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FREEDO
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7/16/2012 4:42:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I've made a thread about this before. Didn't get enough attention. I find Iceland to be an extremely interesting place. The vast majority of people will have no idea why because it's one of the most thoroughly censored stories I've ever run into. Of course, the 6 companies in America that own 96% of all media outlets would hate to have you know about it.

In 2009 Iceland had a revolution. It was peaceful. All members of government resigned. Dozens of bankers and politicians were thrown in jail, including their prime minister. The icelandic people held the world's most public constitutional assembly and adopted a new constitution which makes special note of having a central bank run by the people rather than unaccountable profiteers.

I was just reading over the new constitution myself. It has some very interesting things. For instance, it essentially bans the government from keeping secrets. It also requires certain things the government needs to provide as a social safety net. It bans torture and the death penalty. It bans compulsory labor(slavery) but then goes on, quite specifically, to ban compulsory military service. It makes point to protect the environment. It bans all sorts of discrimination of rights, including those based on sexual orientation. I'm not done reading yet but it seems extremely innovative.

The only critique I have so far is that it seems to have too many exceptions. Sayings things like "this can't happen unless......."

Here it is:
http://stjornlagarad.is...
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
inferno
Posts: 10,576
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7/16/2012 4:56:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/16/2012 4:42:43 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I've made a thread about this before. Didn't get enough attention. I find Iceland to be an extremely interesting place. The vast majority of people will have no idea why because it's one of the most thoroughly censored stories I've ever run into. Of course, the 6 companies in America that own 96% of all media outlets would hate to have you know about it.

In 2009 Iceland had a revolution. It was peaceful. All members of government resigned. Dozens of bankers and politicians were thrown in jail, including their prime minister. The icelandic people held the world's most public constitutional assembly and adopted a new constitution which makes special note of having a central bank run by the people rather than unaccountable profiteers.

I was just reading over the new constitution myself. It has some very interesting things. For instance, it essentially bans the government from keeping secrets. It also requires certain things the government needs to provide as a social safety net. It bans torture and the death penalty. It bans compulsory labor(slavery) but then goes on, quite specifically, to ban compulsory military service. It makes point to protect the environment. It bans all sorts of discrimination of rights, including those based on sexual orientation. I'm not done reading yet but it seems extremely innovative.

The only critique I have so far is that it seems to have too many exceptions. Sayings things like "this can't happen unless......."

Here it is:
http://stjornlagarad.is...

Iceland is the final bastion of a meaningful democracy.
They are independent, and they are the finest example of tradition done
well. It is not blue or red. They are natural. They are the norm.
This might be the most accepting place on the face of the Earth.
And they do appreciate each other, and never allow the outisiders to ruin
what they know as a normal life.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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7/16/2012 4:58:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
That's all fine and dandy for them. I still like our country and the way that the states get to vote for these things individually.

What if I want the death penalty? What if I don't care about the environment? What if I want to run a bank for profit?

I enjoy the freedom to choose and vote for these things on my own.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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7/16/2012 5:00:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
As I continue reading:

Animal rights.

Equal votes. (In case you were unaware, in the US, people like some public officials have votes that are worth as much as 5,000 times of a normal person's vote)

Party proportionalism. (allows smaller third parties into government even though they haven't won majorities)

All Althingi(congress) meetings must be done in public.

No bill can be approved until it's been aloud twice.

A bunch of committees that investigate the government.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
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7/16/2012 5:02:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/16/2012 4:58:16 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
That's all fine and dandy for them. I still like our country and the way that the states get to vote for these things individually.

What if I want the death penalty? What if I don't care about the environment? What if I want to run a bank for profit?

I enjoy the freedom to choose and vote for these things on my own.

You're absolutely right.
I for one would like the right to rape and murder people.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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7/16/2012 5:02:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/16/2012 4:58:16 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
That's all fine and dandy for them. I still like our country and the way that the states get to vote for these things individually.

What if I want the death penalty? What if I don't care about the environment? What if I want to run a bank for profit?

I enjoy the freedom to choose and vote for these things on my own.
Think as Iceland as a single state republic. Federal or not, by wanting the death penalty, you are a dissenter from the majority and so your views would be ignored and punished, should you act on them, by their benevolent tyranny.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
FREEDO
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7/16/2012 5:03:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/16/2012 5:02:03 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/16/2012 4:58:16 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
That's all fine and dandy for them. I still like our country and the way that the states get to vote for these things individually.

What if I want the death penalty? What if I don't care about the environment? What if I want to run a bank for profit?

I enjoy the freedom to choose and vote for these things on my own.

You're absolutely right.
I for one would like the right to rape and murder people.

And to be clear, it doesn't outlaw running banks for profit. Just not the central bank, nor be run in any way by people external to the government.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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7/16/2012 5:04:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/16/2012 5:02:03 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/16/2012 4:58:16 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
That's all fine and dandy for them. I still like our country and the way that the states get to vote for these things individually.

What if I want the death penalty? What if I don't care about the environment? What if I want to run a bank for profit?

I enjoy the freedom to choose and vote for these things on my own.

You're absolutely right.
I for one would like the right to rape and murder people.

Grand, the point is in the US I can vote on individual issues that vary by state. Some states have death penalty, some states have stricter environmental protection. I like this. This new Icelandic government sounds to restrictive but that's just my opinion.
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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7/16/2012 5:04:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/16/2012 5:02:03 PM, FREEDO wrote:

You're absolutely right.
I for one would like the right to rape and murder people.
You know the difference between natural and wild rights. The non-aggression principle and such. The right to rape is different to the right to desire profit.

You've been around libertarians for too long to be that dim, FREEDO.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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7/16/2012 5:06:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/16/2012 5:04:09 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 7/16/2012 5:02:03 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/16/2012 4:58:16 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
That's all fine and dandy for them. I still like our country and the way that the states get to vote for these things individually.

What if I want the death penalty? What if I don't care about the environment? What if I want to run a bank for profit?

I enjoy the freedom to choose and vote for these things on my own.

You're absolutely right.
I for one would like the right to rape and murder people.

Grand, the point is in the US I can vote on individual issues that vary by state. Some states have death penalty, some states have stricter environmental protection. I like this. This new Icelandic government sounds to restrictive but that's just my opinion.

Are you completely missing out on the fact that they wrote this constitution themselves? And that it actually allows them to have a say in government policies, unlike America?
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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7/16/2012 5:06:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/16/2012 5:03:51 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/16/2012 5:02:03 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/16/2012 4:58:16 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
That's all fine and dandy for them. I still like our country and the way that the states get to vote for these things individually.

What if I want the death penalty? What if I don't care about the environment? What if I want to run a bank for profit?

I enjoy the freedom to choose and vote for these things on my own.

You're absolutely right.
I for one would like the right to rape and murder people.

And to be clear, it doesn't outlaw running banks for profit. Just not the central bank, nor be run in any way by people external to the government.

The Federal Reserve isn't run for profit, how is this system different or better?
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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7/16/2012 5:10:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/16/2012 4:42:43 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I've made a thread about this before. Didn't get enough attention. I find Iceland to be an extremely interesting place. The vast majority of people will have no idea why because it's one of the most thoroughly censored stories I've ever run into. Of course, the 6 companies in America that own 96% of all media outlets would hate to have you know about it.

In 2009 Iceland had a revolution. It was peaceful. All members of government resigned. Dozens of bankers and politicians were thrown in jail, including their prime minister. The icelandic people held the world's most public constitutional assembly and adopted a new constitution which makes special note of having a central bank run by the people rather than unaccountable profiteers.

I was just reading over the new constitution myself. It has some very interesting things. For instance, it essentially bans the government from keeping secrets. It also requires certain things the government needs to provide as a social safety net. It bans torture and the death penalty. It bans compulsory labor(slavery) but then goes on, quite specifically, to ban compulsory military service. It makes point to protect the environment. It bans all sorts of discrimination of rights, including those based on sexual orientation. I'm not done reading yet but it seems extremely innovative.

The only critique I have so far is that it seems to have too many exceptions. Sayings things like "this can't happen unless......."

Here it is:
http://stjornlagarad.is...

I thought your only complaint would be that it doesn't name FREEDO as dictator...

Or, are you behind the scenes of this 'public', 'peaceful' revolution?
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
FREEDO
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7/16/2012 5:11:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/16/2012 5:06:37 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
The Federal Reserve isn't run for profit, how is this system different or better?

Yes. It is sort of is.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
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7/16/2012 5:12:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/16/2012 5:10:54 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
I thought your only complaint would be that it doesn't name FREEDO as dictator...

Or, are you behind the scenes of this 'public', 'peaceful' revolution?

Oberr. Dragging away is required.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
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7/16/2012 5:16:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
More things as I read:

National referendum. Whenever a petition is put forward having 10% of voters against a law being passed, the law will go to a national vote.

10% of voters may also present their own bill to Althingi.

Only the public can pay the president.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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7/16/2012 6:10:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/16/2012 5:11:47 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/16/2012 5:06:37 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
The Federal Reserve isn't run for profit, how is this system different or better?

Yes. It is sort of is.

It "sort of" is? Explain. Source and quote please.
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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7/16/2012 6:22:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/16/2012 5:11:47 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/16/2012 5:06:37 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
The Federal Reserve isn't run for profit, how is this system different or better?

Yes. It is sort of is.

http://www.publiceye.org...
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

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Frederick53
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7/16/2012 6:25:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
That's fantastic.
In 1975, the Second Vietnam War began -1Historygenius

Like no wonder that indian dude rejected you.- Darkkermit to royalpaladin

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Equal opportunity exists, so there is no problem- EvanK
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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7/17/2012 2:30:38 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/16/2012 6:22:02 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 7/16/2012 5:11:47 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/16/2012 5:06:37 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
The Federal Reserve isn't run for profit, how is this system different or better?

Yes. It is sort of is.

http://www.publiceye.org...

I've read that article before. And others like it. Problem is, it's bullshit.

Firstly, this is not a reliable source. It's a self-described political think tank that advances certain causes. Progressive ones at that, so I don't know why any conservative would cling to it's data on this issue.

It's description of the structure of the bank is accurate, as far as I'm aware. It points out that the assertion "the Fed is privately owned" is correct. It's share holders are other smaller banks. Which is funny because the official federal reserve site swears that it's not a private entity when it clearly is. It does have a "board of governors" who are appointed by the president. All of whom are wallstreet insiders anyway so that's not saying much.

The article then attempts to explain how, even though it's a private institution, it does not make a profit. Here is the fact: we don't know this. Why? Because the article fails to mention that the Federal Reserve does not disclose it's financial records. It's secret. Yes, the official theory and statement from the Federal Reserve itself is that all of it's profit is turned over to the Treasury. The huge problem with that is that the Fed is completely unaccountable since we can't see what's actually happening.

To CP, I'm sorry, it's true, I can't provide any source showing that the Fed keeps their profit. But neither can any source be provided which shows that they give it all away. That's why there's a movement to "audit the Fed". So we can finally find out the truth, or rather, expose it.

So my case is based on common sense. The Fed is not a charity. It has employees who don't work for free. How much it pays them? We don't know. We do know for a fact, as the article points out, that it obtains revenue from interest. Afterall, every dollar in circulation is technically owed to the bank. How much it makes is a mystery. So, basically, those who say it doesn't make a profit are just expecting us to believe that, without any accountability, there is no corruption going on here at all and they are paying up their fair full amount to the Treasury.

I call bullshit.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
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7/17/2012 2:37:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Getting back to Iceland...

It's ridiculous to say that Americans have more of a say in their system than Icelanders. Even leaving out all the ways that American democracy is sham, there is the bigger fact that Icelanders have just decided this for themselves. It's practically anarchy at work. They have made their own rules.

Thomas Jefferson once frankly said that the constitution, even if it succeeded in it's intentions, would end up being tyranny. This is because it was written by the wants of people in the past and imposed on those in the future. He went as far to say that there should be periodic revolutions every 20 years.

I can with confidence say that he would approve of Iceland more than America.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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7/17/2012 2:45:52 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/17/2012 2:37:11 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Getting back to Iceland...

It's ridiculous to say that Americans have more of a say in their system than Icelanders. Even leaving out all the ways that American democracy is sham, there is the bigger fact that Icelanders have just decided this for themselves. It's practically anarchy at work. They have made their own rules.

Thomas Jefferson once frankly said that the constitution, even if it succeeded in it's intentions, would end up being tyranny. This is because it was written by the wants of people in the past and imposed on those in the future. He went as far to say that there should be periodic revolutions every 20 years.

I can with confidence say that he would approve of Iceland more than America.

Iceland has an advantage over us though; they are smaller and not intertwined so much in foreign affairs. If the entire U.S. were just Iowa, it probably would be a lot easier to scrap everything and start anew.
Rob
Wallstreetatheist
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7/17/2012 2:48:44 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
It's also really cold there, and their power is exclusively provided by geothermal energy.
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FREEDO
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7/17/2012 2:53:28 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/17/2012 2:45:52 AM, Lasagna wrote:
Iceland has an advantage over us though; they are smaller and not intertwined so much in foreign affairs. If the entire U.S. were just Iowa, it probably would be a lot easier to scrap everything and start anew.

True dat.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
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7/17/2012 2:55:05 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/17/2012 2:48:44 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
It's also really cold there, and their power is exclusively provided by geothermal energy.

Average temperatures are in the 40s. Not too bad. And I'd say the geothermal is pretty grand thing.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
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7/17/2012 2:57:29 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I was just reading an article where a guy went to Iceland recently, went to one of the hot spring parties and ran into the president and had a normal conversation with no body guards around anywhere. They have basically zero violence so they don't need to worry about it.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
JaxsonRaine
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7/17/2012 3:06:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/17/2012 2:57:29 AM, FREEDO wrote:
I was just reading an article where a guy went to Iceland recently, went to one of the hot spring parties and ran into the president and had a normal conversation with no body guards around anywhere. They have basically zero violence so they don't need to worry about it.

Imagine a world without violence.

Heck, imagine a DDO without violen*Dragged away*
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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7/17/2012 4:46:37 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/17/2012 2:57:29 AM, FREEDO wrote:
I was just reading an article where a guy went to Iceland recently, went to one of the hot spring parties and ran into the president and had a normal conversation with no body guards around anywhere. They have basically zero violence so they don't need to worry about it.

That sounds awesome. The geothermal energy means that they're energy bills are really inexpensive as well. The costs of food are expensive though. Did you read anything about that?
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bossyburrito
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7/17/2012 4:55:40 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/17/2012 3:06:51 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 7/17/2012 2:57:29 AM, FREEDO wrote:
I was just reading an article where a guy went to Iceland recently, went to one of the hot spring parties and ran into the president and had a normal conversation with no body guards around anywhere. They have basically zero violence so they don't need to worry about it.

Imagine a world without violence.

Heck, imagine a DDO without violen*Dragged away*

Imagine all the people...
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
FREEDO
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7/17/2012 5:59:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/17/2012 4:46:37 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 7/17/2012 2:57:29 AM, FREEDO wrote:
I was just reading an article where a guy went to Iceland recently, went to one of the hot spring parties and ran into the president and had a normal conversation with no body guards around anywhere. They have basically zero violence so they don't need to worry about it.

That sounds awesome. The geothermal energy means that they're energy bills are really inexpensive as well. The costs of food are expensive though. Did you read anything about that?

No. Why is that?
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord