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New Paradigm?

NixonianVolkswagen
Posts: 481
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8/14/2012 6:55:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Republicans make better Congressmen, Democrats superior Presidents.

I've been mulling this over, I'm not sure if I entirely believe it, but it is quite neat. The idea is that we've entered an era where

i) Republicans are arguing from principle a-lot. Their consistency has been taken up a notch by the election of the Tea Partiers, who for all their flaws, are staying true to a genuine vision. I believe it's the wrong one, but they're mostly genuine. This has been lacking in politics, and on that basis, The Republican Party is moving towards a sincerer platform, which tries more to deliver that which their constituency wants. Plus, their collective obstructionism and discipline shows a certain organizational flair which could be an efficient source of policy.

ii) Republicans aren't taking the Presidency seriously. Sarah Palin, Romney - these aren't people worthy of the Presidency. Whereas Democrats have begun, in Clinton & Obama, throwing out moderates who are capable of leading, and have bipartisan desires, a willingness to work with a hostile Congress. Better able to represent American diversity of opinion, also.

It's a weird dynamic, because the Republicans who are running for Congress are becoming, seemingly, more principled, whilst those trying for the Presidency are apparently willing to compromise their integrity to attain victory in a spiraling fashion. Meanwhile, Democratic Congressmen have become, to some extent, Republican-lite, and are willing to special interest with the best of them.

Anyways, I'm not sure I've convinced myself, but I thought it would be an interesting discussion, and might spark some agreement, given its decoupling of the branches of government, across the forum's divides.
"There is an almost universal tendency, perhaps an inborn tendency, to suspect the good faith of a man who holds opinions that differ from our own opinions."

- Karl "Spartacus" Popper
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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8/14/2012 8:56:56 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Clinton started out as a convinced leftist, but moderated substantially when the leftist policies did not work. He came around to genuine bipartisanship and worked with Gingrich and the Republican Congress to make genuine accomplishments.

Obama was and remains a very hard-over leftist. He refuses to even talk to Republicans, small business organizations, or anyone who disagrees with him. Many hoped he would turn out to be a compromiser like Clinton, but that hasn't happened.

What Obama has accomplished is that the federal bureaucracy now has enough power to effectively make laws without Congress. The EPA, the ADA, Dodd-Frank, and Obamacare have put legislative authority in every important area in the hand of bureaucrats. Socialism can now be implemented through rules rather than direct government management.
NixonianVolkswagen
Posts: 481
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8/14/2012 9:02:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/14/2012 8:56:56 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
Clinton started out as a convinced leftist, but moderated substantially when the leftist policies did not work. He came around to genuine bipartisanship and worked with Gingrich and the Republican Congress to make genuine accomplishments.

Obama was and remains a very hard-over leftist. He refuses to even talk to Republicans, small business organizations, or anyone who disagrees with him. Many hoped he would turn out to be a compromiser like Clinton, but that hasn't happened.

What Obama has accomplished is that the federal bureaucracy now has enough power to effectively make laws without Congress. The EPA, the ADA, Dodd-Frank, and Obamacare have put legislative authority in every important area in the hand of bureaucrats. Socialism can now be implemented through rules rather than direct government management.

This is demonstrably false. If it was hyperbole, could you please amend it to that which you intended?

Yes, Obama believes in the Imperial Presidency. Frighteningly, the Supreme Court seemed to too in their healthcare ruling. However, I disagree with the socialism thing, although I won't immediately dive off topic unless you substantiate your claim.
"There is an almost universal tendency, perhaps an inborn tendency, to suspect the good faith of a man who holds opinions that differ from our own opinions."

- Karl "Spartacus" Popper
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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8/14/2012 9:21:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/14/2012 8:56:56 AM, RoyLatham wrote:

What Obama has accomplished is that the federal bureaucracy now has enough power to effectively make laws without Congress. Obamacare have put legislative authority in every important area in the hand of bureaucrats.

I'd like to discuss this (or debate this, if you'd like), but I'd also like to approach one claim at a time, starting with this one. Care to substantiate it?
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,225
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8/14/2012 10:00:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Clinton was way more bipartisan than Obama.

Obama tells the minority to sit in the back of the bus, refuses to discuss anything with them.

The house can't get a single thing past Obama and his Senate. Was Gingrich really that much better than Boehner? Or more to the truth- is Obama really that much worse than Clinton?

To be fair, Lewinsky may have freed Clinton from party constraints, but Obama is well protected indeed.
NixonianVolkswagen
Posts: 481
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8/14/2012 10:04:09 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/14/2012 10:00:14 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
Clinton was way more bipartisan than Obama.

Obama tells the minority to sit in the back of the bus, refuses to discuss anything with them.

The house can't get a single thing past Obama and his Senate. Was Gingrich really that much better than Boehner? Or more to the truth- is Obama really that much worse than Clinton?

To be fair, Lewinsky may have freed Clinton from party constraints, but Obama is well protected indeed.

The opposite, rhetorically at-least, he's told Republicans that he's open to their ideas. The fact that Obamacare originated in The Heritage Foundation, I believe?, is often stressed.
"There is an almost universal tendency, perhaps an inborn tendency, to suspect the good faith of a man who holds opinions that differ from our own opinions."

- Karl "Spartacus" Popper
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,225
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8/14/2012 10:06:30 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/14/2012 10:04:09 AM, NixonianVolkswagen wrote:
At 8/14/2012 10:00:14 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
Clinton was way more bipartisan than Obama.

Obama tells the minority to sit in the back of the bus, refuses to discuss anything with them.

The house can't get a single thing past Obama and his Senate. Was Gingrich really that much better than Boehner? Or more to the truth- is Obama really that much worse than Clinton?

To be fair, Lewinsky may have freed Clinton from party constraints, but Obama is well protected indeed.

The opposite, rhetorically at-least, he's told Republicans that he's open to their ideas. The fact that Obamacare originated in The Heritage Foundation, I believe?, is often stressed.
NixonianVolkswagen
Posts: 481
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8/14/2012 10:18:44 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/14/2012 10:06:30 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 8/14/2012 10:04:09 AM, NixonianVolkswagen wrote:
At 8/14/2012 10:00:14 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
Clinton was way more bipartisan than Obama.

Obama tells the minority to sit in the back of the bus, refuses to discuss anything with them.

The house can't get a single thing past Obama and his Senate. Was Gingrich really that much better than Boehner? Or more to the truth- is Obama really that much worse than Clinton?

To be fair, Lewinsky may have freed Clinton from party constraints, but Obama is well protected indeed.

The opposite, rhetorically at-least, he's told Republicans that he's open to their ideas. The fact that Obamacare originated in The Heritage Foundation, I believe?, is often stressed.

Yeah, but when you're talking about "discussing", the lines are quite blurred between rhetoric and policymaking. Obama is willing to talk to Republicans and listen to what they have to say, are you claiming that whilst this is true, he's not actually enacting their desires?
"There is an almost universal tendency, perhaps an inborn tendency, to suspect the good faith of a man who holds opinions that differ from our own opinions."

- Karl "Spartacus" Popper