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2016: Obama's America

Microsuck
Posts: 1,562
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8/17/2012 6:59:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Hey guys,

Have any of you heard of this movie? If so, what are your initial thoughts of it? Factually accurate? Factually inaccurate? or what?

http://2016themovie.com...

Note the following:

1. I do not believe Obama was born in Kenya
2. I do believe that Obama is indeed a socialist (not a Marxist, but certainly does not believe in the free enterprise);
3. Obama is not a Muslim; and
4. Four more years of Obama are going to be an absolute disaster;
Wall of Fail

Devil worship much? - SD
Newsflash: Atheists do not believe in the Devil! - Me
Newsflash: I doesnt matter if you think you do or not.....You do - SD

"you [imabench] are very naive and so i do not consider your opinions as having any merit. you must still be in highschool" - falconduler
JamesMadison
Posts: 381
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8/17/2012 7:10:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/17/2012 6:59:26 PM, Microsuck wrote:
Hey guys,

Have any of you heard of this movie? If so, what are your initial thoughts of it? Factually accurate? Factually inaccurate? or what?

http://2016themovie.com...

Note the following:

1. I do not believe Obama was born in Kenya
2. I do believe that Obama is indeed a socialist (not a Marxist, but certainly does not believe in the free enterprise);
3. Obama is not a Muslim; and
4. Four more years of Obama are going to be an absolute disaster;

You're right on all of those points.

Liberals can argue with #4... I am okay with that.

But, when they argue with #2, they are being dishonest.
As a general rule, you'll find that, when a conservative is talking about policy, history, economics, or something serious, liberals are nowhere to be found. But, as soon as a conservative mentions Obama's birthplace or personal life, liberals are everywhere, only to dissappear again when evidence enters the discussion.
EvanK
Posts: 599
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8/17/2012 7:16:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/17/2012 6:59:26 PM, Microsuck wrote:
Hey guys,

Have any of you heard of this movie? If so, what are your initial thoughts of it? Factually accurate? Factually inaccurate? or what?

http://2016themovie.com...

Note the following:

1. I do not believe Obama was born in Kenya
2. I do believe that Obama is indeed a socialist (not a Marxist, but certainly does not believe in the free enterprise);
3. Obama is not a Muslim; and
4. Four more years of Obama are going to be an absolute disaster;

I plan on seeing it, I don't think it's in a local theatre though :P. Probably get it on DVD sometime.

I do agree with your points, though. Obama is American, and I think he's "hiding" his records to distract people from his bad record. Right wingers will be talking about how he's a foreigner, and he can label the Right Wing crazy, and get people to vote for him. Sounds more plausible then a foreigner getting elected.

And I agree, we won't survive 4 more years of this guy.
The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of people's money."_Margaret Thatcher

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."_Thomas Jefferson

"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."_Thomas Jefferson

"It is easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled."-Mark Twain
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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8/17/2012 7:50:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
You know, if you actually talk to politically self-identified socialists in Europe and Canada, and you tell them Obama is a socialist, they'll laugh so hard they may wet themselves.

America is very egocentric when it comes to defining the political spectrum. Our "ideological extremes" are in fact quite boring when it comes to the contrast you'll find in countries with actual viable Communist/Socialist/Fascist parties.

Obama may be further along the spectrum of the American left than most politicians, but in a wider geopolitical context defining him as socialist is like saying George Bush's "fascist" ideology was the equivalent of the Italian National Fascist Party.
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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8/17/2012 7:57:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/17/2012 7:50:52 PM, Wnope wrote:
You know, if you actually talk to politically self-identified socialists in Europe and Canada, and you tell them Obama is a socialist, they'll laugh so hard they may wet themselves.

America is very egocentric when it comes to defining the political spectrum. Our "ideological extremes" are in fact quite boring when it comes to the contrast you'll find in countries with actual viable Communist/Socialist/Fascist parties.

Obama may be further along the spectrum of the American left than most politicians, but in a wider geopolitical context defining him as socialist is like saying George Bush's "fascist" ideology was the equivalent of the Italian National Fascist Party.

Already knew this, and I expect that many people actually know this on DDO. It's really not even news.

But thank you, anyway.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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8/17/2012 8:02:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/17/2012 7:57:00 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 8/17/2012 7:50:52 PM, Wnope wrote:
You know, if you actually talk to politically self-identified socialists in Europe and Canada, and you tell them Obama is a socialist, they'll laugh so hard they may wet themselves.

America is very egocentric when it comes to defining the political spectrum. Our "ideological extremes" are in fact quite boring when it comes to the contrast you'll find in countries with actual viable Communist/Socialist/Fascist parties.

Obama may be further along the spectrum of the American left than most politicians, but in a wider geopolitical context defining him as socialist is like saying George Bush's "fascist" ideology was the equivalent of the Italian National Fascist Party.

Already knew this, and I expect that many people actually know this on DDO. It's really not even news.

But thank you, anyway.

Really? So you think the loads of DDOers who heap on claims of Obama being an "European-like socialist" or someone completely changing the face of capitalism are knowingly contradicting themselves?

Maybe you have some world perspective, but most DDOers who call Obama socialist are not thinking "socialist within the context of American politics" they're thinking "socialist within the entire left-right spectrum."
Frederick53
Posts: 1,037
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8/17/2012 8:04:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/17/2012 7:57:00 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 8/17/2012 7:50:52 PM, Wnope wrote:
You know, if you actually talk to politically self-identified socialists in Europe and Canada, and you tell them Obama is a socialist, they'll laugh so hard they may wet themselves.

America is very egocentric when it comes to defining the political spectrum. Our "ideological extremes" are in fact quite boring when it comes to the contrast you'll find in countries with actual viable Communist/Socialist/Fascist parties.

Obama may be further along the spectrum of the American left than most politicians, but in a wider geopolitical context defining him as socialist is like saying George Bush's "fascist" ideology was the equivalent of the Italian National Fascist Party.

Already knew this, and I expect that many people actually know this on DDO. It's really not even news.

But thank you, anyway.

Please see the first 2 posts on this page please.
In 1975, the Second Vietnam War began -1Historygenius

Like no wonder that indian dude rejected you.- Darkkermit to royalpaladin

Social Darwinism is a justification- 1Historygenius

Equal opportunity exists, so there is no problem- EvanK
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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8/17/2012 8:06:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/17/2012 8:04:25 PM, Frederick53 wrote:
At 8/17/2012 7:57:00 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 8/17/2012 7:50:52 PM, Wnope wrote:
You know, if you actually talk to politically self-identified socialists in Europe and Canada, and you tell them Obama is a socialist, they'll laugh so hard they may wet themselves.

America is very egocentric when it comes to defining the political spectrum. Our "ideological extremes" are in fact quite boring when it comes to the contrast you'll find in countries with actual viable Communist/Socialist/Fascist parties.

Obama may be further along the spectrum of the American left than most politicians, but in a wider geopolitical context defining him as socialist is like saying George Bush's "fascist" ideology was the equivalent of the Italian National Fascist Party.

Already knew this, and I expect that many people actually know this on DDO. It's really not even news.

But thank you, anyway.

Please see the first 2 posts on this page please.

Right, I get that, but it seems that Wnope is trying to apply a statement in regards to American politics to the world stage for little reason.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Frederick53
Posts: 1,037
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8/17/2012 8:10:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/17/2012 8:06:14 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 8/17/2012 8:04:25 PM, Frederick53 wrote:
At 8/17/2012 7:57:00 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 8/17/2012 7:50:52 PM, Wnope wrote:
You know, if you actually talk to politically self-identified socialists in Europe and Canada, and you tell them Obama is a socialist, they'll laugh so hard they may wet themselves.

America is very egocentric when it comes to defining the political spectrum. Our "ideological extremes" are in fact quite boring when it comes to the contrast you'll find in countries with actual viable Communist/Socialist/Fascist parties.

Obama may be further along the spectrum of the American left than most politicians, but in a wider geopolitical context defining him as socialist is like saying George Bush's "fascist" ideology was the equivalent of the Italian National Fascist Party.

Already knew this, and I expect that many people actually know this on DDO. It's really not even news.

But thank you, anyway.

Please see the first 2 posts on this page please.

Right, I get that, but it seems that Wnope is trying to apply a statement in regards to American politics to the world stage for little reason.

I think his reason is that by actual political standards, Obama is not a socialist. Just like by actual political standards, Bush was not a fascist. And yet many liberals called him that, just like many conservatives call Obama a socialist.
In 1975, the Second Vietnam War began -1Historygenius

Like no wonder that indian dude rejected you.- Darkkermit to royalpaladin

Social Darwinism is a justification- 1Historygenius

Equal opportunity exists, so there is no problem- EvanK
JamesMadison
Posts: 381
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8/17/2012 8:10:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/17/2012 7:50:52 PM, Wnope wrote:
You know, if you actually talk to politically self-identified socialists in Europe and Canada, and you tell them Obama is a socialist, they'll laugh so hard they may wet themselves.

America is very egocentric when it comes to defining the political spectrum. Our "ideological extremes" are in fact quite boring when it comes to the contrast you'll find in countries with actual viable Communist/Socialist/Fascist parties.

Obama may be further along the spectrum of the American left than most politicians, but in a wider geopolitical context defining him as socialist is like saying George Bush's "fascist" ideology was the equivalent of the Italian National Fascist Party.

Of course, Obama is a socialist. And, saying that the fact that hardcore socialists don't call him that proves he isn't is like saying the fact that some hardcore conservatives say Mitt Romney or Newt Gingrich aren't conservaitves proves that they aren't.

Barack Obama was, in all likelihood, a somewhat open radical socialist in college. There is a lot of evidence to back that up.

Now, at some point, he decided that he would stop identifying himself as such. Now, if he had abandoned his socialist ideas, he would have probably gone to the center or right. But, instead, he stayed on the far left but just stopped calling himself socialist.

Nowadays, we have to look at what he advocates and has advocated. His policies are not in line with the traditional Democratic party... slightly left of center. In fact, he would even be on the far left of the British Labour Party. Just like Obama was criticizing Clinton for being too moderate, he would feel the same way about Blair.

Where is a good fit for Obama?

The French Socialist party. This is a mainstream left party in France. The president of France is a member. Like Obama, their big issue is taking more from the rich. So, they share his passion for taxing rich people.

Like Obama, they dont believe in "third way" or "centrism"... the kind that the Labour Party and Democratic party adopted in teh 1990s...

They see free trade as unfair, inequality of outcomes as bad, workers as being exploited. They think things like welfare reform are attempts by the rich whites to exploit the fears of the white working class. Unlike Clinton and Blair, Obama sees neoliberalism as the enemy... a force to be stopped. While Clinton and Blair were joining the right to expand free trade and reform teh welfare state, Obama was opposing teh Clinton admin from the left.

The French Socialist party is one of the few mainstream parties taht still identifies with the old anti capitalist, big government left... and it is a perfect fit for Mr. Obama.
As a general rule, you'll find that, when a conservative is talking about policy, history, economics, or something serious, liberals are nowhere to be found. But, as soon as a conservative mentions Obama's birthplace or personal life, liberals are everywhere, only to dissappear again when evidence enters the discussion.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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8/17/2012 8:12:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/17/2012 6:59:26 PM, Microsuck wrote:
Hey guys,

Have any of you heard of this movie? If so, what are your initial thoughts of it? Factually accurate? Factually inaccurate? or what?

http://2016themovie.com...

Note the following:

1. I do not believe Obama was born in Kenya
2. I do believe that Obama is indeed a socialist (not a Marxist, but certainly does not believe in the free enterprise);
3. Obama is not a Muslim; and
4. Four more years of Obama are going to be an absolute disaster;

get a new hobby. Ridiculous emotional attacks on the president is really unbecoming.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
JamesMadison
Posts: 381
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8/17/2012 8:15:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Also, to everyone on this page.

This is American politics. And, in America, Obama is on the far left.

He's a good politician... so he isn't going to advocate flat out socialism.

But, he is advocating as much as he can get passed.

Unlike CLinton, who didn't have to sign NAFTA, tax cuts, or welfare reform, Obama is pushing through as far left an agenda as he can.

And, it is obvious that, if he had the power, he would push through a MUCH farther left agenda... we're talking single payer, top tax rates over 60%, nationalization of the banks, stimulus that is about 4 times larger than what we had, price controls, and whatever else he could get through.

But, he has had to settle for a less radical, although still very radical agenda...

In the end, saying that Obama wouldnt be a radical in France is silly.

In North Korea, Obama wouldnt even be on the left.

We have to look at this in the context of American politics... because he is an American politician.
As a general rule, you'll find that, when a conservative is talking about policy, history, economics, or something serious, liberals are nowhere to be found. But, as soon as a conservative mentions Obama's birthplace or personal life, liberals are everywhere, only to dissappear again when evidence enters the discussion.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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8/17/2012 8:17:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/17/2012 7:10:45 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
But, when they argue with #2, they are being dishonest.

I can never comprehend this.

Obama works for the benefit of the big corporations and banks.

You think saying he's NOT Socialist is the dishonest answer?

That is not what the facts add up to.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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8/17/2012 8:17:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/17/2012 8:12:28 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/17/2012 6:59:26 PM, Microsuck wrote:
Hey guys,

Have any of you heard of this movie? If so, what are your initial thoughts of it? Factually accurate? Factually inaccurate? or what?

http://2016themovie.com...

Note the following:

1. I do not believe Obama was born in Kenya
2. I do believe that Obama is indeed a socialist (not a Marxist, but certainly does not believe in the free enterprise);
3. Obama is not a Muslim; and
4. Four more years of Obama are going to be an absolute disaster;

get a new hobby. Ridiculous emotional attacks on the president is really unbecoming.

Why is everyone so down on emotion, anyway?
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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8/17/2012 8:17:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/17/2012 8:10:22 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
At 8/17/2012 7:50:52 PM, Wnope wrote:
You know, if you actually talk to politically self-identified socialists in Europe and Canada, and you tell them Obama is a socialist, they'll laugh so hard they may wet themselves.

America is very egocentric when it comes to defining the political spectrum. Our "ideological extremes" are in fact quite boring when it comes to the contrast you'll find in countries with actual viable Communist/Socialist/Fascist parties.

Obama may be further along the spectrum of the American left than most politicians, but in a wider geopolitical context defining him as socialist is like saying George Bush's "fascist" ideology was the equivalent of the Italian National Fascist Party.


Of course, Obama is a socialist. And, saying that the fact that hardcore socialists don't call him that proves he isn't is like saying the fact that some hardcore conservatives say Mitt Romney or Newt Gingrich aren't conservaitves proves that they aren't.

Barack Obama was, in all likelihood, a somewhat open radical socialist in college. There is a lot of evidence to back that up.

So, Ronald Reagan was a hardcore liberal Democrat in college, is that the metric we judge him as, he was a Liberal Democrat?

Now, at some point, he decided that he would stop identifying himself as such. Now, if he had abandoned his socialist ideas, he would have probably gone to the center or right. But, instead, he stayed on the far left but just stopped calling himself socialist.

Nowadays, we have to look at what he advocates and has advocated. His policies are not in line with the traditional Democratic party... slightly left of center. In fact, he would even be on the far left of the British Labour Party. Just like Obama was criticizing Clinton for being too moderate, he would feel the same way about Blair.

Where is a good fit for Obama?

The French Socialist party. This is a mainstream left party in France. The president of France is a member. Like Obama, their big issue is taking more from the rich. So, they share his passion for taxing rich people.

Like Obama, they dont believe in "third way" or "centrism"... the kind that the Labour Party and Democratic party adopted in teh 1990s...

They see free trade as unfair, inequality of outcomes as bad, workers as being exploited. They think things like welfare reform are attempts by the rich whites to exploit the fears of the white working class. Unlike Clinton and Blair, Obama sees neoliberalism as the enemy... a force to be stopped. While Clinton and Blair were joining the right to expand free trade and reform teh welfare state, Obama was opposing teh Clinton admin from the left.

The French Socialist party is one of the few mainstream parties taht still identifies with the old anti capitalist, big government left... and it is a perfect fit for Mr. Obama.

My AP Gov't teacher, when I asked if Obama was a Socialist, he laughed out loud. It's not true, he is just a Moderate Liberal. End of discussion.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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8/17/2012 8:22:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/17/2012 7:57:00 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 8/17/2012 7:50:52 PM, Wnope wrote:
You know, if you actually talk to politically self-identified socialists in Europe and Canada, and you tell them Obama is a socialist, they'll laugh so hard they may wet themselves.

America is very egocentric when it comes to defining the political spectrum. Our "ideological extremes" are in fact quite boring when it comes to the contrast you'll find in countries with actual viable Communist/Socialist/Fascist parties.

Obama may be further along the spectrum of the American left than most politicians, but in a wider geopolitical context defining him as socialist is like saying George Bush's "fascist" ideology was the equivalent of the Italian National Fascist Party.

Already knew this, and I expect that many people actually know this on DDO. It's really not even news.

But thank you, anyway.

So all the DDO members that call him a socialist are simply being dishonest rather than wrong?
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
JamesMadison
Posts: 381
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8/17/2012 8:25:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/17/2012 8:17:52 PM, Contra wrote:
At 8/17/2012 8:10:22 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
At 8/17/2012 7:50:52 PM, Wnope wrote:
You know, if you actually talk to politically self-identified socialists in Europe and Canada, and you tell them Obama is a socialist, they'll laugh so hard they may wet themselves.

America is very egocentric when it comes to defining the political spectrum. Our "ideological extremes" are in fact quite boring when it comes to the contrast you'll find in countries with actual viable Communist/Socialist/Fascist parties.

Obama may be further along the spectrum of the American left than most politicians, but in a wider geopolitical context defining him as socialist is like saying George Bush's "fascist" ideology was the equivalent of the Italian National Fascist Party.


Of course, Obama is a socialist. And, saying that the fact that hardcore socialists don't call him that proves he isn't is like saying the fact that some hardcore conservatives say Mitt Romney or Newt Gingrich aren't conservaitves proves that they aren't.

Barack Obama was, in all likelihood, a somewhat open radical socialist in college. There is a lot of evidence to back that up.

So, Ronald Reagan was a hardcore liberal Democrat in college, is that the metric we judge him as, he was a Liberal Democrat?

Now, at some point, he decided that he would stop identifying himself as such. Now, if he had abandoned his socialist ideas, he would have probably gone to the center or right. But, instead, he stayed on the far left but just stopped calling himself socialist.

Nowadays, we have to look at what he advocates and has advocated. His policies are not in line with the traditional Democratic party... slightly left of center. In fact, he would even be on the far left of the British Labour Party. Just like Obama was criticizing Clinton for being too moderate, he would feel the same way about Blair.

Where is a good fit for Obama?

The French Socialist party. This is a mainstream left party in France. The president of France is a member. Like Obama, their big issue is taking more from the rich. So, they share his passion for taxing rich people.

Like Obama, they dont believe in "third way" or "centrism"... the kind that the Labour Party and Democratic party adopted in teh 1990s...

They see free trade as unfair, inequality of outcomes as bad, workers as being exploited. They think things like welfare reform are attempts by the rich whites to exploit the fears of the white working class. Unlike Clinton and Blair, Obama sees neoliberalism as the enemy... a force to be stopped. While Clinton and Blair were joining the right to expand free trade and reform teh welfare state, Obama was opposing teh Clinton admin from the left.

The French Socialist party is one of the few mainstream parties taht still identifies with the old anti capitalist, big government left... and it is a perfect fit for Mr. Obama.

My AP Gov't teacher, when I asked if Obama was a Socialist, he laughed out loud. It's not true, he is just a Moderate Liberal. End of discussion.

You've gotta be kidding me.

Ronald Reagan had a definitive switch. He went from being a liberal to conservative.

Now, if you can find me the moment when Obama converted, more power to you.

But, most people that convert from socialism don't go from socialism to hard left liberalism... basically socialism without calling it socialism.

A lot of conservatives are former communists... that is fine...

But, realizing how stupid socialism is and becoming a conservative is different from realizing that people don't like socialism and start calling your socialism "progresssivism"... as Obama did.

And, you're teacher is wrong. Teachers are wrong a lot.
As a general rule, you'll find that, when a conservative is talking about policy, history, economics, or something serious, liberals are nowhere to be found. But, as soon as a conservative mentions Obama's birthplace or personal life, liberals are everywhere, only to dissappear again when evidence enters the discussion.
JamesMadison
Posts: 381
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8/17/2012 8:27:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/17/2012 8:17:24 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 8/17/2012 7:10:45 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
But, when they argue with #2, they are being dishonest.

I can never comprehend this.

Obama works for the benefit of the big corporations and banks.

You think saying he's NOT Socialist is the dishonest answer?

That is not what the facts add up to.

In practice, he has been more of a fascist or corporatist. But, in his heart, he will always be a socialist.
As a general rule, you'll find that, when a conservative is talking about policy, history, economics, or something serious, liberals are nowhere to be found. But, as soon as a conservative mentions Obama's birthplace or personal life, liberals are everywhere, only to dissappear again when evidence enters the discussion.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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8/17/2012 8:31:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/17/2012 8:10:22 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
At 8/17/2012 7:50:52 PM, Wnope wrote:
You know, if you actually talk to politically self-identified socialists in Europe and Canada, and you tell them Obama is a socialist, they'll laugh so hard they may wet themselves.

America is very egocentric when it comes to defining the political spectrum. Our "ideological extremes" are in fact quite boring when it comes to the contrast you'll find in countries with actual viable Communist/Socialist/Fascist parties.

Obama may be further along the spectrum of the American left than most politicians, but in a wider geopolitical context defining him as socialist is like saying George Bush's "fascist" ideology was the equivalent of the Italian National Fascist Party.


Of course, Obama is a socialist. And, saying that the fact that hardcore socialists don't call him that proves he isn't is like saying the fact that some hardcore conservatives say Mitt Romney or Newt Gingrich aren't conservaitves proves that they aren't.

Barack Obama was, in all likelihood, a somewhat open radical socialist in college. There is a lot of evidence to back that up.

Now, at some point, he decided that he would stop identifying himself as such. Now, if he had abandoned his socialist ideas, he would have probably gone to the center or right. But, instead, he stayed on the far left but just stopped calling himself socialist.

Nowadays, we have to look at what he advocates and has advocated. His policies are not in line with the traditional Democratic party... slightly left of center. In fact, he would even be on the far left of the British Labour Party. Just like Obama was criticizing Clinton for being too moderate, he would feel the same way about Blair.

Where is a good fit for Obama?

The French Socialist party. This is a mainstream left party in France. The president of France is a member. Like Obama, their big issue is taking more from the rich. So, they share his passion for taxing rich people.

Like Obama, they dont believe in "third way" or "centrism"... the kind that the Labour Party and Democratic party adopted in teh 1990s...

They see free trade as unfair, inequality of outcomes as bad, workers as being exploited. They think things like welfare reform are attempts by the rich whites to exploit the fears of the white working class. Unlike Clinton and Blair, Obama sees neoliberalism as the enemy... a force to be stopped. While Clinton and Blair were joining the right to expand free trade and reform teh welfare state, Obama was opposing teh Clinton admin from the left.

The French Socialist party is one of the few mainstream parties taht still identifies with the old anti capitalist, big government left... and it is a perfect fit for Mr. Obama.

You can't call Obama a Socialist based on probably-this-and-probably-that. You're just pulling up random convictions.

If Obama is a Socialist then he would do as a Socialist does. He does NOT. He does NOT have Socialist policies. His policies are clearly Crony Capitalistic.

Even if he is a Socialist, if he doesn't act like one then it isn't even relevant.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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8/17/2012 8:32:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/17/2012 8:27:10 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
In practice, he has been more of a fascist or corporatist. But, in his heart, he will always be a socialist.

Meaningless statement.

And seriously. Who are you to judge where his heart is at? That's just retarded.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
JamesMadison
Posts: 381
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8/17/2012 8:33:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/17/2012 8:31:20 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 8/17/2012 8:10:22 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
At 8/17/2012 7:50:52 PM, Wnope wrote:
You know, if you actually talk to politically self-identified socialists in Europe and Canada, and you tell them Obama is a socialist, they'll laugh so hard they may wet themselves.

America is very egocentric when it comes to defining the political spectrum. Our "ideological extremes" are in fact quite boring when it comes to the contrast you'll find in countries with actual viable Communist/Socialist/Fascist parties.

Obama may be further along the spectrum of the American left than most politicians, but in a wider geopolitical context defining him as socialist is like saying George Bush's "fascist" ideology was the equivalent of the Italian National Fascist Party.


Of course, Obama is a socialist. And, saying that the fact that hardcore socialists don't call him that proves he isn't is like saying the fact that some hardcore conservatives say Mitt Romney or Newt Gingrich aren't conservaitves proves that they aren't.

Barack Obama was, in all likelihood, a somewhat open radical socialist in college. There is a lot of evidence to back that up.

Now, at some point, he decided that he would stop identifying himself as such. Now, if he had abandoned his socialist ideas, he would have probably gone to the center or right. But, instead, he stayed on the far left but just stopped calling himself socialist.

Nowadays, we have to look at what he advocates and has advocated. His policies are not in line with the traditional Democratic party... slightly left of center. In fact, he would even be on the far left of the British Labour Party. Just like Obama was criticizing Clinton for being too moderate, he would feel the same way about Blair.

Where is a good fit for Obama?

The French Socialist party. This is a mainstream left party in France. The president of France is a member. Like Obama, their big issue is taking more from the rich. So, they share his passion for taxing rich people.

Like Obama, they dont believe in "third way" or "centrism"... the kind that the Labour Party and Democratic party adopted in teh 1990s...

They see free trade as unfair, inequality of outcomes as bad, workers as being exploited. They think things like welfare reform are attempts by the rich whites to exploit the fears of the white working class. Unlike Clinton and Blair, Obama sees neoliberalism as the enemy... a force to be stopped. While Clinton and Blair were joining the right to expand free trade and reform teh welfare state, Obama was opposing teh Clinton admin from the left.

The French Socialist party is one of the few mainstream parties taht still identifies with the old anti capitalist, big government left... and it is a perfect fit for Mr. Obama.

You can't call Obama a Socialist based on probably-this-and-probably-that. You're just pulling up random convictions.

If Obama is a Socialist then he would do as a Socialist does. He does NOT. He does NOT have Socialist policies. His policies are clearly Crony Capitalistic.

Even if he is a Socialist, if he doesn't act like one then it isn't even relevant.

Obama is, most certainly and according to all evidence, a socialist in his heart.

But, you're right... he has been more a fascist or corporatist as president... although that is just as bad for the cause of free markets.
As a general rule, you'll find that, when a conservative is talking about policy, history, economics, or something serious, liberals are nowhere to be found. But, as soon as a conservative mentions Obama's birthplace or personal life, liberals are everywhere, only to dissappear again when evidence enters the discussion.
Contra
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8/17/2012 8:34:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/17/2012 8:25:45 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
At 8/17/2012 8:17:52 PM, Contra wrote:
At 8/17/2012 8:10:22 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
At 8/17/2012 7:50:52 PM, Wnope wrote:
You know, if you actually talk to politically self-identified socialists in Europe and Canada, and you tell them Obama is a socialist, they'll laugh so hard they may wet themselves.

America is very egocentric when it comes to defining the political spectrum. Our "ideological extremes" are in fact quite boring when it comes to the contrast you'll find in countries with actual viable Communist/Socialist/Fascist parties.

Obama may be further along the spectrum of the American left than most politicians, but in a wider geopolitical context defining him as socialist is like saying George Bush's "fascist" ideology was the equivalent of the Italian National Fascist Party.


Of course, Obama is a socialist. And, saying that the fact that hardcore socialists don't call him that proves he isn't is like saying the fact that some hardcore conservatives say Mitt Romney or Newt Gingrich aren't conservaitves proves that they aren't.

Barack Obama was, in all likelihood, a somewhat open radical socialist in college. There is a lot of evidence to back that up.

So, Ronald Reagan was a hardcore liberal Democrat in college, is that the metric we judge him as, he was a Liberal Democrat?

Now, at some point, he decided that he would stop identifying himself as such. Now, if he had abandoned his socialist ideas, he would have probably gone to the center or right. But, instead, he stayed on the far left but just stopped calling himself socialist.

Nowadays, we have to look at what he advocates and has advocated. His policies are not in line with the traditional Democratic party... slightly left of center. In fact, he would even be on the far left of the British Labour Party. Just like Obama was criticizing Clinton for being too moderate, he would feel the same way about Blair.

Where is a good fit for Obama?

The French Socialist party. This is a mainstream left party in France. The president of France is a member. Like Obama, their big issue is taking more from the rich. So, they share his passion for taxing rich people.

Like Obama, they dont believe in "third way" or "centrism"... the kind that the Labour Party and Democratic party adopted in teh 1990s...

They see free trade as unfair, inequality of outcomes as bad, workers as being exploited. They think things like welfare reform are attempts by the rich whites to exploit the fears of the white working class. Unlike Clinton and Blair, Obama sees neoliberalism as the enemy... a force to be stopped. While Clinton and Blair were joining the right to expand free trade and reform teh welfare state, Obama was opposing teh Clinton admin from the left.

The French Socialist party is one of the few mainstream parties taht still identifies with the old anti capitalist, big government left... and it is a perfect fit for Mr. Obama.

My AP Gov't teacher, when I asked if Obama was a Socialist, he laughed out loud. It's not true, he is just a Moderate Liberal. End of discussion.


You've gotta be kidding me.

Ronald Reagan had a definitive switch. He went from being a liberal to conservative.

Now, if you can find me the moment when Obama converted, more power to you.

But, most people that convert from socialism don't go from socialism to hard left liberalism... basically socialism without calling it socialism.

A lot of conservatives are former communists... that is fine...

But, realizing how stupid socialism is and becoming a conservative is different from realizing that people don't like socialism and start calling your socialism "progresssivism"... as Obama did.

And, you're teacher is wrong. Teachers are wrong a lot.

I did a report on Reagan in 6th grade, before I knew anything about politics, but the subject became political though I had no opinion, so I know more about Reagan than Obama.

And yeah, a teacher who has a Master's Degree is definitely unreliable. Come on, reality has a liberal bias!
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
imabench
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8/17/2012 8:34:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Seeing how this thread was created by one of the two people I will never take seriously, and the first to comment on the thread was the OTHER of the two people I never take seriously..... Im gonna go ahead and spare myself from reading 10 minutes of weapons grade quality bullsh*t
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
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JamesMadison
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8/17/2012 8:35:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/17/2012 8:32:12 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 8/17/2012 8:27:10 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
In practice, he has been more of a fascist or corporatist. But, in his heart, he will always be a socialist.

Meaningless statement.

And seriously. Who are you to judge where his heart is at? That's just retarded.

What's retarded is people who pretend like Obama is some centrist who really does love capitalism.

He isn't. Philisophically, he is a hardcore leftwing statist. And, he has furthered that agenda as president.
As a general rule, you'll find that, when a conservative is talking about policy, history, economics, or something serious, liberals are nowhere to be found. But, as soon as a conservative mentions Obama's birthplace or personal life, liberals are everywhere, only to dissappear again when evidence enters the discussion.
FREEDO
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8/17/2012 8:35:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/17/2012 8:33:47 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
Obama is, most certainly and according to all evidence, a socialist in his heart.

If I were Christian like you, I would give you a bible thumping right now.
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JamesMadison
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8/17/2012 8:37:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/17/2012 8:34:43 PM, Contra wrote:
At 8/17/2012 8:25:45 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
At 8/17/2012 8:17:52 PM, Contra wrote:
At 8/17/2012 8:10:22 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
At 8/17/2012 7:50:52 PM, Wnope wrote:
You know, if you actually talk to politically self-identified socialists in Europe and Canada, and you tell them Obama is a socialist, they'll laugh so hard they may wet themselves.

America is very egocentric when it comes to defining the political spectrum. Our "ideological extremes" are in fact quite boring when it comes to the contrast you'll find in countries with actual viable Communist/Socialist/Fascist parties.

Obama may be further along the spectrum of the American left than most politicians, but in a wider geopolitical context defining him as socialist is like saying George Bush's "fascist" ideology was the equivalent of the Italian National Fascist Party.


Of course, Obama is a socialist. And, saying that the fact that hardcore socialists don't call him that proves he isn't is like saying the fact that some hardcore conservatives say Mitt Romney or Newt Gingrich aren't conservaitves proves that they aren't.

Barack Obama was, in all likelihood, a somewhat open radical socialist in college. There is a lot of evidence to back that up.

So, Ronald Reagan was a hardcore liberal Democrat in college, is that the metric we judge him as, he was a Liberal Democrat?

Now, at some point, he decided that he would stop identifying himself as such. Now, if he had abandoned his socialist ideas, he would have probably gone to the center or right. But, instead, he stayed on the far left but just stopped calling himself socialist.

Nowadays, we have to look at what he advocates and has advocated. His policies are not in line with the traditional Democratic party... slightly left of center. In fact, he would even be on the far left of the British Labour Party. Just like Obama was criticizing Clinton for being too moderate, he would feel the same way about Blair.

Where is a good fit for Obama?

The French Socialist party. This is a mainstream left party in France. The president of France is a member. Like Obama, their big issue is taking more from the rich. So, they share his passion for taxing rich people.

Like Obama, they dont believe in "third way" or "centrism"... the kind that the Labour Party and Democratic party adopted in teh 1990s...

They see free trade as unfair, inequality of outcomes as bad, workers as being exploited. They think things like welfare reform are attempts by the rich whites to exploit the fears of the white working class. Unlike Clinton and Blair, Obama sees neoliberalism as the enemy... a force to be stopped. While Clinton and Blair were joining the right to expand free trade and reform teh welfare state, Obama was opposing teh Clinton admin from the left.

The French Socialist party is one of the few mainstream parties taht still identifies with the old anti capitalist, big government left... and it is a perfect fit for Mr. Obama.

My AP Gov't teacher, when I asked if Obama was a Socialist, he laughed out loud. It's not true, he is just a Moderate Liberal. End of discussion.


You've gotta be kidding me.

Ronald Reagan had a definitive switch. He went from being a liberal to conservative.

Now, if you can find me the moment when Obama converted, more power to you.

But, most people that convert from socialism don't go from socialism to hard left liberalism... basically socialism without calling it socialism.

A lot of conservatives are former communists... that is fine...

But, realizing how stupid socialism is and becoming a conservative is different from realizing that people don't like socialism and start calling your socialism "progresssivism"... as Obama did.

And, you're teacher is wrong. Teachers are wrong a lot.

I did a report on Reagan in 6th grade, before I knew anything about politics, but the subject became political though I had no opinion, so I know more about Reagan than Obama.

And yeah, a teacher who has a Master's Degree is definitely unreliable. Come on, reality has a liberal bias!

You're a smart guy, Contra. You should know that the opinion of one guy, even a teacher, isn't evidence of ANYTHING. I actually have a teacher who says he is a socialist... so. ha.

THat is actually true. But, I know that that isn't evidence for my point.

And, actually, reality has a right wing bias.

I know a lot about Reagan and Obama.. Reagan was a liberal dem who had a genuine conversin.

Obama was a radical socialist who realized that, to further the cause of socialism, he would have to stop calling himself a socialist.
As a general rule, you'll find that, when a conservative is talking about policy, history, economics, or something serious, liberals are nowhere to be found. But, as soon as a conservative mentions Obama's birthplace or personal life, liberals are everywhere, only to dissappear again when evidence enters the discussion.
JamesMadison
Posts: 381
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8/17/2012 8:38:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/17/2012 8:34:50 PM, imabench wrote:
Seeing how this thread was created by one of the two people I will never take seriously, and the first to comment on the thread was the OTHER of the two people I never take seriously..... Im gonna go ahead and spare myself from reading 10 minutes of weapons grade quality bullsh*t

Yes, listening to other viewpoints is hard. And, saying that you don't us seriously is a good excuse to disregard everything we say.
As a general rule, you'll find that, when a conservative is talking about policy, history, economics, or something serious, liberals are nowhere to be found. But, as soon as a conservative mentions Obama's birthplace or personal life, liberals are everywhere, only to dissappear again when evidence enters the discussion.
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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8/17/2012 8:40:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/17/2012 8:37:37 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
You're a smart guy, Contra. You should know that the opinion of one guy, even a teacher, isn't evidence of ANYTHING. I actually have a teacher who says he is a socialist... so. ha.

THat is actually true. But, I know that that isn't evidence for my point.

And, actually, reality has a right wing bias.

I know a lot about Reagan and Obama.. Reagan was a liberal dem who had a genuine conversin.

Obama was a radical socialist who realized that, to further the cause of socialism, he would have to stop calling himself a socialist.

Are you high?
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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8/17/2012 8:41:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/17/2012 8:37:37 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
At 8/17/2012 8:34:43 PM, Contra wrote:
At 8/17/2012 8:25:45 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
At 8/17/2012 8:17:52 PM, Contra wrote:
At 8/17/2012 8:10:22 PM, JamesMadison wrote:
At 8/17/2012 7:50:52 PM, Wnope wrote:
You know, if you actually talk to politically self-identified socialists in Europe and Canada, and you tell them Obama is a socialist, they'll laugh so hard they may wet themselves.

America is very egocentric when it comes to defining the political spectrum. Our "ideological extremes" are in fact quite boring when it comes to the contrast you'll find in countries with actual viable Communist/Socialist/Fascist parties.

Obama may be further along the spectrum of the American left than most politicians, but in a wider geopolitical context defining him as socialist is like saying George Bush's "fascist" ideology was the equivalent of the Italian National Fascist Party.


Of course, Obama is a socialist. And, saying that the fact that hardcore socialists don't call him that proves he isn't is like saying the fact that some hardcore conservatives say Mitt Romney or Newt Gingrich aren't conservaitves proves that they aren't.

Barack Obama was, in all likelihood, a somewhat open radical socialist in college. There is a lot of evidence to back that up.

So, Ronald Reagan was a hardcore liberal Democrat in college, is that the metric we judge him as, he was a Liberal Democrat?

Now, at some point, he decided that he would stop identifying himself as such. Now, if he had abandoned his socialist ideas, he would have probably gone to the center or right. But, instead, he stayed on the far left but just stopped calling himself socialist.

Nowadays, we have to look at what he advocates and has advocated. His policies are not in line with the traditional Democratic party... slightly left of center. In fact, he would even be on the far left of the British Labour Party. Just like Obama was criticizing Clinton for being too moderate, he would feel the same way about Blair.

Where is a good fit for Obama?

The French Socialist party. This is a mainstream left party in France. The president of France is a member. Like Obama, their big issue is taking more from the rich. So, they share his passion for taxing rich people.

Like Obama, they dont believe in "third way" or "centrism"... the kind that the Labour Party and Democratic party adopted in teh 1990s...

They see free trade as unfair, inequality of outcomes as bad, workers as being exploited. They think things like welfare reform are attempts by the rich whites to exploit the fears of the white working class. Unlike Clinton and Blair, Obama sees neoliberalism as the enemy... a force to be stopped. While Clinton and Blair were joining the right to expand free trade and reform teh welfare state, Obama was opposing teh Clinton admin from the left.

The French Socialist party is one of the few mainstream parties taht still identifies with the old anti capitalist, big government left... and it is a perfect fit for Mr. Obama.

My AP Gov't teacher, when I asked if Obama was a Socialist, he laughed out loud. It's not true, he is just a Moderate Liberal. End of discussion.


You've gotta be kidding me.

Ronald Reagan had a definitive switch. He went from being a liberal to conservative.

Now, if you can find me the moment when Obama converted, more power to you.

But, most people that convert from socialism don't go from socialism to hard left liberalism... basically socialism without calling it socialism.

A lot of conservatives are former communists... that is fine...

But, realizing how stupid socialism is and becoming a conservative is different from realizing that people don't like socialism and start calling your socialism "progresssivism"... as Obama did.

And, you're teacher is wrong. Teachers are wrong a lot.

I did a report on Reagan in 6th grade, before I knew anything about politics, but the subject became political though I had no opinion, so I know more about Reagan than Obama.

And yeah, a teacher who has a Master's Degree is definitely unreliable. Come on, reality has a liberal bias!


You're a smart guy, Contra. You should know that the opinion of one guy, even a teacher, isn't evidence of ANYTHING. I actually have a teacher who says he is a socialist... so. ha.

THat is actually true. But, I know that that isn't evidence for my point.

It was an appeal to authority, which isn't inherently bad, but it isn't good evidence for a point. My teacher was an AP Government teacher though.

And, actually, reality has a right wing bias.

Go on.

I know a lot about Reagan and Obama.. Reagan was a liberal dem who had a genuine conversin.

Obama was a radical socialist who realized that, to further the cause of socialism, he would have to stop calling himself a socialist.

Provide some proof.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
FREEDO
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8/17/2012 8:43:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Obama is pursuing the opposite of Socialism for the sake of Socialism itself! Can't you see, you fools?!!?!?!11!

Herpyderpydoooooooooooooo
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord