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Microsuck
Posts: 1,562
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7/19/2012 3:10:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Obama campaign: ‘Severe consequences' if Romney committed felony with Bain lies

Presumptive Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney may be guilty of federal felony if he lied to the Security and Exchange Commission (SEC) about when he ceded control of Bain Capital, President Barack Obama's campaign suggested on Thursday.

http://www.rawstory.com...

Does anyone believe any of this and is there any evidence that this is true?
Wall of Fail

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JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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7/19/2012 8:02:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/19/2012 3:10:33 PM, Microsuck wrote:
Obama campaign: ‘Severe consequences' if Romney committed felony with Bain lies

Presumptive Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney may be guilty of federal felony if he lied to the Security and Exchange Commission (SEC) about when he ceded control of Bain Capital, President Barack Obama's campaign suggested on Thursday.

http://www.rawstory.com...

Does anyone believe any of this and is there any evidence that this is true?

Oh, I believe this would come from Obama's team. But, as far as I can tell, it's stupid. Romney left Bain to go work on the olympics. He was still CEO, but he didn't show up to work, he didn't make decisions, etc. He was an absentee CEO. The CEO still has to have his name on SEC filings.

Obama's group is just slinging mud, hoping it will stick. Romney's wife was a stay-at-home mom? Hmm, that's an easy job, let's criticize her for it. Oh wait, she took care of her family, while fighting cancer and MS? We didn't mean any harm.

Romney's wife has a dressage horse, what a rich, out-of-touch, elitist. Oh wait, it helps her with MS? We didn't mean any harm.

Romney might have committed a felony. We're not saying he is, we're not looking into it, we're just saying he might be, so that more Americans who don't pay close enough attention won't vote for him. If he didn't commit a felony, we didn't mean any harm.

It's just pathetic. Obama is trying to divert from the issues, because any time he attacks Romney's policies, he ends up making things worse for himself:

Romney cut jobs and wages, and closed factories. He's evil! Well, to be fair, I did that with GM, and everyone praises my name for it, but just try not to notice the similarity.

Romney wants to cut taxes on corporations! He just doesn't understand, financial incentives like that don't stimulate growth. To be fair, I want to give corporations a 10% tax break on any new hiring they do(which will create A MILLION JOBS!), but try not to notice the similarity.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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7/19/2012 8:06:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/19/2012 8:02:36 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 7/19/2012 3:10:33 PM, Microsuck wrote:
Obama campaign: ‘Severe consequences' if Romney committed felony with Bain lies

Presumptive Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney may be guilty of federal felony if he lied to the Security and Exchange Commission (SEC) about when he ceded control of Bain Capital, President Barack Obama's campaign suggested on Thursday.

http://www.rawstory.com...

Does anyone believe any of this and is there any evidence that this is true?

Oh, I believe this would come from Obama's team. But, as far as I can tell, it's stupid. Romney left Bain to go work on the olympics. He was still CEO, but he didn't show up to work, he didn't make decisions, etc. He was an absentee CEO. The CEO still has to have his name on SEC filings.

Obama's group is just slinging mud, hoping it will stick. Romney's wife was a stay-at-home mom? Hmm, that's an easy job, let's criticize her for it. Oh wait, she took care of her family, while fighting cancer and MS? We didn't mean any harm.

Romney's wife has a dressage horse, what a rich, out-of-touch, elitist. Oh wait, it helps her with MS? We didn't mean any harm.

Romney might have committed a felony. We're not saying he is, we're not looking into it, we're just saying he might be, so that more Americans who don't pay close enough attention won't vote for him. If he didn't commit a felony, we didn't mean any harm.

It's just pathetic. Obama is trying to divert from the issues, because any time he attacks Romney's policies, he ends up making things worse for himself:

Romney cut jobs and wages, and closed factories. He's evil! Well, to be fair, I did that with GM, and everyone praises my name for it, but just try not to notice the similarity.

Romney wants to cut taxes on corporations! He just doesn't understand, financial incentives like that don't stimulate growth. To be fair, I want to give corporations a 10% tax break on any new hiring they do(which will create A MILLION JOBS!), but try not to notice the similarity.

Cutting the rate to 25% and ending all loopholes/ deductions? This is what I want for America.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
MrBrooks
Posts: 831
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7/19/2012 8:41:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Cutting the rate to 25% and ending all loopholes/ deductions? This is what I want for America.

Then you'd better vote for Romney.
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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7/19/2012 9:21:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/19/2012 8:41:14 PM, MrBrooks wrote:
Cutting the rate to 25% and ending all loopholes/ deductions? This is what I want for America.

Then you'd better vote for Romney.

Does Romney want to cut loopholes and deductions? I don't think so.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
1Historygenius
Posts: 1,639
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7/19/2012 9:36:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Have no fear everyone, Elephant Watcher explained the whole situation:

"Last month, Barack Obama's campaign essentially abandoned its attack line against Bain Capital, the private equity firm founded by Mitt Romney. The attacks against Bain had fizzled because they were delivered as attacks against private equity firms in general. Prominent Democrats rejected the idea of attacking private equity and, as in the Republican primary, Romney was able to defend himself by trumpeting Bain's successes.

Now the attacks against Bain have returned in a new, more complicated form. The new attacks turned out to be part clever, part foolish, and partially accelerated by an unforced error on Romney's part. Obama's new angle of attack focuses on when precisely Romney "left" Bain. The basic facts are not in dispute; independent fact-checkers and Bain leaders present at the time (including some current Obama supporters) all confirm Romney's timeline: In early 1999, Romney stopped working at Bain and started working full-time to organize the 2002 Olympics. Although Romney's responsibilities at Bain were transferred to other managers, Romney maintained his ownership of the company for a few more years--including the title of CEO. Thus, while Romney was no longer physically present or making managerial decisions, his name continued to appear on SEC filings for the company.

On its own, this timeline has little relevance to anything--and that is where the "clever" portion of the Obama campaign's attacks comes in. Romney's political opponents have always attacked Bain by focusing on Bain's failures, and Romney defended himself by pointing to its greater successes. But Romney has also occasionally defended himself by absolving himself from any bad decisions made by Bain after his departure in early 1999. Now, the Obama campaign points out that Romney was still owner and CEO of the company, and was thus responsible for everything that occurred there.

It is difficult for voters to relate to the idea that someone owns a company but is no longer present. As Obama pointed out, voters think that an owner-CEO must still be responsible for the decisions made by the company. When Romney says he "left" Bain in early 1999, voters expect a more complete break.

The "foolish" part of Obama's attacks came in the form of an overreach: They suggested that if Romney was not the owner and CEO of the company as reported in SEC filings, it would be a felony to falsely report such. No one, including Romney himself, ever disputed that he held onto his ownership interest in Bain for a few years after he went to work for the Olympics in early 1999. Therefore, no one actually believes Romney committed a felony. The charge is extreme to the point of absurdity, and were the Romney campaign ever to suggest that Obama is a felon, they would undoubtedly be accused of racism.

If the Romney campaign released a cogent, convincing written statement explaining this, perhaps the new Bain attacks would have fizzled as well. This is where the "unforced error" portion comes into play. With the facts on their side, the Romney campaign sensed that Obama overreached. They probably felt it was important to hit back hard to show that they are tough--and Romney himself was probably quite offended by the accusations made against him. On Friday, Romney responded by participating in as many TV news interviews as he could, to address the situation.

By jumping directly into the fray, Romney made the new Bain attacks even more prominent in the media than they were before. Since he had not previously participated in many interviews this campaign season, he also appeared to endorse the idea that the timing of his Bain departure is important in some way. The forum was also wrong: By participating in interviews with Obama-supporting journalists, rather than releasing a written statement (or simply appearing for a public statement), he allowed the dynamic to shift: Instead of Romney attacking Obama for his overreach, he allowed the journalists to put him on the defensive as they cross-examined him about Bain.

While the Bain timeline is occasionally used by Romney as a defense to bad Bain decisions made after early 1999, Romney's primary interest in defending the timeline is that it's the truth. However, in the context of Obama's attacks, defending the timeline appears to observers as a way to disassociate himself from Bain. That reinforces Obama's premise that Bain is a weakness rather than an asset. In the past, Romney would defend Bain with a counter-punch focusing on Bain's successes. Defense of a timeline can't involve such a counter-punch; instead, it can only involve the facts about Romney leaving a company but still owning it and having the title of CEO. Again, these are facts to which voters will have great difficulty relating.

Given the lack of controversy about the facts surrounding Romney's timeline, Obama's attacks had little substance. Obama erred by overreaching, but Romney played into Obama's hand through the unforced error of lending weight to the attacks' importance. This may be considered the first time Romney's campaign has made a serious blunder during the general election campaign."
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Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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7/19/2012 9:47:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/19/2012 8:02:36 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 7/19/2012 3:10:33 PM, Microsuck wrote:
Obama campaign: ‘Severe consequences' if Romney committed felony with Bain lies

Presumptive Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney may be guilty of federal felony if he lied to the Security and Exchange Commission (SEC) about when he ceded control of Bain Capital, President Barack Obama's campaign suggested on Thursday.

http://www.rawstory.com...

Does anyone believe any of this and is there any evidence that this is true?

Oh, I believe this would come from Obama's team. But, as far as I can tell, it's stupid. Romney left Bain to go work on the olympics. He was still CEO, but he didn't show up to work, he didn't make decisions, etc. He was an absentee CEO. The CEO still has to have his name on SEC filings.

Right, he stayed as CEO and owner, but had absolutely nothing to do with what the company was doing. Please, one of the most lasting arguments that conservatives use to justify higher pay for CEOs is that even when they go on vacation, they are still working, when the weekend roles around, they are still working, no matter what happens, they work day and night, whatever it takes. But Romney just leaves (while maintaining ownership) and he really expects people to believe he was 100% gone.

Yeah, sure.


Obama's group is just slinging mud, hoping it will stick. Romney's wife was a stay-at-home mom? Hmm, that's an easy job, let's criticize her for it. Oh wait, she took care of her family, while fighting cancer and MS? We didn't mean any harm.

Accept Obama didn't, that was Hilary Rosen.


Romney's wife has a dressage horse, what a rich, out-of-touch, elitist. Oh wait, it helps her with MS? We didn't mean any harm.

He took a $70,000 tax deduction for it. You could easily buy 4 fully trainned dressage horses for that price. So it isn't just for the MS. Besides, a warm blood would not be ideal for that, which is why they are rarely used for hippotherapy.


Romney might have committed a felony. We're not saying he is, we're not looking into it, we're just saying he might be, so that more Americans who don't pay close enough attention won't vote for him. If he didn't commit a felony, we didn't mean any harm.

They should look into it.


It's just pathetic. Obama is trying to divert from the issues, because any time he attacks Romney's policies, he ends up making things worse for himself:

Romney cut jobs and wages, and closed factories. He's evil! Well, to be fair, I did that with GM, and everyone praises my name for it, but just try not to notice the similarity.

Romney wants to cut taxes on corporations! He just doesn't understand, financial incentives like that don't stimulate growth. To be fair, I want to give corporations a 10% tax break on any new hiring they do(which will create A MILLION JOBS!), but try not to notice the similarity.

There is little similarity, but whatever.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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7/20/2012 12:25:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/19/2012 8:06:53 PM, Contra wrote:
Cutting the rate to 25% and ending all loopholes/ deductions? This is what I want for America.

You're not going to get that from Obama. He wants to give a 10% break on new hiring expenses. So if your payroll was $100,000 last year, and is $110,000 this year, you get a $1,000 tax break. Woo-hoo!

Oh, and it's capped at $50,000 for the company, or something like that.

Not to mention, ending all deductions is a very bad idea. You're not going to allow any deductions for expansion, losses, or R&D?
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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7/20/2012 12:29:31 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/19/2012 9:21:13 PM, Contra wrote:
At 7/19/2012 8:41:14 PM, MrBrooks wrote:
Cutting the rate to 25% and ending all loopholes/ deductions? This is what I want for America.

Then you'd better vote for Romney.

Does Romney want to cut loopholes and deductions? I don't think so.

He closed loopholes as Governor, and increased oversight of tax returns to cut down on gaming the code.

Instead of 'thinking so', you could look at his actual tax plan.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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7/20/2012 12:39:09 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/19/2012 9:47:40 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
Right, he stayed as CEO and owner, but had absolutely nothing to do with what the company was doing. Please, one of the most lasting arguments that conservatives use to justify higher pay for CEOs is that even when they go on vacation, they are still working, when the weekend roles around, they are still working, no matter what happens, they work day and night, whatever it takes. But Romney just leaves (while maintaining ownership) and he really expects people to believe he was 100% gone.

Yeah, sure.

You do know that he was a little busy, right? Instead of just assuming, how about you go find proof that Romney was involved. Romney said he had no active role. Bain said he had no active role. So there is primary data saying that he didn't, and...

nothing saying he did.

But you know better, right?

Do you actually think that Romney had time to work at Bain, on top of being President and CEO of the Olympics Committee, and struggling through his wife's MS diagnosis and treatment?

At the Olympics, he oversaw a $1.32 billion budget, 700 employees, and 26,000 volunteers.

So I dare you. Find some proof if you want to call Romney a felon or a liar.

Accept Obama didn't, that was Hilary Rosen.

And the DNC. Notice how I didn't say Obama?

They should look into it.

Ok, look into it. Don't start spewing all over the nation 'Hey, we really don't know, and we don't have any evidence, but Romney might be a felon!'

Do you really think it is OK for the POTUS(it's his group, get over it) to say that his opponent might be a felon, with no evidence? It's pathetic!

There is little similarity, but whatever.

Yeah, whatever. When Obama does it, it's good. When Romney does it, it's bad.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13