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Islam is not the problem in the Middle East

TheWaywardSon
Posts: 58
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8/29/2012 1:12:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Thought about putting this in religion but I felt it fit better here.

I'm tired of hearing people bash on Islam and how it breeds terrorists. Islam is a peaceful, honorable religion and is not the cause of the problems we face today in the middle East. It is distorted in a way for terrorists to corrupt the minds of uneducated people in order to expel their hatred of the U.S. and Europe. It is because of our own government's actions, and the actions taken by the allied nations after World War 1 in splitting up the Ottoman Empire, and subsequently screwing around with the middle east such as with the Coup in Iran of 1953 that there is such a hatred for the United states in the middle East.

Your opinions would be appreciated

http://listverse.com...
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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8/29/2012 1:18:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
It's obvious to anyone who objectively studies middle eastern politics that Zionism is the root of nearly all it's conflict.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
TheWaywardSon
Posts: 58
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8/29/2012 1:32:49 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/29/2012 1:18:03 AM, FREEDO wrote:
It's obvious to anyone who objectively studies middle eastern politics that Zionism is the root of nearly all it's conflict.

I'd be really interested in what you have to say about that. I agree that the Zionist movement has cause an immense amount of turmoil, espeically with the establishment of Israel. But nearly all the conflict? That is bold.
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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8/30/2012 5:24:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/29/2012 1:18:03 AM, FREEDO wrote:
It's obvious to anyone who objectively studies middle eastern politics that Zionism is the root of nearly all it's conflict.

Correct, they own the Corporation of London, almost every news program. The world is learning and hearing what they want you too, unless you refuse to listen. Muslims are being falsely accused and Im Christian and I see that.
TheAsylum
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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8/30/2012 7:48:04 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/30/2012 7:26:15 AM, Ron-Paul wrote:
Amen to all this!

We could argue all day long about our faiths but Mulims being woldwide terriorist is nonsense. They are no more terriorist than Americans.
TheAsylum
Frederick53
Posts: 1,037
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8/30/2012 9:03:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/29/2012 1:12:35 AM, TheWaywardSon wrote:
Thought about putting this in religion but I felt it fit better here.

I'm tired of hearing people bash on Islam and how it breeds terrorists. Islam is a peaceful, honorable religion and is not the cause of the problems we face today in the middle East. It is distorted in a way for terrorists to corrupt the minds of uneducated people in order to expel their hatred of the U.S. and Europe. It is because of our own government's actions, and the actions taken by the allied nations after World War 1 in splitting up the Ottoman Empire, and subsequently screwing around with the middle east such as with the Coup in Iran of 1953 that there is such a hatred for the United states in the middle East.

Your opinions would be appreciated

http://listverse.com...

I'll just add to your list-

The US and Israel subsequently training the Shah's secret police force SAVAK which arrested, tortured, and executed thousands of people.

The US rigging the elections in Lebanon in 1957 so that a Christian would win over a Muslim, causing a civil war.

The US training and arming the Mujaheddin to fight the Soviet Union.

The US funding and arming Saddam Hussein to fight Iran, and helping him develop illegal chemical weapons (WMDs) to use in a genocide against the Kurdish minority in Iraq.

The US intervening in the Persian Gulf War to protect Kuwait's oil and wealth and then abandoning the Iraqi people.

The indiscriminant bombing of civilians during the Persian Gulf War, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and now all over the Middle East.

These actions are the fuel that the engine of terrorism requires in order to run.
In 1975, the Second Vietnam War began -1Historygenius

Like no wonder that indian dude rejected you.- Darkkermit to royalpaladin

Social Darwinism is a justification- 1Historygenius

Equal opportunity exists, so there is no problem- EvanK
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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8/30/2012 9:19:31 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/30/2012 7:26:15 AM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 8/30/2012 5:24:33 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 8/29/2012 1:18:03 AM, FREEDO wrote:
It's obvious to anyone who objectively studies middle eastern politics that Zionism is the root of nearly all it's conflict.

Correct, they own the Corporation of London, almost every news program. The world is learning and hearing what they want you too, unless you refuse to listen. Muslims are being falsely accused and Im Christian and I see that.
Amen to all this!

What the Hell???? That is some major antisemitic bias right there. Anyone who studies history can tell you that what FREEDO claimed is pure BS. The Arabs have been the aggressors in every Arab-Israeli conflict, and not only that but the conflict does not start with, nor is it isolated to Israeli. Take for example the Indian-Pakistani conflict. Pakistan was created our of India in order to allow for a separate state for Muslims and the other religions of India (such as Hinduism, and Buddhism). The Muslims were not happy with Pakistan and attempted to claim more of India. Islamic Nationalists are not contempt with what they have; they want everyone to be under Islamic rule. Jewish Nationalists (Zionists) on the other hand, are happy with Israel and they don't want to expand Jewish influence beyond Isreal's current boarders (the legally established boarders, which was established through treaty with their neighbors).
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Frederick53
Posts: 1,037
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8/30/2012 9:25:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/30/2012 9:19:31 AM, DanT wrote:
At 8/30/2012 7:26:15 AM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 8/30/2012 5:24:33 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 8/29/2012 1:18:03 AM, FREEDO wrote:
It's obvious to anyone who objectively studies middle eastern politics that Zionism is the root of nearly all it's conflict.

Correct, they own the Corporation of London, almost every news program. The world is learning and hearing what they want you too, unless you refuse to listen. Muslims are being falsely accused and Im Christian and I see that.
Amen to all this!

What the Hell???? That is some major antisemitic bias right there. Anyone who studies history can tell you that what FREEDO claimed is pure BS. The Arabs have been the aggressors in every Arab-Israeli conflict, and not only that but the conflict does not start with, nor is it isolated to Israeli. Take for example the Indian-Pakistani conflict. Pakistan was created our of India in order to allow for a separate state for Muslims and the other religions of India (such as Hinduism, and Buddhism). The Muslims were not happy with Pakistan and attempted to claim more of India. Islamic Nationalists are not contempt with what they have; they want everyone to be under Islamic rule. Jewish Nationalists (Zionists) on the other hand, are happy with Israel and they don't want to expand Jewish influence beyond Isreal's current boarders (the legally established boarders, which was established through treaty with their neighbors).

Israel is not as innocent as you make them out to be, however you're correct that Zionism is not the main source of conflict in the Middle East. The US's meddling there has had a lot less to do with Israel and more to do with advancing our own economic interests.
In 1975, the Second Vietnam War began -1Historygenius

Like no wonder that indian dude rejected you.- Darkkermit to royalpaladin

Social Darwinism is a justification- 1Historygenius

Equal opportunity exists, so there is no problem- EvanK
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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8/30/2012 9:53:55 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Islam is not a religion of peace. In fact, it promotes intense violence. However, the reason that we are locked in this hegemony in the Middle East is because of our own invasion.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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8/30/2012 10:15:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/30/2012 9:19:31 AM, DanT wrote:
At 8/30/2012 7:26:15 AM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 8/30/2012 5:24:33 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 8/29/2012 1:18:03 AM, FREEDO wrote:
It's obvious to anyone who objectively studies middle eastern politics that Zionism is the root of nearly all it's conflict.

Correct, they own the Corporation of London, almost every news program. The world is learning and hearing what they want you too, unless you refuse to listen. Muslims are being falsely accused and Im Christian and I see that.
Amen to all this!

What the Hell???? That is some major antisemitic bias right there. Anyone who studies history can tell you that what FREEDO claimed is pure BS. The Arabs have been the aggressors in every Arab-Israeli conflict, and not only that but the conflict does not start with, nor is it isolated to Israeli. Take for example the Indian-Pakistani conflict. Pakistan was created our of India in order to allow for a separate state for Muslims and the other religions of India (such as Hinduism, and Buddhism). The Muslims were not happy with Pakistan and attempted to claim more of India. Islamic Nationalists are not contempt with what they have; they want everyone to be under Islamic rule. Jewish Nationalists (Zionists) on the other hand, are happy with Israel and they don't want to expand Jewish influence beyond Isreal's current boarders (the legally established boarders, which was established through treaty with their neighbors).

DanT, Zionist, like I've said own just about everything anyway. When you read and here most news it is the Zionist who are owning that news you here, look it up please. Every major news station owned by a Zionist Jew.
TheAsylum
Clash
Posts: 220
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8/30/2012 11:10:21 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/29/2012 1:12:35 AM, TheWaywardSon wrote:
Thought about putting this in religion but I felt it fit better here.

I'm tired of hearing people bash on Islam and how it breeds terrorists. Islam is a peaceful, honorable religion and is not the cause of the problems we face today in the middle East. It is distorted in a way for terrorists to corrupt the minds of uneducated people in order to expel their hatred of the U.S. and Europe. It is because of our own government's actions, and the actions taken by the allied nations after World War 1 in splitting up the Ottoman Empire, and subsequently screwing around with the middle east such as with the Coup in Iran of 1953 that there is such a hatred for the United states in the middle East. :

+1. In fact, two thirds of "Muslim suicide bombers" have been from countries where US forces have or are still maintaining military forces [http://www.hamzatzortzis.com...].

At 8/30/2012 9:53:55 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
Islam is not a religion of peace. In fact, it promotes intense violence. However, the reason that we are locked in this hegemony in the Middle East is because of our own invasion.

It is true that Islam promotes violence. However, it promotes violence only for self-defense or to stop oppression. Thus, Islam's promotion of violence is completely justified.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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8/30/2012 12:29:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Agreed 100%. I'd say that the western presence in the middle east definitely plays a role in this. However, so does wahabism, which as some people here may know is a completely twisted and distorted version of Islam.

As for the person here who says Islam promotes violence, yes it does...in self-defense. People who practice pacifism in a time of war essentially get wiped out.
InsertNameHere
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8/30/2012 1:04:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/30/2012 12:54:25 PM, Mirza wrote:
Islam is not the problem, but we Muslims are not free from blames. It's childish to put blame on non-Muslims only.

I have seen people do that though, blame all the wrong done by muslims on America and Israel.
Ron-Paul
Posts: 2,557
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8/30/2012 1:44:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/30/2012 9:53:55 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
Islam is not a religion of peace. In fact, it promotes intense violence. However, the reason that we are locked in this hegemony in the Middle East is because of our own invasion.

I'm getting tired of your false assertions about Islam.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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8/30/2012 1:53:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/30/2012 1:44:28 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 8/30/2012 9:53:55 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
Islam is not a religion of peace. In fact, it promotes intense violence. However, the reason that we are locked in this hegemony in the Middle East is because of our own invasion.

I'm getting tired of your false assertions about Islam.

You've never read the Koran, have you?
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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8/30/2012 1:58:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/30/2012 1:53:06 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
You've never read the Koran, have you?


Lack of time means no challenge. I assume you wouldn't want to do a 30-60 min per round debate anytime soon.

You've not read the Quran properly either, so flush your own toilet first Ma'am.
TheWaywardSon
Posts: 58
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8/30/2012 2:20:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
For those of you who think that Islam is a violent religion that in any way backs up the Taliban and other terrorist organizations, these are the ten rules of warfare stated in the Qur'an.

1.Do not commit treachery
2.Do not deviate from the right path
3.Do not mutilate dead bodies
4.Do not kill children
5.Do not kill women
6.Do not kill aged men
7.Do not harm or burn trees
8.Do not destroy buildings
9.Do not destroy an enemy's flock, unless you use it for your food
10.When you pass people who have devoted their lives to monastic services leave them alone

Any of that sound contradictory to 9/11 to you guys? If you don't believe it look it up. You'll find many instances of Muslim armies throughout history being a hell of a lot more civilized than European armies. Saladin in the crusades is a great example.
InsertNameHere
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8/30/2012 2:28:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/30/2012 2:20:53 PM, TheWaywardSon wrote:

Any of that sound contradictory to 9/11 to you guys? If you don't believe it look it up. You'll find many instances of Muslim armies throughout history being a hell of a lot more civilized than European armies. Saladin in the crusades is a great example.

*inb4 somebody quotes verses out of context*
TheWaywardSon
Posts: 58
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8/30/2012 2:33:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/30/2012 2:28:44 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/30/2012 2:20:53 PM, TheWaywardSon wrote:

Any of that sound contradictory to 9/11 to you guys? If you don't believe it look it up. You'll find many instances of Muslim armies throughout history being a hell of a lot more civilized than European armies. Saladin in the crusades is a great example.

*inb4 somebody quotes verses out of context*

How exactly is that out of context?
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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8/30/2012 2:34:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/30/2012 2:33:15 PM, TheWaywardSon wrote:
At 8/30/2012 2:28:44 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/30/2012 2:20:53 PM, TheWaywardSon wrote:

Any of that sound contradictory to 9/11 to you guys? If you don't believe it look it up. You'll find many instances of Muslim armies throughout history being a hell of a lot more civilized than European armies. Saladin in the crusades is a great example.

*inb4 somebody quotes verses out of context*

How exactly is that out of context?

No, not anything you posted. I was just saying that somebody wll come here and post out of context verses to say Islam allows the killing of innocent people.
TheWaywardSon
Posts: 58
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8/30/2012 2:38:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/30/2012 2:34:56 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/30/2012 2:33:15 PM, TheWaywardSon wrote:
At 8/30/2012 2:28:44 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/30/2012 2:20:53 PM, TheWaywardSon wrote:

Any of that sound contradictory to 9/11 to you guys? If you don't believe it look it up. You'll find many instances of Muslim armies throughout history being a hell of a lot more civilized than European armies. Saladin in the crusades is a great example.

*inb4 somebody quotes verses out of context*

How exactly is that out of context?

No, not anything you posted. I was just saying that somebody wll come here and post out of context verses to say Islam allows the killing of innocent people.

Oh ok, I gotcha, thanks.
twocupcakes
Posts: 2,748
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8/30/2012 2:57:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Islam is definitely a religion that promotes violence and sexism. However, it also promotes peace. It contradicts itself in this sense, like the Bible. I do not think Islam is any worse than Christianity in terms of evil. Also, I do not think Islam is the problem with the middle east. But, Islam certainly is not helping the middle east.
twocupcakes
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8/30/2012 3:06:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago

*inb4 somebody quotes verses out of context*

It is pretty clear that the punishment for apostasy in Islam is death.

Bukhari (83:37) - "Allah's Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal sexual intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle and deserted Islam and became an apostate."

Bukhari (52:260) - "...The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

Reliance of the Traveller (Islamic Law) o8.1 - "When a person who has reached puberty and is sane voluntarily apostatizes from Islam, he deserves to be killed."

Qur'an (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them"
InsertNameHere
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8/30/2012 3:10:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/30/2012 3:06:45 PM, twocupcakes wrote:

*inb4 somebody quotes verses out of context*

It is pretty clear that the punishment for apostasy in Islam is death.

Bukhari (83:37) - "Allah's Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal sexual intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle and deserted Islam and became an apostate."

Bukhari (52:260) - "...The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

Reliance of the Traveller (Islamic Law) o8.1 - "When a person who has reached puberty and is sane voluntarily apostatizes from Islam, he deserves to be killed."

Qur'an (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them"

The Bukhari stuff you posted is completely irrelevant to me. As for the verse you posted it's not even talking about apostates. It's talking about people who turn around and betray muslims when there's treaties.
twocupcakes
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8/30/2012 3:14:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago

The Bukhari stuff you posted is completely irrelevant to me. As for the verse you posted it's not even talking about apostates. It's talking about people who turn around and betray muslims when there's treaties.

Okay, thank you for letting me know. Why is the Bukhari Hadith irrelevant to you?
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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8/30/2012 3:16:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/30/2012 3:14:30 PM, twocupcakes wrote:

The Bukhari stuff you posted is completely irrelevant to me. As for the verse you posted it's not even talking about apostates. It's talking about people who turn around and betray muslims when there's treaties.

Okay, thank you for letting me know. Why is the Bukhari Hadith irrelevant to you?

I'm not a sunni.
InsertNameHere
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8/30/2012 3:21:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/30/2012 3:19:35 PM, twocupcakes wrote:

I'm not a sunni.

Okay, however you will concede that Sunni Islam is a religion of violence, right?

I don't even attempt to deny that sunni islam is violent. :)