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Ryan Medicare Plan

RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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8/15/2012 11:21:06 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
The Ryan Medicare Plan is:

1. Those 55+ must keep existing Medicare.
2. When those ow under 55 reach 65, they have two options:
a. keep existing Medicare
b. take a voucher from the government to buy health insurance equivalent to Medicare.
3. The government takes bids on supplying care equal to what Medicare provides. The value of the voucher is set at the second lowest bid.
4. Medicare recipients can buy the insurance with the voucher at the second lowest price. If they chose the lowest bid insurance, they get a check for the difference from the government. This provides an incentive to lower costs below the second-lowest bid.
5. Recipients can change plans every year, going back to regular Medicare if they choose.
6. The $714 bilion Obama took out of Medicare is restored to the Trust Fund.

This, as Democrats say, "ends Medicare as we know it."
TheBossToss
Posts: 154
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8/15/2012 12:20:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
It looks solid, to me. It adds incentives to a system that desperately needs it. I dunno why it would "end Medicare as we know it", or why that is even a bad thing, considering Medicare as we know it is driving us bankrupt.
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That was real intellectual property theft. They used her idea for their own profit and fame. When I pirate, I am usually downloading textbooks that I cannot afford to purchase on my own and that I do not want my parents to spend money on.
-royalpaladin
GeoLaureate8
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8/15/2012 12:34:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
*Facepalm*

Roy, don't tell me youre on the Ryan train. C'mon.
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imabench
Posts: 21,216
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8/15/2012 12:43:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
its already been proven by politifact that the claim "end medicare as we know it" was blatantly false. Hell they crowned it the "lie of the year" in 2011

http://www.politifact.com...
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JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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8/15/2012 12:55:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/15/2012 11:21:06 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
The Ryan Medicare Plan is:

1. Those 55+ must keep existing Medicare.
2. When those ow under 55 reach 65, they have two options:
a. keep existing Medicare

Are you sure? I thought there was an option for SS, but not for Medicare.

"Retention of Existing Program. Retains current Medicare Program for those eligible prior to 1 January 2021."

I don't see anything to the contrary, can you link and quote the relevant portion of Ryan's plan?
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
NixonianVolkswagen
Posts: 481
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8/15/2012 1:10:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/15/2012 11:21:06 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
The Ryan Medicare Plan is:

1. Those 55+ must keep existing Medicare.
2. When those ow under 55 reach 65, they have two options:
a. keep existing Medicare
b. take a voucher from the government to buy health insurance equivalent to Medicare.
3. The government takes bids on supplying care equal to what Medicare provides. The value of the voucher is set at the second lowest bid.

Moral hazard? Bids will be lower than is feasible.

4. Medicare recipients can buy the insurance with the voucher at the second lowest price. If they chose the lowest bid insurance, they get a check for the difference from the government. This provides an incentive to lower costs below the second-lowest bid.

It's giving people $ which could to spent upon other things to accept what is potentially, given the moral hazard, sub-par medical service. It might actually distort people choosing the option which is best for their health, as they weigh a somewhat better plan vs. $X.

5. Recipients can change plans every year, going back to regular Medicare if they choose.

This is good, provided that the Medicare infrastructure, etc., can take it.

6. The $714 bilion Obama took out of Medicare is restored to the Trust Fund.

This, as Democrats say, "ends Medicare as we know it."
"There is an almost universal tendency, perhaps an inborn tendency, to suspect the good faith of a man who holds opinions that differ from our own opinions."

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Greyparrot
Posts: 14,268
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8/15/2012 1:12:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/15/2012 1:10:18 PM, NixonianVolkswagen wrote:
At 8/15/2012 11:21:06 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
The Ryan Medicare Plan is:

1. Those 55+ must keep existing Medicare.
2. When those ow under 55 reach 65, they have two options:
a. keep existing Medicare
b. take a voucher from the government to buy health insurance equivalent to Medicare.
3. The government takes bids on supplying care equal to what Medicare provides. The value of the voucher is set at the second lowest bid.

Moral hazard? Bids will be lower than is feasible.

Well you always have option a) then.

Sounds like zero risk and more options.
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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8/15/2012 1:15:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/15/2012 12:43:59 PM, imabench wrote:
its already been proven by politifact that the claim "end medicare as we know it" was blatantly false. Hell they crowned it the "lie of the year" in 2011

http://www.politifact.com...

If you have the wealthiest taxpayers leave because they would prefer a " Cadillac" health plan, they will and Medicare will become destroyed faster because of large cuts in revenue.

I think that workers should set aside about 4% of their annual wages into a private account, and once they turn 65 the funds accumulated would be gradually deposited into the individual person's HSA with a lump sum deposited annually. Federal subsidies for the poor would cost much less than the current Medicaid, and ensure they can have adequate coverage, and use private voluntary charities to provide free care to them additionally.

Free market healthcare.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

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JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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8/15/2012 1:23:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/15/2012 1:12:44 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 8/15/2012 1:10:18 PM, NixonianVolkswagen wrote:
At 8/15/2012 11:21:06 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
The Ryan Medicare Plan is:

1. Those 55+ must keep existing Medicare.
2. When those ow under 55 reach 65, they have two options:
a. keep existing Medicare
b. take a voucher from the government to buy health insurance equivalent to Medicare.
3. The government takes bids on supplying care equal to what Medicare provides. The value of the voucher is set at the second lowest bid.

Moral hazard? Bids will be lower than is feasible.

Well you always have option a) then.

Sounds like zero risk and more options.

Uh... does option a) even exist? I don't see it.

Screaming into the wind...
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
TheBossToss
Posts: 154
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8/15/2012 2:22:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/15/2012 1:15:17 PM, Contra wrote:
At 8/15/2012 12:43:59 PM, imabench wrote:
its already been proven by politifact that the claim "end medicare as we know it" was blatantly false. Hell they crowned it the "lie of the year" in 2011

http://www.politifact.com...

If you have the wealthiest taxpayers leave because they would prefer a " Cadillac" health plan, they will and Medicare will become destroyed faster because of large cuts in revenue.

I think that workers should set aside about 4% of their annual wages into a private account, and once they turn 65 the funds accumulated would be gradually deposited into the individual person's HSA with a lump sum deposited annually. Federal subsidies for the poor would cost much less than the current Medicaid, and ensure they can have adequate coverage, and use private voluntary charities to provide free care to them additionally.

Free market healthcare.

If the wealthiest taxpayers leave under the Ryan plan, it would help. They would a) still pay taxes, nd b) be removed from the government-paid-for pool.

Otherwise, your healthcare plan is excellent. They should have you go speak in front of Congress.
Cats. I like cats.
-Me

Pro hasn't upheld his BOP. He forfeited last round. I did stuff.
-Wallstreetatheist

That was real intellectual property theft. They used her idea for their own profit and fame. When I pirate, I am usually downloading textbooks that I cannot afford to purchase on my own and that I do not want my parents to spend money on.
-royalpaladin
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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8/15/2012 2:36:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
If one is demagoging the issue, any change whatsoever "ends the plan as we know it."

The hazard of an insurer not being able to deliver on claims always exists. It certainly exists when the Federal government is the insurer. However, financial troubles tend to develop slowly and those who take the private option have a chance to bail out in one year. I doubt that anyone would object if switching were allowed immediately if the insurer failed.

It costs the government about three times what users have put into Medicare to deliver the service. Hence competition to drive down the cost of delivering those services benefits everyone.

The argument is that if you allow anyone to escape government dependency for a better deal, that might cause others to think about escaping as well. It's true.
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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8/15/2012 2:41:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/15/2012 12:55:22 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/15/2012 11:21:06 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
The Ryan Medicare Plan is:

1. Those 55+ must keep existing Medicare.
2. When those ow under 55 reach 65, they have two options:
a. keep existing Medicare

Are you sure? I thought there was an option for SS, but not for Medicare.

Yes, I'm sure. this is the Medicare plan, not the SS plan.

"Retention of Existing Program. Retains current Medicare Program for those eligible prior to 1 January 2021."

That means that if you are now (well, in 2011) 55 or over you will not be offered any change to the existing program when the option kicks in in 10 years. That's what I said.
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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8/15/2012 2:43:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/15/2012 12:34:00 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
*Facepalm*

Roy, don't tell me youre on the Ryan train. C'mon.

Not entirely, Ryan is a bit too soft. I'm willing to debate something if you'd like.

Is Ryan well know as being part of the Illuminati? I guess I don't really need to ask.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,268
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8/15/2012 2:45:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/15/2012 1:23:10 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/15/2012 1:12:44 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 8/15/2012 1:10:18 PM, NixonianVolkswagen wrote:
At 8/15/2012 11:21:06 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
The Ryan Medicare Plan is:

1. Those 55+ must keep existing Medicare.
2. When those ow under 55 reach 65, they have two options:
a. keep existing Medicare
b. take a voucher from the government to buy health insurance equivalent to Medicare.
3. The government takes bids on supplying care equal to what Medicare provides. The value of the voucher is set at the second lowest bid.

Moral hazard? Bids will be lower than is feasible.

Well you always have option a) then.

Sounds like zero risk and more options.

Uh... does option a) even exist? I don't see it.

Screaming into the wind...

bolded for your sensitive eyes.
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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8/15/2012 2:46:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/15/2012 2:41:04 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
At 8/15/2012 12:55:22 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/15/2012 11:21:06 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
The Ryan Medicare Plan is:

1. Those 55+ must keep existing Medicare.
2. When those ow under 55 reach 65, they have two options:
a. keep existing Medicare

Are you sure? I thought there was an option for SS, but not for Medicare.

Yes, I'm sure. this is the Medicare plan, not the SS plan.

I know there is an option for the SS plan. The plan says so. I can't find any such option for Medicare. That's the point, I'm asking you to back up that claim.

"Retention of Existing Program. Retains current Medicare Program for those eligible prior to 1 January 2021."

That means that if you are now (well, in 2011) 55 or over you will not be offered any change to the existing program when the option kicks in in 10 years. That's what I said.

I know what it says... that's the only line I could find about keeping the current plan.

At 8/15/2012 12:55:22 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
I don't see anything to the contrary, can you link and quote the relevant portion of Ryan's plan?

You skipped that part... Source/quote plox.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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8/15/2012 2:47:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/15/2012 2:45:16 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 8/15/2012 1:23:10 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/15/2012 1:12:44 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 8/15/2012 1:10:18 PM, NixonianVolkswagen wrote:
At 8/15/2012 11:21:06 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
The Ryan Medicare Plan is:

1. Those 55+ must keep existing Medicare.
2. When those ow under 55 reach 65, they have two options:
a. keep existing Medicare
b. take a voucher from the government to buy health insurance equivalent to Medicare.
3. The government takes bids on supplying care equal to what Medicare provides. The value of the voucher is set at the second lowest bid.

Moral hazard? Bids will be lower than is feasible.

Well you always have option a) then.

Sounds like zero risk and more options.

Uh... does option a) even exist? I don't see it.

Screaming into the wind...

bolded for your sensitive eyes.

ZOMG!

I KNOW THE POST SAYS IT!!!!

I'm challenging ANYBODY to QUOTE and SOURCE the PLAN, SHOWING where the PLAN says that.

As far as I'm aware, there is no option for Medicare.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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8/15/2012 2:48:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/15/2012 2:45:16 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 8/15/2012 1:23:10 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/15/2012 1:12:44 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 8/15/2012 1:10:18 PM, NixonianVolkswagen wrote:
At 8/15/2012 11:21:06 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
The Ryan Medicare Plan is:

1. Those 55+ must keep existing Medicare.
2. When those ow under 55 reach 65, they have two options:
a. keep existing Medicare
b. take a voucher from the government to buy health insurance equivalent to Medicare.
3. The government takes bids on supplying care equal to what Medicare provides. The value of the voucher is set at the second lowest bid.

Moral hazard? Bids will be lower than is feasible.

Well you always have option a) then.

Sounds like zero risk and more options.

Uh... does option a) even exist? I don't see it.

Screaming into the wind...

bolded for your sensitive eyes.

Seriously... what is wrong with people?

If that is all it takes to prove something, I'll disprove it:

1) The Ryan Medicare plan doesn't allow you to stay on the current plan if you are younger than 55.

There, I proved it. see?
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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8/15/2012 2:50:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/15/2012 1:23:10 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
Uh... does option a) even exist? I don't see it.

The original Ryan plan did not offer the option to stay on existing Medicare forever. I was added shortly after the original proposal to gain additional support from Republicans, mainly in the Senate. I don't think it makes too much difference.

In a free market, providers compete on quality of service as well as cost. Medicare quality is poor, one reason being that fewer and fewer doctors are willing to take Medicare patients. So having an escape will take pressure off those providing care under the present system.

Screaming into the wind...

About what?
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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8/15/2012 2:52:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/15/2012 2:50:56 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
At 8/15/2012 1:23:10 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
Uh... does option a) even exist? I don't see it.

The original Ryan plan did not offer the option to stay on existing Medicare forever. I was added shortly after the original proposal to gain additional support from Republicans, mainly in the Senate. I don't think it makes too much difference.

In a free market, providers compete on quality of service as well as cost. Medicare quality is poor, one reason being that fewer and fewer doctors are willing to take Medicare patients. So having an escape will take pressure off those providing care under the present system.

Screaming into the wind...

About what?

It's amazing how hard it is to get a source on a site that encourages, you know, debate.

I'm just asking for a source.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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8/15/2012 2:54:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/15/2012 2:48:13 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:

1) The Ryan Medicare plan doesn't allow you to stay on the current plan if you are younger than 55.

There, I proved it. see?

Are you making joke? I assume so. If not, I'll explain it again.
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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8/15/2012 3:01:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/15/2012 2:54:07 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
At 8/15/2012 2:48:13 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:

1) The Ryan Medicare plan doesn't allow you to stay on the current plan if you are younger than 55.

There, I proved it. see?

Are you making joke? I assume so. If not, I'll explain it again.

Yes, it was a joke. I asked for a source, greyparrot quoted your OP.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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8/15/2012 4:39:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/15/2012 4:22:24 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/15/2012 2:59:05 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Jax just wants a source.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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8/15/2012 7:04:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/15/2012 4:39:41 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/15/2012 4:22:24 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/15/2012 2:59:05 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Jax just wants a source.

I've just got to say this.

In all the discussion about Ryan's plan I've seen since he was chosen, I haven't seen anybody actually source, or quote, his plan.

IMO, this is worse than the GE's taxes thing, Our media continues to get worse and worse, and we are constantly at the point where people are arguing over things that aren't even on the table...
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
MrBrooks
Posts: 831
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8/15/2012 7:12:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/15/2012 4:22:24 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/15/2012 2:59:05 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Jax just wants a source.

http://budget.house.gov...

^ This is the actual Ryan Plan in PDF format.

^ Ryan's pitch.
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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8/15/2012 7:20:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/15/2012 7:12:51 PM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 8/15/2012 4:22:24 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/15/2012 2:59:05 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Jax just wants a source.

http://budget.house.gov...

^ This is the actual Ryan Plan in PDF format.



^ Ryan's pitch.

Ok, now where is the part where it says people will be able to opt-in to traditional medicare?
twocupcakes: 15 = 13