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Gary Johnson would win in 2012

Wallstreetatheist
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7/25/2012 11:14:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Gary Johnson would win the 2012 presidential election if voting was based the issues. He would win 284 electoral college votes and 28 states. For the two warmongering, corporatist statists B.O. receives 217 electoral college votes in 16 states and M.R. receives 21 electoral college votes in 4 states. Fvck Duverger's Law and plurality rule.

One comment: "The issues are with Gary Johnson. Too bad the system is not."

Click on the hyperlink on "Here is the spreadsheet" to access the iSidewith data table: http://garyjohnsongrassrootsblog.blogspot.com...
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Wallstreetatheist
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7/25/2012 11:32:52 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
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Wallstreetatheist
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7/25/2012 11:52:44 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
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Wallstreetatheist
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7/25/2012 11:52:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
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Wallstreetatheist
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7/25/2012 11:53:17 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
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Wallstreetatheist
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7/25/2012 11:53:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
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RoyLatham
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7/25/2012 12:02:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
It isn't just issues, of course. Experience and many other things are important to voters. Obama was elected based upon charisma, despite no experience and no cler position on most issues -- just "hope and change." Tell me Johnson is going to win on charisma.

The other error is to suppose that approval on a majority of issues is compelling to voters. Libertarians carry the poison pill of foreign policy, where very few voters will favor disbanding most of the military and starting a free market in nuclear weapons. Drug legalization is another one. California could not pass a referendum to decriminalize marijuana, so imagine how legalizing everything would go in the rest of the country.
Microsuck
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7/25/2012 12:04:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
gah, you beat me to it
Wall of Fail

Devil worship much? - SD
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Lordknukle
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7/25/2012 12:07:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/25/2012 12:02:38 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
The other error is to suppose that approval on a majority of issues is compelling to voters. Libertarians carry the poison pill of foreign policy,

I don't see how; Libertarians carry the most reasonable foreign policy, which includes not going to war with every single person who pissed you off in the past and recognizing that if you invade a country, you are going to get retaliation not because of your "freedoms" but because of your murder of their civilians.
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Wallstreetatheist
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7/25/2012 12:39:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/25/2012 12:07:11 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 7/25/2012 12:02:38 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
The other error is to suppose that approval on a majority of issues is compelling to voters. Libertarians carry the poison pill of foreign policy,

I don't see how; Libertarians carry the most reasonable foreign policy, which includes not going to war with every single person who pissed you off in the past and recognizing that if you invade a country, you are going to get retaliation not because of your "freedoms" but because of your murder of their civilians.

That's true. Also, noninterventionism appeals to far more people than starting multiple, contemporaneous unjustified conflicts, which result in society becoming poorer, less free, and less safe. The evidence supports noninterventionism as well: http://papers.ssrn.com...
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Wallstreetatheist
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7/25/2012 12:39:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/25/2012 12:04:08 PM, Microsuck wrote:
gah, you beat me to it

lol, SUCK IT!
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Wallstreetatheist
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7/25/2012 1:19:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/25/2012 12:02:38 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
It isn't just issues, of course. Experience and many other things are important to voters. Obama was elected based upon charisma, despite no experience and no cler position on most issues -- just "hope and change." Tell me Johnson is going to win on charisma.

As economic and political literacy spreads, especially through the internet, more and more people will vote based on policy, and will therefore vote Libertarian. There's a strong argument to be made against this charisma bias: which affects your life more, government policies making you less prosperous, taking away your natural rights, and inciting international violence and hatred against you and your countrymen, or the way someone talks and smiles before asking for your vote?

Drug legalization is another one. California could not pass a referendum to decriminalize marijuana, so imagine how legalizing everything would go in the rest of the country.

50% of the US has smoked marijuana, a large percentage have used other drugs. Drug prohibition creates more crime, prisoners, and death. Legalization of drugs is the least bad option based on the evidence. The internet generation is largely Libertarian, so on that I would posit the US will become increasingly Libertarian in the coming years.
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Contra
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7/25/2012 2:22:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
People don't usually vote "on the issues." If they did, Reagan wouldn't of won. People vote based on a politician's principles and values, and how they connect to them, and if they are authentic.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

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Microsuck
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7/25/2012 2:26:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/25/2012 2:22:19 PM, Contra wrote:
People don't usually vote "on the issues." If they did, Reagan wouldn't of won. People vote based on a politician's principles and values, and how they connect to them, and if they are authentic.

For that reason, as well as the issues, I'm voting for Johnson!
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Devil worship much? - SD
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NixonianVolkswagen
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7/25/2012 4:16:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/25/2012 12:02:38 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
It isn't just issues, of course. Experience and many other things are important to voters. Obama was elected based upon charisma, despite no experience and no cler position on most issues -- just "hope and change." Tell me Johnson is going to win on charisma.

The other error is to suppose that approval on a majority of issues is compelling to voters. Libertarians carry the poison pill of foreign policy, where very few voters will favor disbanding most of the military and starting a free market in nuclear weapons. Drug legalization is another one. California could not pass a referendum to decriminalize marijuana, so imagine how legalizing everything would go in the rest of the country.

I actually think people would love to feel like they're voting for the most experienced candidate, the most qualified, but I don't think the average voter, (heck, dispensing with elitism, most of the time I'm not sure who the best candidate is in more than general terms), is capable of making that sort of judgement call. It would require knowing intimately what a NSA or Secretary of State actually does both in theory and practice, then being aware enough of that individual's record to make an informed appraisal. But, of course, it would be more than that, because you'd have to match what you perceive their strengths to be with what you prioritize for the nation/global order.

So, whilst I agree with you, until there's some mechanism, or institute, which can provide the relevant information in a concise form, experience is always going to be something that some reject as they can't fathom it.

/tangent
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Frederick53
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7/25/2012 4:17:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/25/2012 12:07:11 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 7/25/2012 12:02:38 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
The other error is to suppose that approval on a majority of issues is compelling to voters. Libertarians carry the poison pill of foreign policy,

I don't see how; Libertarians carry the most reasonable foreign policy, which includes not going to war with every single person who pissed you off in the past and recognizing that if you invade a country, you are going to get retaliation not because of your "freedoms" but because of your murder of their civilians.

Thank you
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Stephen_Hawkins
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7/25/2012 7:12:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/25/2012 1:19:49 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 7/25/2012 12:02:38 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
It isn't just issues, of course. Experience and many other things are important to voters. Obama was elected based upon charisma, despite no experience and no cler position on most issues -- just "hope and change." Tell me Johnson is going to win on charisma.

As economic and political literacy spreads, especially through the internet, more and more people will vote based on policy, and will therefore vote Libertarian. There's a strong argument to be made against this charisma bias: which affects your life more, government policies making you less prosperous, taking away your natural rights, and inciting international violence and hatred against you and your countrymen, or the way someone talks and smiles before asking for your vote?

Just on this point, it's the latter, still.
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PARADIGM_L0ST
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7/25/2012 8:52:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
As much as it would delight me if Johnson won, we have to be realistic. Ron Paul is the most popular libertarian in the entire US and couldn't win more than 2 out of 50 states.

Secondly, even though I agree with his assessments concerning marijuana, this seems to be his "big issue" that constantly brings up.

I'm sorry, but there's a bit more pressing issues than you getting high legally.

And none of that means that I won't vote for him, because I fully intend on it. F*ck Obama, f*ck Romney. Just saying that the odds are not even remotely in his favor. If they were, the polls would have reflected that in Ron Paul.
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1Historygenius
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7/25/2012 10:39:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/25/2012 12:07:11 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 7/25/2012 12:02:38 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
The other error is to suppose that approval on a majority of issues is compelling to voters. Libertarians carry the poison pill of foreign policy,

I don't see how; Libertarians carry the most reasonable foreign policy, which includes not going to war with every single person who pissed you off in the past and recognizing that if you invade a country, you are going to get retaliation not because of your "freedoms" but because of your murder of their civilians.

LOL, that is why Libertarians are the party of Neville Chamberlain.
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16kadams
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7/26/2012 12:21:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/25/2012 11:14:36 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Gary Johnson would win the 2012 presidential election if voting was based the issues. He would win 284 electoral college votes and 28 states. For the two warmongering, corporatist statists B.O. receives 217 electoral college votes in 16 states and M.R. receives 21 electoral college votes in 4 states. Fvck Duverger's Law and plurality rule.

One comment: "The issues are with Gary Johnson. Too bad the system is not."

Click on the hyperlink on "Here is the spreadsheet" to access the iSidewith data table: http://garyjohnsongrassrootsblog.blogspot.com...

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https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
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Frederick53
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7/26/2012 12:38:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/25/2012 10:39:54 PM, 1Historygenius wrote:
At 7/25/2012 12:07:11 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 7/25/2012 12:02:38 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
The other error is to suppose that approval on a majority of issues is compelling to voters. Libertarians carry the poison pill of foreign policy,

I don't see how; Libertarians carry the most reasonable foreign policy, which includes not going to war with every single person who pissed you off in the past and recognizing that if you invade a country, you are going to get retaliation not because of your "freedoms" but because of your murder of their civilians.

LOL, that is why Libertarians are the party of Neville Chamberlain.

There's a difference between trying breathlessly to appease foreign governments and calmly deciding not to attack them for stupid reasons.
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Like no wonder that indian dude rejected you.- Darkkermit to royalpaladin

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Ragnar_Rahl
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7/26/2012 2:25:23 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/26/2012 12:38:33 AM, Frederick53 wrote:
At 7/25/2012 10:39:54 PM, 1Historygenius wrote:
At 7/25/2012 12:07:11 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 7/25/2012 12:02:38 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
The other error is to suppose that approval on a majority of issues is compelling to voters. Libertarians carry the poison pill of foreign policy,

I don't see how; Libertarians carry the most reasonable foreign policy, which includes not going to war with every single person who pissed you off in the past and recognizing that if you invade a country, you are going to get retaliation not because of your "freedoms" but because of your murder of their civilians.

LOL, that is why Libertarians are the party of Neville Chamberlain.

How many millions less Soviet soldiers would the world have been menaced by had the US let the Soviets and Nazis kill each other a little longer?
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LaissezFaire
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7/26/2012 3:36:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/25/2012 11:14:36 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Gary Johnson would win the 2012 presidential election if voting was based the issues. He would win 284 electoral college votes and 28 states. For the two warmongering, corporatist statists B.O. receives 217 electoral college votes in 16 states and M.R. receives 21 electoral college votes in 4 states. Fvck Duverger's Law and plurality rule.

One comment: "The issues are with Gary Johnson. Too bad the system is not."

Click on the hyperlink on "Here is the spreadsheet" to access the iSidewith data table: http://garyjohnsongrassrootsblog.blogspot.com...

This conclusion is based on online polls, where libertarians are vastly overrepresented. If they were accurate, Ron Paul would have won the Republican Primary. If you look at statistically sound opinion polls, the American people are nowhere near Ron Paul or Gary Johnson on the issues.
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RoyLatham
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7/26/2012 11:22:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Gee, since everyone wants heroin legalized and a free market in nukes, it must be that Ron Paul won. Somehow I missed that.

The way to sell libertarian ideas is to do it incrementally, by proposing incremental increases in freedoms and demonstrating that they work. Demanding that everyone convert to a new religion overnight is a non-starter. Pretending that everyone agrees is delusional.
Wallstreetatheist
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7/26/2012 11:31:57 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/26/2012 3:36:11 AM, LaissezFaire wrote:

This conclusion is based on online polls, where libertarians are vastly overrepresented. If they were accurate, Ron Paul would have won the Republican Primary. If you look at statistically sound opinion polls, the American people are nowhere near Ron Paul or Gary Johnson on the issues.

This is true. It's also the reason every YouTube video about politics had "Ron Paul 2012" as the top comment for six months. As the US becomes more economically and politically literate, Libertarianism will expand. Hopefully one day, the retards who prove Duverger's Law correct by voting for warmongering, corporatist imbeciles will die off.
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Wallstreetatheist
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7/26/2012 11:39:50 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/26/2012 11:22:34 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
Gee, since everyone wants heroin legalized and a free market in nukes, it must be that Ron Paul won. Somehow I missed that.

Aww, look at the little statist using petty scare tactics to scare us into accepting statism :3

The way to sell libertarian ideas is to do it incrementally, by proposing incremental increases in freedoms and demonstrating that they work. Demanding that everyone convert to a new religion overnight is a non-starter. Pretending that everyone agrees is delusional.

Libertarianism is not a religion, it's actually the opposite. It sheds the utopian idea that you can do good through the gun, and realizes the corruptibility of human nature. It stresses values that have proven to make society flourish. The religion of the state is, "all about allegiance to the state, with its flags, its songs, its mass murders, its little children saluting and paying homage to pictures of their dear leaders on the wall, etc."
I described a gradual process in my post: that as people become economically and politically literate, more educated, well read, etc. Libertarianism grows, as it is doing currently. I wasn't pretending everyone agrees, just the majority of people with internet access.
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Wallstreetatheist
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7/26/2012 12:24:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Gary Johnson's position on marijuana is legalization, taxation, and regulation. His position on harder drugs is harm-reduction and treating drug addiction as a health issue, not a criminal issue.
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Ragnar_Rahl
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7/26/2012 12:28:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/26/2012 11:22:34 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
Gee, since everyone wants heroin legalized and a free market in nukes, it must be that Ron Paul won. Somehow I missed that.

The way to sell libertarian ideas is to do it incrementally, by proposing incremental increases in freedoms and demonstrating that they work.
Not all do so, the primary effect of some regulations is to counter the effect of other regulations. Still, incrementalism is one of the only ways that might happen.

(the other is to take a country that everyone agrees sucks, like, say, Myanmar; conquer it, implement libertarianism there-- even non-libertarians will agree it's an improvement over Myanmar, and we get to see the results).
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