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Todd Akin and 'Legitimate Rape'

chrumbelievable
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8/28/2012 2:06:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
As most of you know, Republican Senator hopeful Todd Akin recently went on record to insist that women's bodies "shut down" in cases of "legitimate rape." While he has mostly garnered negative backlash, several pro-life advocates have stepped up to show their support. I compiled the most disturbing and ignorant of these quotes here (http://juggle-blog.juggle-content.com...).

But I'm curious how many others out there believe this myth of rape and infertility. Do you? Moreover, do you think abortion be wrong in any and all cases? Or should it be up to women to decide what to do with their bodies?
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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8/28/2012 2:27:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 2:06:53 PM, chrumbelievable wrote:
As most of you know, Republican Senator hopeful Todd Akin recently went on record to insist that women's bodies "shut down" in cases of "legitimate rape." While he has mostly garnered negative backlash, several pro-life advocates have stepped up to show their support. I compiled the most disturbing and ignorant of these quotes here (http://juggle-blog.juggle-content.com...).

But I'm curious how many others out there believe this myth of rape and infertility. Do you? Moreover, do you think abortion be wrong in any and all cases?

Unless it is impossible for both the woman and the child to survive, I believe abortion to be wrong.

Or should it be up to women to decide what to do with their bodies?
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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8/28/2012 2:47:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
If you believe that the fetus is a human then no matter the method of conception, you should advocate for no abortion. Rape doesn't override the right to life.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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8/28/2012 2:51:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
He apparently has also recently stated that breast milk "cures homosexuality." LOL!

This guy is too much. Ten bucks he works for The Onion, cuz who could truly believe such outlandish things? But I digress, as we all know a f Todd Akin's in our lives.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
chrumbelievable
Posts: 210
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8/28/2012 2:53:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 2:47:36 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
If you believe that the fetus is a human then no matter the method of conception, you should advocate for no abortion. Rape doesn't override the right to life.

What about the life of the mother?
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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8/28/2012 2:55:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 2:06:53 PM, chrumbelievable wrote:
As most of you know, Republican Senator hopeful Todd Akin recently went on record to insist that women's bodies "shut down" in cases of "legitimate rape." While he has mostly garnered negative backlash, several pro-life advocates have stepped up to show their support. I compiled the most disturbing and ignorant of these quotes here (http://juggle-blog.juggle-content.com...).

But I'm curious how many others out there believe this myth of rape and infertility. Do you? Moreover, do you think abortion be wrong in any and all cases? Or should it be up to women to decide what to do with their bodies?

Other than callous or insensitive, I don't see what the big deal is. I guess he shouldn't have used the word legitimate but is that to say that there aren't any illegitimate rapes? That people don't get falsely accused of rape? This is nonsense, of course they do.

One must also ask: what percentage of rape victims end up pregnant? The figures vary from less than 1% to 5%; so let's say 2.95%. Which the same as the percent of "false accusations of rape" which is about 3%.

The point is that pregnancy resulting from rape is BY FAR the exception and not the rule. Also, if abortion were to be banned EXCEPT for cases of rape then the rate of false accusations of rape would indeed skyrocket.

Morally, abortion is wrong in ALL cases. This is the ONLY truly consistent view.
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
imabench
Posts: 21,230
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8/28/2012 3:07:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I am for any kind of abortion that is not late term abortion
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tBoonePickens
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8/28/2012 3:08:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 2:47:36 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
If you believe that the fetus is a human then no matter the method of conception, you should advocate for no abortion. Rape doesn't override the right to life.
Well as far as I know, humans have human fetuses, rats have rat fetuses, apes have ape fetuses, etc.
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
Agent_Orange
Posts: 2,252
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8/28/2012 3:13:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Personally I don't care if you get an abortion or not. I'm already born, I made it! Not but seriously, I think the issue should be up to the parents.
#BlackLivesMatter
imabench
Posts: 21,230
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8/28/2012 3:16:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
There should be a national convention where all the women (and women only) go to decide once and for all what they feel is right about abortion. Hell its a woman's issue, and women fix everything way better then a dude can, let them sort it out and give their opinion.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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8/28/2012 3:44:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 2:53:41 PM, chrumbelievable wrote:
At 8/28/2012 2:47:36 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
If you believe that the fetus is a human then no matter the method of conception, you should advocate for no abortion. Rape doesn't override the right to life.

What about the life of the mother?

You weren't discussing the life of the mother; you were discussing whether abortion is permissible with rape conception.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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8/28/2012 4:10:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I've discussed in a previous thread why it is quite logical and possible that a women could not get pregnant, or at least have difficulty having a child from legitimate rape. Some monkeys are able to spontaneously abort their child when an alpha male comes in. So its a plausible evolutionary mechanism that women could have a mechanism to not have a child when raped.
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NixonianVolkswagen
Posts: 481
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8/28/2012 4:14:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 4:10:53 PM, darkkermit wrote:
I've discussed in a previous thread why it is quite logical and possible that a women could not get pregnant, or at least have difficulty having a child from legitimate rape. Some monkeys are able to spontaneously abort their child when an alpha male comes in. So its a plausible evolutionary mechanism that women could have a mechanism to not have a child when raped.

Possible or probable?
"There is an almost universal tendency, perhaps an inborn tendency, to suspect the good faith of a man who holds opinions that differ from our own opinions."

- Karl "Spartacus" Popper
FREEDO
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8/28/2012 4:15:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 4:10:53 PM, darkkermit wrote:
I've discussed in a previous thread why it is quite logical and possible that a women could not get pregnant, or at least have difficulty having a child from legitimate rape. Some monkeys are able to spontaneously abort their child when an alpha male comes in. So its a plausible evolutionary mechanism that women could have a mechanism to not have a child when raped.

Which stands up better, the plausibility of the idea which has not been scientifically verified and cannot be scientifically verified due to "legitimate" being arbitrary, or the testimony of thousands of women?

It's laughable.
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darkkermit
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8/28/2012 4:16:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 4:14:05 PM, NixonianVolkswagen wrote:
At 8/28/2012 4:10:53 PM, darkkermit wrote:
I've discussed in a previous thread why it is quite logical and possible that a women could not get pregnant, or at least have difficulty having a child from legitimate rape. Some monkeys are able to spontaneously abort their child when an alpha male comes in. So its a plausible evolutionary mechanism that women could have a mechanism to not have a child when raped.

Possible or probable?

I don't want to say probable, because there haven't really been any good studies confirming it. However, I wouldn't say possible, as in a very unlikely occurance but still possible. It's more like 50/50 to me.
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darkkermit
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8/28/2012 4:17:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 4:15:39 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 8/28/2012 4:10:53 PM, darkkermit wrote:
I've discussed in a previous thread why it is quite logical and possible that a women could not get pregnant, or at least have difficulty having a child from legitimate rape. Some monkeys are able to spontaneously abort their child when an alpha male comes in. So its a plausible evolutionary mechanism that women could have a mechanism to not have a child when raped.

Which stands up better, the plausibility of the idea which has not been scientifically verified and cannot be scientifically verified due to "legitimate" being arbitrary, or the testimony of thousands of women?

It's laughable.

Didn't realize the testimony of thousands of women was considered scientific. Aliens sightings have thousands of testimony.

To be fair, I don't think its impossible for a women to get pregnant from illeglitame rape, just less likely to occur.
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royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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8/28/2012 4:18:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 4:10:53 PM, darkkermit wrote:
I've discussed in a previous thread why it is quite logical and possible that a women could not get pregnant, or at least have difficulty having a child from legitimate rape. Some monkeys are able to spontaneously abort their child when an alpha male comes in. So its a plausible evolutionary mechanism that women could have a mechanism to not have a child when raped.

And I refuted it without a response from you. Not only is it empirically false, but the stress that you discussed only triggers problems in reproductive capacity in later cycles. It does not interfere with her reproductive capacities at the time of the rape.
royalpaladin
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8/28/2012 4:19:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 4:17:33 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 8/28/2012 4:15:39 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 8/28/2012 4:10:53 PM, darkkermit wrote:
I've discussed in a previous thread why it is quite logical and possible that a women could not get pregnant, or at least have difficulty having a child from legitimate rape. Some monkeys are able to spontaneously abort their child when an alpha male comes in. So its a plausible evolutionary mechanism that women could have a mechanism to not have a child when raped.

Which stands up better, the plausibility of the idea which has not been scientifically verified and cannot be scientifically verified due to "legitimate" being arbitrary, or the testimony of thousands of women?

It's laughable.

Didn't realize the testimony of thousands of women was considered scientific. Aliens sightings have thousands of testimony.

To be fair, I don't think its impossible for a women to get pregnant from illeglitame rape, just less likely to occur.

LOL, didn't you find a study that explicitly said it was more likely to occur and post it in the other thread. Haha, you are so dishonest.
darkkermit
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8/28/2012 4:20:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 4:18:49 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 8/28/2012 4:10:53 PM, darkkermit wrote:
I've discussed in a previous thread why it is quite logical and possible that a women could not get pregnant, or at least have difficulty having a child from legitimate rape. Some monkeys are able to spontaneously abort their child when an alpha male comes in. So its a plausible evolutionary mechanism that women could have a mechanism to not have a child when raped.

And I refuted it without a response from you. Not only is it empirically false, but the stress that you discussed only triggers problems in reproductive capacity in later cycles. It does not interfere with her reproductive capacities at the time of the rape.

Its empirically conflicted, which is why I use the word possible, not highly likely.
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FREEDO
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8/28/2012 4:21:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 4:17:33 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 8/28/2012 4:15:39 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 8/28/2012 4:10:53 PM, darkkermit wrote:
I've discussed in a previous thread why it is quite logical and possible that a women could not get pregnant, or at least have difficulty having a child from legitimate rape. Some monkeys are able to spontaneously abort their child when an alpha male comes in. So its a plausible evolutionary mechanism that women could have a mechanism to not have a child when raped.

Which stands up better, the plausibility of the idea which has not been scientifically verified and cannot be scientifically verified due to "legitimate" being arbitrary, or the testimony of thousands of women?

It's laughable.

Didn't realize the testimony of thousands of women was considered scientific. Aliens sightings have thousands of testimony.

To be fair, I don't think its impossible for a women to get pregnant from illeglitame rape, just less likely to occur.

Alien sightings.

Rape.

Alien sightings.

Rape.

Alien sightings.

Rape.

Okeydokey.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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8/28/2012 4:23:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 4:20:23 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 8/28/2012 4:18:49 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 8/28/2012 4:10:53 PM, darkkermit wrote:
I've discussed in a previous thread why it is quite logical and possible that a women could not get pregnant, or at least have difficulty having a child from legitimate rape. Some monkeys are able to spontaneously abort their child when an alpha male comes in. So its a plausible evolutionary mechanism that women could have a mechanism to not have a child when raped.

And I refuted it without a response from you. Not only is it empirically false, but the stress that you discussed only triggers problems in reproductive capacity in later cycles. It does not interfere with her reproductive capacities at the time of the rape.

Its empirically conflicted, which is why I use the word possible, not highly likely.

It's not empirically conflicted. All of the data from objective, non fundamentalist sources point one way. The reason that a lot of the pregnancies do not come to light is that part of the standard treatment for rapes is a dose of morning-after-style contraceptives.
UnStupendousMan
Posts: 3,475
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8/28/2012 4:23:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 4:10:53 PM, darkkermit wrote:
I've discussed in a previous thread why it is quite logical and possible that a women could not get pregnant, or at least have difficulty having a child from legitimate rape. Some monkeys are able to spontaneously abort their child when an alpha male comes in. So its a plausible evolutionary mechanism that women could have a mechanism to not have a child when raped.

Some monkeys =/= humans, DK.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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8/28/2012 4:24:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
50% of women will admit to sexually fantasies about being raped. So yea, its possible that some women actually enjoy being rape. However, there's obvious incentives for the women not to publicly disclose this information.
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royalpaladin
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8/28/2012 4:25:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 4:24:11 PM, darkkermit wrote:
50% of women will admit to sexually fantasies about being raped. So yea, its possible that some women actually enjoy being rape. However, there's obvious incentives for the women not to publicly disclose this information.

Who cares? How does this in any way justify rape? Rape is not wrong because of its consequences; rape is wrong because it is an immoral action in itself. LOL, I might have a fantasy about being murdered (yes, I have thought about this in the past) but that doesn't make it ok to murder me.
darkkermit
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8/28/2012 4:29:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 4:25:25 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 8/28/2012 4:24:11 PM, darkkermit wrote:
50% of women will admit to sexually fantasies about being raped. So yea, its possible that some women actually enjoy being rape. However, there's obvious incentives for the women not to publicly disclose this information.

Who cares? How does this in any way justify rape?

It doesn't justify it. I'm just stating there are incentives for women to state they didn't like being raped.

Rape is not wrong because of its consequences; rape is wrong because it is an immoral action in itself. LOL, I might have a fantasy about being murdered (yes, I have thought about this in the past) but that doesn't make it ok to murder me.

Never said anything about justifying rape. Just saying that its possible that women who are raped, enjoy the process, and then get pregnant.
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chrumbelievable
Posts: 210
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8/28/2012 4:31:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 4:24:11 PM, darkkermit wrote:
50% of women will admit to sexually fantasies about being raped. So yea, its possible that some women actually enjoy being rape. However, there's obvious incentives for the women not to publicly disclose this information.

I just threw up in my mouth. People sicken me. I knew I would regret this thread.