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Obama. Dumb or great?

OllerupMand
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7/31/2012 6:02:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
As I didn't want to hijack the other thread I decided to make a new one where we could continue this if ConservatiePolitico or other want to

At 7/31/2012 5:35:21 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 7/31/2012 5:27:46 PM, OllerupMand wrote:
At 7/31/2012 4:32:55 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 7/31/2012 4:23:16 PM, OllerupMand wrote:
To learn.

From a Scandinavian point of view there is a number of things that don't make sense about different culturs. Like. . . Why don't all Americans just love Obama? What is the deal about those gunlaws O.o

This is a great place to look and learn.

Because he's the dumbest man to ever occupy the White House

Exactly what I don't get. Understand me right. I don't care if the American president is democrat or republican. They are both conservative to me, but Obama seems like a great president. He have been able to turn around the economie, created lots of jobs and other countries listen to and want to work eith you again. He hardly seems to be the dumbest man to occupy the White House.

He has created no jobs.
Our economy is about to fall back into recession.
Construction and Housing industries are worst in history.
Worker participation is lowest in history.
Debt is higher than we've ever had.

He's destroyed relationships with Israel and Great Britain.

Please don't act like you know what you're talking about if you don't know the situation in America.

Your relationship with Britain was destroyed by Bush, together with every other relationship you had and your debt is always the highest you have ever had. Do you even remember when it wasn't rising?

One camp say the economy is terrible and Obama destroyed it. Another that it is great and he saved it. When ever I read international news they seem to agree that it have turned, is recovering and getting better faster than most people expected.

It is not like America is a secret country. It is hard not to know the basic about the American situation.
JaxsonRaine
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7/31/2012 6:05:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The economy hasn't recovered. Unemployment is still over double-digits, and dollars to donuts it will tick up with the next job report. CBO projects 8.9% unemployment by the end of the year.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
MrBrooks
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7/31/2012 6:19:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Wow, don't take this the wrong way, but it is very rare to see someone from mainland Europe say they prefer American conservatism over American liberalism. Or atleast that is what I assume is going on here.
Apollo.11
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7/31/2012 6:21:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
"He's destroyed relationships with Israel and Great Britain."
lol. You can't make this sh*t up.

The best was when CP said Obama has ruined our foreign image...too funny.
Sapere Aude!
OllerupMand
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7/31/2012 6:31:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 6:19:12 PM, MrBrooks wrote:
Wow, don't take this the wrong way, but it is very rare to see someone from mainland Europe say they prefer American conservatism over American liberalism. Or atleast that is what I assume is going on here.

Actuelly I am saying that American conservatism and liberalism, both look ultra conservative to me and as an "outsider" I don't favor one party over another. In the same way you wouldn't care much about which of our ultrasocialist parties are in control. That said. During an international economic criss I would normaly preffere to see a republican president over a democratic, because of their "standard reaction".

With that said I just don't get why so many people seem angry about Obama, because from my point of view he took a country that most Europeans where dismissing as a superpower and turned it around.
Axiom
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7/31/2012 6:34:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I think you're shooting yourself in the foot if you call Obama 'dumb.' Graduating magna cum laude from Harvard Law School would be an impossible achievment if one were dumb. Now his policies I don't always agree with. But I'll you this: he's a lot more charismatic than Mitt Romney--who has the personality of a cardboard box.
Apollo.11
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7/31/2012 6:37:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 6:34:17 PM, Axiom wrote:
But I'll you this: he's a lot more charismatic than Mitt Romney--who has the personality of a cardboard box.

That's an insult to cardboard boxes...
Sapere Aude!
Axiom
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7/31/2012 6:47:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 6:37:20 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 7/31/2012 6:34:17 PM, Axiom wrote:
But I'll you this: he's a lot more charismatic than Mitt Romney--who has the personality of a cardboard box.

That's an insult to cardboard boxes...

P
thett3
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7/31/2012 6:51:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
As someone else pointed out, its basically impossible to argue that Obama is dumb. His policies, sure, but the guy is obviously pretty sharp.
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Ron-Paul
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8/1/2012 7:33:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
People make a good point here. Obama is not dumb, but his policies are dumb at best.

The unemployment statistics are not improving. The real unemployment rate is increasing, fewer people are looking for jobs, consumer confidence is dropping-again-, and GDP growth is decreasing. The economy is clearly not improving, but is in fact being wrecked further. America+Bush+Obama=Total Disaster.

The debt statistics are even worse. Obama has almost (again, liberals, this is almost) doubled the debt in four years! 6 trillion dollars added. That is some accomplishment. And if he is elected again, everyone should be assured that the debt will indeed double since 2008, most likely triple. And the longer-term damage (after 2016) will be even worse.

And with regards to Apollo, Obama has completely wrecked foreign policy. He is being nice to our enemies, making them think we look like softies, and has betrayed very important allies like Poland and Isreal to make new "friends" among our enemies.
NixonianVolkswagen
Posts: 481
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8/1/2012 8:04:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 6:37:20 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 7/31/2012 6:34:17 PM, Axiom wrote:
But I'll you this: he's a lot more charismatic than Mitt Romney--who has the personality of a cardboard box.

That's an insult to cardboard boxes...

Yeah, cardboard boxes might have Solid Snake inside them. It's difficult, but not impossible given his flipflopping, to credit Romney in that way.

Seriously though, I think Obama's clever. Not great, purely because he's quite humble (he talks about himself as a means to the end of reelection, but he doesn't have that self-regarding exuberance that so many Presidents have had), which limits his myth-making abilities, but solid. Probably too stolid in all fairness, his love of consensus has hampered his independence.

Basically, he's the Rockefeller Republican of yesteryear. Not all that exciting, but not bad.

At 8/1/2012 7:33:03 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
People make a good point here. Obama is not dumb, but his policies are dumb at best.

The unemployment statistics are not improving. The real unemployment rate is increasing, fewer people are looking for jobs, consumer confidence is dropping-again-, and GDP growth is decreasing. The economy is clearly not improving, but is in fact being wrecked further. America+Bush+Obama=Total Disaster.

The debt statistics are even worse. Obama has almost (again, liberals, this is almost) doubled the debt in four years! 6 trillion dollars added. That is some accomplishment. And if he is elected again, everyone should be assured that the debt will indeed double since 2008, most likely triple. And the longer-term damage (after 2016) will be even worse.

And with regards to Apollo, Obama has completely wrecked foreign policy. He is being nice to our enemies, making them think we look like softies, and has betrayed very important allies like Poland and Isreal to make new "friends" among our enemies.

I totally disagree with this. It's the one criticism which seems to me learned by rote. Don't get me wrong, I don't think he's a foreign policy genius (in truth I'm too ignorant to know), but this whole, "Bowing to the Middle-Easterners." weightless critique seems to me totally unsubstantiated. I'm not saying you personally are guilty of this, it's more a general point. Basically, Obama doesn't seem worse than "Regular President" + "Europeans like him better than average." The Israeli public has been a little negative, true; some racist comments emerging, but that, in short, is their problem.
"There is an almost universal tendency, perhaps an inborn tendency, to suspect the good faith of a man who holds opinions that differ from our own opinions."

- Karl "Spartacus" Popper
sadolite
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8/1/2012 8:51:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Make no mistake, no one and I mean no one becomes President of the US if they are "dumb, stupid what have you. What is dumb or stupid right off the bat is saying any President was dumb or stupid. All presidents have had above average IQ's. People who call Presidents dumb, don't understand or refuse to acknowledge the Presidents true agenda. Take Obama for instance, If you believe in "capitalism and the free market" deciding who should and who shouldn't prosper, you would think Obama is an imbecile and has no understanding of how this thing called "capitalism and the free market" works by looking at all of the policies, regulations and overall agenda he has implemented.
I don't think his policies are stupid or uneducated. I know what his true agenda is, therefore all of his policies regulations make perfect sense. Genius if you ask me. I would rate Obama near the Genius level when it comes to Presidents and their ability to implement their agenda. I disagree with him on 90%. And would never vote for him. But I would never call him stupid, only politicly stupid people would call any President stupid.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

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GeoLaureate8
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8/2/2012 11:48:37 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Eloquent puppet.

I hate when people think that because a politician/leader is doing something bad it's "oh it must have been an accident, he's just too dumb."

Or maybe, youre the dumb one and his clever a$$ just fooled you and screwed you over. How about that.
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OllerupMand
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8/2/2012 12:16:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/1/2012 7:33:03 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
And with regards to Apollo, Obama has completely wrecked foreign policy. He is being nice to our enemies, making them think we look like softies, and has betrayed very important allies like Poland and Isreal to make new "friends" among our enemies.

You can't be seriuse. Point to a country who where friendly or looked towars you as a true allie towards you at the end of the Bush area.

Israel can't really turn their back to America. America being more or less their only allied and big financiel supporter and Poland is to scared of Russia to not want to be best of friends with both of the two biggest military powers in the world.
Apollo.11
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8/2/2012 12:18:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/1/2012 7:33:03 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
And with regards to Apollo, Obama has completely wrecked foreign policy. He is being nice to our enemies, making them think we look like softies, and has betrayed very important allies like Poland and Isreal to make new "friends" among our enemies.

Let's debate it.
Sapere Aude!
sadolite
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8/2/2012 6:54:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/2/2012 11:48:37 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Eloquent puppet.

I hate when people think that because a politician/leader is doing something bad it's "oh it must have been an accident, he's just too dumb."

Or maybe, youre the dumb one and his clever a$$ just fooled you and screwed you over. How about that.

Isn't that what I just said, but in a more PC way?
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Erik_Erikson
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8/2/2012 9:50:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Great.

Say what you will, but given the options available and the obstructionist attitude in congress: Obama has done a godlike job.

Bush had just bailed out the banks when Obama got into the White Man's House. He then had the balls enough to say to congress "We need to bail out the American people too", which, if there had been no stimulus, we could have been in double-digit unemployment at the moment.

But that's the problem. You can't prove that your policies didn't let something happen. That is too hard a hypothetical to sell. But he did it. He saved our economy from being modern hell hole. Had he not stimulated the economy, our long-term deficit would be much worse.

It's like using a defibrillator. The obstructionists can complain that we cannot afford the energy bill, but the lost in human capital would be far more expensive.

I'm going to vote for his second term. (Also, on a cynical note, things only happen in America when Congress and the Executive branch are owned by the same party)

If anything, the stimulus failed because Republican Governors kept rejecting it, thus sabotaging Obama in order to just get another Republican into the Executive branch.

http://useconomy.about.com...
In February 2009, Congress approved Obama's $787 billion economic stimulus package. It gave tax cuts, extended unemployment benefits and expedited funds for public works projects. In just seven months, it pumped $241.9 billion to the economy, stirring growth to a robust 3.9% by early 2010. Unemployment fell to 9.5%, from its 2009 peak of 10.2%. By March 30, 2011, nearly all ($633.5 billion) of the funds were spent. Growth slowed, and unemployment remained stuck at 9.1%. Despite the plan's success in ending the recession, some critics said it was ineffectual, while others said it wasn't enough.

//End 2 cents.
I know nothing. That is, probably, the first step to true knowledge (I'm not too sure).
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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8/3/2012 6:24:12 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
The Fool: you shoudn't take anything as true related to a slander campiegn.
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RoyLatham
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8/4/2012 11:59:38 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Obama, Bush, and Kerry all have IQs in the mid-120s. We have more uncertainty about Obama because he's taken great pains to conceal his records. They are all smart enough to be president.

Obama is neither dumb nor brilliant. He is an extreme leftist ideologue. That's the issue.
NixonianVolkswagen
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8/4/2012 1:39:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/4/2012 11:59:38 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
Obama, Bush, and Kerry all have IQs in the mid-120s. We have more uncertainty about Obama because he's taken great pains to conceal his records. They are all smart enough to be president.

Obama is neither dumb nor brilliant. He is an extreme leftist ideologue. That's the issue.

Can you define this, so I know whether it's genuine or hyperbole?
"There is an almost universal tendency, perhaps an inborn tendency, to suspect the good faith of a man who holds opinions that differ from our own opinions."

- Karl "Spartacus" Popper
RoyLatham
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8/5/2012 1:20:13 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/4/2012 1:39:54 PM, NixonianVolkswagen wrote:
Obama is neither dumb nor brilliant. He is an extreme leftist ideologue. That's the issue.

Can you define this, so I know whether it's genuine or hyperbole?

Obama's life experience is as a community organizer. The purpose of a community organizer is to obtain benefits from government. His mentors were all radicals in the Sol Alinsky model. Having no experience in private enterprise, the military, foreign policy, or anything else practical he must rely entirely upon ideological principles to govern.

Here is an overview of the Alinsky ideology and Obama's reliance on it: http://www.discoverthenetworks.org...
YYW
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8/5/2012 1:42:47 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/5/2012 1:20:13 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
At 8/4/2012 1:39:54 PM, NixonianVolkswagen wrote:
Obama is neither dumb nor brilliant. He is an extreme leftist ideologue. That's the issue.

Can you define this, so I know whether it's genuine or hyperbole?

Obama's life experience is as a community organizer. The purpose of a community organizer is to obtain benefits from government. His mentors were all radicals in the Sol Alinsky model. Having no experience in private enterprise, the military, foreign policy, or anything else practical he must rely entirely upon ideological principles to govern.

Here is an overview of the Alinsky ideology and Obama's reliance on it: http://www.discoverthenetworks.org...

I have heard many accounts of and references to this Sol Alinsky fellow (and his respective "radicalism" as it is commonly described), principally from Newt Gingrich. So my question is, what was so bad about him. Most of the people I have discussed with him generally agree that he tried to improve dilapidated urban living conditions, and the like, but others have alleged a more sinister agenda. What do you (personally) think of him, Roy? I'm really just curious here, because he is an incredibly controversial fellow (whose controversial persona has endured for the better part of two decades in mainstream media/political voices).
Tsar of DDO
Ron-Paul
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8/5/2012 8:43:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/1/2012 8:04:57 PM, NixonianVolkswagen wrote:
At 7/31/2012 6:37:20 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 7/31/2012 6:34:17 PM, Axiom wrote:
But I'll you this: he's a lot more charismatic than Mitt Romney--who has the personality of a cardboard box.

That's an insult to cardboard boxes...

Yeah, cardboard boxes might have Solid Snake inside them. It's difficult, but not impossible given his flipflopping, to credit Romney in that way.

Seriously though, I think Obama's clever. Not great, purely because he's quite humble (he talks about himself as a means to the end of reelection, but he doesn't have that self-regarding exuberance that so many Presidents have had), which limits his myth-making abilities, but solid. Probably too stolid in all fairness, his love of consensus has hampered his independence.

Basically, he's the Rockefeller Republican of yesteryear. Not all that exciting, but not bad.

At 8/1/2012 7:33:03 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
People make a good point here. Obama is not dumb, but his policies are dumb at best.

The unemployment statistics are not improving. The real unemployment rate is increasing, fewer people are looking for jobs, consumer confidence is dropping-again-, and GDP growth is decreasing. The economy is clearly not improving, but is in fact being wrecked further. America+Bush+Obama=Total Disaster.

The debt statistics are even worse. Obama has almost (again, liberals, this is almost) doubled the debt in four years! 6 trillion dollars added. That is some accomplishment. And if he is elected again, everyone should be assured that the debt will indeed double since 2008, most likely triple. And the longer-term damage (after 2016) will be even worse.

And with regards to Apollo, Obama has completely wrecked foreign policy. He is being nice to our enemies, making them think we look like softies, and has betrayed very important allies like Poland and Isreal to make new "friends" among our enemies.

I totally disagree with this. It's the one criticism which seems to me learned by rote. Don't get me wrong, I don't think he's a foreign policy genius (in truth I'm too ignorant to know), but this whole, "Bowing to the Middle-Easterners." weightless critique seems to me totally unsubstantiated. I'm not saying you personally are guilty of this, it's more a general point. Basically, Obama doesn't seem worse than "Regular President" + "Europeans like him better than average." The Israeli public has been a little negative, true; some racist comments emerging, but that, in short, is their problem.

You know, you basically posted BS. And your comment "In truth I'm too ignorant to know" at best does not help your case.

The "Bowing to the Middle-Easterners" idea does not work because Middle Easterners are in question here. Middle Easterners (most at least) are not capable of working diplomacy correctly, and Obama does not realize that. He is basically feeding our enemies. And in the process, he is turning our back on some of our most important allies.
Ron-Paul
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8/5/2012 8:45:40 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/2/2012 12:16:07 PM, OllerupMand wrote:
At 8/1/2012 7:33:03 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
And with regards to Apollo, Obama has completely wrecked foreign policy. He is being nice to our enemies, making them think we look like softies, and has betrayed very important allies like Poland and Isreal to make new "friends" among our enemies.

You can't be seriuse. Point to a country who where friendly or looked towars you as a true allie towards you at the end of the Bush area.

Poland, Isreal, Kuwait, and a few others.
Israel can't really turn their back to America. America being more or less their only allied and big financiel supporter and Poland is to scared of Russia to not want to be best of friends with both of the two biggest military powers in the world.

These are our allies. No case against it.
twocupcakes
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8/5/2012 8:49:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Obama is neither dumb nor brilliant. He is an extreme leftist ideologue. That's the issue.

Extreme leftist!? Obama is probably the most right leader of any western democracies. Sure,Obama is left of center. But no where close to extreme leftist.

http://www.politicalcompass.org...
Frederick53
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8/5/2012 9:33:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/5/2012 8:49:07 AM, twocupcakes wrote:
Obama is neither dumb nor brilliant. He is an extreme leftist ideologue. That's the issue.

Extreme leftist!? Obama is probably the most right leader of any western democracies. Sure,Obama is left of center. But no where close to extreme leftist.

http://www.politicalcompass.org...

Thank you for saving me the time.
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RoyLatham
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8/5/2012 10:16:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/5/2012 8:49:07 AM, twocupcakes wrote:
Obama is neither dumb nor brilliant. He is an extreme leftist ideologue. That's the issue.

Extreme leftist!? Obama is probably the most right leader of any western democracies. Sure,Obama is left of center. But no where close to extreme leftist.

http://www.politicalcompass.org...

It's quite obvious that someone with a serious agenda filled out the Political Compass questionnaire for President Obama, and for Romney as well. It proves nothing beyond garage in, garbage out.

In he old days, socialists worked by seizing private enterprise and running it. The new mode is rule by regulation. There are still some socialists who don't recognize the new methodology and believe that only seizing direct control is effective. Control by regulation is every bit as effective, probably more so, because it harnesses private enterprise to impose the will of the regime upon people. For example, the Americans with Disabilities Act allows individuals to file lawsuits to enforce the act. A restaurant owner was thus fined $220,000 for having a restroom mirror a half inch too high. Stalin in his finest moment could not have pulled off something so outrageous.

President Obama has stepped up regulation to 10,000 pages of new regulations per month. Bush enacted 28 new regulations costing over $1 billion each; Obama is already well over 100. Most of Obamacare is still ahead, with something like 140,000 pages of regulation expected. Dodd-Frank has taken control of the banking industry, with regulations that have effectively shut down loan to small business. The General Motors bailout has given control of the company to the unions, with $50 billion to fund their operations. The EPA has the power to control the energy sector in the most minute detail.

Obama has established the power to nullify laws passed by Congress. He won't enforce immigration laws, despite telling people that failing to enforce the laws violates the Constitution. He exempts his allies from civil rights legislation. He refused to give Florida the government list of illegals so voting roles could be checked; the Courts finally forced the Feds to hand over the documents.

His "you didn't build it" speech used "intelligence and hard work" as a laugh line. He has no understanding whatsoever of free enterprise. He explicitly says he wants to "spread the wealth around."

The key to establishing authoritarian control is to capture the economic system first. That's what Obama is doing. He's fine with civil rights of gays and minorities, but freedom of religion and free speech are targets. You will have the right to agree.

So, who wants to step up and debate that Obama is a conservative?
RoyLatham
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8/5/2012 10:28:38 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/5/2012 1:42:47 AM, YYW wrote:

I have heard many accounts of and references to this Sol Alinsky fellow (and his respective "radicalism" as it is commonly described), principally from Newt Gingrich. So my question is, what was so bad about him. Most of the people I have discussed with him generally agree that he tried to improve dilapidated urban living conditions, and the like, but others have alleged a more sinister agenda. What do you (personally) think of him, Roy? I'm really just curious here, because he is an incredibly controversial fellow (whose controversial persona has endured for the better part of two decades in mainstream media/political voices).

You should read the reference. Here's a shorter summary http://www.discoverthenetworks.org... Alinsky pushes a form of Marxism where revolution is fomented quietly, seizing power incrementally by hiding the goals of state control. They are not shy about discussing the methods with organizers, however, so it's no secret if you are interested. Alinsky's book "Rules for Radicals" spells it out. One of the key tactics is using personal attacks on opponents rather than promoting issues. "Kill Bush" signs were common and acceptable at anti-Bush rallies, whereas any opposition to Obama is immediately characterized as racist. That's classic Alinsky.

It's death to free markets and prosperity, and ultimately to free speech. Other than that, no problem.
Stephen_Hawkins
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8/5/2012 10:38:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/5/2012 8:49:07 AM, twocupcakes wrote:
Obama is neither dumb nor brilliant. He is an extreme leftist ideologue. That's the issue.

Extreme leftist!? Obama is probably the most right leader of any western democracies. Sure,Obama is left of center. But no where close to extreme leftist.

http://www.politicalcompass.org...

Obama's left of centre?

Americanised politcs, yes, he's left of centre. World-politics, he's still as right wing as they come. I think all statements should be translated between American Politics and Actual Politics...
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