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People on Welfare Shouldn't be Allowed...

MrBrooks
Posts: 831
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8/10/2012 7:31:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
To vote; if you are a ward to the state and living off the (compulsory) charity of your fellow man, you shouldn't get to vote.
LaissezFaire
Posts: 2,050
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8/10/2012 7:33:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Nobody should be allowed to vote.
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imabench
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8/10/2012 7:34:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
People whose income comes from taxpayers = congressmen, judges, governors, cops, firemen, etc.

Try again
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JamesMadison
Posts: 381
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8/10/2012 7:35:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
No way... that means Obama loses half of his voter base.
As a general rule, you'll find that, when a conservative is talking about policy, history, economics, or something serious, liberals are nowhere to be found. But, as soon as a conservative mentions Obama's birthplace or personal life, liberals are everywhere, only to dissappear again when evidence enters the discussion.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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8/10/2012 7:36:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Voting isn't a privilege you can revoke whenever it suits you. The essence of a democracy is the idea that everyone has the right to determine their own futures and limit the actions of the government. Rights can only be taken away when a crime isn't committed. Welfare isn't a crime.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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8/10/2012 7:37:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/10/2012 7:34:33 PM, imabench wrote:
People whose income comes from taxpayers = congressmen, judges, governors, cops, firemen, etc.

Try again

To be fair, charity(welfare) and salary(public jobs) aren't really the same thing.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
MrBrooks
Posts: 831
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8/10/2012 7:37:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/10/2012 7:34:33 PM, imabench wrote:
People whose income comes from taxpayers = congressmen, judges, governors, cops, firemen, etc.

Try again

Oh ho ho, I spy semantics off the star board side! Mr. Welshie, fasten down the hatches and break into our reserves of rationality!

Living off of welfare is different from working for the government. We GIVE money to welfare recipients in return for NOTHING, while we give money to a police officer in return for him doing his job-which is to protect us from criminals.
thett3
Posts: 14,348
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8/10/2012 7:37:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
It's ridiculous to have those who live solely off of others taxes have a say in how high those taxes should be.
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JamesMadison
Posts: 381
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8/10/2012 7:37:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/10/2012 7:36:04 PM, 000ike wrote:
Voting isn't a privilege you can revoke whenever it suits you. The essence of a democracy is the idea that everyone has the right to determine their own futures and limit the actions of the government. Rights can only be taken away when a crime isn't committed. Welfare isn't a crime.

I thought theft was illegal?
As a general rule, you'll find that, when a conservative is talking about policy, history, economics, or something serious, liberals are nowhere to be found. But, as soon as a conservative mentions Obama's birthplace or personal life, liberals are everywhere, only to dissappear again when evidence enters the discussion.
MrBrooks
Posts: 831
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8/10/2012 7:38:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/10/2012 7:36:04 PM, 000ike wrote:
Voting isn't a privilege you can revoke whenever it suits you. The essence of a democracy is the idea that everyone has the right to determine their own futures and limit the actions of the government. Rights can only be taken away when a crime isn't committed. Welfare isn't a crime.

Welfare isn't compulsory; if people want to vote they can get off welfare and get a job.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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8/10/2012 7:38:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/10/2012 7:36:04 PM, 000ike wrote:
Voting isn't a privilege you can revoke whenever it suits you. The essence of a democracy is the idea that everyone has the right to determine their own futures and limit the actions of the government. Rights can only be taken away when a crime isn't committed. Welfare isn't a crime.

When a crime IS committed*
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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8/10/2012 7:39:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/10/2012 7:37:59 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
At 8/10/2012 7:36:04 PM, 000ike wrote:
Voting isn't a privilege you can revoke whenever it suits you. The essence of a democracy is the idea that everyone has the right to determine their own futures and limit the actions of the government. Rights can only be taken away when a crime isn't committed. Welfare isn't a crime.


I thought theft was illegal?

Who's stealing the government or the recipient?...
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
JamesMadison
Posts: 381
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8/10/2012 7:39:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/10/2012 7:39:00 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/10/2012 7:37:59 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
At 8/10/2012 7:36:04 PM, 000ike wrote:
Voting isn't a privilege you can revoke whenever it suits you. The essence of a democracy is the idea that everyone has the right to determine their own futures and limit the actions of the government. Rights can only be taken away when a crime isn't committed. Welfare isn't a crime.


I thought theft was illegal?

Who's stealing the government or the recipient?...

Fair point. The government is.
As a general rule, you'll find that, when a conservative is talking about policy, history, economics, or something serious, liberals are nowhere to be found. But, as soon as a conservative mentions Obama's birthplace or personal life, liberals are everywhere, only to dissappear again when evidence enters the discussion.
MrBrooks
Posts: 831
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8/10/2012 7:40:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Fair point. The government is.

Hooking people on welfare and then using it to compel the poor to vote for your party has become a political tactic, which could only be ended if those on entitlements like welfare have to give up their right to vote until they get off of welfare.
JamesMadison
Posts: 381
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8/10/2012 7:41:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/10/2012 7:40:25 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
So receiving aid should preclude you from your basic constitutional rights?!

The existence of that aid is already precluding others from their basic constitutional rights.
As a general rule, you'll find that, when a conservative is talking about policy, history, economics, or something serious, liberals are nowhere to be found. But, as soon as a conservative mentions Obama's birthplace or personal life, liberals are everywhere, only to dissappear again when evidence enters the discussion.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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8/10/2012 7:42:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/10/2012 7:38:13 PM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 8/10/2012 7:36:04 PM, 000ike wrote:
Voting isn't a privilege you can revoke whenever it suits you. The essence of a democracy is the idea that everyone has the right to determine their own futures and limit the actions of the government. Rights can only be taken away when a crime isn't committed. Welfare isn't a crime.

Welfare isn't compulsory; if people want to vote they can get off welfare and get a job.

It's not even like I support the entitled leeches that exploit the system. I realize that's a problem, but that there are also legitimate cases where welfare is necessary otherwise people lose their homes and can't feed their families.

I think it's just ignorant, careless thinking to use welfare queens as a basis to eliminate the whole program.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
MrBrooks
Posts: 831
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8/10/2012 7:42:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/10/2012 7:40:25 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
So receiving aid should preclude you from your basic constitutional rights?!

Receiving something for nothing, and being a drag on society should preclude you from being able to vote. I'm not advocating taking away natural rights, I'm only advocating that the people dependent on the taxpayers not have a say in how much money they get from the taxpayers.
JamesMadison
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8/10/2012 7:43:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/10/2012 7:42:17 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/10/2012 7:38:13 PM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 8/10/2012 7:36:04 PM, 000ike wrote:
Voting isn't a privilege you can revoke whenever it suits you. The essence of a democracy is the idea that everyone has the right to determine their own futures and limit the actions of the government. Rights can only be taken away when a crime isn't committed. Welfare isn't a crime.

Welfare isn't compulsory; if people want to vote they can get off welfare and get a job.

It's not even like I support the entitled leeches that exploit the system. I realize that's a problem, but that there are also legitimate cases where welfare is necessary otherwise people lose their homes and can't feed their families.

I think it's just ignorant, careless thinking to use welfare queens as a basis to eliminate the whole program.

I bet that, if you were around in 1996, you would've opposed welfare reform, just like Obama did at the time.
As a general rule, you'll find that, when a conservative is talking about policy, history, economics, or something serious, liberals are nowhere to be found. But, as soon as a conservative mentions Obama's birthplace or personal life, liberals are everywhere, only to dissappear again when evidence enters the discussion.
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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8/10/2012 7:44:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/10/2012 7:36:04 PM, 000ike wrote:
Voting isn't a privilege you can revoke whenever it suits you. The essence of a democracy is the idea that everyone has the right to determine their own futures and limit the actions of the government. Rights can only be taken away when a crime is committed. Welfare isn't a crime.

+1
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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8/10/2012 7:44:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/10/2012 7:43:09 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
At 8/10/2012 7:42:17 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/10/2012 7:38:13 PM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 8/10/2012 7:36:04 PM, 000ike wrote:
Voting isn't a privilege you can revoke whenever it suits you. The essence of a democracy is the idea that everyone has the right to determine their own futures and limit the actions of the government. Rights can only be taken away when a crime isn't committed. Welfare isn't a crime.

Welfare isn't compulsory; if people want to vote they can get off welfare and get a job.

It's not even like I support the entitled leeches that exploit the system. I realize that's a problem, but that there are also legitimate cases where welfare is necessary otherwise people lose their homes and can't feed their families.

I think it's just ignorant, careless thinking to use welfare queens as a basis to eliminate the whole program.


I bet that, if you were around in 1996, you would've opposed welfare reform, just like Obama did at the time.

Nope. Clinton's brand of Liberalism was perfect. I definitely don't like LBJ, and Carter wasn't very good.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
MrBrooks
Posts: 831
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8/10/2012 7:45:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/10/2012 7:42:17 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/10/2012 7:38:13 PM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 8/10/2012 7:36:04 PM, 000ike wrote:
Voting isn't a privilege you can revoke whenever it suits you. The essence of a democracy is the idea that everyone has the right to determine their own futures and limit the actions of the government. Rights can only be taken away when a crime isn't committed. Welfare isn't a crime.

Welfare isn't compulsory; if people want to vote they can get off welfare and get a job.

It's not even like I support the entitled leeches that exploit the system. I realize that's a problem, but that there are also legitimate cases where welfare is necessary otherwise people lose their homes and can't feed their families.

I think it's just ignorant, careless thinking to use welfare queens as a basis to eliminate the whole program.

Welfare isn't being used for what it was intended to be used for originally, which was the help the poor. Welfare is just giving the poor an excuse to remain poor, and it is giving them the sustenance they need to do nothing to better their lives. It is much easier for someone to live off of welfare than to get an entry level job and work their way up to a respectable job, which is why you have so many 4th generation welfare recipients.
JamesMadison
Posts: 381
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8/10/2012 7:45:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/10/2012 7:44:57 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/10/2012 7:43:09 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
At 8/10/2012 7:42:17 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/10/2012 7:38:13 PM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 8/10/2012 7:36:04 PM, 000ike wrote:
Voting isn't a privilege you can revoke whenever it suits you. The essence of a democracy is the idea that everyone has the right to determine their own futures and limit the actions of the government. Rights can only be taken away when a crime isn't committed. Welfare isn't a crime.

Welfare isn't compulsory; if people want to vote they can get off welfare and get a job.

It's not even like I support the entitled leeches that exploit the system. I realize that's a problem, but that there are also legitimate cases where welfare is necessary otherwise people lose their homes and can't feed their families.

I think it's just ignorant, careless thinking to use welfare queens as a basis to eliminate the whole program.


I bet that, if you were around in 1996, you would've opposed welfare reform, just like Obama did at the time.

Nope. Clinton's brand of Liberalism was perfect. I definitely don't like LBJ, and Carter wasn't very good.

So, if Clinton's brand of liberalism was perfect, then you find Obama's brand too far left.

Because, Clinton's brand was more moderate...
As a general rule, you'll find that, when a conservative is talking about policy, history, economics, or something serious, liberals are nowhere to be found. But, as soon as a conservative mentions Obama's birthplace or personal life, liberals are everywhere, only to dissappear again when evidence enters the discussion.
MrBrooks
Posts: 831
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8/10/2012 7:46:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Nope. Clinton's brand of Liberalism was perfect. I definitely don't like LBJ, and Carter wasn't very good.

I will concede that Clinton was tolerable, and that he was a far better president than George W. Bush.
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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8/10/2012 7:47:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/10/2012 7:46:21 PM, MrBrooks wrote:
Nope. Clinton's brand of Liberalism was perfect. I definitely don't like LBJ, and Carter wasn't very good.

I will concede that Clinton was tolerable, and that he was a far better president than George W. Bush.

We all agree.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
JamesMadison
Posts: 381
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8/10/2012 7:48:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/10/2012 7:47:00 PM, MrBrooks wrote:
I will also tell you a dirty secret.... I would have voted for Hilary Clinton over John McCain! Oh god, the shame!

I get this.

After all, they were literally a hair apart on the issues. And, if Hillary Clinton were president, Republicans would go against her while the Democrats would be with her... moving the whole spectrum to the right. Mccain would have had the opposite effect.
As a general rule, you'll find that, when a conservative is talking about policy, history, economics, or something serious, liberals are nowhere to be found. But, as soon as a conservative mentions Obama's birthplace or personal life, liberals are everywhere, only to dissappear again when evidence enters the discussion.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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8/10/2012 7:49:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/10/2012 7:45:51 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
At 8/10/2012 7:44:57 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/10/2012 7:43:09 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
At 8/10/2012 7:42:17 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/10/2012 7:38:13 PM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 8/10/2012 7:36:04 PM, 000ike wrote:
Voting isn't a privilege you can revoke whenever it suits you. The essence of a democracy is the idea that everyone has the right to determine their own futures and limit the actions of the government. Rights can only be taken away when a crime isn't committed. Welfare isn't a crime.

Welfare isn't compulsory; if people want to vote they can get off welfare and get a job.

It's not even like I support the entitled leeches that exploit the system. I realize that's a problem, but that there are also legitimate cases where welfare is necessary otherwise people lose their homes and can't feed their families.

I think it's just ignorant, careless thinking to use welfare queens as a basis to eliminate the whole program.


I bet that, if you were around in 1996, you would've opposed welfare reform, just like Obama did at the time.

Nope. Clinton's brand of Liberalism was perfect. I definitely don't like LBJ, and Carter wasn't very good.


So, if Clinton's brand of liberalism was perfect, then you find Obama's brand too far left.

Because, Clinton's brand was more moderate...

Too far left is the wrong phrase. It's not as strict, which isn't too bad. Obama's talents lie in his foreign policy.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
JamesMadison
Posts: 381
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8/10/2012 7:49:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Wait a minute.

Before we all agree that Clinton's brand of liberalism was perfect, we have to recognize that all of the liberals saying this are admitting that Obama's brand is too far left.. because Clinton was more moderate.
As a general rule, you'll find that, when a conservative is talking about policy, history, economics, or something serious, liberals are nowhere to be found. But, as soon as a conservative mentions Obama's birthplace or personal life, liberals are everywhere, only to dissappear again when evidence enters the discussion.
MrBrooks
Posts: 831
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8/10/2012 7:50:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/10/2012 7:48:17 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
At 8/10/2012 7:47:00 PM, MrBrooks wrote:
I will also tell you a dirty secret.... I would have voted for Hilary Clinton over John McCain! Oh god, the shame!


I get this.

After all, they were literally a hair apart on the issues. And, if Hillary Clinton were president, Republicans would go against her while the Democrats would be with her... moving the whole spectrum to the right. Mccain would have had the opposite effect.

That, and I knew that McCain's "maverick" persona was just a spin on the fact that he was really just a liberal that accidentally joined the Republican Party. Either way I felt secure in 2007 knowing that we would have had an experienced politician in the White House no matter which party won... and then Obama got the nomination.