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Does Poverty Cause Crime?

JamesMadison
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7/23/2012 10:34:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
In short, no. It doesn't. The correlation doesn't hold historically:

http://scottystarnes.wordpress.com...

However, poorer people are more likely to commit crimes. But, this does NOT mean that poverty causes crime. It is just as conceivable that crime is a cause of poverty.

However, they are likely not causing each other, but instead common effects of other characteristics that the poor have.

The poor have many unique characteristics: more likely to commit crime, more likely to have children out of wedlock, among other things.

However, the common factor may be IRRATIONALITY. It may be politically incorrect, but the evidence suggests that the main cause of crime is not poverty, but irrationality. The poor, it should be noted, are far more irrational than any other group.

http://econlog.econlib.org...
As a general rule, you'll find that, when a conservative is talking about policy, history, economics, or something serious, liberals are nowhere to be found. But, as soon as a conservative mentions Obama's birthplace or personal life, liberals are everywhere, only to dissappear again when evidence enters the discussion.
darkkermit
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7/23/2012 10:36:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
it's really hard to prove irrationality. Stating that one has a low value for money or possesions =/= irrational.
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JamesMadison
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7/23/2012 10:38:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/23/2012 10:36:21 PM, darkkermit wrote:
it's really hard to prove irrationality. Stating that one has a low value for money or possesions =/= irrational.

Fair enough.

My main point here is that there is no solid evidence that poverty is a major cause of crime.
As a general rule, you'll find that, when a conservative is talking about policy, history, economics, or something serious, liberals are nowhere to be found. But, as soon as a conservative mentions Obama's birthplace or personal life, liberals are everywhere, only to dissappear again when evidence enters the discussion.
Apollo.11
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7/23/2012 10:44:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
What about intelligence?
In general, less intelligent people are poorer.
The lower one's intelligence, the likelier they are to commit crime.
Sapere Aude!
JamesMadison
Posts: 381
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7/23/2012 10:46:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/23/2012 10:44:10 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
What about intelligence?
In general, less intelligent people are poorer.
The lower one's intelligence, the likelier they are to commit crime.

Absolutely... less intelligence=less rationality

I would say culture, low intelligence, and less rationality are all likely causes of crime.
As a general rule, you'll find that, when a conservative is talking about policy, history, economics, or something serious, liberals are nowhere to be found. But, as soon as a conservative mentions Obama's birthplace or personal life, liberals are everywhere, only to dissappear again when evidence enters the discussion.
Contra
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7/23/2012 10:48:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
This seems connected to what I just put on a gun control thread. Poverty has a good connection with crime. When people are desperate, and lack property, they resort to crime to get some more property (in the case of goods or wealth).

This is why those in poverty are more likely to commit crime.

Areas that are poor are much more likely to have higher crime rates, because of desperation.

http://mtbi.asu.edu...

True, some people are naturally likely to commit acts of violence. I have been a victim of theft of this sort, and it is obvious that prosperity won't limit crime in its entirety.

In the 1990s with a good economy, crime declined by large amounts.
In the 2000s, with a poor economy, crime went up by modest amounts.

And correlation is causation by large evidence.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

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JamesMadison
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7/23/2012 10:53:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/23/2012 10:48:49 PM, Contra wrote:
This seems connected to what I just put on a gun control thread. Poverty has a good connection with crime. When people are desperate, and lack property, they resort to crime to get some more property (in the case of goods or wealth).

This is why those in poverty are more likely to commit crime.

Areas that are poor are much more likely to have higher crime rates, because of desperation.

http://mtbi.asu.edu...

True, some people are naturally likely to commit acts of violence. I have been a victim of theft of this sort, and it is obvious that prosperity won't limit crime in its entirety.

In the 1990s with a good economy, crime declined by large amounts.
In the 2000s, with a poor economy, crime went up by modest amounts.

And correlation is causation by large evidence.

I don't deny that poverty correlates with crime... the poorer you get the more likely you are to commit a crime. I deny that crime CAUSES poverty.

The evidence is clear here. First, look at the 1980s... the economy boomed, but so did crime... the same is true of the 1960s.

No, causation has to be established. The fact that a correlation exists DOES NOT prove causation at all.

Again, things like culture (biths out of wedlock and work ethic), low intelligence, and lack of irrationality are all causes of both crime and poverty...
As a general rule, you'll find that, when a conservative is talking about policy, history, economics, or something serious, liberals are nowhere to be found. But, as soon as a conservative mentions Obama's birthplace or personal life, liberals are everywhere, only to dissappear again when evidence enters the discussion.
Apollo.11
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7/23/2012 11:08:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
It's likely that a variety of factors that are more common in poverty also cause crime, whether that is desperation, intelligence, upbringing, or other factors.
Sapere Aude!
JamesMadison
Posts: 381
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7/23/2012 11:21:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/23/2012 11:08:22 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
It's likely that a variety of factors that are more common in poverty also cause crime, whether that is desperation, intelligence, upbringing, or other factors.

I mostly agree.
As a general rule, you'll find that, when a conservative is talking about policy, history, economics, or something serious, liberals are nowhere to be found. But, as soon as a conservative mentions Obama's birthplace or personal life, liberals are everywhere, only to dissappear again when evidence enters the discussion.
mark.marrocco
Posts: 236
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7/24/2012 12:02:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/23/2012 10:34:51 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
In short, no. It doesn't. The correlation doesn't hold historically:

http://scottystarnes.wordpress.com...


However, poorer people are more likely to commit crimes. But, this does NOT mean that poverty causes crime. It is just as conceivable that crime is a cause of poverty.

However, they are likely not causing each other, but instead common effects of other characteristics that the poor have.

The poor have many unique characteristics: more likely to commit crime, more likely to have children out of wedlock, among other things.

However, the common factor may be IRRATIONALITY. It may be politically incorrect, but the evidence suggests that the main cause of crime is not poverty, but irrationality. The poor, it should be noted, are far more irrational than any other group.

http://econlog.econlib.org...

Hmmm... Maybe white collar crime causes (or at least contributes to as one causal factor) economic disparity, thus causing educational disparities (i.e. irrationality in the poor), which then increases blue-collar crime.
"Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence."
Frederick53
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7/24/2012 12:12:23 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
It depends on what type of crime you're talking about. Rich people commit white collar crime out of greed, and poor people commit blue collar crime out of desperation and stupidity.
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Frederick53
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7/24/2012 12:14:37 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/24/2012 12:02:25 AM, mark.marrocco wrote:
At 7/23/2012 10:34:51 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
In short, no. It doesn't. The correlation doesn't hold historically:

http://scottystarnes.wordpress.com...


However, poorer people are more likely to commit crimes. But, this does NOT mean that poverty causes crime. It is just as conceivable that crime is a cause of poverty.

However, they are likely not causing each other, but instead common effects of other characteristics that the poor have.

The poor have many unique characteristics: more likely to commit crime, more likely to have children out of wedlock, among other things.

However, the common factor may be IRRATIONALITY. It may be politically incorrect, but the evidence suggests that the main cause of crime is not poverty, but irrationality. The poor, it should be noted, are far more irrational than any other group.

http://econlog.econlib.org...

Hmmm... Maybe white collar crime causes (or at least contributes to as one causal factor) economic disparity, thus causing educational disparities (i.e. irrationality in the poor), which then increases blue-collar crime.

Disregard my previous comment. What he said.
In 1975, the Second Vietnam War began -1Historygenius

Like no wonder that indian dude rejected you.- Darkkermit to royalpaladin

Social Darwinism is a justification- 1Historygenius

Equal opportunity exists, so there is no problem- EvanK
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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7/24/2012 1:12:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/23/2012 10:53:28 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
At 7/23/2012 10:48:49 PM, Contra wrote:
This seems connected to what I just put on a gun control thread. Poverty has a good connection with crime. When people are desperate, and lack property, they resort to crime to get some more property (in the case of goods or wealth).

This is why those in poverty are more likely to commit crime.

Areas that are poor are much more likely to have higher crime rates, because of desperation.

http://mtbi.asu.edu...

True, some people are naturally likely to commit acts of violence. I have been a victim of theft of this sort, and it is obvious that prosperity won't limit crime in its entirety.

In the 1990s with a good economy, crime declined by large amounts.
In the 2000s, with a poor economy, crime went up by modest amounts.

And correlation is causation by large evidence.


I don't deny that poverty correlates with crime... the poorer you get the more likely you are to commit a crime. I deny that crime CAUSES poverty.

Why? Serving jail time means you have less work experience so less likely to get a good job. Having a felony that you have to put on your job application also hurts employment opportunities.


The evidence is clear here. First, look at the 1980s... the economy boomed, but so did crime... the same is true of the 1960s.

Poverty rate jumped in the 80's

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com...

The "booming" economy did not benefit the poor nearly as much as it benefited the rich.

No, causation has to be established. The fact that a correlation exists DOES NOT prove causation at all.

Again, things like culture (biths out of wedlock and work ethic), low intelligence, and lack of irrationality are all causes of both crime and poverty...

I think you mean lack of "rationality." Though I'm not sure your reasoning for "births out of wedlock" for causing crime. Sure, you can point to a correlation, but how is that logically a cause?
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LaissezFaire
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7/24/2012 3:57:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/24/2012 12:02:25 AM, mark.marrocco wrote:
At 7/23/2012 10:34:51 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
In short, no. It doesn't. The correlation doesn't hold historically:

http://scottystarnes.wordpress.com...


However, poorer people are more likely to commit crimes. But, this does NOT mean that poverty causes crime. It is just as conceivable that crime is a cause of poverty.

However, they are likely not causing each other, but instead common effects of other characteristics that the poor have.

The poor have many unique characteristics: more likely to commit crime, more likely to have children out of wedlock, among other things.

However, the common factor may be IRRATIONALITY. It may be politically incorrect, but the evidence suggests that the main cause of crime is not poverty, but irrationality. The poor, it should be noted, are far more irrational than any other group.

http://econlog.econlib.org...

Hmmm... Maybe white collar crime causes (or at least contributes to as one causal factor) economic disparity, thus causing educational disparities (i.e. irrationality in the poor), which then increases blue-collar crime.

Educational disparities aren't the same thing as irrationality. Rationality, in this sense, would be more closely related to IQ and conscientiousness.
Should we subsidize education?
http://www.debate.org...

http://mises.org...

http://lewrockwell.com...

http://antiwar.com...

: At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote:
: i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now.
JamesMadison
Posts: 381
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7/24/2012 9:48:01 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/23/2012 11:52:34 PM, FREEDO wrote:


Ahh, the spirit level. That book has been debunked on two levels. First, it does nothing to establish casuality.

Second, it doesn't even get its numbers rights.

http://super-economy.blogspot.com...
As a general rule, you'll find that, when a conservative is talking about policy, history, economics, or something serious, liberals are nowhere to be found. But, as soon as a conservative mentions Obama's birthplace or personal life, liberals are everywhere, only to dissappear again when evidence enters the discussion.
mark.marrocco
Posts: 236
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7/24/2012 9:48:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/24/2012 3:57:32 AM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 7/24/2012 12:02:25 AM, mark.marrocco wrote:
At 7/23/2012 10:34:51 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
In short, no. It doesn't. The correlation doesn't hold historically:

http://scottystarnes.wordpress.com...


However, poorer people are more likely to commit crimes. But, this does NOT mean that poverty causes crime. It is just as conceivable that crime is a cause of poverty.

However, they are likely not causing each other, but instead common effects of other characteristics that the poor have.

The poor have many unique characteristics: more likely to commit crime, more likely to have children out of wedlock, among other things.

However, the common factor may be IRRATIONALITY. It may be politically incorrect, but the evidence suggests that the main cause of crime is not poverty, but irrationality. The poor, it should be noted, are far more irrational than any other group.

http://econlog.econlib.org...

Hmmm... Maybe white collar crime causes (or at least contributes to as one causal factor) economic disparity, thus causing educational disparities (i.e. irrationality in the poor), which then increases blue-collar crime.

Educational disparities aren't the same thing as irrationality. Rationality, in this sense, would be more closely related to IQ and conscientiousness.

I know what irrationality is. However, most of the research indicates that environment is more important to the development of "I.Q." (which is terribly flawed anyways) than inheritance. Intelligence could always be improved through the right environment, diet, habits, and education. Many poor people are born poor and thus deprived of such a situation, therefore perpetuating these problems in that population. You could probably then take this abnormal underdevelopment of the cerebral cortex into account, along with their preexisting environment, when you consider the behaviors they take up as habits that cause them to further be "unconscientious." i.e. poor diet, drugs, lack of exercise, and possibly even a negative outlook.
"Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence."
JamesMadison
Posts: 381
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7/24/2012 9:50:17 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/24/2012 1:12:25 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 7/23/2012 10:53:28 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
At 7/23/2012 10:48:49 PM, Contra wrote:
This seems connected to what I just put on a gun control thread. Poverty has a good connection with crime. When people are desperate, and lack property, they resort to crime to get some more property (in the case of goods or wealth).

This is why those in poverty are more likely to commit crime.

Areas that are poor are much more likely to have higher crime rates, because of desperation.

http://mtbi.asu.edu...

True, some people are naturally likely to commit acts of violence. I have been a victim of theft of this sort, and it is obvious that prosperity won't limit crime in its entirety.

In the 1990s with a good economy, crime declined by large amounts.
In the 2000s, with a poor economy, crime went up by modest amounts.

And correlation is causation by large evidence.


I don't deny that poverty correlates with crime... the poorer you get the more likely you are to commit a crime. I deny that crime CAUSES poverty.

Why? Serving jail time means you have less work experience so less likely to get a good job. Having a felony that you have to put on your job application also hurts employment opportunities.

I'm not sure this is really a logical explanation.



The evidence is clear here. First, look at the 1980s... the economy boomed, but so did crime... the same is true of the 1960s.

Poverty rate jumped in the 80's

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com...

Poverty rate fell in the 1980s....


The "booming" economy did not benefit the poor nearly as much as it benefited the rich.


No, causation has to be established. The fact that a correlation exists DOES NOT prove causation at all.

Again, things like culture (biths out of wedlock and work ethic), low intelligence, and lack of irrationality are all causes of both crime and poverty...

I think you mean lack of "rationality." Though I'm not sure your reasoning for "births out of wedlock" for causing crime. Sure, you can point to a correlation, but how is that logically a cause?
As a general rule, you'll find that, when a conservative is talking about policy, history, economics, or something serious, liberals are nowhere to be found. But, as soon as a conservative mentions Obama's birthplace or personal life, liberals are everywhere, only to dissappear again when evidence enters the discussion.
JamesMadison
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7/24/2012 9:51:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/24/2012 9:48:32 AM, mark.marrocco wrote:
At 7/24/2012 3:57:32 AM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 7/24/2012 12:02:25 AM, mark.marrocco wrote:
At 7/23/2012 10:34:51 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
In short, no. It doesn't. The correlation doesn't hold historically:

http://scottystarnes.wordpress.com...


However, poorer people are more likely to commit crimes. But, this does NOT mean that poverty causes crime. It is just as conceivable that crime is a cause of poverty.

However, they are likely not causing each other, but instead common effects of other characteristics that the poor have.

The poor have many unique characteristics: more likely to commit crime, more likely to have children out of wedlock, among other things.

However, the common factor may be IRRATIONALITY. It may be politically incorrect, but the evidence suggests that the main cause of crime is not poverty, but irrationality. The poor, it should be noted, are far more irrational than any other group.

http://econlog.econlib.org...

Hmmm... Maybe white collar crime causes (or at least contributes to as one causal factor) economic disparity, thus causing educational disparities (i.e. irrationality in the poor), which then increases blue-collar crime.

Educational disparities aren't the same thing as irrationality. Rationality, in this sense, would be more closely related to IQ and conscientiousness.

I know what irrationality is. However, most of the research indicates that environment is more important to the development of "I.Q." (which is terribly flawed anyways) than inheritance. Intelligence could always be improved through the right environment, diet, habits, and education. Many poor people are born poor and thus deprived of such a situation, therefore perpetuating these problems in that population. You could probably then take this abnormal underdevelopment of the cerebral cortex into account, along with their preexisting environment, when you consider the behaviors they take up as habits that cause them to further be "unconscientious." i.e. poor diet, drugs, lack of exercise, and possibly even a negative outlook.

Which studies show this?

All the studies I read show the exact opposite, that genetics play a much larger role... anywhere from 75 to 85% in adults.
As a general rule, you'll find that, when a conservative is talking about policy, history, economics, or something serious, liberals are nowhere to be found. But, as soon as a conservative mentions Obama's birthplace or personal life, liberals are everywhere, only to dissappear again when evidence enters the discussion.
tulle
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7/24/2012 9:57:31 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/23/2012 10:44:10 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
What about intelligence?
In general, less intelligent people are poorer.
The lower one's intelligence, the likelier they are to get caught.

Fixed.
yang.
mark.marrocco
Posts: 236
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7/24/2012 9:57:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/23/2012 10:34:51 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
In short, no. It doesn't. The correlation doesn't hold historically:

http://scottystarnes.wordpress.com...


However, poorer people are more likely to commit crimes. But, this does NOT mean that poverty causes crime. It is just as conceivable that crime is a cause of poverty.

However, they are likely not causing each other, but instead common effects of other characteristics that the poor have.

The poor have many unique characteristics: more likely to commit crime, more likely to have children out of wedlock, among other things.

However, the common factor may be IRRATIONALITY. It may be politically incorrect, but the evidence suggests that the main cause of crime is not poverty, but irrationality. The poor, it should be noted, are far more irrational than any other group.

http://econlog.econlib.org...

What I don't see is how crime could cause poverty. I can see how it would hold individuals back from prospering (self-defeating behavior.) However, even the statistics you've put forward suggest that crime is inversely proportional to overall poverty levels.

A theory to explain this might be that when there are fewer truly poor people, they then feel a disproportionately high sense of injustice/anger/etc. They would then have more targets to take this out on in terms of theft, robbery, burglary, etc.

Conversely, at present we have a low crime rate and a high poverty rate. Maybe this is because as the number of poor people in the "same boat" goes up, the harder time they have taking it out on their peers, and there are fewer worthwhile targets for economically motivated crimes among their peers.

It seems that in this case they band together (somewhat) and resist those who control the system instead of those who simply utilize it better. That, to me, is an improvement.
"Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence."
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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7/24/2012 10:00:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/23/2012 10:34:51 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
In short, no. It doesn't. The correlation doesn't hold historically:

http://scottystarnes.wordpress.com...


However, poorer people are more likely to commit crimes. But, this does NOT mean that poverty causes crime. It is just as conceivable that crime is a cause of poverty.

However, they are likely not causing each other, but instead common effects of other characteristics that the poor have.

The poor have many unique characteristics: more likely to commit crime, more likely to have children out of wedlock, among other things.

However, the common factor may be IRRATIONALITY. It may be politically incorrect, but the evidence suggests that the main cause of crime is not poverty, but irrationality. The poor, it should be noted, are far more irrational than any other group.

http://econlog.econlib.org...

there is a 47% correlation (r = 0.47) ; which is a weak correlation. The SSE is also 39,897%, so it's hard to predict crime rates based on poverty level.

data source: http://www.datamasher.org...
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
DanT
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7/24/2012 10:02:30 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I think it more has to do with population density. A higher Population density leads to more crime, and more economic inequality.
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LaissezFaire
Posts: 2,050
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7/24/2012 10:14:43 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/24/2012 9:48:32 AM, mark.marrocco wrote:
At 7/24/2012 3:57:32 AM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 7/24/2012 12:02:25 AM, mark.marrocco wrote:
At 7/23/2012 10:34:51 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
In short, no. It doesn't. The correlation doesn't hold historically:

http://scottystarnes.wordpress.com...


However, poorer people are more likely to commit crimes. But, this does NOT mean that poverty causes crime. It is just as conceivable that crime is a cause of poverty.

However, they are likely not causing each other, but instead common effects of other characteristics that the poor have.

The poor have many unique characteristics: more likely to commit crime, more likely to have children out of wedlock, among other things.

However, the common factor may be IRRATIONALITY. It may be politically incorrect, but the evidence suggests that the main cause of crime is not poverty, but irrationality. The poor, it should be noted, are far more irrational than any other group.

http://econlog.econlib.org...

Hmmm... Maybe white collar crime causes (or at least contributes to as one causal factor) economic disparity, thus causing educational disparities (i.e. irrationality in the poor), which then increases blue-collar crime.

Educational disparities aren't the same thing as irrationality. Rationality, in this sense, would be more closely related to IQ and conscientiousness.

I know what irrationality is. However, most of the research indicates that environment is more important to the development of "I.Q." (which is terribly flawed anyways) than inheritance. Intelligence could always be improved through the right environment, diet, habits, and education. Many poor people are born poor and thus deprived of such a situation, therefore perpetuating these problems in that population. You could probably then take this abnormal underdevelopment of the cerebral cortex into account, along with their preexisting environment, when you consider the behaviors they take up as habits that cause them to further be "unconscientious." i.e. poor diet, drugs, lack of exercise, and possibly even a negative outlook.

There is no evidence that any of those things can improve intelligence. Diet perhaps, if it's the difference between malnutrition and having enough to eat, but that's really only relevant in the 3rd world.

None of those things can cause conscientiousness, they are caused by conscientiousness, which is significantly genetic. http://genepi.qimr.edu.au...

There's little evidence that "environment" plays much of a role in either IQ or conscientiousness, at least in the sense that most people mean environment. Studies find that "unique environment" plays a large role, but that doesn't mean family or social environment, it basically means "we don't know." For example, controlling for genetic similarity, siblings aren't significantly more similar than any random 2 people from the population--the environment they share makes little difference in their development.
Should we subsidize education?
http://www.debate.org...

http://mises.org...

http://lewrockwell.com...

http://antiwar.com...

: At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote:
: i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now.
LaissezFaire
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7/24/2012 10:25:20 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/24/2012 9:57:31 AM, tulle wrote:
At 7/23/2012 10:44:10 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
What about intelligence?
In general, less intelligent people are poorer.
The lower one's intelligence, the likelier they are to commit crime.

Fixed.

Fixed back, was right the first time.

I suppose it could be the case that lower IQ people are more likely to get caught eating fast food and not exercising, even though they do those things at the same rate as everyone else, more likely to get caught using drugs/alcohol/cigarettes, even though they use those things at the same rate as everyone else, and are more likely to get caught doing poor work in school while they actually do the same quality work as everyone else. But the more obvious explanation is that statistics about lower IQ people are what they seem to be, and all of these things are because they have poorer impulse control and poorer ability to judge the future consequences of their actions.
Should we subsidize education?
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: At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote:
: i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now.
darkkermit
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7/24/2012 10:35:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/24/2012 10:25:20 AM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 7/24/2012 9:57:31 AM, tulle wrote:
At 7/23/2012 10:44:10 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
What about intelligence?
In general, less intelligent people are poorer.
The lower one's intelligence, the likelier they are to commit crime.

Fixed.

Fixed back, was right the first time.

I suppose it could be the case that lower IQ people are more likely to get caught eating fast food and not exercising, even though they do those things at the same rate as everyone else, more likely to get caught using drugs/alcohol/cigarettes, even though they use those things at the same rate as everyone else, and are more likely to get caught doing poor work in school while they actually do the same quality work as everyone else. But the more obvious explanation is that statistics about lower IQ people are what they seem to be, and all of these things are because they have poorer impulse control and poorer ability to judge the future consequences of their actions.

People with higher IQ are more likely to do drugs.

http://healthland.time.com...
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Frederick53
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7/24/2012 10:36:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/24/2012 3:57:32 AM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 7/24/2012 12:02:25 AM, mark.marrocco wrote:
At 7/23/2012 10:34:51 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
In short, no. It doesn't. The correlation doesn't hold historically:

http://scottystarnes.wordpress.com...


However, poorer people are more likely to commit crimes. But, this does NOT mean that poverty causes crime. It is just as conceivable that crime is a cause of poverty.

However, they are likely not causing each other, but instead common effects of other characteristics that the poor have.

The poor have many unique characteristics: more likely to commit crime, more likely to have children out of wedlock, among other things.

However, the common factor may be IRRATIONALITY. It may be politically incorrect, but the evidence suggests that the main cause of crime is not poverty, but irrationality. The poor, it should be noted, are far more irrational than any other group.

http://econlog.econlib.org...

Hmmm... Maybe white collar crime causes (or at least contributes to as one causal factor) economic disparity, thus causing educational disparities (i.e. irrationality in the poor), which then increases blue-collar crime.

Educational disparities aren't the same thing as irrationality. Rationality, in this sense, would be more closely related to IQ and conscientiousness.

How is education not linked to a person's IQ?
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LaissezFaire
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7/24/2012 10:43:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/24/2012 10:36:07 AM, Frederick53 wrote:
At 7/24/2012 3:57:32 AM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 7/24/2012 12:02:25 AM, mark.marrocco wrote:
At 7/23/2012 10:34:51 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
In short, no. It doesn't. The correlation doesn't hold historically:

http://scottystarnes.wordpress.com...


However, poorer people are more likely to commit crimes. But, this does NOT mean that poverty causes crime. It is just as conceivable that crime is a cause of poverty.

However, they are likely not causing each other, but instead common effects of other characteristics that the poor have.

The poor have many unique characteristics: more likely to commit crime, more likely to have children out of wedlock, among other things.

However, the common factor may be IRRATIONALITY. It may be politically incorrect, but the evidence suggests that the main cause of crime is not poverty, but irrationality. The poor, it should be noted, are far more irrational than any other group.

http://econlog.econlib.org...

Hmmm... Maybe white collar crime causes (or at least contributes to as one causal factor) economic disparity, thus causing educational disparities (i.e. irrationality in the poor), which then increases blue-collar crime.

Educational disparities aren't the same thing as irrationality. Rationality, in this sense, would be more closely related to IQ and conscientiousness.

How is education not linked to a person's IQ?

They are linked. But it's IQ that causes education, not the other way around.
Should we subsidize education?
http://www.debate.org...

http://mises.org...

http://lewrockwell.com...

http://antiwar.com...

: At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote:
: i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now.
darkkermit
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7/24/2012 10:44:18 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/24/2012 10:36:07 AM, Frederick53 wrote:
At 7/24/2012 3:57:32 AM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 7/24/2012 12:02:25 AM, mark.marrocco wrote:
At 7/23/2012 10:34:51 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
In short, no. It doesn't. The correlation doesn't hold historically:

http://scottystarnes.wordpress.com...


However, poorer people are more likely to commit crimes. But, this does NOT mean that poverty causes crime. It is just as conceivable that crime is a cause of poverty.

However, they are likely not causing each other, but instead common effects of other characteristics that the poor have.

The poor have many unique characteristics: more likely to commit crime, more likely to have children out of wedlock, among other things.

However, the common factor may be IRRATIONALITY. It may be politically incorrect, but the evidence suggests that the main cause of crime is not poverty, but irrationality. The poor, it should be noted, are far more irrational than any other group.

http://econlog.econlib.org...

Hmmm... Maybe white collar crime causes (or at least contributes to as one causal factor) economic disparity, thus causing educational disparities (i.e. irrationality in the poor), which then increases blue-collar crime.

Educational disparities aren't the same thing as irrationality. Rationality, in this sense, would be more closely related to IQ and conscientiousness.

How is education not linked to a person's IQ?

They are, however education doesn't cause someone to have a high IQ. Rather a high IQ causes someone to have an education.
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