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Whigs, Tories, Liberals, and Conservatives

DanT
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7/11/2012 2:36:55 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
US and British politics are closely linked. The US was founded due to British politics.

In 18th century British politics there were 2 main parties;

Whigs who individualists who favored a strong Parliament
and
Tories where traditionalists who favored a strong King

Whigs believed a strong legislature was needed to prevent the executive branch from becoming too powerful.
Tories believed a strong executive was needed to prevent the legislative branch from becoming too powerful.

In 1725 the Whig party split into Patriot Whigs who pushed for local governance, and opposed foreign rulers and occupation. Another schism was the Radical Whigs who pushed for republican reforms, and and pushed for ideals such as no taxation without representation. The US revolution was a combination of these 2 Whig philosophies.
Those who opposed the US evolution were referred to as Tories, or Royalists. The Whigs in the British Parliament was also sympathetic to the American colonists.

The US constitution reflects this political origin by granting congress the power "To make Rules for the Government".

After the revolution the founders wished to eliminate political parties, in order to prevent a political divide within the country.

US Political evolution

Many Americans believed that Washington and Hamilton were wandering away from the ideals of the American revolution, and moving towards a presidential monarchy.

Those who opposed Washington were known as the Anti-Administration party, and those who agreed with Washington were known as the Pro-Administration Party.

As early as 1793 a number of like-minded Anti-Administration societies started popping up. They had a variety of names using terms such as, "Democratic," "Republican," "True Republican," "Constitutional," "United Freeman," "Patriotic," and "Political."

These groups were united under Thomas Jefferson and James Madison's Republican Party. To counter the new Republican Party Hamilton created the Federalist Party. The Federalist Party was in favor of American Nationalism, and Federalism. The Republican Party was in favor of Congressional superiority, limited government and State's rights. The Federalists were generally pro-British and the Republicans were generally pro-French.

Eventually the Federalist party was eclipsed by the Republican party, leaving only the Republicans. The Republicans were than split between Jackson's men and Adam's men. Jackson's men favored state's rights, Presidential superiority, and Egalitarianism. Adam's men favored American Nationalism and Congressional superiority. Jackson's men wanted to take power away from congress and give it to the average voters; he also wanted to eliminate the electoral system.

Adam's men would later become the National Republican Party, and Jackson's men would become the Democratic Party.

The National Republican Party later changed it's name to the Whig Party.

The American Whig Party than split between the Republican Party and the Whig Party; the Republicans pushed for more republican ideals such as civic virtue. The Republican Party was also a abolitionist Party.

During the civil War the Democratic Party split between Northern abolitionist Democrats and southern pro-slavery Democrats.
Some Northern Democrats merged with the Republican Party to form the National Union Party. The Pro-Union Party was for American Nationalism, and abolitionism.

After the Civil War the Democratic Party remained relatively the same, but was influenced by the spread of populism aka anti-elitism.
The Republican Party was split between republicans and liberal-republicans.
The Liberal Republicans opposed corruption, and believed that the Federal Government should not be popping up political regimes in the south.

Through the Liberal Republicans Democrats converted to the Republican party and Republicans converted to the Democratic Party.

This lead some Republicans to start believing more in states rights. This also lead some Democrats to become more Nationalist. The populist movement also influenced both the Republican and Democratic Party. The Populists within the Republican Party eventually split to form their own Bull Moose (New Nationalist) Party. The Bull Moose Party than merged into the Democratic Party.

Now the Republican part stands for states rights, civic virtue, and congressional dominance. The democratic party stands for American-Nationalism, progressivism, Egalitarianism, and presidential dominance.

British Political evolution

Prime Minister William Pitt started a New Pro-Free Market, pro-Parliament faction of the Tory Party called Pittites. They maintained traditionalist values of the Tories, but adopted the Whig philosophies of binding the King by law, and free market economics.

Later another form of Tory arose called the Canningnites after Prime Minister Canning. The Canningnites favored Catholic emancipation and freer markets.

Prime Minister Peel transformed the Tory Party into the Conservative Party, which was reactionary; the conservatives reformed the bad while conserving the good. The Conservative party did not put an emphasis on Royal or Parliamentary power, but rather on tradition.

The Conservative Party later split over the subject of Free Trade. Protectionist Conservatives who opposed free trade went back to being called Tories.

Radicals also appeared during the French and American revolution. They proposed social and political various reforms. Including reforming Parliament.

The Peelites eventually joined the radicals and Whigs to form the liberal party. The views of the liberal party was primarily influenced by the Whigs, favoring individualism, free trade, and minarchism.

One the Liberal Party was formed the Tories went back to being called Conservatives.
Tories are traditional conservatives while Peelites are more liberal conservative due to their value of free trade, over protectionism.

Eventually the Peelites took primary control of the liberal party, leading many Whigs to split from the liberal party and form the liberal unionist party. The key difference between the two parties was hat the liberal unionists opposed Irish independence, and liberals opposed the acts of union. Over time the liberal unionists adopted protectionist ideologies, eventually merging with the conservative party.

The Liberal party than became more heavily influenced by the radicals in the early 20th century.

Conclusion

Whigism = Legislative dominance
Toryism = Executive dominance
Liberalism = Individualism
Conservatism = Traditionalism
Radicalism = Reformism
Republicanism = Rule of Law
Democratism = Majority Rule
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
16kadams
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7/11/2012 8:40:04 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
So would you consider the republican party not conservative, historically, but right leaning?
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DanT
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7/11/2012 2:28:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 8:40:04 AM, 16kadams wrote:
So would you consider the republican party not conservative, historically, but right leaning?

Republicans may find common ground with Liberals, Whigs, and Conservatives
Democrats may find common ground with radicals, conservatives, liberals, and Tories.

Tories may find common ground with conservatives, and unionists.
Whigs may find common ground with liberals, radicals, and confederates

Federalists may find common ground with unionists, conservatives, and liberals
Unionists may find common ground with conservatives, and Tories
Confederates may find common ground with radicals, liberals, and Whigs

The parties I mentioned can be separated into the following groups.

Constitution
Sovereignty of the state
Federalism = Shared Sovereignty
Unionism = Centralization
Confederatism = State rights
Sovereignty of the state's branches
Whigism = Legislative dominance
Toryism = Executive dominance
Sovereignty over the State
Republicanism = Rule of Law
Democratism = Majority Rule

Policy of the State
Left vs Right
Conservatism = Traditionalism
Radicalism = Reformism
Individualism vs Collectivism
Liberalism = Individualism

Federalists
If the government is a confederation federalists would push for more centralization.
If the government is a unitary state federalists would push for state rights.
If the government is a federation the federalists would push for a stronger federal government.

Unionists
If the government is a federation unionists would push for complete centralization.
If the government is a confederation unionists would push for establishing a central government.
If a state is seceding than unionists would push for maintaining the union.

Confederates
If the government is a federation or union state confederates may push for forming a confederation.
Confederates may also believe member states hold the right to secede from a union state.

Whigs
Whigs believe that the legislature should constrain the executive with laws.
Whigs believe in individual liberty

Tories
Tories believe that the executive should constrain the legislature, and maintain order within the government.

Republicans
Republicans believe that the government (all 3 branches) should be restrained by a constitution, and by laws passed by the legislature.
Republicans believe every branch of government should be kept in check.
Republicans believe in a Representative legislature.
Republicans believe in a electoral college to safe guard against mob rule.

Democrats
Democrats believe in increasing suffrage.
Democrats believe that laws should be passed by a direct vote rather than a government legislature.
Democrats are against electoral colleges
Democrats believe majority is right

Conservatives
Conservatives believe in preserving tradition.
Conservatives believe in preserving the status quo
Conservatives believe in preserving the government
Conservatives believe in intersecting spheres of loyalty
Conservatives believe in reactionary politics

Radicals
Radicals believe in creating a better future
Radicals believe in bettering societal conditions.
Radicals believe in reforming the government
Radicals believe in preventative politics

Liberals
Liberals believe in free(r) markes
Liberals believe in individual liberty
Liberals believe in a limited government
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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7/11/2012 2:35:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
DanT, are you taking a class on political science or something? Cause this is impressive.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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7/11/2012 2:36:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 2:35:00 PM, Contra wrote:
DanT, are you taking a class on political science or something? Cause this is impressive.

It's his thing.
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16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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7/11/2012 4:59:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 2:28:12 PM, DanT wrote:
At 7/11/2012 8:40:04 AM, 16kadams wrote:
So would you consider the republican party not conservative, historically, but right leaning?


Republicans may find common ground with Liberals, Whigs, and Conservatives
Democrats may find common ground with radicals, conservatives, liberals, and Tories.

Tories may find common ground with conservatives, and unionists.
Whigs may find common ground with liberals, radicals, and confederates

Federalists may find common ground with unionists, conservatives, and liberals
Unionists may find common ground with conservatives, and Tories
Confederates may find common ground with radicals, liberals, and Whigs


The parties I mentioned can be separated into the following groups.

Constitution
Sovereignty of the state
Federalism = Shared Sovereignty
Unionism = Centralization
Confederatism = State rights
Sovereignty of the state's branches
Whigism = Legislative dominance
Toryism = Executive dominance
Sovereignty over the State
Republicanism = Rule of Law
Democratism = Majority Rule

Policy of the State
Left vs Right
Conservatism = Traditionalism
Radicalism = Reformism
Individualism vs Collectivism
Liberalism = Individualism

Federalists
If the government is a confederation federalists would push for more centralization.
If the government is a unitary state federalists would push for state rights.
If the government is a federation the federalists would push for a stronger federal government.

Unionists
If the government is a federation unionists would push for complete centralization.
If the government is a confederation unionists would push for establishing a central government.
If a state is seceding than unionists would push for maintaining the union.

Confederates
If the government is a federation or union state confederates may push for forming a confederation.
Confederates may also believe member states hold the right to secede from a union state.

Whigs
Whigs believe that the legislature should constrain the executive with laws.
Whigs believe in individual liberty

Tories
Tories believe that the executive should constrain the legislature, and maintain order within the government.

Republicans
Republicans believe that the government (all 3 branches) should be restrained by a constitution, and by laws passed by the legislature.
Republicans believe every branch of government should be kept in check.
Republicans believe in a Representative legislature.
Republicans believe in a electoral college to safe guard against mob rule.

Democrats
Democrats believe in increasing suffrage.
Democrats believe that laws should be passed by a direct vote rather than a government legislature.
Democrats are against electoral colleges
Democrats believe majority is right

Conservatives
Conservatives believe in preserving tradition.
Conservatives believe in preserving the status quo
Conservatives believe in preserving the government
Conservatives believe in intersecting spheres of loyalty
Conservatives believe in reactionary politics

Radicals
Radicals believe in creating a better future
Radicals believe in bettering societal conditions.
Radicals believe in reforming the government
Radicals believe in preventative politics

Liberals
Liberals believe in free(r) markes

Not modern ones :P

Liberals believe in individual liberty
Liberals believe in a limited government
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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7/11/2012 5:16:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
16k, he is talking about classic liberals, not social liberals.

This reaffirms my thinking that I am indeed a Progressive Democrat. Radical — not really. I think that Santorum is more radical than me.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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7/11/2012 5:31:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
From a Brit perspective, essentially, this is a severe generalisation of the Whigs and Tory parties to compare to a generalisation of the American parties, well, my American politics isn't great, but the idea of Whiggery being for stopping executive power being too strong is a slap in the face of PM Walpole. Further, the free market nature of the Tory split wasn't really that: essentially, it was the Whigs forming the Liberal party, and the Peelites joining in, which numbered no more than a dozen or so.
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Apollo.11
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7/11/2012 5:36:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 4:59:54 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 7/11/2012 2:28:12 PM, DanT wrote:
Liberals
Liberals believe in free(r) markes

Not modern ones :P
Classical Liberalism is what he was referring to.
Sapere Aude!
Aaronroy
Posts: 749
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7/11/2012 5:53:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 5:16:02 PM, Contra wrote:
16k, he is talking about classic liberals, not social liberals.

Classical liberalism or fiscal liberalism? Well, I would argue that the concept of a free-market is a liberal one; Adam Smith, the author of 'The Wealth of Nations', is widely regarded to be the father of Modern Capitalism (his work was near the dawn of the Industrial revolution, however the terms economics and capitalism didn't exist at the time) and Liberal Economics. He argued that a free market is the most beneficial.
This reaffirms my thinking that I am indeed a Progressive Democrat. Radical — not really. I think that Santorum is more radical than me.
It's not 'radical' in the sense you're thinking of as DanT has elaborated that political radicalism is much more complex than the average Joe's conjecture of it. Reformation is almost always done in ways to improve it, while Santorum wants societal devolution into a theocratic state. Imagine a modern catholic version of colonial-era Massachusetts Bay Colony. That is pretty much what he wants.
turn down for h'what
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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7/11/2012 6:15:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 5:31:31 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
From a Brit perspective, essentially, this is a severe generalisation of the Whigs and Tory parties to compare to a generalisation of the American parties, well, my American politics isn't great, but the idea of Whiggery being for stopping executive power being too strong is a slap in the face of PM Walpole. Further, the free market nature of the Tory split wasn't really that: essentially, it was the Whigs forming the Liberal party, and the Peelites joining in, which numbered no more than a dozen or so.

Well in the British Parliamentary system there is no separation of powers. The Executives are part of Parliament. By executive I am referring to the Monarch who is Head of State. The Tories favored the Royal Prerogative, whereas the Whigs wanted to reduce the influence of the Monarch.The Prime minister is head of Government. The Whigs traditionally believed that the Monarch was confined to the Laws of Parliament,whereas Tories believed the Monarch was above the law being the nation's sovereign.

The Head of Government is the head of the Executive Branch, whereas the Head of State is the figure-head for the government. Both are executive positions. Head of Government is the de facto chief executive, and Head of State is the de jure chief executive.

In the United States we have a separation of Powers. The President is head of state and head of government. The people hold sovereignty in the US not the President. The vice President is the President of the Senate, and the President is the President of the Federation. Seeing as the head of Government is the Head of State in the US, the de facto chief executive is the de jure chief executive.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle