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Malthusian Economics and Abortion

YYW
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7/29/2012 2:16:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Would anyone want to do an LD style debate where we debate the resolution:

"Abortion is necessary to the survival of humanity."

Value Premise: Pragmatism

Value Criterion: Malthusian Calculi (Malthusianism, or something like it)

I intend to argue that the abortion (wether we conceive it as murder of the innocent, infanticide, etc.) is both necessary and proper for the long term survival of the human race because (1) exponential growth of the human race ominously threatens to overpopulate the earth beyond its carrying capacity and (2) abortion is a viable means to prevent the aforementioned circumstance's occurrence.

Anyone interested?
Tsar of DDO
LaissezFaire
Posts: 2,050
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7/29/2012 2:18:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Yes.
Should we subsidize education?
http://www.debate.org...

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http://lewrockwell.com...

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: At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote:
: i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now.
LaissezFaire
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7/29/2012 2:21:50 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I've been hoping to do a debate on overpopulation for a while.
Should we subsidize education?
http://www.debate.org...

http://mises.org...

http://lewrockwell.com...

http://antiwar.com...

: At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote:
: i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now.
YYW
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7/29/2012 2:22:49 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/29/2012 2:21:50 AM, LaissezFaire wrote:
I've been hoping to do a debate on overpopulation for a while.

I would be in favor of abortion and the killin' and dyin' associated. You good with that?
Tsar of DDO
LaissezFaire
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7/29/2012 2:30:20 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/29/2012 2:22:49 AM, YYW wrote:
At 7/29/2012 2:21:50 AM, LaissezFaire wrote:
I've been hoping to do a debate on overpopulation for a while.

I would be in favor of abortion and the killin' and dyin' associated. You good with that?

Well, no, that's why I'm offering to accept the debate--I think your position is disgusting.
Should we subsidize education?
http://www.debate.org...

http://mises.org...

http://lewrockwell.com...

http://antiwar.com...

: At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote:
: i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now.
LaissezFaire
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7/29/2012 2:33:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Actually, before I accept, could you explain what

"Value Premise: Pragmatism

Value Criterion: Malthusian Calculi (Malthusianism, or something like it)"

means? I was planning on arguing that Malthus is wrong and overpopulation isn't a problem--is that allowed within the debate structure?
Should we subsidize education?
http://www.debate.org...

http://mises.org...

http://lewrockwell.com...

http://antiwar.com...

: At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote:
: i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now.
YYW
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7/29/2012 2:56:41 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/29/2012 2:33:24 AM, LaissezFaire wrote:
Actually, before I accept, could you explain what

"Value Premise: Pragmatism

Value Criterion: Malthusian Calculi (Malthusianism, or something like it)"

means? I was planning on arguing that Malthus is wrong and overpopulation isn't a problem--is that allowed within the debate structure?

Well... at the risk of sounding disgusting:

Google pragmatism. That's the end we're going for.

Calculi is just a fancy word for "process of decision making."

Applying Malthusian suggestions of the risks posed by overpopulation (lack of resources, etc.) is how we pragmatically preserve the human race.

I'll think more about this tomorrow, but in the mean time, tell me what you think is disgusting about the idea. I'm intrigued.
Tsar of DDO
LaissezFaire
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7/29/2012 3:00:46 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I know what 'pragmatism' and 'Malthusian calculi' mean. I just wasn't clear on the LD debater terms used. Does "Value Criterion: Malthusian Calculi" mean that I have to accept that criterion, and argue from a Malthusian perspective?
Should we subsidize education?
http://www.debate.org...

http://mises.org...

http://lewrockwell.com...

http://antiwar.com...

: At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote:
: i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now.
YYW
Posts: 36,282
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7/29/2012 3:06:39 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/29/2012 3:00:46 AM, LaissezFaire wrote:
I know what 'pragmatism' and 'Malthusian calculi' mean. I just wasn't clear on the LD debater terms used. Does "Value Criterion: Malthusian Calculi" mean that I have to accept that criterion, and argue from a Malthusian perspective?

YES IT DOES! lol

The value premise is basically what objective we should value most in this specific question and the criterion is the means to that end. You don't have to accept is -and really I'd be surprised if you did.
Tsar of DDO
LaissezFaire
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7/29/2012 3:08:06 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/29/2012 2:56:41 AM, YYW wrote:
I'll think more about this tomorrow, but in the mean time, tell me what you think is disgusting about the idea. I'm intrigued.

I'll answer with a quote from the great Julian Simon, whose work I planned on using for most of my arguments:

"One spring day about 1969 I visited the U.S. AID office on the outskirts of Washington, D.C., to discuss a project intended to lower fertility in less-developed countries. I arrived early for my appointment, so I strolled outside in the warm sunshine. Below the building's plaza I noticed a road sign that said 'Iwo Jima Memorial.' There came to me the memory of reading a eulogy delivered by a Jewish chaplain over the dead on the battlefield at Iwo Jima, saying something like, 'How many who would have been a Mozart or a Michelangelo or an Einstein have we buried here?'

And then I thought, Have I gone crazy? What business do I have trying to help arrange it that fewer human beings will be born, each one of whom might be a Mozart or a Michelangelo or an Einstein – or simply a joy to his or her family and community, and a person who will enjoy life?

I still believe that helping people fulfill their desires for the number of children they want is a wonderful human service. But to persuade them or coerce them to have fewer children than they would like to have—that is something entirely different…."
Should we subsidize education?
http://www.debate.org...

http://mises.org...

http://lewrockwell.com...

http://antiwar.com...

: At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote:
: i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now.
LaissezFaire
Posts: 2,050
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7/29/2012 3:09:43 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/29/2012 3:06:39 AM, YYW wrote:
At 7/29/2012 3:00:46 AM, LaissezFaire wrote:
I know what 'pragmatism' and 'Malthusian calculi' mean. I just wasn't clear on the LD debater terms used. Does "Value Criterion: Malthusian Calculi" mean that I have to accept that criterion, and argue from a Malthusian perspective?

YES IT DOES! lol

The value premise is basically what objective we should value most in this specific question and the criterion is the means to that end. You don't have to accept is -and really I'd be surprised if you did.

Wait, so which is it? If I'm Con, can I argue against Malthus or not?
Should we subsidize education?
http://www.debate.org...

http://mises.org...

http://lewrockwell.com...

http://antiwar.com...

: At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote:
: i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now.
YYW
Posts: 36,282
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7/29/2012 3:22:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/29/2012 3:09:43 AM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 7/29/2012 3:06:39 AM, YYW wrote:
At 7/29/2012 3:00:46 AM, LaissezFaire wrote:
I know what 'pragmatism' and 'Malthusian calculi' mean. I just wasn't clear on the LD debater terms used. Does "Value Criterion: Malthusian Calculi" mean that I have to accept that criterion, and argue from a Malthusian perspective?

YES IT DOES! lol

The value premise is basically what objective we should value most in this specific question and the criterion is the means to that end. You don't have to accept is -and really I'd be surprised if you did.

Wait, so which is it? If I'm Con, can I argue against Malthus or not?

You can argue that the sky is blue if you want to. Now... that may have bearing on the outcome of the debate... but seriously though, just have a framework. Anything come to mind?
Tsar of DDO
YYW
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7/29/2012 3:23:38 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/29/2012 3:22:26 AM, YYW wrote:
At 7/29/2012 3:09:43 AM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 7/29/2012 3:06:39 AM, YYW wrote:
At 7/29/2012 3:00:46 AM, LaissezFaire wrote:
I know what 'pragmatism' and 'Malthusian calculi' mean. I just wasn't clear on the LD debater terms used. Does "Value Criterion: Malthusian Calculi" mean that I have to accept that criterion, and argue from a Malthusian perspective?

YES IT DOES! lol

The value premise is basically what objective we should value most in this specific question and the criterion is the means to that end. You don't have to accept is -and really I'd be surprised if you did.

Wait, so which is it? If I'm Con, can I argue against Malthus or not?

You can argue that the sky is blue if you want to. Now... that may have bearing on the outcome of the debate... but seriously though, just have a framework. Anything come to mind?

Oh yeah, and PLEASE incorporate that quote. That will make it interesting.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
Posts: 36,282
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7/29/2012 3:24:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/29/2012 3:14:54 AM, FREEDO wrote:
I don't think it's too late to abort all the people we should have aborted.

So... whom should have been aborted?
Tsar of DDO
LaissezFaire
Posts: 2,050
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7/29/2012 3:24:05 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/29/2012 3:22:26 AM, YYW wrote:
At 7/29/2012 3:09:43 AM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 7/29/2012 3:06:39 AM, YYW wrote:
At 7/29/2012 3:00:46 AM, LaissezFaire wrote:
I know what 'pragmatism' and 'Malthusian calculi' mean. I just wasn't clear on the LD debater terms used. Does "Value Criterion: Malthusian Calculi" mean that I have to accept that criterion, and argue from a Malthusian perspective?

YES IT DOES! lol

The value premise is basically what objective we should value most in this specific question and the criterion is the means to that end. You don't have to accept is -and really I'd be surprised if you did.

Wait, so which is it? If I'm Con, can I argue against Malthus or not?

You can argue that the sky is blue if you want to. Now... that may have bearing on the outcome of the debate... but seriously though, just have a framework. Anything come to mind?

Utilitarianism? Or unlimited population growth is good, depending on what exactly a 'framework' is.
Should we subsidize education?
http://www.debate.org...

http://mises.org...

http://lewrockwell.com...

http://antiwar.com...

: At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote:
: i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now.
LaissezFaire
Posts: 2,050
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7/29/2012 3:26:12 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
That quote might be a bit long to include, but I'll try.
Should we subsidize education?
http://www.debate.org...

http://mises.org...

http://lewrockwell.com...

http://antiwar.com...

: At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote:
: i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now.
YYW
Posts: 36,282
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7/29/2012 3:28:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/29/2012 3:24:05 AM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 7/29/2012 3:22:26 AM, YYW wrote:
At 7/29/2012 3:09:43 AM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 7/29/2012 3:06:39 AM, YYW wrote:
At 7/29/2012 3:00:46 AM, LaissezFaire wrote:
I know what 'pragmatism' and 'Malthusian calculi' mean. I just wasn't clear on the LD debater terms used. Does "Value Criterion: Malthusian Calculi" mean that I have to accept that criterion, and argue from a Malthusian perspective?

YES IT DOES! lol

The value premise is basically what objective we should value most in this specific question and the criterion is the means to that end. You don't have to accept is -and really I'd be surprised if you did.

Wait, so which is it? If I'm Con, can I argue against Malthus or not?

You can argue that the sky is blue if you want to. Now... that may have bearing on the outcome of the debate... but seriously though, just have a framework. Anything come to mind?

Utilitarianism? Or unlimited population growth is good, depending on what exactly a 'framework' is.

You're on the right track. Utilitarianism would be interesting. Especially since that's going to be the perhaps most overreaching theme of my entire argument. I can feel the clash already. It will be wonderful.

Btw, were you and WSA classmates? I'm just curious.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
Posts: 36,282
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7/29/2012 3:29:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/29/2012 3:28:02 AM, YYW wrote:
At 7/29/2012 3:24:05 AM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 7/29/2012 3:22:26 AM, YYW wrote:
At 7/29/2012 3:09:43 AM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 7/29/2012 3:06:39 AM, YYW wrote:
At 7/29/2012 3:00:46 AM, LaissezFaire wrote:
I know what 'pragmatism' and 'Malthusian calculi' mean. I just wasn't clear on the LD debater terms used. Does "Value Criterion: Malthusian Calculi" mean that I have to accept that criterion, and argue from a Malthusian perspective?

YES IT DOES! lol

The value premise is basically what objective we should value most in this specific question and the criterion is the means to that end. You don't have to accept is -and really I'd be surprised if you did.

Wait, so which is it? If I'm Con, can I argue against Malthus or not?

You can argue that the sky is blue if you want to. Now... that may have bearing on the outcome of the debate... but seriously though, just have a framework. Anything come to mind?

Utilitarianism? Or unlimited population growth is good, depending on what exactly a 'framework' is.

You're on the right track. Utilitarianism would be interesting. Especially since that's going to be the perhaps most overreaching theme of my entire argument. I can feel the clash already. It will be wonderful.

Btw, were you and WSA classmates? I'm just curious.

Oh sh!t. Sorry. Wrong profile.
Tsar of DDO
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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7/29/2012 3:45:30 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'll debate you about this. I imagine my case would be somewhat different from LaissezFaire's, since I'm not a Libertarian.
YYW
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7/29/2012 7:34:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/29/2012 3:45:30 AM, Kinesis wrote:
I'll debate you about this. I imagine my case would be somewhat different from LaissezFaire's, since I'm not a Libertarian.

Right now it's this and colonizing Iraq that are perspective topics for me. If OreEle wishes to debate the latter (a topic I'm quite a bit more interested in) then I'll do that for the time being.
Tsar of DDO