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Federal Funding Embryonic stem cell continues

slo1
Posts: 4,361
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8/27/2012 9:42:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I was not an alarmist when Bush first halted federal dollars for embryonic stem cell funding.

I however think it is absolutely ridiculousness to not use stem cells produced from discarded embryos used in fertility clinics.

While adult stem cells have been used much more in developing therapies, companies that focus on embryonic stem cells have demonstrated curing certain types of blindness and reversing lou gehrig disease. In fact one company, ticker ACTC, has a method of obtaining stem cell from embryo without destroying the embryo. It is rather ironic though that the embryo will just be tossed away as these are left overs from fertility clinics.

It is very interesting in that that if one classifies the beginning of life at fertilization, the only logical stance is to eliminate all activities that result in the destruction of the embryo and beyond.

There is a large contingency of people who would like to outlaw abortion, but will place a greater value on developed life over an undeveloped life by allowing certain exclusions such as the "rape" exclusion.

The masses in that particular group and pro choice will beat up the congress man who does not believe in the "rape or health of mother" exception, but nobody will take on the politicians who forbids to use discarded embroys to advance our understanding of growing health tissues and organs.
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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8/27/2012 10:34:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Meh. End federal funding of it, but encourage the private sector to do it, as private sector research is more effective and efficient.

If they don't use the research on the undifferentiated stem cell, which can grow into any type of other cell, it will just die later. What is worth more, a few stem cells or tens of thousands of human lives?
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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8/27/2012 10:56:06 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/27/2012 10:34:51 AM, Contra wrote:
Meh. End federal funding of it, but encourage the private sector to do it, as private sector research is more effective and efficient.

I never thought I disagree with you on using the private sector but I think that ultimately in science and research, the private sector is extremely weak. Various medicinal practices that require using embryos, including gene therapy, have extremely long term profitable abilities. It will be at least another few decades until gene therapy and other practices will become commercially available and it's just not reasonable for a private company to spend decades developing something at a loss.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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8/29/2012 5:37:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/27/2012 10:56:06 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/27/2012 10:34:51 AM, Contra wrote:
Meh. End federal funding of it, but encourage the private sector to do it, as private sector research is more effective and efficient.

I never thought I disagree with you on using the private sector but I think that ultimately in science and research, the private sector is extremely weak. Various medicinal practices that require using embryos, including gene therapy, have extremely long term profitable abilities. It will be at least another few decades until gene therapy and other practices will become commercially available and it's just not reasonable for a private company to spend decades developing something at a loss.

WTF ARE YOU TWO ONNNNN????
#UnbanTheMadman

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To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

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OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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8/29/2012 7:37:49 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/29/2012 5:37:11 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 8/27/2012 10:56:06 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/27/2012 10:34:51 AM, Contra wrote:
Meh. End federal funding of it, but encourage the private sector to do it, as private sector research is more effective and efficient.

I never thought I disagree with you on using the private sector but I think that ultimately in science and research, the private sector is extremely weak. Various medicinal practices that require using embryos, including gene therapy, have extremely long term profitable abilities. It will be at least another few decades until gene therapy and other practices will become commercially available and it's just not reasonable for a private company to spend decades developing something at a loss.

WTF ARE YOU TWO ONNNNN????

This....

Its like an different dimension....
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16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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8/29/2012 7:59:44 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/27/2012 10:56:06 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/27/2012 10:34:51 AM, Contra wrote:
Meh. End federal funding of it, but encourage the private sector to do it, as private sector research is more effective and efficient.

I never thought I disagree with you on using the private sector but I think that ultimately in science and research, the private sector is extremely weak. Various medicinal practices that require using embryos, including gene therapy, have extremely long term profitable abilities. It will be at least another few decades until gene therapy and other practices will become commercially available and it's just not reasonable for a private company to spend decades developing something at a loss.

o_O
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adontimasu
Posts: 93
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8/29/2012 3:57:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/27/2012 9:26:49 AM, slo1 wrote:
Court Dealt Setback in Effort to Halt Government Funding of Stem Cell Research that Destroys Human Embryos

http://www.opposingviews.com...

And? Good for the government? o_O
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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8/29/2012 7:24:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/27/2012 10:56:06 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/27/2012 10:34:51 AM, Contra wrote:
Meh. End federal funding of it, but encourage the private sector to do it, as private sector research is more effective and efficient.

I never thought I disagree with you on using the private sector but I think that ultimately in science and research, the private sector is extremely weak. Various medicinal practices that require using embryos, including gene therapy, have extremely long term profitable abilities. It will be at least another few decades until gene therapy and other practices will become commercially available and it's just not reasonable for a private company to spend decades developing something at a loss.

Good point. Though, it would be a good longterm investment opportunity. Almost all of the new scientific inventions are from the private sector, not many from the public sector. And, businesses have the incentive to work harder and more efficiently so that they can out-compete their competition, while public organizations have no real incentive to work harder, as the tax dollars will keep on coming in.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Aaronroy
Posts: 749
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8/29/2012 7:31:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/27/2012 10:56:06 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/27/2012 10:34:51 AM, Contra wrote:
Meh. End federal funding of it, but encourage the private sector to do it, as private sector research is more effective and efficient.

I never thought I disagree with you on using the private sector but I think that ultimately in science and research, the private sector is extremely weak. Various medicinal practices that require using embryos, including gene therapy, have extremely long term profitable abilities. It will be at least another few decades until gene therapy and other practices will become commercially available and it's just not reasonable for a private company to spend decades developing something at a loss.

+1

Groundbreaking technologies and medicines and their research fields thereof are optimized in the public sector. Private enterprises don't take risks funding projects unless there is profit available. The private sector still will have a role to play in development and research, but to end all federal funding of these researches? Completely stupid.

NASA paid $2 billion dollars to put a rover on Mars just for scientists to indulge in. The rationale between the private vs public argument in terms to the technology development/research is very much different than the same about mainstream economy theory.
turn down for h'what
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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8/29/2012 7:40:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/29/2012 7:31:27 PM, Aaronroy wrote:
At 8/27/2012 10:56:06 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/27/2012 10:34:51 AM, Contra wrote:
Meh. End federal funding of it, but encourage the private sector to do it, as private sector research is more effective and efficient.

I never thought I disagree with you on using the private sector but I think that ultimately in science and research, the private sector is extremely weak. Various medicinal practices that require using embryos, including gene therapy, have extremely long term profitable abilities. It will be at least another few decades until gene therapy and other practices will become commercially available and it's just not reasonable for a private company to spend decades developing something at a loss.

+1

Groundbreaking technologies and medicines and their research fields thereof are optimized in the public sector. Private enterprises don't take risks funding projects unless there is profit available. The private sector still will have a role to play in development and research, but to end all federal funding of these researches? Completely stupid.

NASA paid $2 billion dollars to put a rover on Mars just for scientists to indulge in. The rationale between the private vs public argument in terms to the technology development/research is very much different than the same about mainstream economy theory.

I'm fine with basic scientific research, but I think the private sector is better with dealing with advanced scientific research, because the profit motive will increase efficiency and efficacy. The best solution I believe would to incentivize the private sector to perform such groundbreaking research and development.

The private sector has already sent rockets and other objects into outer space.

The public sector is relying on funds (tax revenue), to do its missions which 1) violates the will of the people who don't want their money there, and 2) soaks up private capital which causes less wealth in the economy.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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8/29/2012 7:40:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/29/2012 5:37:11 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 8/27/2012 10:56:06 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/27/2012 10:34:51 AM, Contra wrote:
Meh. End federal funding of it, but encourage the private sector to do it, as private sector research is more effective and efficient.

I never thought I disagree with you on using the private sector but I think that ultimately in science and research, the private sector is extremely weak. Various medicinal practices that require using embryos, including gene therapy, have extremely long term profitable abilities. It will be at least another few decades until gene therapy and other practices will become commercially available and it's just not reasonable for a private company to spend decades developing something at a loss.

WTF ARE YOU TWO ONNNNN????

Lordknuckle is now a bleeding heart liberal. Contra is now a stone cold conservative. :p
Open borders debate:
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darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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8/29/2012 7:49:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
In terms of R&D public vs. private.

The private sector has huge incentives to make sure that the research doesn't get publicized since other firms can reap the profits. R&D requires information to flow freely so that new ideas can build off of others.

If we're are talking about well-developed marketable technology, then the private sector is better. However for technology that won't be marketable for years or so, there's no good incentive for a firm to engage in R&D since If they withhold information, then information isn't spreading to build off of another. If they spread the information, then they will gain no profits.

In other words, while competition works best in some sectors, for R&D cooperation is much more important than competition.
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Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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8/29/2012 8:26:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/29/2012 7:24:43 PM, Contra wrote:
At 8/27/2012 10:56:06 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/27/2012 10:34:51 AM, Contra wrote:
Meh. End federal funding of it, but encourage the private sector to do it, as private sector research is more effective and efficient.

I never thought I disagree with you on using the private sector but I think that ultimately in science and research, the private sector is extremely weak. Various medicinal practices that require using embryos, including gene therapy, have extremely long term profitable abilities. It will be at least another few decades until gene therapy and other practices will become commercially available and it's just not reasonable for a private company to spend decades developing something at a loss.

Good point. Though, it would be a good longterm investment opportunity. Almost all of the new scientific inventions are from the private sector, not many from the public sector. And, businesses have the incentive to work harder and more efficiently so that they can out-compete their competition, while public organizations have no real incentive to work harder, as the tax dollars will keep on coming in.

Yeah, the private sector is much better at carrying out the final task of getting the already established research or product out into the market much more effectively than would be ever possible in the public sector. But for actually developing the research and/or technology from scratch to a point in which it can be carried out by the private sector is much better done publicly.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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8/29/2012 8:26:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/29/2012 7:40:40 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 8/29/2012 5:37:11 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 8/27/2012 10:56:06 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/27/2012 10:34:51 AM, Contra wrote:
Meh. End federal funding of it, but encourage the private sector to do it, as private sector research is more effective and efficient.

I never thought I disagree with you on using the private sector but I think that ultimately in science and research, the private sector is extremely weak. Various medicinal practices that require using embryos, including gene therapy, have extremely long term profitable abilities. It will be at least another few decades until gene therapy and other practices will become commercially available and it's just not reasonable for a private company to spend decades developing something at a loss.

WTF ARE YOU TWO ONNNNN????

Lordknuckle is now a bleeding heart liberal. Contra is now a stone cold conservative. :p

Lol no. I'm still right wing libertarian.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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8/29/2012 8:33:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/29/2012 8:26:58 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/29/2012 7:40:40 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 8/29/2012 5:37:11 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 8/27/2012 10:56:06 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/27/2012 10:34:51 AM, Contra wrote:
Meh. End federal funding of it, but encourage the private sector to do it, as private sector research is more effective and efficient.

I never thought I disagree with you on using the private sector but I think that ultimately in science and research, the private sector is extremely weak. Various medicinal practices that require using embryos, including gene therapy, have extremely long term profitable abilities. It will be at least another few decades until gene therapy and other practices will become commercially available and it's just not reasonable for a private company to spend decades developing something at a loss.

WTF ARE YOU TWO ONNNNN????

Lordknuckle is now a bleeding heart liberal. Contra is now a stone cold conservative. :p

Lol no. I'm still right wing libertarian.

didn't you say you were a fan of the green party candidate?
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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8/29/2012 8:34:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/29/2012 8:33:52 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 8/29/2012 8:26:58 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/29/2012 7:40:40 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 8/29/2012 5:37:11 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 8/27/2012 10:56:06 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/27/2012 10:34:51 AM, Contra wrote:
Meh. End federal funding of it, but encourage the private sector to do it, as private sector research is more effective and efficient.

I never thought I disagree with you on using the private sector but I think that ultimately in science and research, the private sector is extremely weak. Various medicinal practices that require using embryos, including gene therapy, have extremely long term profitable abilities. It will be at least another few decades until gene therapy and other practices will become commercially available and it's just not reasonable for a private company to spend decades developing something at a loss.

WTF ARE YOU TWO ONNNNN????

Lordknuckle is now a bleeding heart liberal. Contra is now a stone cold conservative. :p

Lol no. I'm still right wing libertarian.

didn't you say you were a fan of the green party candidate?

Their "social justice" unnerves me, so not anymore.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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8/29/2012 8:35:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/29/2012 8:34:36 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/29/2012 8:33:52 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 8/29/2012 8:26:58 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/29/2012 7:40:40 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 8/29/2012 5:37:11 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 8/27/2012 10:56:06 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/27/2012 10:34:51 AM, Contra wrote:
Meh. End federal funding of it, but encourage the private sector to do it, as private sector research is more effective and efficient.

I never thought I disagree with you on using the private sector but I think that ultimately in science and research, the private sector is extremely weak. Various medicinal practices that require using embryos, including gene therapy, have extremely long term profitable abilities. It will be at least another few decades until gene therapy and other practices will become commercially available and it's just not reasonable for a private company to spend decades developing something at a loss.

WTF ARE YOU TWO ONNNNN????

Lordknuckle is now a bleeding heart liberal. Contra is now a stone cold conservative. :p

Lol no. I'm still right wing libertarian.

didn't you say you were a fan of the green party candidate?

Their "social justice" unnerves me, so not anymore.

Actually "economic justice" is a much fairer term in regards to my context, which they still advocate.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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8/29/2012 8:38:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/29/2012 8:35:13 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/29/2012 8:34:36 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/29/2012 8:33:52 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 8/29/2012 8:26:58 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/29/2012 7:40:40 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 8/29/2012 5:37:11 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 8/27/2012 10:56:06 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/27/2012 10:34:51 AM, Contra wrote:
Meh. End federal funding of it, but encourage the private sector to do it, as private sector research is more effective and efficient.

I never thought I disagree with you on using the private sector but I think that ultimately in science and research, the private sector is extremely weak. Various medicinal practices that require using embryos, including gene therapy, have extremely long term profitable abilities. It will be at least another few decades until gene therapy and other practices will become commercially available and it's just not reasonable for a private company to spend decades developing something at a loss.

WTF ARE YOU TWO ONNNNN????

Lordknuckle is now a bleeding heart liberal. Contra is now a stone cold conservative. :p

Lol no. I'm still right wing libertarian.

didn't you say you were a fan of the green party candidate?

Their "social justice" unnerves me, so not anymore.

Actually "economic justice" is a much fairer term in regards to my context, which they still advocate.

fair enough. If you actually were green party, I'd have to say you were left-libertarain

I'm for a progressive tax system and welfare but still lean right-libertarian.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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8/29/2012 8:47:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/29/2012 8:38:34 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 8/29/2012 8:35:13 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/29/2012 8:34:36 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/29/2012 8:33:52 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 8/29/2012 8:26:58 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/29/2012 7:40:40 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 8/29/2012 5:37:11 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 8/27/2012 10:56:06 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/27/2012 10:34:51 AM, Contra wrote:
Meh. End federal funding of it, but encourage the private sector to do it, as private sector research is more effective and efficient.

I never thought I disagree with you on using the private sector but I think that ultimately in science and research, the private sector is extremely weak. Various medicinal practices that require using embryos, including gene therapy, have extremely long term profitable abilities. It will be at least another few decades until gene therapy and other practices will become commercially available and it's just not reasonable for a private company to spend decades developing something at a loss.

WTF ARE YOU TWO ONNNNN????

Lordknuckle is now a bleeding heart liberal. Contra is now a stone cold conservative. :p

Lol no. I'm still right wing libertarian.

didn't you say you were a fan of the green party candidate?

Their "social justice" unnerves me, so not anymore.

Actually "economic justice" is a much fairer term in regards to my context, which they still advocate.

fair enough. If you actually were green party, I'd have to say you were left-libertarain

I'm for a progressive tax system and welfare but still lean right-libertarian.

I think a two stage flat tax would be optimal, of rates of about 10% and 25%. Because, if you tax the highest income earners 45%, not even including the collateral economic damage, many high income earners will store their wealth in tax shelters.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan