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Politics have become to focused on economics

DanT
Posts: 5,693
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8/18/2012 9:56:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
When it comes to politics, people focus too much on economics. People seem to think that economics determines if people are left right or right wing, fascist, or libertarian, Democrat or Republican, and so on.

One's socioeconomic views does not determine one's political views, but rater one's political views determines one's socioeconomic views.

If you believe in collectivism than you favor Macroeconomics.
If you believe in individualism than you favor Microeconomics.

If you are a left wing Macroeconomist, than you believe Macroeconomics should be used for societal reforms (like a planned economy).
If you are a right wing Macroeconomist, than you believe Macroeconomics should be used to maintain the status quo (like a protective tariff).

If you are a right wing Microeconomist, than you believe Microeconomics should be used to maintain the status quo (such as a flatter tax code).
If you are a left wing Microeconomist, than you believe Microeconomics should be used for societal reforms (such as a bartering system).

Right wing Macroeconomists are Economic Nationalists.
Left wing Macroeconomists are Economic Socialists.
Right wing Microeconomists are Economic Liberals (in the classical sense).
Left wing Microeconomists are Economic Anarchists.

In other words, economic policy does not determine one's political views, one's political views determines their economic policy.
That is not to say a Nationalist can't believe in economic socialism, or economic liberalism. Socioeconomic is simply just one of the many categories that make up one's political ideology. By weighing all the categories, one can determine which political ideology someone subscribes to. Political ideologies are determined by one's sociopolitical and sociocultural beliefs. Left vs right is sociocultural, and Collectivist vs individualist is sociopolitical.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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8/18/2012 10:00:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/18/2012 9:56:22 PM, DanT wrote:
When it comes to politics, people focus too much on economics. People seem to think that economics determines if people are left right or right wing, fascist, or libertarian, Democrat or Republican, and so on.

One's socioeconomic views does not determine one's political views, but rater one's political views determines one's socioeconomic views.

If you believe in collectivism than you favor Macroeconomics.
If you believe in individualism than you favor Microeconomics.

If you are a left wing Macroeconomist, than you believe Macroeconomics should be used for societal reforms (like a planned economy).
If you are a right wing Macroeconomist, than you believe Macroeconomics should be used to maintain the status quo (like a protective tariff).


If you are a right wing Microeconomist, than you believe Microeconomics should be used to maintain the status quo (such as a flatter tax code).
If you are a left wing Microeconomist, than you believe Microeconomics should be used for societal reforms (such as a bartering system).


Right wing Macroeconomists are Economic Nationalists.
Left wing Macroeconomists are Economic Socialists.
Right wing Microeconomists are Economic Liberals (in the classical sense).
Left wing Microeconomists are Economic Anarchists.

In other words, economic policy does not determine one's political views, one's political views determines their economic policy.
That is not to say a Nationalist can't believe in economic socialism, or economic liberalism. Socioeconomic is simply just one of the many categories that make up one's political ideology. By weighing all the categories, one can determine which political ideology someone subscribes to. Political ideologies are determined by one's sociopolitical and sociocultural beliefs. Left vs right is sociocultural, and Collectivist vs individualist is sociopolitical.

tl;dr

definitions...

meanwhile, tens of millions of Americans can't earn any money.

IMO, the economy is the most important thing to fix ATM.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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8/18/2012 10:05:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/18/2012 10:00:16 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/18/2012 9:56:22 PM, DanT wrote:
When it comes to politics, people focus too much on economics. People seem to think that economics determines if people are left right or right wing, fascist, or libertarian, Democrat or Republican, and so on.

One's socioeconomic views does not determine one's political views, but rater one's political views determines one's socioeconomic views.

If you believe in collectivism than you favor Macroeconomics.
If you believe in individualism than you favor Microeconomics.

If you are a left wing Macroeconomist, than you believe Macroeconomics should be used for societal reforms (like a planned economy).
If you are a right wing Macroeconomist, than you believe Macroeconomics should be used to maintain the status quo (like a protective tariff).


If you are a right wing Microeconomist, than you believe Microeconomics should be used to maintain the status quo (such as a flatter tax code).
If you are a left wing Microeconomist, than you believe Microeconomics should be used for societal reforms (such as a bartering system).


Right wing Macroeconomists are Economic Nationalists.
Left wing Macroeconomists are Economic Socialists.
Right wing Microeconomists are Economic Liberals (in the classical sense).
Left wing Microeconomists are Economic Anarchists.

In other words, economic policy does not determine one's political views, one's political views determines their economic policy.
That is not to say a Nationalist can't believe in economic socialism, or economic liberalism. Socioeconomic is simply just one of the many categories that make up one's political ideology. By weighing all the categories, one can determine which political ideology someone subscribes to. Political ideologies are determined by one's sociopolitical and sociocultural beliefs. Left vs right is sociocultural, and Collectivist vs individualist is sociopolitical.

tl;dr

definitions...

meanwhile, tens of millions of Americans can't earn any money.

IMO, the economy is the most important thing to fix ATM.

Which approach do you find best fits your economic views?
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
JamesMadison
Posts: 381
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8/18/2012 10:19:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/18/2012 10:00:16 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/18/2012 9:56:22 PM, DanT wrote:
When it comes to politics, people focus too much on economics. People seem to think that economics determines if people are left right or right wing, fascist, or libertarian, Democrat or Republican, and so on.

One's socioeconomic views does not determine one's political views, but rater one's political views determines one's socioeconomic views.

If you believe in collectivism than you favor Macroeconomics.
If you believe in individualism than you favor Microeconomics.

If you are a left wing Macroeconomist, than you believe Macroeconomics should be used for societal reforms (like a planned economy).
If you are a right wing Macroeconomist, than you believe Macroeconomics should be used to maintain the status quo (like a protective tariff).


If you are a right wing Microeconomist, than you believe Microeconomics should be used to maintain the status quo (such as a flatter tax code).
If you are a left wing Microeconomist, than you believe Microeconomics should be used for societal reforms (such as a bartering system).


Right wing Macroeconomists are Economic Nationalists.
Left wing Macroeconomists are Economic Socialists.
Right wing Microeconomists are Economic Liberals (in the classical sense).
Left wing Microeconomists are Economic Anarchists.

In other words, economic policy does not determine one's political views, one's political views determines their economic policy.
That is not to say a Nationalist can't believe in economic socialism, or economic liberalism. Socioeconomic is simply just one of the many categories that make up one's political ideology. By weighing all the categories, one can determine which political ideology someone subscribes to. Political ideologies are determined by one's sociopolitical and sociocultural beliefs. Left vs right is sociocultural, and Collectivist vs individualist is sociopolitical.

tl;dr

definitions...

meanwhile, tens of millions of Americans can't earn any money.

IMO, the economy is the most important thing to fix ATM.

I agree. Fixing ATM machines should be a priority.
As a general rule, you'll find that, when a conservative is talking about policy, history, economics, or something serious, liberals are nowhere to be found. But, as soon as a conservative mentions Obama's birthplace or personal life, liberals are everywhere, only to dissappear again when evidence enters the discussion.
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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8/18/2012 10:22:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/18/2012 10:05:56 PM, DanT wrote:
At 8/18/2012 10:00:16 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/18/2012 9:56:22 PM, DanT wrote:
When it comes to politics, people focus too much on economics. People seem to think that economics determines if people are left right or right wing, fascist, or libertarian, Democrat or Republican, and so on.

One's socioeconomic views does not determine one's political views, but rater one's political views determines one's socioeconomic views.

If you believe in collectivism than you favor Macroeconomics.
If you believe in individualism than you favor Microeconomics.

If you are a left wing Macroeconomist, than you believe Macroeconomics should be used for societal reforms (like a planned economy).
If you are a right wing Macroeconomist, than you believe Macroeconomics should be used to maintain the status quo (like a protective tariff).


If you are a right wing Microeconomist, than you believe Microeconomics should be used to maintain the status quo (such as a flatter tax code).
If you are a left wing Microeconomist, than you believe Microeconomics should be used for societal reforms (such as a bartering system).


Right wing Macroeconomists are Economic Nationalists.
Left wing Macroeconomists are Economic Socialists.
Right wing Microeconomists are Economic Liberals (in the classical sense).
Left wing Microeconomists are Economic Anarchists.

In other words, economic policy does not determine one's political views, one's political views determines their economic policy.
That is not to say a Nationalist can't believe in economic socialism, or economic liberalism. Socioeconomic is simply just one of the many categories that make up one's political ideology. By weighing all the categories, one can determine which political ideology someone subscribes to. Political ideologies are determined by one's sociopolitical and sociocultural beliefs. Left vs right is sociocultural, and Collectivist vs individualist is sociopolitical.

tl;dr

definitions...

meanwhile, tens of millions of Americans can't earn any money.

IMO, the economy is the most important thing to fix ATM.


Which approach do you find best fits your economic views?

Uh... B?
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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8/19/2012 9:03:43 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
It's important now because the economy is crap.

When the economy is good social issues and rights come back to the forefront.

It's give and take depending on the current situation.
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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8/19/2012 9:29:58 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Oh lawd. More DanT'ing, off the port bow! *rings bell* Battle stations! Definitions incoming!!!
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I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

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16kadams
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8/19/2012 9:42:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/19/2012 9:29:58 AM, DetectableNinja wrote:
Oh lawd. More DanT'ing, off the port bow! *rings bell* Battle stations! Definitions incoming!!!

Lol
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Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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8/19/2012 11:10:49 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
to be honest, I still see no reason why any of this is true, and stating "this is the way things are" doesn't change it, because you've not said "this is the way things are and this is why". Saying "Politics is too focused on economics because a left wing person is economically left-wing" doesn't change anything.

Politics in fact is too socially based: the Same Sex Marriage issue for one is an issue that is now massively popular for no reason other than it is politically useful.
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R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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8/19/2012 11:32:00 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I can see why people/politicians want to improve the economy, but we don't seem to be noticing that what we're doing ISN'T WORKING. When political theorists come at us with all these propositions, it's sort of as effective as praying to change the weather... OBVIOUSLY WE HAVE SOME ERRANT ASSUMPTIONS WE ARE WORKING WITH. Economics is the only "science" in which we progress BACKWARDS as time moves forward. And what do we get as an explanation? It's the OTHER PARTIES' fault for not implementing MY plan! Come on guys, can you at least on this website not be so freaking ignorant, buying into these used-car salesmen's tired old song and dance? Instead of relying on economic science for our plans, we should be looking at natural science instead. And if you think that ecologists, biologists, etc. don't have any ideas then that's just because you've drowned them out to listen to money-men.
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DanT
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8/19/2012 12:15:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/19/2012 11:10:49 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
to be honest, I still see no reason why any of this is true, and stating "this is the way things are" doesn't change it, because you've not said "this is the way things are and this is why".
yes I have
Saying "Politics is too focused on economics because a left wing person is economically left-wing" doesn't change anything.

Not what I said.
Politics in fact is too socially based: the Same Sex Marriage issue for one is an issue that is now massively popular for no reason other than it is politically useful.

I'm assuming by social you mean sociocultural; I agree. Left vs Right is not as important politically, as Collectivism vs Individualism.

Politics was originally collectivist vs individualist, not left vs right. Collectivism vs individualism is a sociopolitical issue. It was not until the revolutions of the 18th century, and 19th century that politics began focusing on left and right. Left wingers wanting reform, and right wingers wanting to maintain the status quo.

The first political parties were the Populares and Optimates of ancient Rome. The Populares favored the plebeians, whereas the Optimates favored the patricians. The Optimates were conservative collectivists.
The Populares were progressive individualists.

As a result of the English Civil War, England and Scotland established the Whig and Tory Parties.
Whigs favored either constitutional monarchism, or republicanism. They also favored rule of law, parliamentary supremacy, and freer trade. Whigs also favored Presbyterianism, against the Church of England.
Tories favored absolute monarchism, and believed the monarch had a divine right to do what ever he wished. They also favored economic intervention.Tories favored Anglicanism, supporting the Church of England.

Tories were third way collectivists.
Whigs were third way individualists.

A coalition of Radical Whigs and Jacobite Tories formed the Country party
A coalition of Junta Whigs and Hanoverian Tories the Court Party
The Court Party was in favor of government serving the politicians.
The Country Party was in favor of government serving the entire country.

The Court Party was collectivist
The Country Party was individualist

The Country Party (Radical Whigs and Jacobite Tories) would later turn into the Conservative Party, and s group of Whigs would later form the Liberal Party.

The Liberal Party pushed for a freer market, and more individual liberty.
The Conservative Party pushed for a freer market, but believed in maintaining the status quo.
When Tories merged with the Conservative Party the Conservative Party went from pro-free market, to pro-protectionism. this led many conservatives to join the liberals.

The liberal party was individualist
The Conservative party was traditionalist

The Free Market Conservatives were liberal conservatives, and the protectionist conservatives were traditional conservatives.
Radical liberals were social liberals, who pushed for reforms in order to increase equality within society.
Non-radical liberals were classic liberals, who pushed for a generally freer society.

The Left-Right politics of France inspired the creation of the Conservative Party in the UK. During the French revolution, revolutionaries sat on the left, and royalists sat on the right. After the revolution, anyone supporting the status quo sat on the right, and anyone proposing reform sat on the left. This is the origin of the terms left wing and right wing. Prior to the French revolution, Left vs right was not as important as Collectivist vs Individualist.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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8/19/2012 12:21:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/19/2012 9:03:43 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
It's important now because the economy is crap.

When the economy is good social issues and rights come back to the forefront.

It's give and take depending on the current situation.

Didn't say their economic policy was not an important topic. I said their economic policy does not determine what their political ideology is. Economic policy alone does not determine someone's political affiliation; one must weight every policy, not just economics. If someone is an economic socialist, but every other policy is anarchist, than they are a anarchist. If one is economically liberal (in the classic sense), but every other policy is nationalistic than they are a nationalist.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle