Total Posts:11|Showing Posts:1-11
Jump to topic:

Separation Of Powers Has Failed, Epically.

jat93
Posts: 1,440
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/29/2012 9:33:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Separation of powers - but powers only to be separated within the federal government. What a scam. And it clearly failed at restraining government from tyranny, violating the constitution, and everything that the system was supposed to prevent. Overall, an epic fail on behalf of the framers of the Constitution.

And that kind of undermines most of the argument for the Constitution, in my opinion. Its authors generally viewed government as a necessary evil that has a natural tendency to grow and progress to tyrannical rule. They thought separation of powers was a foolproof way of preventing that. But it clearly hasn't worked.

The Supreme Court has consistently failed to check tyrannical/unconstitutional legislation. Japanese internment, the Dred Scott decision, the War on Drugs, the Patriot Act... What a joke. And nobody should expect otherwise. Supreme court justices are nominated by the President and confirmed by Congress! Why would any politician appoint a judge who wanted to restrain government growth?

The President can go to war without congressional approval, as has been done consistently for half a century. He can pass executive freaking orders.

The failure of the Founding Fathers (in this case meaning framers of the Constitution) to foresee that separation of powers would eventually deteriorate into near meaninglessness and fail to check government tyranny is, in my opinion, their most grave.
imabench
Posts: 21,230
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/29/2012 11:04:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/29/2012 9:33:09 PM, jat93 wrote:
Separation of powers - but powers only to be separated within the federal government. What a scam. And it clearly failed at restraining government from tyranny, violating the constitution, and everything that the system was supposed to prevent. Overall, an epic fail on behalf of the framers of the Constitution.

Getting a whole lot of opinion over here and not any hard evidence.....

And that kind of undermines most of the argument for the Constitution, in my opinion. Its authors generally viewed government as a necessary evil that has a natural tendency to grow and progress to tyrannical rule. They thought separation of powers was a foolproof way of preventing that. But it clearly hasn't worked.

Still getting a whole lot of opinion over here and not any hard evidence.....

The Supreme Court has consistently failed to check tyrannical/unconstitutional legislation. Japanese internment, the Dred Scott decision, the War on Drugs, the Patriot Act... What a joke. And nobody should expect otherwise. Supreme court justices are nominated by the President and confirmed by Congress! Why would any politician appoint a judge who wanted to restrain government growth?

they ruled that japanese internment wasnt unconstitutional and the dred scott decision was about restriction of property rights more than about slavery so if anything they dropped the ball, but they didnt ignore it. As for the other two, the constitutionality of the war on drugs has not been called into question and neither has the Patriot Act, its not the duty of the court to go after all laws and test their constitutionality, just those that are brought to them.....

The President can go to war without congressional approval

But he'll need it if he wants to stay for longer than three months
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com...

as has been done consistently for half a century. He can pass executive freaking orders.

not all executive orders are war related.....

The failure of the Founding Fathers (in this case meaning framers of the Constitution) to foresee that separation of powers would eventually deteriorate into near meaninglessness and fail to check government tyranny is, in my opinion, their most grave.

and we're back to a while lot of opinion...
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/30/2012 2:14:05 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
On the contrary, I don't think the founders ever intended it or expected it to be permanent as they set up.

Thomas Jefferson declared that there should be a new revolution at least every 20 years.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
NixonianVolkswagen
Posts: 481
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/30/2012 3:30:20 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I don't think the most notable framers ever thought that the citizenry would become so passive.
"There is an almost universal tendency, perhaps an inborn tendency, to suspect the good faith of a man who holds opinions that differ from our own opinions."

- Karl "Spartacus" Popper
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/30/2012 3:52:54 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
My favourite part was when he complained that the head of the executive branch of government passes executive orders...
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
jat93
Posts: 1,440
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/30/2012 4:26:06 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/30/2012 3:52:54 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
My favourite part was when he complained that the head of the executive branch of government passes executive orders...

Sorry, I typed this rather quickly. Still, in a discussion about how separation powers has utterly failed in preventing tyranny and unconstitutional government action, it's obvious I'm not talking about standard, uncontroversial "executive order" - but rather when a President uses it to completely bypass congress. George W Bush used it to block stem cell research, give the Vice President power to control which documents are declassified, gave legal protection to U.S. corporations dealing with Iraqi oil, and so on.
jat93
Posts: 1,440
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/30/2012 4:34:18 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Freedo and Nixonian - that's very true, I wasn't thinking of that when I posted this... I'm not sure they all wanted a revolution every few decades as Jefferson might have but they certainly were banking on the public not becoming apathetic and/or gullible fools. Doesn't change the fact that it didn't work out in the long run though. Their assumptions about American society were wrong. Also, maybe it's just me, but I feel like politicians are significantly more corrupt and less principled and have less integrity than the politicians of the Founding era. (Obviously major corruption in American politics is nothing new though, it was even a hot topic in American politics during the mid to late 1800s.)
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/30/2012 5:27:13 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/30/2012 4:26:06 AM, jat93 wrote:
At 8/30/2012 3:52:54 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
My favourite part was when he complained that the head of the executive branch of government passes executive orders...

Sorry, I typed this rather quickly. Still, in a discussion about how separation powers has utterly failed in preventing tyranny and unconstitutional government action, it's obvious I'm not talking about standard, uncontroversial "executive order" - but rather when a President uses it to completely bypass congress. George W Bush used it to block stem cell research

Within the power of an executive head of state, and many leaders have done it. That means not just in America now, but American history moving back since Washington himself who vetoed twice. Bush barely vetoed at all, in fact: the most vetoes were by Cleveland and Roosevelt.

give the Vice President power to control which documents are declassified,

Whut? Didn't know this was true, nor seems wikipedia when I quickly checked...

gave legal protection to U.S. corporations dealing with Iraqi oil, and so on.

This is the one I still have problems with ever occurring anywhere, but facts are facts: this does happen everywhere.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/30/2012 5:31:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
THEY WANT TO CONTROL YOU. You know it. You see it. They dont care about you. They moving ever so silently towards the goal. World Government and chip implantation so to know everything about you and where you are. You see it and know it but try to refuse it. It talks about something very very similiar somewhere. I wonder where?
TheAsylum
imabench
Posts: 21,230
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/30/2012 6:29:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/30/2012 5:31:35 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
THEY WANT TO CONTROL YOU. You know it. You see it. They dont care about you. They moving ever so silently towards the goal. World Government and chip implantation so to know everything about you and where you are. You see it and know it but try to refuse it. It talks about something very very similiar somewhere. I wonder where?

thank you for this wonderful contribution scotty -______-
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/30/2012 6:45:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/30/2012 6:29:53 AM, imabench wrote:
At 8/30/2012 5:31:35 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
THEY WANT TO CONTROL YOU. You know it. You see it. They dont care about you. They moving ever so silently towards the goal. World Government and chip implantation so to know everything about you and where you are. You see it and know it but try to refuse it. It talks about something very very similiar somewhere. I wonder where?

thank you for this wonderful contribution scotty -__THE HOLY BIBLE__-
TheAsylum