heralding Israel of being some bastion of civil liberties.

Talk to Conservatives.

Well, you created this thread. Is there something concrete or specific you were responding to, something you can point to and show the rest of us, or just a general perception you have of conservatives?