Total Posts:28|Showing Posts:1-28
Jump to topic:

Yet Another OWS Explanation

Ren
Posts: 7,102
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/22/2012 8:16:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
If there's one thing I've heard way too much, it's that the Occupy Wall Street Movement had no direction; no meaning. I would like to introduce another brilliant soliloquy that very clearly illustrates the perspectives that underly the movement. Discuss.
imabench
Posts: 21,219
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/22/2012 8:19:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I thought it was already understood that the OWS movement was bullsh*t
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
Ren
Posts: 7,102
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/22/2012 8:30:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/22/2012 8:19:53 PM, imabench wrote:
I thought it was already understood that the OWS movement was bullsh*t

Why? How?? This aversion to the OWS movement is nebulous to me. It's just so... I'm just so shocked.

I expected so much more.

I used to know so many "revolutionary" people, too, but I haven't encountered one in a while. More of my friends, for example, are too caught up with their lives, which isn't something I'm going to judge, but it's strange to me to see how people really just stop caring about very relevant and serious things for just about no reason... and then, when things like this happen, when there's the chance for a social revolution that could, at the very least, spread knowledge and open up the dialectic for further exploration, rather than simply be admonished. I mean... I've never even gotten a real response for all of the arguments I've posted about this movement, what it meant, and its implications. All I get are these derisive or irrelevant responses based on absolutely nothing but trite, pretentious, or irrelevant bullshiit.
imabench
Posts: 21,219
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/22/2012 8:35:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The OWS movement started because people were pissed that banks used bailout money for salary raises. Everybody was ticked off at it, but OWS decided that they would protest the use of their bailout money by banks by camping outside financial institutions. Camping outside though isnt an effective form of protest though because it hasnt changed anything, but anybody still a part of the OWS movement wont admit that because their heads are so far up their a** that all they cant smell reality and only believe their own sh*t.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
Ren
Posts: 7,102
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/22/2012 8:36:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/22/2012 8:35:45 PM, imabench wrote:
The OWS movement started because people were pissed that banks used bailout money for salary raises. Everybody was ticked off at it, but OWS decided that they would protest the use of their bailout money by banks by camping outside financial institutions. Camping outside though isnt an effective form of protest though because it hasnt changed anything, but anybody still a part of the OWS movement wont admit that because their heads are so far up their a** that all they cant smell reality and only believe their own sh*t.

I don't understand -- precisely how should they have protested that would have immediately changed everything?
imabench
Posts: 21,219
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/22/2012 8:38:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/22/2012 8:36:53 PM, Ren wrote:
At 8/22/2012 8:35:45 PM, imabench wrote:
The OWS movement started because people were pissed that banks used bailout money for salary raises. Everybody was ticked off at it, but OWS decided that they would protest the use of their bailout money by banks by camping outside financial institutions. Camping outside though isnt an effective form of protest though because it hasnt changed anything, but anybody still a part of the OWS movement wont admit that because their heads are so far up their a** that all they cant smell reality and only believe their own sh*t.

I don't understand -- precisely how should they have protested that would have immediately changed everything?

they COULDNT, thats the issue. You cant force banks to spend money the way you want because that breaches constitutional rights on so many levels.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
Ren
Posts: 7,102
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/22/2012 8:50:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/22/2012 8:38:59 PM, imabench wrote:
At 8/22/2012 8:36:53 PM, Ren wrote:
At 8/22/2012 8:35:45 PM, imabench wrote:
The OWS movement started because people were pissed that banks used bailout money for salary raises. Everybody was ticked off at it, but OWS decided that they would protest the use of their bailout money by banks by camping outside financial institutions. Camping outside though isnt an effective form of protest though because it hasnt changed anything, but anybody still a part of the OWS movement wont admit that because their heads are so far up their a** that all they cant smell reality and only believe their own sh*t.

I don't understand -- precisely how should they have protested that would have immediately changed everything?

they COULDNT, thats the issue. You cant force banks to spend money the way you want because that breaches constitutional rights on so many levels.

What??? First of all, the point of that question was to draw you to the fact that one cannot simply change a system through a single protest, or type of protest, or single movement. It's supposed to raise awareness, gain attention, pick up steam, and lead to real initiatives once it has some real support. You know, like the Civil Rights Movement, for example.

Second of all, banks get their money from everyone, which they reinvest in themselves to bolster their incomes, while taking as much as possible from the people putting their money there.

If you haven't noticed, BofA, Citibank, and I think, one other, have lost class action cases within the last two years for dubious charges that bled people's accounts dry.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/22/2012 8:54:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Not to mention that this movement was supposed to be about a whole lot more than the egregiously corrupt banking system.
imabench
Posts: 21,219
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/22/2012 8:56:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/22/2012 8:54:13 PM, Ren wrote:
Not to mention that this movement was supposed to be about a whole lot more than the egregiously corrupt banking system.

It was supposed to be, but it fell way short and people quickly lost interest in it because it was evident that they wouldnt succeed.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
Ren
Posts: 7,102
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/22/2012 9:00:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/22/2012 8:56:11 PM, imabench wrote:
At 8/22/2012 8:54:13 PM, Ren wrote:
Not to mention that this movement was supposed to be about a whole lot more than the egregiously corrupt banking system.

It was supposed to be, but it fell way short and people quickly lost interest in it because it was evident that they wouldnt succeed.

That's just so pathetic, though. Wtf.

I don't think that's what it is. I think it's that people derided them and strawmanned their argument, and this prevented it from growing.

That shiit was going on for a good few months and got the attention of a good many people, but media outlets weren't presenting them in any sort of positive light or covering any of the positive things they were doing. It happened right in my neighborhood, and I was able to see firsthand the sort of camaraderie that developed, the thirst for knowledge as people became inspired. But, everyone on Tv, on the radio, people on the internet, are all laughing at them and saying they're about nothing, and have no direction, and are completely foolish.

It's so sad. A tragedy, but a war not yet lost.
imabench
Posts: 21,219
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/22/2012 9:18:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/22/2012 9:00:16 PM, Ren wrote:
At 8/22/2012 8:56:11 PM, imabench wrote:
At 8/22/2012 8:54:13 PM, Ren wrote:
Not to mention that this movement was supposed to be about a whole lot more than the egregiously corrupt banking system.

It was supposed to be, but it fell way short and people quickly lost interest in it because it was evident that they wouldnt succeed.

That's just so pathetic, though. Wtf.

I don't think that's what it is. I think it's that people derided them and strawmanned their argument, and this prevented it from growing.

They themselves cant even agree on what theyre doing! When you add the fact that they accomplished nothing despite going global, it would prevent people from joining it too....

That shiit was going on for a good few months and got the attention of a good many people,

yeah, they scared the sh*t out of Fox News..... good times....

but media outlets weren't presenting them in any sort of positive light or covering any of the positive things they were doing.

such as?

It happened right in my neighborhood, and I was able to see firsthand the sort of camaraderie that developed, the thirst for knowledge as people became inspired. But, everyone on Tv, on the radio, people on the internet, are all laughing at them and saying they're about nothing, and have no direction, and are completely foolish.

they werent about nothing and they use to have direction, but its long gone now.

It's so sad. A tragedy, but a war not yet lost.

People will always be ticked off at the financial system but you cant peacefully protest against it by camping. it doesnt work and anybody who bets all their chips that it would are in for a rude surprise
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/22/2012 10:52:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Just watch some of the videos on them. It becomes pretty clear that 1) they had clear goal 2) it was largely made up of people that were hippies, old 60's protesters wanting a rehash of the good old days, or frankly, lazy do-nothing's that wanted a chance to try to get people to give them stuff.

Some of them were rather sincere, and hard-working Americans.....but a lot were not.

And that's what separates them from the Tea Party. The Tea Party had clear goals, had sincere people, the kind of people the rest of the US tends to relate to. And it helped that the Tea Party rented the places they protested at, and didn't riot.....
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
1Historygenius
Posts: 1,639
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/22/2012 11:00:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I had completely forgotten about these idiots until you brought it up again. Please don't do this ever again.
"The chief business of the American people is business." - Calvin Coolidge

Latest debate - Reagan was a better President than Obama: http://www.debate.org...
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/22/2012 11:03:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/22/2012 8:30:57 PM, Ren wrote:
At 8/22/2012 8:19:53 PM, imabench wrote:
I thought it was already understood that the OWS movement was bullsh*t

Why? How?? This aversion to the OWS movement is nebulous to me. It's just so... I'm just so shocked.

I expected so much more.

I used to know so many "revolutionary" people, too, but I haven't encountered one in a while. More of my friends, for example, are too caught up with their lives, which isn't something I'm going to judge, but it's strange to me to see how people really just stop caring about very relevant and serious things for just about no reason... and then, when things like this happen, when there's the chance for a social revolution that could, at the very least, spread knowledge and open up the dialectic for further exploration, rather than simply be admonished. I mean... I've never even gotten a real response for all of the arguments I've posted about this movement, what it meant, and its implications. All I get are these derisive or irrelevant responses based on absolutely nothing but trite, pretentious, or irrelevant bullshiit.

Maybe they got older, and wiser.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
Aaronroy
Posts: 749
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/23/2012 1:21:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/22/2012 10:52:35 PM, OberHerr wrote:
Just watch some of the videos on them. It becomes pretty clear that 1) they had clear goal 2) it was largely made up of people that were hippies, old 60's protesters wanting a rehash of the good old days, or frankly, lazy do-nothing's that wanted a chance to try to get people to give them stuff.

Some of them were rather sincere, and hard-working Americans.....but a lot were not.

And that's what separates them from the Tea Party. The Tea Party had clear goals, had sincere people, the kind of people the rest of the US tends to relate to. And it helped that the Tea Party rented the places they protested at, and didn't riot.....

Yes, 'sincere people' who protest yelling 'The only good communist is a dead communist!', signs that depict people with their heads on spikes, invite homophobes as their spokespersons/speakers, and a gamut of people who were ignorant to what the political position 'Czar' is. A bunch of elderly fear-mongers is not what the rest of US 'tends to relate to'.

If you're going to give a worthwhile analysis of political movements, take the wholesome time to depict each side respectively.

Both movements were filled with dumb people. OWS had more of a bohemian vibe to it while the Tea Party had more of a conservative vibe to it. They both equally had idiots involved, and I feel they had similar number of idiots on both sides. The Tea Party rallies were primarily 1-day events which catered to middle-aged to elderly conservative citizens. OWS, however, was designed from the beginning to be rally events that would last for a period of time (hence why they set up camps) which adhered to essentially anyone who had sentiment against crony capitalism (which accounts for many groups, from right-leaning libertarians all the way to Anarcho-Communists.) The Tea Parties toted around a lot of firearms while the Occupiers toked up a bit on some mary jane.

I attended Occupy Richmond a while back and I relatively enjoyed by stay there; I met a lot of interesting and friendly people who had a lot of insight on many issues.

From what I've seen, it's clearly that both sides have their established goals and beliefs. I find it completely narrow-minded to marginalize one of the movements exclusively due to that each movement has a degree of stupidity behind it.
turn down for h'what
Aaronroy
Posts: 749
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/23/2012 1:23:41 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/22/2012 11:03:45 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 8/22/2012 8:30:57 PM, Ren wrote:
At 8/22/2012 8:19:53 PM, imabench wrote:
I thought it was already understood that the OWS movement was bullsh*t

Why? How?? This aversion to the OWS movement is nebulous to me. It's just so... I'm just so shocked.

I expected so much more.

I used to know so many "revolutionary" people, too, but I haven't encountered one in a while. More of my friends, for example, are too caught up with their lives, which isn't something I'm going to judge, but it's strange to me to see how people really just stop caring about very relevant and serious things for just about no reason... and then, when things like this happen, when there's the chance for a social revolution that could, at the very least, spread knowledge and open up the dialectic for further exploration, rather than simply be admonished. I mean... I've never even gotten a real response for all of the arguments I've posted about this movement, what it meant, and its implications. All I get are these derisive or irrelevant responses based on absolutely nothing but trite, pretentious, or irrelevant bullshiit.

Maybe they got older, and wiser.

Because with age ALWAYS comes wisdom, right?
turn down for h'what
OllerupMand
Posts: 375
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/23/2012 1:45:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/22/2012 8:16:57 PM, Ren wrote:
If there's one thing I've heard way too much, it's that the Occupy Wall Street Movement had no direction; no meaning. I would like to introduce another brilliant soliloquy that very clearly illustrates the perspectives that underly the movement. Discuss.



I like the video. Even though the problems it talks about are so far away from my world. I have always found the OWS movement very sympathic. A lot of people gathering, because they know the system is wrong and they want to change it, but at the same time they don't have any answears. It is that kind of actions that keeps a democracy alive and relevant. No matter how it goes for the actuel OWS movement, I am sure that we will hear from groups who meet there, organizations that started there and about ideas first thought there for a long long time.
NixonianVolkswagen
Posts: 481
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/23/2012 6:12:22 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/22/2012 10:52:35 PM, OberHerr wrote:
Just watch some of the videos on them. It becomes pretty clear that 1) they had clear goal 2) it was largely made up of people that were hippies, old 60's protesters wanting a rehash of the good old days, or frankly, lazy do-nothing's that wanted a chance to try to get people to give them stuff.

Some of them were rather sincere, and hard-working Americans.....but a lot were not.

And that's what separates them from the Tea Party. The Tea Party had clear goals, had sincere people, the kind of people the rest of the US tends to relate to. And it helped that the Tea Party rented the places they protested at, and didn't riot.....

How can you say this given the Tea Party's corporate backing? If you pour money into a nexus of ideas, or movement, it can become potent. People doing something only because they believe in it, such as Occupy, which has nothing but negative repercussions for them in the short-term is, ceteris paribus, more laudable.

This is aside from any idea of rightness or wrongness: if you're backed by the powerful, and nothing bad happens to you other than some bad press, then you're doing something less daring than those who are opposed by the powerful, and to whom bad things are happening (arrest, incarceration, violence, loss of future employment opportunities, etc.).
"There is an almost universal tendency, perhaps an inborn tendency, to suspect the good faith of a man who holds opinions that differ from our own opinions."

- Karl "Spartacus" Popper
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/30/2012 6:24:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Immortal Technique? Seriously?
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/30/2012 6:25:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/23/2012 6:12:22 AM, NixonianVolkswagen wrote:
At 8/22/2012 10:52:35 PM, OberHerr wrote:
Just watch some of the videos on them. It becomes pretty clear that 1) they had clear goal 2) it was largely made up of people that were hippies, old 60's protesters wanting a rehash of the good old days, or frankly, lazy do-nothing's that wanted a chance to try to get people to give them stuff.

Some of them were rather sincere, and hard-working Americans.....but a lot were not.

And that's what separates them from the Tea Party. The Tea Party had clear goals, had sincere people, the kind of people the rest of the US tends to relate to. And it helped that the Tea Party rented the places they protested at, and didn't riot.....

How can you say this given the Tea Party's corporate backing? If you pour money into a nexus of ideas, or movement, it can become potent. People doing something only because they believe in it, such as Occupy, which has nothing but negative repercussions for them in the short-term is, ceteris paribus, more laudable.

This is aside from any idea of rightness or wrongness: if you're backed by the powerful, and nothing bad happens to you other than some bad press, then you're doing something less daring than those who are opposed by the powerful, and to whom bad things are happening (arrest, incarceration, violence, loss of future employment opportunities, etc.).

Hey turns out the occupy movement has corporate backing too:

http://www.benjerry.com...

http://www.alternet.org...'s_and_other_companies_are_supporting_occupy_wall_street

They are also themselves incorporated:

http://www.indecisionforever.com...
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/30/2012 7:00:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/30/2012 6:25:37 PM, Ren wrote:
At 9/30/2012 6:24:51 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Immortal Technique? Seriously?

Yes.

Dead asss serious.

Did you listen? ^_^

Thanks, but I'd rather not take political advice from the person who was with the person who raped his mom.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
imabench
Posts: 21,219
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/30/2012 7:05:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/30/2012 7:00:27 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 9/30/2012 6:25:37 PM, Ren wrote:
At 9/30/2012 6:24:51 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Immortal Technique? Seriously?

Yes.

Dead asss serious.

Did you listen? ^_^

Thanks, but I'd rather not take political advice from the person who was with the person who raped his mom.

wait what?????
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
Ren
Posts: 7,102
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/30/2012 7:07:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/30/2012 7:00:27 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 9/30/2012 6:25:37 PM, Ren wrote:
At 9/30/2012 6:24:51 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Immortal Technique? Seriously?

Yes.

Dead asss serious.

Did you listen? ^_^

Thanks, but I'd rather not take political advice from the person who was with the person who raped his mom.

LMFAO

First... it was just a song.

But, you're kind of dope for knowing that song.

So intense... isn't it the truth.

Here, for everyone who doesn't know the reference:
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/30/2012 7:07:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/30/2012 7:05:46 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/30/2012 7:00:27 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 9/30/2012 6:25:37 PM, Ren wrote:
At 9/30/2012 6:24:51 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Immortal Technique? Seriously?

Yes.

Dead asss serious.

Did you listen? ^_^

Thanks, but I'd rather not take political advice from the person who was with the person who raped his mom.

wait what?????
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."