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Flat Tax v. Progressive Tax

adontimasu
Posts: 93
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8/23/2012 2:50:31 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
This issue is seriously irritating me. While I am aware that a progressive tax is unfair to the rich who earned their money (as it practically punishes them for working hard), I am also aware that the flat tax, which would solve this issue, would cause financial distress to the poor. What are your views on both of these issues, and how did you choose one over the other?
adontimasu
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8/23/2012 2:52:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Assuming you chose one over the other; those who chose other taxation options, like a fair tax, you can post why you believe this form of taxation over the main two.
Chaos88
Posts: 247
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8/23/2012 4:24:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
To me, government's role is to protect its citizens from force and fraud. Thus, a progressive tax is fair, because the richer one is, the more they have to lose from force and fraud.
If you think of it like insurance, the more you insure for, the more you pay.

Obviously, the rich would pay more in taxes than the poor under a flat tax, too. But, the issue is the rich have more ability to generate more revenue, thus they benefit more from our current system. Perhaps under a different type of government, like a monarchy, I would change my opinion, but I am for the progressive income tax in America, complete with all of its complexites and incentives.

The poor would suffer much under a fair tax, generally because of the massive credits they receive. The bottom 51% of Americans, as an aggregate, pay no federal income taxes. If we were to phase these credits out, then the swtich to a different tax system would be less burdensome to the poor.

However, I don't think we can adopt a "simple" tax plan like how the flat tax is marketed (you make this much, you pay this much). There are certain things, especially for businesses, that are treated differently under the tax code than in normal situations (like depreciation or not paying federal taxes on other taxes). So, I think in this light, all other plans lose their appeal, because the tax code will still be complex, and still have its alleged "loopholes".
adontimasu
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8/23/2012 5:12:43 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/23/2012 3:11:56 AM, OllerupMand wrote:
I don't see how progressive taxes are unfair. You still get more for working more.

Yeah, and you pay more in taxes, too.
OllerupMand
Posts: 375
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8/23/2012 5:24:37 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/23/2012 5:12:43 AM, adontimasu wrote:
At 8/23/2012 3:11:56 AM, OllerupMand wrote:
I don't see how progressive taxes are unfair. You still get more for working more.

Yeah, and you pay more in taxes, too.

Yah, but you also pay more if you earn more with flat taxes.
adontimasu
Posts: 93
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8/23/2012 11:32:15 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/23/2012 5:24:37 AM, OllerupMand wrote:
At 8/23/2012 5:12:43 AM, adontimasu wrote:
At 8/23/2012 3:11:56 AM, OllerupMand wrote:
I don't see how progressive taxes are unfair. You still get more for working more.

Yeah, and you pay more in taxes, too.

Yah, but you also pay more if you earn more with flat taxes.

Yes, but a progressive tax rate would make the rich pay taxes at a higher rate than the poor, while a flat tax would make the rich and poor pay a set percentage of their earnings, with no change in regards to that percentage.
imabench
Posts: 21,216
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8/23/2012 11:47:40 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/23/2012 2:50:31 AM, adontimasu wrote:
This issue is seriously irritating me. While I am aware that a progressive tax is unfair to the rich who earned their money (as it practically punishes them for working hard), I am also aware that the flat tax, which would solve this issue, would cause financial distress to the poor. What are your views on both of these issues, and how did you choose one over the other?

my view is that you pick your poison, and in my opinion the rich who have so much to give paying more is a better poison then the poor who have so little to give giving just about everything
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

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Frederick53
Posts: 1,037
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8/23/2012 11:53:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Well actually both of those claims falsely victimize people.

The poor generally don't pay taxes, so a flat tax wouldn't really effect them.

On the other hand, the rich are rich because they were born into opportunity. The playing field is not even close to being level, so to say that it is unfair to tax those who have had an easier time in life more than those who have had to struggle doesn't make much sense.
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imabench
Posts: 21,216
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8/23/2012 12:03:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
flat tax vs progressive tax gets exponentially more difficult to decide between as each new factor is taken into account
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

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Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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8/23/2012 12:42:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Definitely flat tax. About 50% of americans don't pay any taxes at all, while using public goods. Effectively, they are leaching off of society.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
OllerupMand
Posts: 375
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8/23/2012 1:08:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I don't see why poor people don't or shouldn't pay taxes. It must be hard not to contribute to society. I would still go for a progresive tax, but make it so everybody pay at least a little.
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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8/23/2012 1:26:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/23/2012 3:11:56 AM, OllerupMand wrote:
I don't see how progressive taxes are unfair. You still get more for working more.

fair can be used as a noun or a veb.
(n) tax, taxation, revenue enhancement (charge against a citizen's person or property or activity for the support of government)
(v) tax (levy a tax on)
http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu...

(adj) fair, just (free from favoritism or self-interest or bias or deception; conforming with established standards or rules)
(adv) fairly, fair, evenhandedly (without favoring one party, in a fair evenhanded manner)
http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu...

If tax is used as a noun, a fair tax would be "a charge against a citizen's person, property or activity for the support of government, which is free from favoritism, self interest or bias."

If tax is used as a verb, than to fairly tax something would be to "levy a tax on something, without favoring one party".

The English oxford dictionary defines fair as;

adjective
treating people equally without favouritism or discrimination
adverb
without cheating or trying to achieve unjust advantage

http://oxforddictionaries.com...

The American English oxford dictionary defines fair as;

adjective
considerable though not outstanding in size or amount
adverb
without cheating or trying to achieve unjust advantage

http://oxforddictionaries.com...
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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8/23/2012 1:27:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/23/2012 1:26:09 PM, DanT wrote:
At 8/23/2012 3:11:56 AM, OllerupMand wrote:
I don't see how progressive taxes are unfair. You still get more for working more.

fair can be used as a noun or a veb.
(n) tax, taxation, revenue enhancement (charge against a citizen's person or property or activity for the support of government)
(v) tax (levy a tax on)
http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu...

(adj) fair, just (free from favoritism or self-interest or bias or deception; conforming with established standards or rules)
(adv) fairly, fair, evenhandedly (without favoring one party, in a fair evenhanded manner)
http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu...

If tax is used as a noun, a fair tax would be "a charge against a citizen's person, property or activity for the support of government, which is free from favoritism, self interest or bias."

If tax is used as a verb, than to fairly tax something would be to "levy a tax on something, without favoring one party".



The English oxford dictionary defines fair as;

adjective
treating people equally without favouritism or discrimination
adverb
without cheating or trying to achieve unjust advantage

http://oxforddictionaries.com...

The American English oxford dictionary defines fair as;

adjective
considerable though not outstanding in size or amount
it also gives the definition;
just or appropriate in the circumstances
adverb
without cheating or trying to achieve unjust advantage

http://oxforddictionaries.com...
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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8/23/2012 1:43:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Taxing 95 people who make $15,000, at a rate of 10% would bring in a revenue of $142,500.
Taxing 5 people who make $100,000, at a rate of 25% would bring in a revenue of $125,000.

If the those 5 people making $100,000 were taxed at a 100% rate, it would bring in a revenue of $500,000.
A 35.1% tax rate for the 95 people making $15,000 would bring in a revenue of $500,175.

In other words, if 95% of the population only made $15k a year, and 5% made $100k, than a 100% tax rate on the top 5% would bring in less revenue than a 35% tax on the bottom 98%. A 50% tax on the bottom 98% would actually bring in 143% as much revenue as a 100% on the top 5%.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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8/23/2012 1:45:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/23/2012 1:43:12 PM, DanT wrote:
Taxing 95 people who make $15,000, at a rate of 10% would bring in a revenue of $142,500.
Taxing 5 people who make $100,000, at a rate of 25% would bring in a revenue of $125,000.

If the those 5 people making $100,000 were taxed at a 100% rate, it would bring in a revenue of $500,000.
A 35.1% tax rate for the 95 people making $15,000 would bring in a revenue of $500,175.

In other words, if 95% of the population only made $15k a year, and 5% made $100k, than a 100% tax rate on the top 5% would bring in less revenue than a 35% tax on the bottom 98%. A 50% tax on the bottom 98% would actually bring in 143% as much revenue as a 100% on the top 5%.

The only justification for a progressive tax system is the redistribution of wealth. Whether or not such a justification is right depends on one's personal moral principles.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
OllerupMand
Posts: 375
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8/23/2012 2:09:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/23/2012 1:45:11 PM, DanT wrote:
At 8/23/2012 1:43:12 PM, DanT wrote:
Taxing 95 people who make $15,000, at a rate of 10% would bring in a revenue of $142,500.
Taxing 5 people who make $100,000, at a rate of 25% would bring in a revenue of $125,000.

If the those 5 people making $100,000 were taxed at a 100% rate, it would bring in a revenue of $500,000.
A 35.1% tax rate for the 95 people making $15,000 would bring in a revenue of $500,175.

In other words, if 95% of the population only made $15k a year, and 5% made $100k, than a 100% tax rate on the top 5% would bring in less revenue than a 35% tax on the bottom 98%. A 50% tax on the bottom 98% would actually bring in 143% as much revenue as a 100% on the top 5%.

The only justification for a progressive tax system is the redistribution of wealth. Whether or not such a justification is right depends on one's personal moral principles.

You have quit an ability have you ever thought about becoming a politician?
The same can be said about a flat tax system where you pay a flat percentage of your income. Some still pay more than other so it is also wealth redistribution. If all payed the same flat amount then it wouldn't. The problem with paying a flat amount of money is that some people may be unable to afford it. You have the same problem with a flat tax. I may be able to surviev with the state taking 50% of my income, but others may not.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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8/23/2012 2:21:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I recant, all taxes are payed by the poor.

If you own a business, you simply pass on the tax to your workers and customers.
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DanT
Posts: 5,693
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8/23/2012 3:38:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/23/2012 2:09:20 PM, OllerupMand wrote:
At 8/23/2012 1:45:11 PM, DanT wrote:
At 8/23/2012 1:43:12 PM, DanT wrote:
Taxing 95 people who make $15,000, at a rate of 10% would bring in a revenue of $142,500.
Taxing 5 people who make $100,000, at a rate of 25% would bring in a revenue of $125,000.

If the those 5 people making $100,000 were taxed at a 100% rate, it would bring in a revenue of $500,000.
A 35.1% tax rate for the 95 people making $15,000 would bring in a revenue of $500,175.

In other words, if 95% of the population only made $15k a year, and 5% made $100k, than a 100% tax rate on the top 5% would bring in less revenue than a 35% tax on the bottom 98%. A 50% tax on the bottom 98% would actually bring in 143% as much revenue as a 100% on the top 5%.

The only justification for a progressive tax system is the redistribution of wealth. Whether or not such a justification is right depends on one's personal moral principles.

You have quit an ability have you ever thought about becoming a politician?
The same can be said about a flat tax system where you pay a flat percentage of your income. Some still pay more than other so it is also wealth redistribution. If all payed the same flat amount then it wouldn't. The problem with paying a flat amount of money is that some people may be unable to afford it. You have the same problem with a flat tax. I may be able to surviev with the state taking 50% of my income, but others may not.

A flat tax is in proportionate to the amount of income someone earns, whereas a progressive tax is disproportionate.
A tax on income can only be done through percentages, otherwise it's not a tax on income but rather a tax on individuals.

With a flat tax someone who makes $15,000 pays the same rate as someone who makes $150,000.
So the before income and after tax income for a 10% flat rate are as followed;
$15,000 before; $13,500 after
$150,000 before; $135,000 after

In regards to a progressive tax rate, where someone making $15,000 pays 10% and someone making $150,000 pays 20%, the before and after income is as followed;
$15,000 before; $13,500 after
$150,000 before; $120,000 after

In regards to a regressive tax rate , where someone making $15,000 pays 20% and someone making $150,000 pays 10%, the before and after income is as followed;
$15,000 before; $12,000 after
$150,000 before; $135,000 after

In other words, progressive ad regressive taxes are redistributive, but flat taxes are not.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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8/23/2012 3:39:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/23/2012 2:21:43 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I recant, all taxes are payed by the poor.

If you own a business, you simply pass on the tax to your workers and customers.

If you ask me all taxes should be indirect taxes, and should be as simple as possible. Such as a flat national sales tax.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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8/23/2012 3:41:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/23/2012 3:39:30 PM, DanT wrote:
At 8/23/2012 2:21:43 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I recant, all taxes are payed by the poor.

If you own a business, you simply pass on the tax to your workers and customers.

If you ask me all taxes should be indirect taxes, and should be as simple as possible. Such as a flat national sales tax.

National sales tax should only be placed on interstate and international trade (including internet purchases).
State sales tax should apply to all in-state trade (which does not include the internet).
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
OllerupMand
Posts: 375
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8/23/2012 3:45:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/23/2012 3:38:11 PM, DanT wrote:
At 8/23/2012 2:09:20 PM, OllerupMand wrote:
At 8/23/2012 1:45:11 PM, DanT wrote:
At 8/23/2012 1:43:12 PM, DanT wrote:
Taxing 95 people who make $15,000, at a rate of 10% would bring in a revenue of $142,500.
Taxing 5 people who make $100,000, at a rate of 25% would bring in a revenue of $125,000.

If the those 5 people making $100,000 were taxed at a 100% rate, it would bring in a revenue of $500,000.
A 35.1% tax rate for the 95 people making $15,000 would bring in a revenue of $500,175.

In other words, if 95% of the population only made $15k a year, and 5% made $100k, than a 100% tax rate on the top 5% would bring in less revenue than a 35% tax on the bottom 98%. A 50% tax on the bottom 98% would actually bring in 143% as much revenue as a 100% on the top 5%.

The only justification for a progressive tax system is the redistribution of wealth. Whether or not such a justification is right depends on one's personal moral principles.

You have quit an ability have you ever thought about becoming a politician?
The same can be said about a flat tax system where you pay a flat percentage of your income. Some still pay more than other so it is also wealth redistribution. If all payed the same flat amount then it wouldn't. The problem with paying a flat amount of money is that some people may be unable to afford it. You have the same problem with a flat tax. I may be able to surviev with the state taking 50% of my income, but others may not.

A flat tax is in proportionate to the amount of income someone earns, whereas a progressive tax is disproportionate.
A tax on income can only be done through percentages, otherwise it's not a tax on income but rather a tax on individuals.

With a flat tax someone who makes $15,000 pays the same rate as someone who makes $150,000.
So the before income and after tax income for a 10% flat rate are as followed;
$15,000 before; $13,500 after
$150,000 before; $135,000 after

In regards to a progressive tax rate, where someone making $15,000 pays 10% and someone making $150,000 pays 20%, the before and after income is as followed;
$15,000 before; $13,500 after
$150,000 before; $120,000 after

In regards to a regressive tax rate , where someone making $15,000 pays 20% and someone making $150,000 pays 10%, the before and after income is as followed;
$15,000 before; $12,000 after
$150,000 before; $135,000 after

In other words, progressive ad regressive taxes are redistributive, but flat taxes are not.

Why? With a flat tax you still pay more if your rich than if your poor. You still get the same service. So the rich is paying for the poor. I would call that redistribution of wealth.
DanT
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8/23/2012 4:02:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/23/2012 3:45:44 PM, OllerupMand wrote:
At 8/23/2012 3:38:11 PM, DanT wrote:
At 8/23/2012 2:09:20 PM, OllerupMand wrote:
At 8/23/2012 1:45:11 PM, DanT wrote:
At 8/23/2012 1:43:12 PM, DanT wrote:
Taxing 95 people who make $15,000, at a rate of 10% would bring in a revenue of $142,500.
Taxing 5 people who make $100,000, at a rate of 25% would bring in a revenue of $125,000.

If the those 5 people making $100,000 were taxed at a 100% rate, it would bring in a revenue of $500,000.
A 35.1% tax rate for the 95 people making $15,000 would bring in a revenue of $500,175.

In other words, if 95% of the population only made $15k a year, and 5% made $100k, than a 100% tax rate on the top 5% would bring in less revenue than a 35% tax on the bottom 98%. A 50% tax on the bottom 98% would actually bring in 143% as much revenue as a 100% on the top 5%.

The only justification for a progressive tax system is the redistribution of wealth. Whether or not such a justification is right depends on one's personal moral principles.

You have quit an ability have you ever thought about becoming a politician?
The same can be said about a flat tax system where you pay a flat percentage of your income. Some still pay more than other so it is also wealth redistribution. If all payed the same flat amount then it wouldn't. The problem with paying a flat amount of money is that some people may be unable to afford it. You have the same problem with a flat tax. I may be able to surviev with the state taking 50% of my income, but others may not.

A flat tax is in proportionate to the amount of income someone earns, whereas a progressive tax is disproportionate.
A tax on income can only be done through percentages, otherwise it's not a tax on income but rather a tax on individuals.

With a flat tax someone who makes $15,000 pays the same rate as someone who makes $150,000.
So the before income and after tax income for a 10% flat rate are as followed;
$15,000 before; $13,500 after
$150,000 before; $135,000 after

In regards to a progressive tax rate, where someone making $15,000 pays 10% and someone making $150,000 pays 20%, the before and after income is as followed;
$15,000 before; $13,500 after
$150,000 before; $120,000 after

In regards to a regressive tax rate , where someone making $15,000 pays 20% and someone making $150,000 pays 10%, the before and after income is as followed;
$15,000 before; $12,000 after
$150,000 before; $135,000 after

In other words, progressive ad regressive taxes are redistributive, but flat taxes are not.

Why? With a flat tax you still pay more if your rich than if your poor. You still get the same service. So the rich is paying for the poor. I would call that redistribution of wealth.

The tax does not determine where the wealth goes to, the appropriation bill does. The rich pay the same percentage rate as the poor.

Say the tax rate is 10%

Someone who earns $15,000 pays $1,500 in taxes, while someone who earns $150,000 pays $15,000 in taxes. Together that's $16,500 of taxes.

Before tax income ratio;
Rich: 91%
Poor: 9%
After tax income ratio;
Rich: 91%
Poor: 9%
Tax contribution ratio;
Rich: 91%
Poor: 9%

Now say each person was required to pay $8,250 in taxes rather than a percentage.

Before tax income ratio;
Rich: 91%
Poor: 9%
After tax income ratio;
Rich: 95%
Poor: 5%
Tax contribution ratio;
Rich: 50%
Poor: 50%

As you can see paying the same amount of taxes is more redistributive than paying the same tax rate.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Chaos88
Posts: 247
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8/23/2012 4:04:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Sales taxes are generally regressive in nature as well.

Since I am only taxed on what I buy, if I make 10x more than you, if I don't spend 10x more than you, I paid a lower percent.

Any tax system will have its pros and cons.
Chaos88
Posts: 247
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8/23/2012 4:09:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/23/2012 12:42:30 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Definitely flat tax. About 50% of americans don't pay any taxes at all, while using public goods. Effectively, they are leaching off of society.

This can only be true if you account for children, and maybe not even then.

The stat I hear over and over from the right is the "bottom 51%". I don't believe this is true, because I know people in the bottom 20% that pay taxes.

I think it is an aggregate. Of the bottom 51%, there is an equal number of dollars paid in to the IRS by taxpayers, and dollars going to others of this group. Yes, there are people that look forward to April 15, because they actually get checks for thousands of dollars (in addition to any witholdings being paid back).
NixonianVolkswagen
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8/23/2012 4:23:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/23/2012 12:42:30 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Definitely flat tax. About 50% of americans don't pay any taxes at all, while using public goods. Effectively, they are leaching off of society.

This isn't true. Half of Americans pay no Federal income tax.
"There is an almost universal tendency, perhaps an inborn tendency, to suspect the good faith of a man who holds opinions that differ from our own opinions."

- Karl "Spartacus" Popper
OllerupMand
Posts: 375
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8/23/2012 4:31:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/23/2012 4:02:27 PM, DanT wrote:
At 8/23/2012 3:45:44 PM, OllerupMand wrote:
At 8/23/2012 3:38:11 PM, DanT wrote:
At 8/23/2012 2:09:20 PM, OllerupMand wrote:
At 8/23/2012 1:45:11 PM, DanT wrote:
At 8/23/2012 1:43:12 PM, DanT wrote:
Taxing 95 people who make $15,000, at a rate of 10% would bring in a revenue of $142,500.
Taxing 5 people who make $100,000, at a rate of 25% would bring in a revenue of $125,000.

If the those 5 people making $100,000 were taxed at a 100% rate, it would bring in a revenue of $500,000.
A 35.1% tax rate for the 95 people making $15,000 would bring in a revenue of $500,175.

In other words, if 95% of the population only made $15k a year, and 5% made $100k, than a 100% tax rate on the top 5% would bring in less revenue than a 35% tax on the bottom 98%. A 50% tax on the bottom 98% would actually bring in 143% as much revenue as a 100% on the top 5%.

The only justification for a progressive tax system is the redistribution of wealth. Whether or not such a justification is right depends on one's personal moral principles.

You have quit an ability have you ever thought about becoming a politician?
The same can be said about a flat tax system where you pay a flat percentage of your income. Some still pay more than other so it is also wealth redistribution. If all payed the same flat amount then it wouldn't. The problem with paying a flat amount of money is that some people may be unable to afford it. You have the same problem with a flat tax. I may be able to surviev with the state taking 50% of my income, but others may not.

A flat tax is in proportionate to the amount of income someone earns, whereas a progressive tax is disproportionate.
A tax on income can only be done through percentages, otherwise it's not a tax on income but rather a tax on individuals.

With a flat tax someone who makes $15,000 pays the same rate as someone who makes $150,000.
So the before income and after tax income for a 10% flat rate are as followed;
$15,000 before; $13,500 after
$150,000 before; $135,000 after

In regards to a progressive tax rate, where someone making $15,000 pays 10% and someone making $150,000 pays 20%, the before and after income is as followed;
$15,000 before; $13,500 after
$150,000 before; $120,000 after

In regards to a regressive tax rate , where someone making $15,000 pays 20% and someone making $150,000 pays 10%, the before and after income is as followed;
$15,000 before; $12,000 after
$150,000 before; $135,000 after

In other words, progressive ad regressive taxes are redistributive, but flat taxes are not.

Why? With a flat tax you still pay more if your rich than if your poor. You still get the same service. So the rich is paying for the poor. I would call that redistribution of wealth.

The tax does not determine where the wealth goes to, the appropriation bill does. The rich pay the same percentage rate as the poor.

Say the tax rate is 10%

Someone who earns $15,000 pays $1,500 in taxes, while someone who earns $150,000 pays $15,000 in taxes. Together that's $16,500 of taxes.

Before tax income ratio;
Rich: 91%
Poor: 9%
After tax income ratio;
Rich: 91%
Poor: 9%
Tax contribution ratio;
Rich: 91%
Poor: 9%

Now say each person was required to pay $8,250 in taxes rather than a percentage.

Before tax income ratio;
Rich: 91%
Poor: 9%
After tax income ratio;
Rich: 95%
Poor: 5%
Tax contribution ratio;
Rich: 50%
Poor: 50%

As you can see paying the same amount of taxes is more redistributive than paying the same tax rate.

But that is only if you see it without the benefits you get from taxes and it only works as long as you look on their wealth as a ratio instead of their actuel value.

How about if we look at it with a 99.99% tax rate. It takes more or less all what we earns, but then it pays for all what we need. Let us call the system for notquitkommunisme. The rich earns 150,000£ and the poor earns 15,000£.

Run some DanT math
Before tax income ratio;
Rich: 91%
Poor: 9%
After tax income ratio;
Rich: 91%
Poor: 9%
Tax contribution ratio;
Rich: 91%
Poor: 9%

By your logic this is not wealth redistribution. I will still claim it is.
Lordknukle
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8/23/2012 5:03:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/23/2012 4:23:47 PM, NixonianVolkswagen wrote:
At 8/23/2012 12:42:30 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Definitely flat tax. About 50% of americans don't pay any taxes at all, while using public goods. Effectively, they are leaching off of society.

This isn't true. Half of Americans pay no Federal income tax.

That's what I meant. Income taxes are what pays for public goods.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Lordknukle
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8/23/2012 5:05:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/23/2012 4:09:45 PM, Chaos88 wrote:
At 8/23/2012 12:42:30 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Definitely flat tax. About 50% of americans don't pay any taxes at all, while using public goods. Effectively, they are leaching off of society.

This can only be true if you account for children, and maybe not even then.

The stat I hear over and over from the right is the "bottom 51%". I don't believe this is true, because I know people in the bottom 20% that pay taxes.

I think it is an aggregate. Of the bottom 51%, there is an equal number of dollars paid in to the IRS by taxpayers, and dollars going to others of this group. Yes, there are people that look forward to April 15, because they actually get checks for thousands of dollars (in addition to any witholdings being paid back).

Completely wrong.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk...
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."