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A Tale of Two Jobs Records

JamesMadison
Posts: 381
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7/22/2012 11:53:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Barack Obama and Ronald Reagan don't have a lot in common. But, they do have one thing in common, they both inherited very bad economies. And, they both claimed to have a plan to fix it.

However, that is where the similiarities end. Their approach to fixing the economy diverged radically. For Reagan, he saw free enterprise and entrepeueners as the answer. If you let people keep more of their money, then people will be more productive. Reagan's economic policies took into account the incentives and uncertainty caused by changes. So, he cut marginal tax rates permanently, he slowed down money growth to stop excess inflation, reduced regulations and red tape, and cut domestic spending.

Obama has had quite a different approach. For Obama, free enterprise is the problem. He says that productive workers and successful businesses are too successful and that they need to be taxed and regulated more. He blames all of our problems on too much freedom. He doesn't see incentives or government caused uncertainty as really mattering. So, Obama took the opposite approach. He has raised taxes on the top earners and proposes raising them more. He has added tons of regulation, with plenty more to come. He passed a massive stimulus that massively increased domestic spending. The fed has taken part under massive quantitative easing during his presidencies.

Now, Obama has been in office for three and a half years. And, we can now compare the approaches by looking at the jobs record of Obama so far and compare it to Reagan's at the exact same time in his presidency. First, we look at overall jobs:

Total Job Growth

Reagan (January 1981 to June 1984): +4%
Obama (January 2009 to June 2012): 0%

Under Reagan, employment had grown by 4% by this point. Under Obama, it has seen NO growth.

Okay, but what if we just look at the private sector?:

Total Private Sector Job Growth

Reagan (January 1981 to June 1984): +5%
Obama (January 2009 to June 2012): 0%

Here, the comparison is even more stark. There is 5% growth in private employment under Reagan and NO growth under Obama.

Okay, but to be fair, there is one area where Obama has done better:

Total Federal Government Job Growth

Reagan (January 1981 to June 1984): -1%
Obama (January 2009 to June 2012): +1%

Obama has increased federal government employment by 1% while Reagan REDUCED it by 1%.

So, there you have it, if you want more jobs and more private sector jobs, you take Reagan's approach.

If you want more jobs in the federal government, you take Obama's approach.
As a general rule, you'll find that, when a conservative is talking about policy, history, economics, or something serious, liberals are nowhere to be found. But, as soon as a conservative mentions Obama's birthplace or personal life, liberals are everywhere, only to dissappear again when evidence enters the discussion.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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7/23/2012 12:32:39 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I actually have this site bookmarked now because so many people can't seem to figure it out.

http://data.bls.gov...

Jobs lost in the current collapse - 8.78 million jobs lost
Jobs lost in the 1982 collapse - 2.84 million jobs lost

Comparing the two as equals is one of the dumbest things you can do.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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7/23/2012 12:35:06 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
http://www.debate.org...

This is for people that like to think that the economic situation is all Obama's fault and people shouldn't say Bush's name anymore.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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7/23/2012 12:36:04 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/23/2012 12:32:39 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
I actually have this site bookmarked now because so many people can't seem to figure it out.

http://data.bls.gov...

Jobs lost in the current collapse - 8.78 million jobs lost
Jobs lost in the 1982 collapse - 2.84 million jobs lost

Comparing the two as equals is one of the dumbest things you can do.

http://data.bls.gov...

Here is a corrected link, just check the top option "total nonfarm employment"
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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7/23/2012 12:41:57 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/23/2012 12:35:06 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
http://www.debate.org...

This is for people that like to think that the economic situation is all Obama's fault and people shouldn't say Bush's name anymore.

The Fool: its almost never impossible to completly compare Presidents. Because every body enters with different situation. That is so much causes and effect so so many places from the past the present that are effecting country that A signicant comparison is hard. Even Bush had to deal with the 9/11 New orleans. Lots of sticky situations. It really hard to tell. But I Obama is the best choice Right now. We know that he is Stable. US needs some stablity, lets things blow off. Better for world relations. We (canada) and others trust him. It does like it or not help forgien relations to not have a zealous Christian white guy right now. That would just be asking for more terrorist problem. Just let think chill, Try and get out ot wars. lol
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
JamesMadison
Posts: 381
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7/23/2012 1:02:10 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/23/2012 12:32:39 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
I actually have this site bookmarked now because so many people can't seem to figure it out.

http://data.bls.gov...

Jobs lost in the current collapse - 8.78 million jobs lost
Jobs lost in the 1982 collapse - 2.84 million jobs lost

Comparing the two as equals is one of the dumbest things you can do.

Simple fact is that steep declines are usually followed by strong recoveries. The 1980s recovery was very strong... this recovery has been very weak...

There is a lot of evidence that Obama's policies have caused uncertainty that has contributed to this.
As a general rule, you'll find that, when a conservative is talking about policy, history, economics, or something serious, liberals are nowhere to be found. But, as soon as a conservative mentions Obama's birthplace or personal life, liberals are everywhere, only to dissappear again when evidence enters the discussion.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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7/23/2012 1:23:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/23/2012 1:02:10 AM, JamesMadison wrote:
At 7/23/2012 12:32:39 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
I actually have this site bookmarked now because so many people can't seem to figure it out.

http://data.bls.gov...

Jobs lost in the current collapse - 8.78 million jobs lost
Jobs lost in the 1982 collapse - 2.84 million jobs lost

Comparing the two as equals is one of the dumbest things you can do.


Simple fact is that steep declines are usually followed by strong recoveries. The 1980s recovery was very strong... this recovery has been very weak...

Not really, the current recovery has been 3.81 million jobs, Reagan's was 4.28 million (about about 10% stronger). But you should look at the debt difference from what they started with.

Reagan started with a $1 trillion national debt, while Obama started with a $11.9 trillion national debt. By 1984, Reagan raised the debt to $1.5 trillion (50% increase) and ultimately 150% by the end of his second term. Obama is currently at $15.7 trillion, or a 32% increase (note that this only is through June, Reagan's 50% was through September 84).


There is a lot of evidence that Obama's policies have caused uncertainty that has contributed to this.

The "uncertainty" is more to do with false fears driven by BS like this.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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7/23/2012 11:17:52 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/23/2012 12:32:39 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
I actually have this site bookmarked now because so many people can't seem to figure it out.

http://data.bls.gov...

Jobs lost in the current collapse - 8.78 million jobs lost
Jobs lost in the 1982 collapse - 2.84 million jobs lost

Comparing the two as equals is one of the dumbest things you can do.

Population differences can account for [some] of that
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https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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7/24/2012 1:06:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/23/2012 11:17:52 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 7/23/2012 12:32:39 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
I actually have this site bookmarked now because so many people can't seem to figure it out.

http://data.bls.gov...

Jobs lost in the current collapse - 8.78 million jobs lost
Jobs lost in the 1982 collapse - 2.84 million jobs lost

Comparing the two as equals is one of the dumbest things you can do.

Population differences can account for [some] of that

A tiny fraction. The job loss difference is over 200%. The population difference is no where close to that.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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7/24/2012 3:16:05 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Why do people always act as if the recovery from the 1980's recession as anything to do with what we should expect from to the recession of 2008? They were completely different. The one from the 1980's was primarily caused by inflation. That seems like a relative easy problem to fix compared to grossly overinflated real estate values. Obama inherited an economy that was pretty much built on equity that didn't exist. That is not a problem you just fix and move on.
Microsuck
Posts: 1,562
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7/24/2012 9:34:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on Gary Johnson's track record? http://www.garyjohnson2012.com... I personally think it is amazing.
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Contra
Posts: 3,941
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7/24/2012 10:08:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/23/2012 12:32:39 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
I actually have this site bookmarked now because so many people can't seem to figure it out.

http://data.bls.gov...

Jobs lost in the current collapse - 8.78 million jobs lost
Jobs lost in the 1982 collapse - 2.84 million jobs lost

Comparing the two as equals is one of the dumbest things you can do.

+100
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Contra
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7/24/2012 10:09:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/24/2012 3:16:05 AM, Double_R wrote:
Why do people always act as if the recovery from the 1980's recession as anything to do with what we should expect from to the recession of 2008? They were completely different. The one from the 1980's was primarily caused by inflation. That seems like a relative easy problem to fix compared to grossly overinflated real estate values. Obama inherited an economy that was pretty much built on equity that didn't exist. That is not a problem you just fix and move on.

And what did Reagan do? Tax cuts and an expansionary monetary policy, and growing federal spending on the military industrial complex.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
LaissezFaire
Posts: 2,050
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7/24/2012 10:13:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Speaking of using economic statistics without controlling for other variables: https://helda.helsinki.fi...
Should we subsidize education?
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: At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote:
: i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now.