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Lupe Fiasco Calls Obama A Terrorist

stubs
Posts: 1,887
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7/13/2012 12:45:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
This is one of my few post I have ever made on the politics forum, but I wanted to get your guys opinions. This is rather old, but I figured most people on here don't really follow hip hop culture and its influence on how its listeners think about politics. The first video is a music video to a song by Lupe Fiasco in which he says:

"I really think the war on terror is a bunch of bullsh*t
Just a poor excuse for you to use up all your bullets"

"Limbaugh is a racist, Glenn Beck is a racist
Gaza strip was getting bombed, Obama didn't say sh*t"

The whole song is filled with controversial lines especially a few more about the education system:

"Your childs future was the first to go with budget cuts
If you think that hurts then, wait here comes the uppercut
The school was garbage in the first place, that's on the up and up"

You can listen to the rest of the song if you want to hear it.

The second video is an interview Lupe did with Bill O'Reilly.

Would love to hear your opinions.

Thanks
airmax1227
Posts: 13,244
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7/13/2012 1:07:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Lupe Fiasco is entitled to his opinion. Though the opinions of entertainers should generally be taken less seriously than pretty much anyone else, because, 1, they are trying to sell something, and 2, they are far more likely to be surrounded by people who simply agree with them.

I think he's wrong in calling Obama a terrorist, but I'm also not trying to sell records.
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socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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7/13/2012 1:32:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/13/2012 1:07:17 PM, airmax1227 wrote:

I think he's wrong in calling Obama a terrorist,

What do you call murdering innocent civilians with drone missiles?

but I'm also not trying to sell records.

Perhaps it's just me but calling Obama a terrorist doesn't seem like the best marketing scheme. Though it's interesting that you assumed at the get go that Fiasco was being disingenuous without backing it up.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
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: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
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royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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7/13/2012 1:34:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/13/2012 1:32:01 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 7/13/2012 1:07:17 PM, airmax1227 wrote:

I think he's wrong in calling Obama a terrorist,

What do you call murdering innocent civilians with drone missiles?

This
airmax1227
Posts: 13,244
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7/13/2012 1:52:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/13/2012 1:32:01 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 7/13/2012 1:07:17 PM, airmax1227 wrote:

I think he's wrong in calling Obama a terrorist,

What do you call murdering innocent civilians with drone missiles?

I don't believe Obama is intentionally and indiscriminately targeting civilians. If he is then I guess he's a terrorist.


but I'm also not trying to sell records.

Perhaps it's just me but calling Obama a terrorist doesn't seem like the best marketing scheme. Though it's interesting that you assumed at the get go that Fiasco was being disingenuous without backing it up.

Controversy is always a good marketing scheme. I didn't know who this guy was, but now I do. I also don't believe he is being disingenuous, I just have no particular reason to care about his political opinions. I didn't mean that he was just going for shock value to sell records, I just meant in general, that the political opinions of celebrities/entertainers aren't that important to me.
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royalpaladin
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7/13/2012 1:54:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/13/2012 1:52:32 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 7/13/2012 1:32:01 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 7/13/2012 1:07:17 PM, airmax1227 wrote:

I think he's wrong in calling Obama a terrorist,

What do you call murdering innocent civilians with drone missiles?

I don't believe Obama is intentionally and indiscriminately targeting civilians. If he is then I guess he's a terrorist.

Yeah, it just accidentally happens very consistently.

but I'm also not trying to sell records.

Perhaps it's just me but calling Obama a terrorist doesn't seem like the best marketing scheme. Though it's interesting that you assumed at the get go that Fiasco was being disingenuous without backing it up.

Controversy is always a good marketing scheme. I didn't know who this guy was, but now I do. I also don't believe he is being disingenuous, I just have no particular reason to care about his political opinions. I didn't mean that he was just going for shock value to sell records, I just meant in general, that the political opinions of celebrities/entertainers aren't that important to me.
socialpinko
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7/13/2012 2:00:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/13/2012 1:52:32 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 7/13/2012 1:32:01 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 7/13/2012 1:07:17 PM, airmax1227 wrote:

I think he's wrong in calling Obama a terrorist,

What do you call murdering innocent civilians with drone missiles?

I don't believe Obama is intentionally and indiscriminately targeting civilians. If he is then I guess he's a terrorist.

He is and he is.


but I'm also not trying to sell records.

Perhaps it's just me but calling Obama a terrorist doesn't seem like the best marketing scheme. Though it's interesting that you assumed at the get go that Fiasco was being disingenuous without backing it up.

Controversy is always a good marketing scheme. I didn't know who this guy was, but now I do. I also don't believe he is being disingenuous, I just have no particular reason to care about his political opinions. I didn't mean that he was just going for shock value to sell records, I just meant in general, that the political opinions of celebrities/entertainers aren't that important to me.

That's certainly understandable, though dismissing the opinions of an entire group of people (even if it's only generally) has always been a pet peeve of mine.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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7/13/2012 2:04:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/13/2012 1:32:01 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 7/13/2012 1:07:17 PM, airmax1227 wrote:

I think he's wrong in calling Obama a terrorist,

What do you call murdering innocent civilians with drone missiles?

I'm not so much concerned with the justification of those attacks as I am with your selective and random criticism of them. Many presidents have done the same thing and worse (staging coups in foreign countries, puppeting governments). So to blame and dislike a random president for it does nothing to address the real problem.

It would make more sense for you to call presidents or America in general terrorists, than to pick a random one and complain.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
airmax1227
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7/13/2012 2:06:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/13/2012 2:00:32 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 7/13/2012 1:52:32 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 7/13/2012 1:32:01 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 7/13/2012 1:07:17 PM, airmax1227 wrote:

I think he's wrong in calling Obama a terrorist,

What do you call murdering innocent civilians with drone missiles?

I don't believe Obama is intentionally and indiscriminately targeting civilians. If he is then I guess he's a terrorist.

He is and he is.

Then I guess he's a terrorist.


but I'm also not trying to sell records.

Perhaps it's just me but calling Obama a terrorist doesn't seem like the best marketing scheme. Though it's interesting that you assumed at the get go that Fiasco was being disingenuous without backing it up.

Controversy is always a good marketing scheme. I didn't know who this guy was, but now I do. I also don't believe he is being disingenuous, I just have no particular reason to care about his political opinions. I didn't mean that he was just going for shock value to sell records, I just meant in general, that the political opinions of celebrities/entertainers aren't that important to me.

That's certainly understandable, though dismissing the opinions of an entire group of people (even if it's only generally) has always been a pet peeve of mine.

Understood, though I don't mean to dismiss any view of any group. I just mean their opinion doesn't hold any value specifically because they are famous. Our culture seems to glorify celebrity points of view simply because they are celebrities. In my opinion, their celebrity status is likely to make their opinion actually worth less, not more. This is all I'm saying. There are certainly celebrities and entertainers whose point of view is valuable and is backed up with more than just their celebrity status.
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Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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7/13/2012 2:09:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/13/2012 1:52:32 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
I don't believe Obama is intentionally and indiscriminately targeting civilians. If he is then I guess he's a terrorist.

There's a thorny ambiguity here which needs to be resolved. Wikipedia notes that a common theme characterising definitions of terrorism is "the indiscriminate use of violence against noncombatants for the purpose of gaining publicity for a group, cause, or individual". So the question is this: is there a relevant moral difference between actively targeting populations with the intention of destroying combatants when you know that civilians will be killed in the cross-fire, and intentionally targeting and killing civilians? If there isn't, then Obama has initiated terrorist attacks.
socialpinko
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7/13/2012 2:10:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/13/2012 2:04:42 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 7/13/2012 1:32:01 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 7/13/2012 1:07:17 PM, airmax1227 wrote:

I think he's wrong in calling Obama a terrorist,

What do you call murdering innocent civilians with drone missiles?

I'm not so much concerned with the justification of those attacks as I am with your selective and random criticism of them. Many presidents have done the same thing and worse (staging coups in foreign countries, puppeting governments). So to blame and dislike a random president for it does nothing to address the real problem.

It would make more sense for you to call presidents or America in general terrorists, than to pick a random one and complain.

I hope this isn't really your view of me. I thought I've made it clear my opposition to the Presidency and government in general, not just to one person inside the government. The reason that Obama deserves special criticism though is that he is (A) the current placeholder of this position, thus the current administrator of these terrorist policies and (B) he is generally more immune to war-mongering criticism than Republicans presidents (especially Bush).
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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7/13/2012 2:11:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/13/2012 2:09:08 PM, Kinesis wrote:
At 7/13/2012 1:52:32 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
I don't believe Obama is intentionally and indiscriminately targeting civilians. If he is then I guess he's a terrorist.

There's a thorny ambiguity here which needs to be resolved. Wikipedia notes that a common theme characterising definitions of terrorism is "the indiscriminate use of violence against noncombatants for the purpose of gaining publicity for a group, cause, or individual". So the question is this: is there a relevant moral difference between actively targeting populations with the intention of destroying combatants when you know that civilians will be killed in the cross-fire, and intentionally targeting and killing civilians? If there isn't, then Obama has initiated terrorist attacks.

Just war theory states that killing civilians is fine if it's a side-effect of a necessary mission. That's probably the main defense you'll here, that killing civilians is necessary to win or something.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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7/13/2012 2:13:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/13/2012 2:04:42 PM, 000ike wrote:
I'm not so much concerned with the justification of those attacks as I am with your selective and random criticism of them. Many presidents have done the same thing and worse (staging coups in foreign countries, puppeting governments). So to blame and dislike a random president for it does nothing to address the real problem.

It would make more sense for you to call presidents or America in general terrorists, than to pick a random one and complain.

In the interview he said he was not singling out Obama. He said that it included every president before and those that will come after Obama.
GeoLaureate8
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7/13/2012 2:25:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/13/2012 1:07:17 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
Lupe Fiasco is entitled to his opinion. Though the opinions of entertainers should generally be taken less seriously than pretty much anyone else, because, 1, they are trying to sell something,

They're selling music, not opinions.

and 2, they are far more likely to be surrounded by people who simply agree with them.

No reason to conclude that.

I think he's wrong in calling Obama a terrorist, but I'm also not trying to sell records.

Yeah, because all of his black hip hop supporters who also probably are accepting of Obama or in favor of Obama are going to buy a Lupe Fiasco record of him calling the first black President of the United States a fvcking terrorist. Get out.

The things Lupe says both in song and in public are his genuine thoughts. He tends to say unpopular things and a lyrical style that is not typical of mainstream lyrics that sell.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Kinesis
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7/13/2012 2:42:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/13/2012 2:11:39 PM, socialpinko wrote:
Just war theory states that killing civilians is fine if it's a side-effect of a necessary mission. That's probably the main defense you'll here, that killing civilians is necessary to win or something.

Plus, a lot of justifications for the various wars seem end-orientated. Americans rebelling against Britain during the civil war may have caused suffering and loss of life, including that of innocent civilians, at the time: but few people would argue that what they did was immoral. Were the colonies terrorists?
socialpinko
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7/13/2012 2:51:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/13/2012 2:42:22 PM, Kinesis wrote:
At 7/13/2012 2:11:39 PM, socialpinko wrote:
Just war theory states that killing civilians is fine if it's a side-effect of a necessary mission. That's probably the main defense you'll here, that killing civilians is necessary to win or something.

Plus, a lot of justifications for the various wars seem end-orientated. Americans rebelling against Britain during the civil war may have caused suffering and loss of life, including that of innocent civilians, at the time: but few people would argue that what they did was immoral. Were the colonies terrorists?

Probably some of them. How do your schools teach the Revolutionary war in Britain? Like how do you frame it? I know in America its wars are usually framed as being justified. What do general school teachings have to say about American rebellion?
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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7/13/2012 3:01:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/13/2012 2:51:59 PM, socialpinko wrote:
Probably some of them. How do your schools teach the Revolutionary war in Britain? Like how do you frame it? I know in America its wars are usually framed as being justified. What do general school teachings have to say about American rebellion?

Sh!t all. All Romans and the World Wars in my history classes. I learned most of the stuff about the American civil war from this game: http://www.amazon.com... and this TV series: http://www.amazon.com... and also from general references. Pretty famous thing.

My point, though, was that even defensive or obviously justified wars would be classified as acts of terrorism if we define it in terms of acts of war which people know in advance will probably have significant civilian casualties.
Apollo.11
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7/13/2012 5:57:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/13/2012 2:00:32 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 7/13/2012 1:52:32 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 7/13/2012 1:32:01 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 7/13/2012 1:07:17 PM, airmax1227 wrote:

I think he's wrong in calling Obama a terrorist,

What do you call murdering innocent civilians with drone missiles?

I don't believe Obama is intentionally and indiscriminately targeting civilians. If he is then I guess he's a terrorist.

He is and he is.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Sapere Aude!
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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7/14/2012 2:08:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/13/2012 5:57:34 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 7/13/2012 2:00:32 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 7/13/2012 1:52:32 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 7/13/2012 1:32:01 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 7/13/2012 1:07:17 PM, airmax1227 wrote:

I think he's wrong in calling Obama a terrorist,

What do you call murdering innocent civilians with drone missiles?

I don't believe Obama is intentionally and indiscriminately targeting civilians. If he is then I guess he's a terrorist.

He is and he is.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

That is incredibly false. If true you could never be rational in believing a report on the morning news that the winning pick in last nights lottery was a certain number because that is an extraordinary improbable event and therefore you should never believe such a report. In establishing the credibility of an event you must consider more than just the inherent probability of the event. You must also consider the probability of the evidence being just as it is if that event had no taken place. Thus, in the example of the lottery number story. What is the probability that the number would be reported as being won if it had not won? If that is low enough it offsets the probability of the initial event.