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Pregnant 2 weeks before conception?

Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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8/26/2012 10:41:26 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
How does this work...?
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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8/26/2012 11:10:58 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/26/2012 10:41:26 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
How does this work...?

there's no way to really "know" at what day conception occurs, so there are certain legal definitions to what is considered conception. The bill simply state its "calculated from the first day of the last menstrual period of the pregnant woman".
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Deathbeforedishonour
Posts: 1,060
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8/26/2012 11:14:10 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/26/2012 10:41:26 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
How does this work...?

The law defines pregnancy in a way that bans abortion two weeks before the other seven states with similar laws, because it calculates gestational age starting with the first day of the last menstrual period rather than the date of conception. ~ Michelle Steinberg

It is basically an intellectually and medically dishonest way of reducing the amount of time women in Arizona will have to get a legal abortion..
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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8/26/2012 11:16:00 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/26/2012 11:14:10 AM, Deathbeforedishonour wrote:
At 8/26/2012 10:41:26 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
How does this work...?

The law defines pregnancy in a way that bans abortion two weeks before the other seven states with similar laws, because it calculates gestational age starting with the first day of the last menstrual period rather than the date of conception. ~ Michelle Steinberg

It is basically an intellectually and medically dishonest way of reducing the amount of time women in Arizona will have to get a legal abortion..

Right....sort of like how doctors are intellectually dishonest.

But while the bill's definition of when pregnancy begins is new in legislation, it's not necessarily new for doctors. Elizabeth Nash, states issues manager for Guttmacher Institute, a reproductive health research organization in Washington, said it corresponds with how doctors typically determine gestational age.
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Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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8/26/2012 12:06:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/26/2012 11:16:00 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 8/26/2012 11:14:10 AM, Deathbeforedishonour wrote:
At 8/26/2012 10:41:26 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
How does this work...?

The law defines pregnancy in a way that bans abortion two weeks before the other seven states with similar laws, because it calculates gestational age starting with the first day of the last menstrual period rather than the date of conception. ~ Michelle Steinberg

It is basically an intellectually and medically dishonest way of reducing the amount of time women in Arizona will have to get a legal abortion..

Right....sort of like how doctors are intellectually dishonest.

But while the bill's definition of when pregnancy begins is new in legislation, it's not necessarily new for doctors. Elizabeth Nash, states issues manager for Guttmacher Institute, a reproductive health research organization in Washington, said it corresponds with how doctors typically determine gestational age.

If said doctors want to stop a medical procedure from being performed based on the idea that an embryo deserves different treatment from an egg/sperm, then yes, they are being intellectually dishonest in using that as a measurement.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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8/26/2012 12:09:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/26/2012 12:06:13 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 8/26/2012 11:16:00 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 8/26/2012 11:14:10 AM, Deathbeforedishonour wrote:
At 8/26/2012 10:41:26 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
How does this work...?

The law defines pregnancy in a way that bans abortion two weeks before the other seven states with similar laws, because it calculates gestational age starting with the first day of the last menstrual period rather than the date of conception. ~ Michelle Steinberg

It is basically an intellectually and medically dishonest way of reducing the amount of time women in Arizona will have to get a legal abortion..

Right....sort of like how doctors are intellectually dishonest.

But while the bill's definition of when pregnancy begins is new in legislation, it's not necessarily new for doctors. Elizabeth Nash, states issues manager for Guttmacher Institute, a reproductive health research organization in Washington, said it corresponds with how doctors typically determine gestational age.

If said doctors want to stop a medical procedure from being performed based on the idea that an embryo deserves different treatment from an egg/sperm, then yes, they are being intellectually dishonest in using that as a measurement.

Except that's not what the bill says. Abortions are legal everywhere in the US based on Roe vs. Wade.
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royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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8/26/2012 1:50:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/26/2012 11:16:00 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 8/26/2012 11:14:10 AM, Deathbeforedishonour wrote:
At 8/26/2012 10:41:26 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
How does this work...?

The law defines pregnancy in a way that bans abortion two weeks before the other seven states with similar laws, because it calculates gestational age starting with the first day of the last menstrual period rather than the date of conception. ~ Michelle Steinberg

It is basically an intellectually and medically dishonest way of reducing the amount of time women in Arizona will have to get a legal abortion..

Right....sort of like how doctors are intellectually dishonest.

But while the bill's definition of when pregnancy begins is new in legislation, it's not necessarily new for doctors. Elizabeth Nash, states issues manager for Guttmacher Institute, a reproductive health research organization in Washington, said it corresponds with how doctors typically determine gestational age.

That is for procedural purposes . . . Nash also opposes the bill.

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Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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8/26/2012 1:54:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
What's important about the bill isn't necessarily what it defines pregnancy as as much as the implications: it means abortions are not allowed before the time frame reserved for testing which shows fatal fetal abnormalities.
Greyparrot
Posts: 18,691
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8/26/2012 2:08:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/26/2012 1:54:06 PM, Wnope wrote:
What's important about the bill isn't necessarily what it defines pregnancy as as much as the implications: it means abortions are not allowed before the time frame reserved for testing which shows fatal fetal abnormalities.

nice 4k post.
I find myself intrigued by your subvocal oscillations.
A singular development of cat communications
That obviates your basic hedonistic predilection,
For a rhythmic stroking of your fur to demonstrate affection.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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8/26/2012 2:10:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/26/2012 1:54:06 PM, Wnope wrote:
What's important about the bill isn't necessarily what it defines pregnancy as as much as the implications: it means abortions are not allowed before the time frame reserved for testing which shows fatal fetal abnormalities.

Really, you can't see that during the time frame in which the Arizona law states?
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Greyparrot
Posts: 18,691
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8/26/2012 2:11:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/26/2012 2:10:16 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 8/26/2012 1:54:06 PM, Wnope wrote:
What's important about the bill isn't necessarily what it defines pregnancy as as much as the implications: it means abortions are not allowed before the time frame reserved for testing which shows fatal fetal abnormalities.

Really, you can't see that during the time frame in which the Arizona law states?

What?? ADA does not apply to a fetus?
I find myself intrigued by your subvocal oscillations.
A singular development of cat communications
That obviates your basic hedonistic predilection,
For a rhythmic stroking of your fur to demonstrate affection.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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8/26/2012 2:13:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I mean, the title "pregnant 2 weeks before conception" make the law sound more ridiculous then it actually is. Its really about how one legally defines when conception occurs. When conception "actually" occurs is completely different and very difficult to find when it actually occurs.
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Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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8/26/2012 2:21:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/26/2012 2:10:16 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 8/26/2012 1:54:06 PM, Wnope wrote:
What's important about the bill isn't necessarily what it defines pregnancy as as much as the implications: it means abortions are not allowed before the time frame reserved for testing which shows fatal fetal abnormalities.

That is false.

Most abnormality tests take place before week 20 (which is when the law says that abortion is no longer allowed, except for medical issues).

The main test is the AFP test, which is usually taken between 16 and 18 weeks. Though they actually do some tests before then.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Aaronroy
Posts: 749
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8/26/2012 11:47:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/26/2012 11:10:58 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 8/26/2012 10:41:26 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
How does this work...?

there's no way to really "know" at what day conception occurs, so there are certain legal definitions to what is considered conception. The bill simply state its "calculated from the first day of the last menstrual period of the pregnant woman".

There is no way to know in the broad sense for all women; sperm can only travel so fast and each case is different for each women.

But what we DO know is that conception does not occur at 'from the first day of menstrual period of the pregnant woman'. That is an absurd, crude and reductionist calculation.
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