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Obama's Anti Investment Tax Policy

JamesMadison
Posts: 381
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8/10/2012 7:22:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
When Barack Obama entered office, the marginal tax rate on capital gains and qualified dividends, which are important for economic growth, was 15%.

However, he is proposing raising that rate to 25%, a 67% tax increase on investment.

How is he doing this?

Well, here is how the math works out. The current rate is 15%. But, if the Bush tax cuts expire for the rich, as Obama propose doing, the rate will rise to 21.2% (5% direct rate increase and 1.2% from a stealth tax increase from limiting certain deduction selectively for the rich). The other 3.8% comes from Obamacare which imposes a new 3.8% tax on investment.

On net, that means 25% tax rates on capital gains and dividends.

Of course, we know from history that cutting investment taxes increases economic growth, creates jobs, and actually INCREASES revenue because of all of these effects.

But, as Obama said in 2008, he is just doing this for "purposes of fairness".

It doesn't seem that fair to the 23 Million unemployed.
As a general rule, you'll find that, when a conservative is talking about policy, history, economics, or something serious, liberals are nowhere to be found. But, as soon as a conservative mentions Obama's birthplace or personal life, liberals are everywhere, only to dissappear again when evidence enters the discussion.
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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8/10/2012 7:26:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/10/2012 7:22:47 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
When Barack Obama entered office, the marginal tax rate on capital gains and qualified dividends, which are important for economic growth, was 15%.

However, he is proposing raising that rate to 25%, a 67% tax increase on investment.

How is he doing this?

Well, here is how the math works out. The current rate is 15%. But, if the Bush tax cuts expire for the rich, as Obama propose doing, the rate will rise to 21.2% (5% direct rate increase and 1.2% from a stealth tax increase from limiting certain deduction selectively for the rich). The other 3.8% comes from Obamacare which imposes a new 3.8% tax on investment.

On net, that means 25% tax rates on capital gains and dividends.

Of course, we know from history that cutting investment taxes increases economic growth, creates jobs, and actually INCREASES revenue because of all of these effects.

But, as Obama said in 2008, he is just doing this for "purposes of fairness".

It doesn't seem that fair to the 23 Million unemployed.

That was one of the dumbest things he's ever said, and it wasn't even a gaffe.

He said, even if increased cap. gains taxes meant decreased investment and decreased revenue, it should still be done for fairness.

THIS IS THE MAN WE ELECTED AS PRESIDENT!
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
JamesMadison
Posts: 381
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8/10/2012 7:31:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/10/2012 7:26:50 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/10/2012 7:22:47 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
When Barack Obama entered office, the marginal tax rate on capital gains and qualified dividends, which are important for economic growth, was 15%.

However, he is proposing raising that rate to 25%, a 67% tax increase on investment.

How is he doing this?

Well, here is how the math works out. The current rate is 15%. But, if the Bush tax cuts expire for the rich, as Obama propose doing, the rate will rise to 21.2% (5% direct rate increase and 1.2% from a stealth tax increase from limiting certain deduction selectively for the rich). The other 3.8% comes from Obamacare which imposes a new 3.8% tax on investment.

On net, that means 25% tax rates on capital gains and dividends.

Of course, we know from history that cutting investment taxes increases economic growth, creates jobs, and actually INCREASES revenue because of all of these effects.

But, as Obama said in 2008, he is just doing this for "purposes of fairness".

It doesn't seem that fair to the 23 Million unemployed.

That was one of the dumbest things he's ever said, and it wasn't even a gaffe.

He said, even if increased cap. gains taxes meant decreased investment and decreased revenue, it should still be done for fairness.

THIS IS THE MAN WE ELECTED AS PRESIDENT!

Agreed. And, the worst part is, as you said, is that it wasn't a gaffe.

It was an in context statement of his beliefs.
As a general rule, you'll find that, when a conservative is talking about policy, history, economics, or something serious, liberals are nowhere to be found. But, as soon as a conservative mentions Obama's birthplace or personal life, liberals are everywhere, only to dissappear again when evidence enters the discussion.
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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8/10/2012 8:21:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Other countries have capital gains rates higher than that, believe me. In Denmark it is about 60%, China 48%, etc.

Though, increasing taxes on capital gains isn't the best way of getting revenue or economic growth. If you make income taxed as income regardless of source (capital gains, dividends, earned income) like Ronald Reagan did, this is something I favor.

But you'd have to cut the rates and the deductions and loopholes, and credits so that it is more fair, something along the lines of the Bowles Simpson plan.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
MrBrooks
Posts: 831
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8/10/2012 8:24:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/10/2012 8:21:10 PM, Contra wrote:
Other countries have capital gains rates higher than that, believe me. In Denmark it is about 60%, China 48%, etc.

We all know that Europe is a socialist paradise, you don't need to remind us.
JamesMadison
Posts: 381
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8/10/2012 8:53:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/10/2012 8:21:10 PM, Contra wrote:
Other countries have capital gains rates higher than that, believe me. In Denmark it is about 60%, China 48%, etc.

Though, increasing taxes on capital gains isn't the best way of getting revenue or economic growth. If you make income taxed as income regardless of source (capital gains, dividends, earned income) like Ronald Reagan did, this is something I favor.

But you'd have to cut the rates and the deductions and loopholes, and credits so that it is more fair, something along the lines of the Bowles Simpson plan.

Some other countries have higher rates, that doesn't make it good. Higher capital gains tax rates uniformly hurt growth.

And, don't forget, Reagan cut the capital gains tax rate from 28% to 20% in 1981 and then agreed to bring it back to 28% in a compromise that brought the top rate from 50% to 28%.

I have yet to see Obama propose anything of that sort.
As a general rule, you'll find that, when a conservative is talking about policy, history, economics, or something serious, liberals are nowhere to be found. But, as soon as a conservative mentions Obama's birthplace or personal life, liberals are everywhere, only to dissappear again when evidence enters the discussion.
Aaronroy
Posts: 749
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8/10/2012 9:29:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/10/2012 8:24:32 PM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 8/10/2012 8:21:10 PM, Contra wrote:
Other countries have capital gains rates higher than that, believe me. In Denmark it is about 60%, China 48%, etc.

We all know that Europe is a socialist paradise, you don't need to remind us.

Really uncalled for, and not even true. All of Western Europe has a robust free-market economy. The only thing 'socialist' about it is that most of these countries have a strong welfare system and universal health care, but that's proper terminology if you ask me ('socialist'.)

If you ask me, Scandinavia is doing great.

on-topic: I really don't support an outrageous high capitol gains tax like what was proposed, but a fixed 15% is retarded. It should treated as income and should progressively scale as such.
turn down for h'what
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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8/10/2012 9:33:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/10/2012 9:29:43 PM, Aaronroy wrote:
At 8/10/2012 8:24:32 PM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 8/10/2012 8:21:10 PM, Contra wrote:
Other countries have capital gains rates higher than that, believe me. In Denmark it is about 60%, China 48%, etc.

We all know that Europe is a socialist paradise, you don't need to remind us.

Really uncalled for, and not even true. All of Western Europe has a robust free-market economy. The only thing 'socialist' about it is that most of these countries have a strong welfare system and universal health care, but that's proper terminology if you ask me ('socialist'.)

They have some burdensome regulations though regarding unemployment and hiring practices, which causes them to have lower employment rates than we do. However, their safety net is strong.

If you ask me, Scandinavia is doing great.

on-topic: I really don't support an outrageous high capitol gains tax like what was proposed, but a fixed 15% is retarded. It should treated as income and should progressively scale as such.

Yes this ^
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Apollo.11
Posts: 3,478
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8/10/2012 9:45:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/10/2012 8:24:32 PM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 8/10/2012 8:21:10 PM, Contra wrote:
Other countries have capital gains rates higher than that, believe me. In Denmark it is about 60%, China 48%, etc.

We all know that Europe is a socialist paradise, you don't need to remind us.

China is in Europe?!
Sapere Aude!
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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8/10/2012 9:46:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/10/2012 9:45:32 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 8/10/2012 8:24:32 PM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 8/10/2012 8:21:10 PM, Contra wrote:
Other countries have capital gains rates higher than that, believe me. In Denmark it is about 60%, China 48%, etc.

We all know that Europe is a socialist paradise, you don't need to remind us.

China is in Europe?!

Smartass
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
JamesMadison
Posts: 381
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8/10/2012 9:50:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Before we go off praising Europe, we need to remember that the European welfare states have led to slow GDP growth, low job growth, and high unemployment.
As a general rule, you'll find that, when a conservative is talking about policy, history, economics, or something serious, liberals are nowhere to be found. But, as soon as a conservative mentions Obama's birthplace or personal life, liberals are everywhere, only to dissappear again when evidence enters the discussion.
Apollo.11
Posts: 3,478
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8/10/2012 9:52:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/10/2012 9:46:53 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 8/10/2012 9:45:32 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 8/10/2012 8:24:32 PM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 8/10/2012 8:21:10 PM, Contra wrote:
Other countries have capital gains rates higher than that, believe me. In Denmark it is about 60%, China 48%, etc.

We all know that Europe is a socialist paradise, you don't need to remind us.

China is in Europe?!

Smartass

Yep. :)
Sapere Aude!
NixonianVolkswagen
Posts: 481
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8/11/2012 1:58:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/10/2012 9:50:58 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
Before we go off praising Europe, we need to remember that the European welfare states have led to slow GDP growth, low job growth, and high unemployment.

In fairness, it should be appended that on the other hand the EU is the largest economy in the world.
"There is an almost universal tendency, perhaps an inborn tendency, to suspect the good faith of a man who holds opinions that differ from our own opinions."

- Karl "Spartacus" Popper
JamesMadison
Posts: 381
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8/11/2012 4:42:55 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/11/2012 1:58:34 AM, NixonianVolkswagen wrote:
At 8/10/2012 9:50:58 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
Before we go off praising Europe, we need to remember that the European welfare states have led to slow GDP growth, low job growth, and high unemployment.

In fairness, it should be appended that on the other hand the EU is the largest economy in the world.

As long as it is recognized that, on a per capita basis, the USA has about 50% higher GDP... which is how it should be looked at.
As a general rule, you'll find that, when a conservative is talking about policy, history, economics, or something serious, liberals are nowhere to be found. But, as soon as a conservative mentions Obama's birthplace or personal life, liberals are everywhere, only to dissappear again when evidence enters the discussion.
NixonianVolkswagen
Posts: 481
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8/11/2012 5:44:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/11/2012 4:42:55 AM, JamesMadison wrote:
At 8/11/2012 1:58:34 AM, NixonianVolkswagen wrote:
At 8/10/2012 9:50:58 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
Before we go off praising Europe, we need to remember that the European welfare states have led to slow GDP growth, low job growth, and high unemployment.

In fairness, it should be appended that on the other hand the EU is the largest economy in the world.


As long as it is recognized that, on a per capita basis, the USA has about 50% higher GDP... which is how it should be looked at.

Sure, my point is just that, in order to approach objectivity, the standards Europe's being held to need to be explicit, and its strengths as well as its weaknesses ought to be highlighted.

Given that two World Wars were fought to lesser and greater degrees on its soil at the beginning of the 20th century, and that in latter years it has integrated former Soviet satellites into itself, Europe isn't doing terribly. It still has a whole host of problems, mind you.
"There is an almost universal tendency, perhaps an inborn tendency, to suspect the good faith of a man who holds opinions that differ from our own opinions."

- Karl "Spartacus" Popper
JamesMadison
Posts: 381
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8/11/2012 12:29:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/11/2012 5:44:11 AM, NixonianVolkswagen wrote:
At 8/11/2012 4:42:55 AM, JamesMadison wrote:
At 8/11/2012 1:58:34 AM, NixonianVolkswagen wrote:
At 8/10/2012 9:50:58 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
Before we go off praising Europe, we need to remember that the European welfare states have led to slow GDP growth, low job growth, and high unemployment.

In fairness, it should be appended that on the other hand the EU is the largest economy in the world.


As long as it is recognized that, on a per capita basis, the USA has about 50% higher GDP... which is how it should be looked at.

Sure, my point is just that, in order to approach objectivity, the standards Europe's being held to need to be explicit, and its strengths as well as its weaknesses ought to be highlighted.

Given that two World Wars were fought to lesser and greater degrees on its soil at the beginning of the 20th century, and that in latter years it has integrated former Soviet satellites into itself, Europe isn't doing terribly. It still has a whole host of problems, mind you.

Of course it does.

But, we have to remember that the large welfare states and high taxes have a lot to do with differences in GDP per capita.
As a general rule, you'll find that, when a conservative is talking about policy, history, economics, or something serious, liberals are nowhere to be found. But, as soon as a conservative mentions Obama's birthplace or personal life, liberals are everywhere, only to dissappear again when evidence enters the discussion.