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Contra
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7/9/2012 10:06:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Social conservatives as we know love to blame problems, especially economic problems, but more importantly blaming liberals for cultural issues, such as the amount of profanity, graphics, or content in television shows. Simply, social conservatives love to blame liberals for social/ cultural problems. This is obviously victim-like, and pretty much robs the social conservatives of initiative, since they rely on the "liberals" for their populist cry.

Here is the point though. Social conservatives love to espouse family values, traditional values, and strengthening the "moral fabric" of America, and put social and cultural issues at front in the public debate, getting low income people to vote against their self interests.

Point is though, the social conservatives; you have lost. Yes, you have utterly failed. Gender roles, gay pride, counter culture, drugs references, profanity, all cultural norms which conservatives claim to oppose, have became even more liberal in usage by the media since the conservatives have won in 1968 or 1980, whatever you prefer.

Why has the culture became more open and less uptight? Because the screenwriters and actors answer to the editors and producers, who answer to the CEO's and business heads who answer themselves to Wall Street. It is all about profits. So, the conservatives for the most part love free markets, which create the sexual promiscuity and cultural norms which they claim are caused by liberals, even though it's created by their beloved free markets.

Further, government cannot do much about this. The Supreme Court, US Congress, Planned Parenthood, they don't make American culture. It is the free market, primarily shoved at us through a TV set and computer, which insults our "family values". And the gov't cannot do that much to change this. It is the music that is produced and sold by corporate giants that produce the CD's and music itself. It is very difficult to regulate and protect family values, what are you supposed to do?

You can regulate radio and television so that profanity and content is somewhat censored. This is where many conservatives toss their free market love and favor regulation in the economy, or where other conservatives spew b.s. about how they care about family values, and when given the opportunity to do something about it, do nothing and instead are massive hypocritical jerks.

Gov't cannot regulate culture, but can do limited steps in effecting it, which are mostly symbolic. The milestone of the culture wars, and these are a conservative's words, not mine, was stopping CBS from airing a Reagan drama, deemed somewhat offensive. [1]

In conclusion, social conservatives have several choices at hand. They do love to spew their talk about family values, when in reality, this is just talk, with no real value. Then, their free markets corrupt the culture in ways that the social conservatives would hate. But when given the chance, even the small effects gov't can have on culture, some balk and others don't. Gov't cannot regulate culture, and this is a fact. They take genuine cultural issues that annoy voters, and magnify them up, and make this a large part of their campaigns, even though gov't cannot do anything about it. They end up getting the GOP into office, and while culture continues to annoy voters, the GOP ends up harming the citizens going against many of their self interests, all the while culture goes to the crapper.

And the GOP love to then blame liberals, who even when are nearly eliminated from federal offices (see 2001-2006), culture continues to go against family values. The GOP need to stop bringing up political points that have no relevance to politics, and especially stop making voters angry over issues that distract them from real matters.

They could stop adoring "pure free markets" and acknowledge that reversing cultural decline would require Americans to stop buying this sh*t. And those who don't comply can go to the Libertarian fringe party. But conservatives love bringing up family values as a political issue because the economics of the GOP usually goes against average Americans, with few exceptions.

So, to the social conservatives out there, stop telling us about family values (espoused from your dreamy areas like "Full House") and show us the beef. Because when you show us dreamy things like "family values", we aren't looking at things that matter. Why would people support Rick Santorum if we were more concerned over real political issues?

[1] http://online.wsj.com...
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Frederick53
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7/9/2012 10:19:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/9/2012 10:06:30 PM, Contra wrote:
Social conservatives as we know love to blame problems, especially economic problems, but more importantly blaming liberals for cultural issues, such as the amount of profanity, graphics, or content in television shows. Simply, social conservatives love to blame liberals for social/ cultural problems. This is obviously victim-like, and pretty much robs the social conservatives of initiative, since they rely on the "liberals" for their populist cry.

Here is the point though. Social conservatives love to espouse family values, traditional values, and strengthening the "moral fabric" of America, and put social and cultural issues at front in the public debate, getting low income people to vote against their self interests.

Point is though, the social conservatives; you have lost. Yes, you have utterly failed. Gender roles, gay pride, counter culture, drugs references, profanity, all cultural norms which conservatives claim to oppose, have became even more liberal in usage by the media since the conservatives have won in 1968 or 1980, whatever you prefer.

Why has the culture became more open and less uptight? Because the screenwriters and actors answer to the editors and producers, who answer to the CEO's and business heads who answer themselves to Wall Street. It is all about profits. So, the conservatives for the most part love free markets, which create the sexual promiscuity and cultural norms which they claim are caused by liberals, even though it's created by their beloved free markets.

Further, government cannot do much about this. The Supreme Court, US Congress, Planned Parenthood, they don't make American culture. It is the free market, primarily shoved at us through a TV set and computer, which insults our "family values". And the gov't cannot do that much to change this. It is the music that is produced and sold by corporate giants that produce the CD's and music itself. It is very difficult to regulate and protect family values, what are you supposed to do?

You can regulate radio and television so that profanity and content is somewhat censored. This is where many conservatives toss their free market love and favor regulation in the economy, or where other conservatives spew b.s. about how they care about family values, and when given the opportunity to do something about it, do nothing and instead are massive hypocritical jerks.

Gov't cannot regulate culture, but can do limited steps in effecting it, which are mostly symbolic. The milestone of the culture wars, and these are a conservative's words, not mine, was stopping CBS from airing a Reagan drama, deemed somewhat offensive. [1]

In conclusion, social conservatives have several choices at hand. They do love to spew their talk about family values, when in reality, this is just talk, with no real value. Then, their free markets corrupt the culture in ways that the social conservatives would hate. But when given the chance, even the small effects gov't can have on culture, some balk and others don't. Gov't cannot regulate culture, and this is a fact. They take genuine cultural issues that annoy voters, and magnify them up, and make this a large part of their campaigns, even though gov't cannot do anything about it. They end up getting the GOP into office, and while culture continues to annoy voters, the GOP ends up harming the citizens going against many of their self interests, all the while culture goes to the crapper.

And the GOP love to then blame liberals, who even when are nearly eliminated from federal offices (see 2001-2006), culture continues to go against family values. The GOP need to stop bringing up political points that have no relevance to politics, and especially stop making voters angry over issues that distract them from real matters.

They could stop adoring "pure free markets" and acknowledge that reversing cultural decline would require Americans to stop buying this sh*t. And those who don't comply can go to the Libertarian fringe party. But conservatives love bringing up family values as a political issue because the economics of the GOP usually goes against average Americans, with few exceptions.

So, to the social conservatives out there, stop telling us about family values (espoused from your dreamy areas like "Full House") and show us the beef. Because when you show us dreamy things like "family values", we aren't looking at things that matter. Why would people support Rick Santorum if we were more concerned over real political issues?


[1] http://online.wsj.com...

I think that Republicans in general have realized this, which is why there has recently been a massive shift from neo-conservatism to right wing libertarianism in the Republican party.
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Stephen_Hawkins
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7/10/2012 1:54:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/9/2012 10:19:06 PM, Frederick53 wrote:
At 7/9/2012 10:06:30 PM, Contra wrote:
Social conservatives as we know love to blame problems, especially economic problems, but more importantly blaming liberals for cultural issues, such as the amount of profanity, graphics, or content in television shows. Simply, social conservatives love to blame liberals for social/ cultural problems. This is obviously victim-like, and pretty much robs the social conservatives of initiative, since they rely on the "liberals" for their populist cry.

Here is the point though. Social conservatives love to espouse family values, traditional values, and strengthening the "moral fabric" of America, and put social and cultural issues at front in the public debate, getting low income people to vote against their self interests.

Point is though, the social conservatives; you have lost. Yes, you have utterly failed. Gender roles, gay pride, counter culture, drugs references, profanity, all cultural norms which conservatives claim to oppose, have became even more liberal in usage by the media since the conservatives have won in 1968 or 1980, whatever you prefer.

Why has the culture became more open and less uptight? Because the screenwriters and actors answer to the editors and producers, who answer to the CEO's and business heads who answer themselves to Wall Street. It is all about profits. So, the conservatives for the most part love free markets, which create the sexual promiscuity and cultural norms which they claim are caused by liberals, even though it's created by their beloved free markets.

Further, government cannot do much about this. The Supreme Court, US Congress, Planned Parenthood, they don't make American culture. It is the free market, primarily shoved at us through a TV set and computer, which insults our "family values". And the gov't cannot do that much to change this. It is the music that is produced and sold by corporate giants that produce the CD's and music itself. It is very difficult to regulate and protect family values, what are you supposed to do?

You can regulate radio and television so that profanity and content is somewhat censored. This is where many conservatives toss their free market love and favor regulation in the economy, or where other conservatives spew b.s. about how they care about family values, and when given the opportunity to do something about it, do nothing and instead are massive hypocritical jerks.

Gov't cannot regulate culture, but can do limited steps in effecting it, which are mostly symbolic. The milestone of the culture wars, and these are a conservative's words, not mine, was stopping CBS from airing a Reagan drama, deemed somewhat offensive. [1]

In conclusion, social conservatives have several choices at hand. They do love to spew their talk about family values, when in reality, this is just talk, with no real value. Then, their free markets corrupt the culture in ways that the social conservatives would hate. But when given the chance, even the small effects gov't can have on culture, some balk and others don't. Gov't cannot regulate culture, and this is a fact. They take genuine cultural issues that annoy voters, and magnify them up, and make this a large part of their campaigns, even though gov't cannot do anything about it. They end up getting the GOP into office, and while culture continues to annoy voters, the GOP ends up harming the citizens going against many of their self interests, all the while culture goes to the crapper.

And the GOP love to then blame liberals, who even when are nearly eliminated from federal offices (see 2001-2006), culture continues to go against family values. The GOP need to stop bringing up political points that have no relevance to politics, and especially stop making voters angry over issues that distract them from real matters.

They could stop adoring "pure free markets" and acknowledge that reversing cultural decline would require Americans to stop buying this sh*t. And those who don't comply can go to the Libertarian fringe party. But conservatives love bringing up family values as a political issue because the economics of the GOP usually goes against average Americans, with few exceptions.

So, to the social conservatives out there, stop telling us about family values (espoused from your dreamy areas like "Full House") and show us the beef. Because when you show us dreamy things like "family values", we aren't looking at things that matter. Why would people support Rick Santorum if we were more concerned over real political issues?


[1] http://online.wsj.com...

I think that Republicans in general have realized this, which is why there has recently been a massive shift from neo-conservatism to right wing libertarianism in the Republican party.

Actually, the problem is the Republican Party having two factions: the libertarians and the paleoconservatives. The libertarians want family values, the paleoconservatives want to force family values down everyone's throats in a despotic attempt at morality.
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Maikuru
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7/10/2012 2:03:18 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
With rants like that, you're fit to take over for Olbermann.

Seriously, though, this all feels pretty petty.
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Wallstreetatheist
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7/10/2012 4:13:29 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/10/2012 2:03:18 AM, Maikuru wrote:
With rants like that, you're fit to take over for Olbermann.

Seriously, though, this all feels pretty petty.

+1

What else did you expect besides bipartisan hackery? It's like it's a sports game some time: GO DEMS, GO REPS!
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TheOrator
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7/10/2012 8:18:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Would you mind defining "Social Conservatives" for me? I consider myself libertarian, but I don't focus around "family values" like someone posted above, I focus around individual liberties and the right to keep the government from interfering with them.
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16kadams
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7/10/2012 10:04:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I sadly agree, America is becoming savage.
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Lordknukle
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7/10/2012 10:19:41 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/10/2012 1:54:08 AM, Stephen_Hawkins
Actually, the problem is the Republican Party having two factions: the libertarians and the paleoconservatives. The libertarians want family values, the paleoconservatives want to force family values down everyone's throats in a despotic attempt at morality.

lol wut? I need to buy you a dictionary for your birthday.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Lordknukle
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7/10/2012 10:22:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
The title's grammatical error scares me

OT: You are completely right in the fact that social "conservatives" have lost the culture war. However, I think that you ought to get away from the "society does this so it ought to be right" mentality. Public opinion does not dictator virtue or moral principle.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
socialpinko
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7/10/2012 10:30:13 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/10/2012 10:19:41 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 7/10/2012 1:54:08 AM, Stephen_Hawkins
Actually, the problem is the Republican Party having two factions: the libertarians and the paleoconservatives. The libertarians want family values, the paleoconservatives want to force family values down everyone's throats in a despotic attempt at morality.

lol wut? I need to buy you a dictionary for your birthday.

Libertarians are divided between social conservatives and boss libertines. It's sorta totally wrong to characterize all libertarians as having the same social values since libertarianism is purely a view on the nature of government power.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
socialpinko
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7/10/2012 10:30:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/10/2012 10:22:34 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
The title's grammatical error scares me

OT: You are completely right in the fact that social "conservatives" have lost the culture war. However, I think that you ought to get away from the "society does this so it ought to be right" mentality. Public opinion does not dictator virtue or moral principle.

It's like I don't even know you anymore.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
socialpinko
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7/10/2012 10:31:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/10/2012 10:04:11 AM, 16kadams wrote:
I sadly agree, America is becoming savage.

I know. Basterd savages using curse words and having sex before getting married. It's like we're barbarians or something!
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
Lordknukle
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7/10/2012 10:42:01 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/10/2012 10:30:13 AM, socialpinko wrote:
At 7/10/2012 10:19:41 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 7/10/2012 1:54:08 AM, Stephen_Hawkins
Actually, the problem is the Republican Party having two factions: the libertarians and the paleoconservatives. The libertarians want family values, the paleoconservatives want to force family values down everyone's throats in a despotic attempt at morality.

lol wut? I need to buy you a dictionary for your birthday.

Libertarians are divided between social conservatives and boss libertines. It's sorta totally wrong to characterize all libertarians as having the same social values since libertarianism is purely a view on the nature of government power.

Libertarianism is a view on governments policy regarding economic and social issues. They state that the government has no authority to implement extensive economic programs or violate the civil liberties of others. A person cannot support State discrimination of marriage and be libertarian at the same time (that includes incest and polygamy).
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
socialpinko
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7/10/2012 10:51:18 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/10/2012 10:42:01 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 7/10/2012 10:30:13 AM, socialpinko wrote:
At 7/10/2012 10:19:41 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 7/10/2012 1:54:08 AM, Stephen_Hawkins
Actually, the problem is the Republican Party having two factions: the libertarians and the paleoconservatives. The libertarians want family values, the paleoconservatives want to force family values down everyone's throats in a despotic attempt at morality.

lol wut? I need to buy you a dictionary for your birthday.

Libertarians are divided between social conservatives and boss libertines. It's sorta totally wrong to characterize all libertarians as having the same social values since libertarianism is purely a view on the nature of government power.

Libertarianism is a view on governments policy regarding economic and social issues. They state that the government has no authority to implement extensive economic programs or violate the civil liberties of others. A person cannot support State discrimination of marriage and be libertarian at the same time (that includes incest and polygamy).

That doesn't preclude one from being both a social conservative and a libertarian though. Someone can hold personal views regarding the morality or immorality of being a homosexual, doing drugs, etc. But it's a different matter entirely whether they think a government has a right to stop such activities.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
Contra
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7/10/2012 11:42:17 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/10/2012 4:13:29 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 7/10/2012 2:03:18 AM, Maikuru wrote:
With rants like that, you're fit to take over for Olbermann.

Seriously, though, this all feels pretty petty.

+1

What else did you expect besides bipartisan hackery? It's like it's a sports game some time: GO DEMS, GO REPS!

I wanted to get out my rage.

At 7/10/2012 8:18:53 AM, TheOrator wrote:
Would you mind defining "Social Conservatives" for me? I consider myself libertarian, but I don't focus around "family values" like someone posted above, I focus around individual liberties and the right to keep the government from interfering with them.

Libertarians believe in civil liberties, equal rights, and economic freedom, with limited gov't interference in ways that only create a minimal framework for the market to work. Social conservatives win usually by trashing "those darn liberals" for all social problems, and in return offer "family values" as solutions, even though free markets cause the decline of culture, and gov't cannot impose family values.

At 7/10/2012 10:22:34 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
The title's grammatical error scares me

No I put it that way specifically. The vast majority of people, "we" have won because people need to get it through their heads that you cannot pursue "family values" as a gov't policy. So, we have won, while the conservatives, who are naturally the sidearm of the political and economic elite, are the far minority. So, the 99% have won against the far minority, who have lost. But I made it in terms of "we as 99% have won", and you the 1% have lost. Plus I was tired.

OT: You are completely right in the fact that social "conservatives" have lost the culture war. However, I think that you ought to get away from the "society does this so it ought to be right" mentality. Public opinion does not dictator virtue or moral principle.

Could you expand please.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Lordknukle
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7/10/2012 5:33:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
1. "Won" is in the past tense. "Lose" is in the future tense. Hence, grammatical error.

2. Basically, I was saying that it's flawed to assume that simply if society accepts something to be true or not true (family values), it does not mean that object is in fact true or not true. It is our own perception of reality (which is objective) that makes the particular thing subjective. Neither side is ever correct because you are simply perceiving reality in a different way.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
OberHerr
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7/10/2012 6:05:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Nah nah nah nah nah!
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Contra
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7/10/2012 6:06:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/10/2012 5:33:48 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
1. "Won" is in the past tense. "Lose" is in the future tense. Hence, grammatical error.

So I had a grammatical error when I was very tired. My bad. English wasn't my strongest subject anyway.

2. Basically, I was saying that it's flawed to assume that simply if society accepts something to be true or not true (family values), it does not mean that object is in fact true or not true. It is our own perception of reality (which is objective) that makes the particular thing subjective. Neither side is ever correct because you are simply perceiving reality in a different way.

Okay. At least we agree that the cultural war is bs. Even though this may not be how some people see it, most people do.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan