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Can you balance the federal budget?

Microsuck
Posts: 1,562
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9/30/2012 7:12:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
There are numerous federal budget simulators out there on the web. I have done a few and have been able to solve the deficit problem and balance the budget.
How about you, can you do it?

http://www.nathannewman.org...

Old budget was $3748.1268 billion
($2673 billion in spending, $1075.1268 billion in tax expenditures and cuts).
New budget is $2609.2 billion
($1501.39 billion in spending, $1107.81 billion in tax expenditures and cuts).

You have cut the deficit by $1138.93 billion.

Your new deficit is $-737.92 billion.
Wall of Fail

Devil worship much? - SD
Newsflash: Atheists do not believe in the Devil! - Me
Newsflash: I doesnt matter if you think you do or not.....You do - SD

"you [imabench] are very naive and so i do not consider your opinions as having any merit. you must still be in highschool" - falconduler
Microsuck
Posts: 1,562
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9/30/2012 7:15:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/30/2012 7:12:01 PM, Microsuck wrote:
There are numerous federal budget simulators out there on the web. I have done a few and have been able to solve the deficit problem and balance the budget.
How about you, can you do it?

http://www.nathannewman.org...

Old budget was $3748.1268 billion
($2673 billion in spending, $1075.1268 billion in tax expenditures and cuts).
New budget is $2609.2 billion
($1501.39 billion in spending, $1107.81 billion in tax expenditures and cuts).

You have cut the deficit by $1138.93 billion.

Your new deficit is $-737.92 billion.

Note that my budget is probably even more of a surplus because I didn't complete the entire thing
Wall of Fail

Devil worship much? - SD
Newsflash: Atheists do not believe in the Devil! - Me
Newsflash: I doesnt matter if you think you do or not.....You do - SD

"you [imabench] are very naive and so i do not consider your opinions as having any merit. you must still be in highschool" - falconduler
imabench
Posts: 21,219
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9/30/2012 8:14:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/30/2012 7:15:46 PM, Microsuck wrote:
At 9/30/2012 7:12:01 PM, Microsuck wrote:
There are numerous federal budget simulators out there on the web. I have done a few and have been able to solve the deficit problem and balance the budget.
How about you, can you do it?

http://www.nathannewman.org...

Old budget was $3748.1268 billion
($2673 billion in spending, $1075.1268 billion in tax expenditures and cuts).
New budget is $2609.2 billion
($1501.39 billion in spending, $1107.81 billion in tax expenditures and cuts).

You have cut the deficit by $1138.93 billion.

Your new deficit is $-737.92 billion.

Note that my budget is probably even more of a surplus because I didn't complete the entire thing

Oh wow, if its on the internet it must be completely accurate!

I just genetically engineered this germ that can kill off the world in this simulation called "Pandemic II", so I should probably become a micro biologist!
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darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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9/30/2012 8:20:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/30/2012 7:12:01 PM, Microsuck wrote:
There are numerous federal budget simulators out there on the web. I have done a few and have been able to solve the deficit problem and balance the budget.
How about you, can you do it?

Yes, its called eliminate everything. Dur.
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Koopin
Posts: 12,090
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9/30/2012 8:30:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/30/2012 8:23:32 PM, darkkermit wrote:
that is so many buttons you have to press. Why would anybody play that.
kfc
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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9/30/2012 8:31:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Set everything to "eliminate" until I was about half way through. Said screw this, this is taking too long. Left everything else and pressed for the results. Cut the deficet by 700 billion, woot!
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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9/30/2012 8:32:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
That's not a very good simulator... it treats tax cuts as expenses.

It should just be expenses and revenues.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
JaxsonRaine
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9/30/2012 8:33:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Not to mention, if you just up and cut a whole department, there are consequences to that(unemployed people, less tax revenue, more benefits to pay out, etc)
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
darkkermit
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9/30/2012 8:41:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/30/2012 8:33:50 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
Not to mention, if you just up and cut a whole department, there are consequences to that(unemployed people, less tax revenue, more benefits to pay out, etc)

cutting the government can have economically negative consequences.

Keynesian/Liberal heretic.
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imabench
Posts: 21,219
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9/30/2012 8:49:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
i just noticed you cant raise taxes. I call bullsh*t on this now
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
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Contra
Posts: 3,941
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9/30/2012 9:06:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/30/2012 8:41:22 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 9/30/2012 8:33:50 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
Not to mention, if you just up and cut a whole department, there are consequences to that(unemployed people, less tax revenue, more benefits to pay out, etc)

cutting the government can have economically negative consequences.

Keynesian/Liberal heretic.

I don't see really why. If you cut taxes, and cut government, wealth flows back into the private sector, and the free market will provide these services, and they will be efficiently allocated via prices. The private sector can provide the same services as the gov't currently monopolizes, and create jobs, wealth, and prosperity in the process. This doesn't mean I support cutting all gov't spending though.

For example, federal gov't doesn't pay for highways, instead private contracting companies compete to do so. Or various banks compete for providing student loans. Or various companies compete in providing high speed internet, etc.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
darkkermit
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9/30/2012 9:26:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/30/2012 9:06:09 PM, Contra wrote:
At 9/30/2012 8:41:22 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 9/30/2012 8:33:50 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
Not to mention, if you just up and cut a whole department, there are consequences to that(unemployed people, less tax revenue, more benefits to pay out, etc)

cutting the government can have economically negative consequences.

Keynesian/Liberal heretic.

I don't see really why. If you cut taxes, and cut government, wealth flows back into the private sector, and the free market will provide these services, and they will be efficiently allocated via prices. The private sector can provide the same services as the gov't currently monopolizes, and create jobs, wealth, and prosperity in the process. This doesn't mean I support cutting all gov't spending though.

For example, federal gov't doesn't pay for highways, instead private contracting companies compete to do so. Or various banks compete for providing student loans. Or various companies compete in providing high speed internet, etc.

In the short run it causes consequences. Think about it. If hundreds of thousands of people in the federal government got laid off, then there is no way the private sector could absorb them. Not in a quick fashion. It would take time to absorb them into the private sector.
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Greyparrot
Posts: 14,281
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9/30/2012 9:48:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
What is the point of all this? ....to show we can put off the road to Greece by 10 or 20 years by alienating 40% of the voters?

Whatever.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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9/30/2012 9:57:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/30/2012 9:48:25 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
What is the point of all this? ....to show we can put off the road to Greece by 10 or 20 years by alienating 40% of the voters?


Whatever.

The US isn't headed to Greece. We've been in far worse debt scenarios before. We still have a very high rating at paying it back.
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fnord
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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9/30/2012 9:57:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/30/2012 9:26:19 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 9/30/2012 9:06:09 PM, Contra wrote:
At 9/30/2012 8:41:22 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 9/30/2012 8:33:50 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
Not to mention, if you just up and cut a whole department, there are consequences to that(unemployed people, less tax revenue, more benefits to pay out, etc)

cutting the government can have economically negative consequences.

Keynesian/Liberal heretic.

I don't see really why. If you cut taxes, and cut government, wealth flows back into the private sector, and the free market will provide these services, and they will be efficiently allocated via prices. The private sector can provide the same services as the gov't currently monopolizes, and create jobs, wealth, and prosperity in the process. This doesn't mean I support cutting all gov't spending though.

For example, federal gov't doesn't pay for highways, instead private contracting companies compete to do so. Or various banks compete for providing student loans. Or various companies compete in providing high speed internet, etc.

In the short run it causes consequences. Think about it. If hundreds of thousands of people in the federal government got laid off, then there is no way the private sector could absorb them. Not in a quick fashion. It would take time to absorb them into the private sector.

True, like "creative destruction." In the short run it definitely will cause negative consequences, but in the long term we would be better off. And besides, cutting gov't taxation and spending will likely lower our debt burden, helping lower interest rates and therefore help the economy (although indirectly).

I'll admit that having a blend of spending cuts and revenue increases has been proposed by many economists as less harmful for the economy than purely one way or the other. Though, they find spending needs to be cut more than revenue needs to be increased, and I agree with that. The $10 in spending cuts deal for $1 in revenue is a reasonable compromise.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
darkkermit
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9/30/2012 9:58:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/30/2012 9:57:08 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 9/30/2012 9:48:25 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
What is the point of all this? ....to show we can put off the road to Greece by 10 or 20 years by alienating 40% of the voters?


Whatever.

The US isn't headed to Greece. We've been in far worse debt scenarios before. We still have a very high rating at paying it back.

It's easy to pay off the debt. However can the debt be paid off without inducing massive inflation.
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Contra
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9/30/2012 9:59:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/30/2012 9:58:39 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 9/30/2012 9:57:08 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 9/30/2012 9:48:25 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
What is the point of all this? ....to show we can put off the road to Greece by 10 or 20 years by alienating 40% of the voters?


Whatever.

The US isn't headed to Greece. We've been in far worse debt scenarios before. We still have a very high rating at paying it back.

It's easy to pay off the debt. However can the debt be paid off without inducing massive inflation.

There's always the option of defaulting.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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9/30/2012 10:01:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/30/2012 9:59:53 PM, Contra wrote:
At 9/30/2012 9:58:39 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 9/30/2012 9:57:08 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 9/30/2012 9:48:25 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
What is the point of all this? ....to show we can put off the road to Greece by 10 or 20 years by alienating 40% of the voters?


Whatever.

The US isn't headed to Greece. We've been in far worse debt scenarios before. We still have a very high rating at paying it back.

It's easy to pay off the debt. However can the debt be paid off without inducing massive inflation.

There's always the option of defaulting.

then that's not exactly paying off the debt :).
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Contra
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9/30/2012 10:03:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/30/2012 10:01:21 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 9/30/2012 9:59:53 PM, Contra wrote:
At 9/30/2012 9:58:39 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 9/30/2012 9:57:08 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 9/30/2012 9:48:25 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
What is the point of all this? ....to show we can put off the road to Greece by 10 or 20 years by alienating 40% of the voters?


Whatever.

The US isn't headed to Greece. We've been in far worse debt scenarios before. We still have a very high rating at paying it back.

It's easy to pay off the debt. However can the debt be paid off without inducing massive inflation.

There's always the option of defaulting.

then that's not exactly paying off the debt :).

Well yeah, but we don't have to pay off the debt. It also though would hurt in the short term, some tough medicine to help us heal is a good analogy.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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9/30/2012 10:07:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Anyone trying to figure out how to pay off the debt is barking up the wrong tree. It's just dumb. No country does that. Debt is useful and nothing bad is going to happen if you keep it within reasonable means. Trying to completely pay off the debt will wreak havoc on the economy without actually making up for it with any good. All we need to do is keep it within reasonable means. Work up surpluses in good years and deficits in bad years. It's really not as big a deal as everyone makes it. People are generally just terrified of numbers that they can't count to, no matter what they actually mean.
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fnord
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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9/30/2012 10:08:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
for the taxes I dont know which one cuts them and which one doesn't >.<
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"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
16kadams
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9/30/2012 10:09:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
It says I have a surplus, but thats bad?!
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"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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9/30/2012 10:10:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/30/2012 10:07:56 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Anyone trying to figure out how to pay off the debt is barking up the wrong tree. It's just dumb. No country does that. Debt is useful and nothing bad is going to happen if you keep it within reasonable means. Trying to completely pay off the debt will wreak havoc on the economy without actually making up for it with any good. All we need to do is keep it within reasonable means. Work up surpluses in good years and deficits in bad years. It's really not as big a deal as everyone makes it. People are generally just terrified of numbers that they can't count to, no matter what they actually mean.

Basically keep the economy growing as the debt shrinks as a level of GDP, probably around 35% or so. As Paul Krugman said, "If we didn't have debt, we'd be poorer as a society [today]."
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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9/30/2012 10:10:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/30/2012 7:15:46 PM, Microsuck wrote:
At 9/30/2012 7:12:01 PM, Microsuck wrote:
There are numerous federal budget simulators out there on the web. I have done a few and have been able to solve the deficit problem and balance the budget.
How about you, can you do it?

http://www.nathannewman.org...

Old budget was $3748.1268 billion
($2673 billion in spending, $1075.1268 billion in tax expenditures and cuts).
New budget is $2609.2 billion
($1501.39 billion in spending, $1107.81 billion in tax expenditures and cuts).

You have cut the deficit by $1138.93 billion.

Your new deficit is $-737.92 billion.

Note that my budget is probably even more of a surplus because I didn't complete the entire thing

Old budget was $3748.1268 billion
($2673 billion in spending, $1075.1268 billion in tax expenditures and cuts).

New budget is $2887.54 billion
($1823.11 billion in spending, $1064.43 billion in tax expenditures and cuts).
You have cut the deficit by $860.59 billion.
Your new deficit is $-459.58 billion.

Oops!
You've cut so much that the federal budget now contains a substantial surplus. Many economists warn that this budget may help induce or prolong a recession, and ordinary citizens demand a refund. You might want to cut taxes or raise spending.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,281
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9/30/2012 10:12:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/30/2012 10:07:56 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Anyone trying to figure out how to pay off the debt is barking up the wrong tree. It's just dumb. No country does that. Debt is useful and nothing bad is going to happen if you keep it within reasonable means. Trying to completely pay off the debt will wreak havoc on the economy without actually making up for it with any good. All we need to do is keep it within reasonable means. Work up surpluses in good years and deficits in bad years. It's really not as big a deal as everyone makes it. People are generally just terrified of numbers that they can't count to, no matter what they actually mean.

Im not terrified of numbers.

Im terrified of having our credit rating downgraded (again?) and having the value of our dollar and standard of living downgraded.

Who gives a crap about your GDP when your dollars aren't worth anything.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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9/30/2012 10:15:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/30/2012 10:12:09 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 9/30/2012 10:07:56 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Anyone trying to figure out how to pay off the debt is barking up the wrong tree. It's just dumb. No country does that. Debt is useful and nothing bad is going to happen if you keep it within reasonable means. Trying to completely pay off the debt will wreak havoc on the economy without actually making up for it with any good. All we need to do is keep it within reasonable means. Work up surpluses in good years and deficits in bad years. It's really not as big a deal as everyone makes it. People are generally just terrified of numbers that they can't count to, no matter what they actually mean.

Im not terrified of numbers.

Im terrified of having our credit rating downgraded (again?) and having the value of our dollar and standard of living downgraded.

Who gives a crap about your GDP when your dollars aren't worth anything.

If GDP is increasing, unless there is a major change in gini coefficient, your wealth goes up. Inflation isn't bad If your wage and non-monetary assets rises with inflation.
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JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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9/30/2012 11:28:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/30/2012 8:41:22 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 9/30/2012 8:33:50 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
Not to mention, if you just up and cut a whole department, there are consequences to that(unemployed people, less tax revenue, more benefits to pay out, etc)

cutting the government can have economically negative consequences.

Keynesian/Liberal heretic.

Yeah, I'm really crazy that way.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13