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POLlCE STATE USA

Wallstreetatheist
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10/13/2012 6:44:31 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
POLICE STATE USA: The Paranoid Style of American Governance

The following pieces of legislation, programs, and actions"by no means exhaustive"illustrate the unfortunate yet steady advance in the paranoid style of American governance that especially since 2001 has placed both the subject and all who come in to contact with it at risk of serious injury or death.

(I only show post-9/11 atrocities)

Model States Emergency Health Powers Act, 2001

Calls for giving state public health officials broad, new police powers for controlling epidemics of infectious diseases during public health emergencies. Defines "infectious disease" as "a disease caused by a living organism." Forces individuals suspected of harboring an "infectious disease" to undergo medical examinations, be vaccinated, treated, or quarantined for infectious diseases.

USA PATRIOT Act, 2001

Enacted in response to the September 11, 2001 attacks. Provides for wide range of unchecked US government surveillance powers to access personal records, monitor financial transactions, student, medical and other information. "Sneak and peak" searches permit "delayed notice" warrants, roving wiretaps, email tracking, and Internet and cell phone monitoring." Crime of "domestic terrorism" enacted to include anti-war activists, global justice demonstrators, environmental and animal rights adherents. Civil disobedience, and dissent of any kind may be included under all-encompassing definition. Law is vague enough to label almost anything "terrorism" at government"s discretion.

US government may confiscate or freeze all foreign and domestic assets of any individual, entity, or organization accused of engaging in, planning, supporting, concealing, or perpetrating any act considered domestic or international terrorism against America.

Establishment of United States Department of Homeland Security (DHS), 2001

Created in response to the September 11, 2001 attacks. Cabinet department of the US federal government that is domestic counterpart to US Department of Defense. with primary responsibilities of protecting the United States of America and US Territories from and responding to terrorist attacks, man-made accidents, and natural disasters. In fiscal year 2011 it was allocated a budget of $98.8 billion, spent $66.4 billion, and had 200,000 employees. Stated goal is to prepare for, prevent, and respond to domestic emergencies, particularly terrorism.

Establishment of Transportation Safety Authority, 2001

Created in response to the September 11, 2001 attacks. Charged with developing policies to protect U.S. transportation, especially airport security and the prevention of aircraft hijacking. TSA oversees security for highways, railroads, buses, mass transit systems, pipelines, ports. Responsible for screening passengers and checked and carry-on baggage at 450 U.S. airports.

Federal establishment of State and Local Fusion Centers, 2004

DHS establishes Fusion Centers, defined as a "collaborative effort of two or more Federal, State, local, or tribal government agencies that combines resources, expertise, and information with the goal of maximizing the ability of such agencies to detect, prevent, investigate, apprehend, and respond to criminal and terrorist activity." "Fusion" also refers to data mining of multiple sources of information on citizens who may pose "terrorist threat". There are presently 58 such centers operating throughout US.

John Warner Defense Authorization Act (H.R. 5122) 2007

Allows US President to declare a "public emergency," station troops anywhere in America and take control of state-based National Guard units without the consent of the governor or local authorities, in order to "suppress public disorder."

National Defense Authorization Act, 2011

Puts domestic terror investigations and interrogations into the hands of the military. Allows for stripping of due process, indefinite detention of anyone, including American citizens, based on US government claim that they are terrorists.

Strategic Implementation Plan, 2011

Coordination of United States federal government with regional and local authorities in three core areas: (1) enhancing engagement with and support to local communities that may be targeted by violent extremists; (2) building government and law enforcement expertise for preventing violent extremism; and (3) countering violent extremist propaganda while promoting US ideals.

Communities Against Terrorist Program, 2011

FBI and DOJ campaign to enlist workers in 25 industries to spy on fellow workers and citizens and report findings to federal authorities. Citizen spies being recruited from hotel and motel personnel, dive shop operators, car and property rental agents, tattoo parlors employees, gun dealers and Internet cafe clerks.

Spy-ware in Home Appliances, 2012

All new online devices provide a treasure trove of data to US intelligence on "persons of interest" or "potential terrorists." In March 2012 CIA Director David Petraeus discussed emergence of an "Internet of Things" " or, wired devices " at summit for the CIA"s venture capital firm In-Q-Tel. ""Transformational" is an overused word, but I do believe it properly applies to these technologies," Petraeus remarked, "particularly to their effect on clandestine tradecraft."

Executive Order " Food Resources, 2012

"National Defense Resources Preparedness" EO enacted on March 16, 2012 renews and updates the president"s power to take control of all civil energy supplies, including oil and natural gas, control and restrict all civil transportation, which is almost 97 percent dependent upon oil; and even provides the option to re-institute conscription in order to achieve both the military and non-military demands of the country.

DHS Purchases Enough Ammunition to Eliminate Entire US Population, 2012

The DHS signs off on "indefinite delivery" for nearly 500 million high-power ammunition for .40 caliber firearms from defense contractors ATK. Department says it expects to continue receiving shipments from the manufacturer for the next five years.

President Obama"s Assassination List, 2012

Obama and about 100 counter-terrorism officials have created "kill list" to specify extrajudicial killings of suspected Al Qaeda terrorists in the drone war in Pakistan and Yemen. Obama exercises complete discretion over who may be placed on list. American citizens are not exempt.

US Military to Launch Armed Drones Domestically, 2012

NDAA sets stage for US military to arm up to 30,000 drones set to fly over US. More powerful versions of the famed Predator drones, known as MQ-9 Reaper drones, are being fitted with missiles and other explosive ordinances as part of the deployment of 30,000 drones authorized to fly over the US.

http://www.globalresearch.ca...
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bossyburrito
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10/13/2012 7:56:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
The only parts I have a problem with are the Strategic Implementation Plan and the Patriot Act.
I do think its a waste of money, but just because they pass these laws doesn't mean that they wouldn't do this without said laws. If a government goes psycho, it doesn't need to pass laws...
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
Citrakayah
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10/13/2012 10:18:38 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
About the ammunition... is 500 million rounds enough to kill 300 or so million people? Seems like they're expecting excellent aim.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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10/13/2012 11:24:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/13/2012 10:18:38 AM, Citrakayah wrote:
About the ammunition... is 500 million rounds enough to kill 300 or so million people? Seems like they're expecting excellent aim.

And you would have to evenly distribute such ammo across the country so everyone is in range of one of these 500million rounds.
socialpinko
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10/13/2012 11:26:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I love how the only thing people are focusing on is the dumb ammunition point. The points that have clear validity are obviously in more need of ignoring.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
socialpinko
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10/13/2012 11:30:18 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/13/2012 7:56:19 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
The only parts I have a problem with are the Strategic Implementation Plan and the Patriot Act.
I do think its a waste of money, but just because they pass these laws doesn't mean that they wouldn't do this without said laws. If a government goes psycho, it doesn't need to pass laws...

Obviously, though the passage of laws like this is itself a sign of government going psycho even if they could do so without them.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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10/13/2012 11:41:09 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/13/2012 11:26:35 AM, socialpinko wrote:
I love how the only thing people are focusing on is the dumb ammunition point. The points that have clear validity are obviously in more need of ignoring.

Yeah but there's nothing we can do about it.

I've become a political cynic. Short of revolution there won't be any major change in Washington or the country at large.
socialpinko
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10/13/2012 11:46:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/13/2012 11:41:09 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 10/13/2012 11:26:35 AM, socialpinko wrote:
I love how the only thing people are focusing on is the dumb ammunition point. The points that have clear validity are obviously in more need of ignoring.

Yeah but there's nothing we can do about it.

I've become a political cynic. Short of revolution there won't be any major change in Washington or the country at large.

And I agree with that. Though I'd add that financial collapse would also change things. It's still important to talk about it though, at least because I find it annoying when people completely ignore it.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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10/13/2012 11:50:57 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/13/2012 11:46:03 AM, socialpinko wrote:
At 10/13/2012 11:41:09 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 10/13/2012 11:26:35 AM, socialpinko wrote:
I love how the only thing people are focusing on is the dumb ammunition point. The points that have clear validity are obviously in more need of ignoring.

Yeah but there's nothing we can do about it.

I've become a political cynic. Short of revolution there won't be any major change in Washington or the country at large.

And I agree with that. Though I'd add that financial collapse would also change things. It's still important to talk about it though, at least because I find it annoying when people completely ignore it.

'Tis true, Americans rather enjoy ignoring problems rather than confronting them -which is why we have so many problems.
Contra
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10/13/2012 11:51:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/13/2012 11:50:57 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 10/13/2012 11:46:03 AM, socialpinko wrote:
At 10/13/2012 11:41:09 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 10/13/2012 11:26:35 AM, socialpinko wrote:
I love how the only thing people are focusing on is the dumb ammunition point. The points that have clear validity are obviously in more need of ignoring.

Yeah but there's nothing we can do about it.

I've become a political cynic. Short of revolution there won't be any major change in Washington or the country at large.

And I agree with that. Though I'd add that financial collapse would also change things. It's still important to talk about it though, at least because I find it annoying when people completely ignore it.

'Tis true, Americans rather enjoy ignoring problems rather than confronting them -which is why we have so many problems.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
bossyburrito
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10/13/2012 11:54:39 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/13/2012 11:50:57 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 10/13/2012 11:46:03 AM, socialpinko wrote:
At 10/13/2012 11:41:09 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 10/13/2012 11:26:35 AM, socialpinko wrote:
I love how the only thing people are focusing on is the dumb ammunition point. The points that have clear validity are obviously in more need of ignoring.

Yeah but there's nothing we can do about it.

I've become a political cynic. Short of revolution there won't be any major change in Washington or the country at large.

And I agree with that. Though I'd add that financial collapse would also change things. It's still important to talk about it though, at least because I find it annoying when people completely ignore it.

'Tis true, Americans rather enjoy ignoring problems rather than confronting them -which is why we have so many problems.

Tell me how we can confront them.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
Contra
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10/13/2012 12:12:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/13/2012 11:54:39 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 10/13/2012 11:50:57 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 10/13/2012 11:46:03 AM, socialpinko wrote:
At 10/13/2012 11:41:09 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 10/13/2012 11:26:35 AM, socialpinko wrote:
I love how the only thing people are focusing on is the dumb ammunition point. The points that have clear validity are obviously in more need of ignoring.

Yeah but there's nothing we can do about it.

I've become a political cynic. Short of revolution there won't be any major change in Washington or the country at large.

And I agree with that. Though I'd add that financial collapse would also change things. It's still important to talk about it though, at least because I find it annoying when people completely ignore it.

'Tis true, Americans rather enjoy ignoring problems rather than confronting them -which is why we have so many problems.

Tell me how we can confront them.

Gary Johnson/ Ron Paul.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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10/13/2012 12:25:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/13/2012 11:54:39 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 10/13/2012 11:50:57 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 10/13/2012 11:46:03 AM, socialpinko wrote:
At 10/13/2012 11:41:09 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 10/13/2012 11:26:35 AM, socialpinko wrote:
I love how the only thing people are focusing on is the dumb ammunition point. The points that have clear validity are obviously in more need of ignoring.

Yeah but there's nothing we can do about it.

I've become a political cynic. Short of revolution there won't be any major change in Washington or the country at large.

And I agree with that. Though I'd add that financial collapse would also change things. It's still important to talk about it though, at least because I find it annoying when people completely ignore it.

'Tis true, Americans rather enjoy ignoring problems rather than confronting them -which is why we have so many problems.

Tell me how we can confront them.

Radical change. Support people actually willing to change the status quo.

People like Paul Ryan and Gary Johnson.

March in protest movements. Vote at the ballot box. Fund Super-PACs against status quo politicians.
Citrakayah
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10/13/2012 12:42:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/13/2012 11:26:35 AM, socialpinko wrote:
I love how the only thing people are focusing on is the dumb ammunition point. The points that have clear validity are obviously in more need of ignoring.

Well, we agree with everything else, but don't exactly see how talking about it here will do much, so are merely trying to understand why we should care about the ammunition point, so that if it is really bad we an oppose that too.
GeoLaureate8
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10/13/2012 3:02:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/13/2012 11:24:27 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 10/13/2012 10:18:38 AM, Citrakayah wrote:
About the ammunition... is 500 million rounds enough to kill 300 or so million people? Seems like they're expecting excellent aim.

And you would have to evenly distribute such ammo across the country so everyone is in range of one of these 500million rounds.

You assume that they literally plan to kill EVERYBODY. No one said that.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
CrazyPerson
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10/13/2012 3:05:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
DHS Purchases Enough Ammunition to Eliminate Entire US Population, 2012

The DHS signs off on "indefinite delivery" for nearly 500 million high-power ammunition for .40 caliber firearms from defense contractors ATK. Department says it expects to continue receiving shipments from the manufacturer for the next five years.

This is just a fun way to depict the amount of ammo purchased. For instance, i have had enough LSD at one point to make a classroom full of children laugh at pencil shavings for 36 hours, but i never intended to do such a thing.
But we try to pretend, you see, that the external world exists altogether independently of us.
- - - Watts
The moralist is the person who tells people that they ought to be unselfish, when they still feel like egos, and his efforts are always and invariably futile.
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GeoLaureate8
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10/13/2012 3:12:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
ConservativePolitico talks about people not confronting problems yet he was the one ignored everything but the ammunition. His excuse being, it's bad nothing I can do.

You know what you can do, you TELL EVERYBODY about this and they will stop allowing it to happen. It's an INFOWAR and the people have to win. If we could spread the message of Ron Paul, Alex Jones, and Gary Johnson to 100% of the military, 100% of the police, 100% of the people under the bureaucracy, then who would be there to commit tyranny against us? If everyone engages in noncompliance, what will they do, is David Rockefeller gonna run down the streets and start kicking people's as$ himself? Highly unlikely.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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10/13/2012 4:36:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/13/2012 3:12:14 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
ConservativePolitico talks about people not confronting problems yet he was the one ignored everything but the ammunition. His excuse being, it's bad nothing I can do.

You know what you can do, you TELL EVERYBODY about this and they will stop allowing it to happen. It's an INFOWAR and the people have to win. If we could spread the message of Ron Paul, Alex Jones, and Gary Johnson to 100% of the military, 100% of the police, 100% of the people under the bureaucracy, then who would be there to commit tyranny against us? If everyone engages in noncompliance, what will they do, is David Rockefeller gonna run down the streets and start kicking people's as$ himself? Highly unlikely.
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imabench
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10/13/2012 5:47:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/13/2012 6:44:31 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:

Model States Emergency Health Powers Act, 2001

Calls for giving state public health officials broad, new police powers for controlling epidemics of infectious diseases during public health emergencies. Defines "infectious disease" as "a disease caused by a living organism." Forces individuals suspected of harboring an "infectious disease" to undergo medical examinations, be vaccinated, treated, or quarantined for infectious diseases.

And whats wrong with the government organizing to fight epidemics or potential bio-terrorist attacks that are potentially a statewide or even a national threat?

USA PATRIOT Act, 2001

Enacted in response to the September 11, 2001 attacks. Provides for wide range of unchecked US government surveillance powers to access personal records, monitor financial transactions, student, medical and other information. "Sneak and peak" searches permit "delayed notice" warrants, roving wiretaps, email tracking, and Internet and cell phone monitoring." Crime of "domestic terrorism" enacted to include anti-war activists, global justice demonstrators, environmental and animal rights adherents. Civil disobedience, and dissent of any kind may be included under all-encompassing definition. Law is vague enough to label almost anything "terrorism" at government"s discretion.

I can see the problems within this one.

US government may confiscate or freeze all foreign and domestic assets of any individual, entity, or organization accused of engaging in, planning, supporting, concealing, or perpetrating any act considered domestic or international terrorism against America.

I dont see anything wrong with this, whats wrong with freezing the accounts of individuals or businesses who are or may already have participated in acts of terrorism?

Establishment of United States Department of Homeland Security (DHS), 2001

Created in response to the September 11, 2001 attacks. Cabinet department of the US federal government that is domestic counterpart to US Department of Defense. with primary responsibilities of protecting the United States of America and US Territories from and responding to terrorist attacks, man-made accidents, and natural disasters. In fiscal year 2011 it was allocated a budget of $98.8 billion, spent $66.4 billion, and had 200,000 employees. Stated goal is to prepare for, prevent, and respond to domestic emergencies, particularly terrorism.

I dont see anything wrong with this either. Its just a branch similar to the Department of Defense meant to focus on domestic security.

Establishment of Transportation Safety Authority, 2001

Created in response to the September 11, 2001 attacks. Charged with developing policies to protect U.S. transportation, especially airport security and the prevention of aircraft hijacking. TSA oversees security for highways, railroads, buses, mass transit systems, pipelines, ports. Responsible for screening passengers and checked and carry-on baggage at 450 U.S. airports.

I dont see anything wrong with the TSA either and im sure that all non-conspiracy theorists also dont see anything wrong with them and would maybe even agree that they get a bum rap for the actions of a very small minority of TSA officers.

Federal establishment of State and Local Fusion Centers, 2004

DHS establishes Fusion Centers, defined as a "collaborative effort of two or more Federal, State, local, or tribal government agencies that combines resources, expertise, and information with the goal of maximizing the ability of such agencies to detect, prevent, investigate, apprehend, and respond to criminal and terrorist activity." "Fusion" also refers to data mining of multiple sources of information on citizens who may pose "terrorist threat". There are presently 58 such centers operating throughout US.

I also dont see anything wrong with fusing two agencies together to accomplish the same job they had in the first place.

John Warner Defense Authorization Act (H.R. 5122) 2007

Allows US President to declare a "public emergency," station troops anywhere in America and take control of state-based National Guard units without the consent of the governor or local authorities, in order to "suppress public disorder."

That was one small portion of the bill and it was meant to help the governmetn carry out Martial Law (something that almost never happens ever) In case state governments are incapacitated or unable to keep order.

National Defense Authorization Act, 2011

Puts domestic terror investigations and interrogations into the hands of the military. Allows for stripping of due process, indefinite detention of anyone, including American citizens, based on US government claim that they are terrorists.

I do have problems with this one

Strategic Implementation Plan, 2011

Coordination of United States federal government with regional and local authorities in three core areas: (1) enhancing engagement with and support to local communities that may be targeted by violent extremists; (2) building government and law enforcement expertise for preventing violent extremism; and (3) countering violent extremist propaganda while promoting US ideals.

I only have a problem with that underlined part IF its actually true.

Communities Against Terrorist Program, 2011

FBI and DOJ campaign to enlist workers in 25 industries to spy on fellow workers and citizens and report findings to federal authorities. Citizen spies being recruited from hotel and motel personnel, dive shop operators, car and property rental agents, tattoo parlors employees, gun dealers and Internet cafe clerks.

Yorue a little off on this one, its actually a program where the government provides information to community organizations about how to spot the planning of terrorist activities in different industries via fliers. This act also only authorizes how people can report suspected terrorist activities to authorities. It does NOT make them official spies on a government salary who are paid only if they submit reports.

Spy-ware in Home Appliances, 2012

All new online devices provide a treasure trove of data to US intelligence on "persons of interest" or "potential terrorists." In March 2012 CIA Director David Petraeus discussed emergence of an "Internet of Things" " or, wired devices " at summit for the CIA"s venture capital firm In-Q-Tel. ""Transformational" is an overused word, but I do believe it properly applies to these technologies," Petraeus remarked, "particularly to their effect on clandestine tradecraft."

I call bullsh*t on this one since the only article I could find about this came from infowars.

http://www.infowars.com...

Executive Order " Food Resources, 2012

"National Defense Resources Preparedness" EO enacted on March 16, 2012 renews and updates the president"s power to take control of all civil energy supplies, including oil and natural gas, control and restrict all civil transportation, which is almost 97 percent dependent upon oil; and even provides the option to re-institute conscription in order to achieve both the military and non-military demands of the country.

I didnt find anything authorizing any of that in the actual law shown in the link below.

http://www.whitehouse.gov...
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
imabench
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10/13/2012 5:54:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/13/2012 6:44:31 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:

DHS Purchases Enough Ammunition to Eliminate Entire US Population, 2012

The DHS signs off on "indefinite delivery" for nearly 500 million high-power ammunition for .40 caliber firearms from defense contractors ATK. Department says it expects to continue receiving shipments from the manufacturer for the next five years.

They use those for training new officers, and considering they employ a lot of officers, it means they need a sh*t load of bullets to keep training them. They arent planning for WWIII so just relax.

President Obama"s Assassination List, 2012

Obama and about 100 counter-terrorism officials have created "kill list" to specify extrajudicial killings of suspected Al Qaeda terrorists in the drone war in Pakistan and Yemen. Obama exercises complete discretion over who may be placed on list. American citizens are not exempt.

I see nothing wrong with this since you seem to be looking over a few key details.

US Military to Launch Armed Drones Domestically, 2012

NDAA sets stage for US military to arm up to 30,000 drones set to fly over US. More powerful versions of the famed Predator drones, known as MQ-9 Reaper drones, are being fitted with missiles and other explosive ordinances as part of the deployment of 30,000 drones authorized to fly over the US.

Geo tried selling this same sh*t in another thread. The NDAA is projecting that UP TO 30,000 drones could be in the air, at the end of the year 2020. Also, if that many do get deployed ,they are mostly meant simply to be eyes in the sky for local authorities to coordinate with, there is absolutely no evidence to suggest they will be outfitted with giant missiles and used to fire on Americans.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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10/13/2012 10:20:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Rationality in a conspiracy thread? Imabench, you should be ashamed.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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10/14/2012 12:16:49 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/13/2012 5:47:33 PM, imabench wrote:
At 10/13/2012 6:44:31 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:

Model States Emergency Health Powers Act, 2001
And whats wrong with the government organizing to fight epidemics or potential bio-terrorist attacks that are potentially a statewide or even a national threat?

Governments are notoriously bad at responding to crises; not only will they do a bad job at treating the problem, they usually create bad externalities as well. Think FEMA.

USA PATRIOT Act, 2001
I can see the problems within this one.

US government may confiscate or freeze all foreign and domestic assets of any individual, entity, or organization accused of engaging in, planning, supporting, concealing, or perpetrating any act considered domestic or international terrorism against America.
I dont see anything wrong with this, whats wrong with freezing the accounts of individuals or businesses who are or may already have participated in acts of terrorism?

Okay, cool. I accuse you of supporting domestic terrorism.

Establishment of United States Department of Homeland Security (DHS), 2001
I dont see anything wrong with this either. Its just a branch similar to the Department of Defense meant to focus on domestic security.

You just mentioned one of the main reasons. We have a department of DEFENSE that failed to prevent 9/11, and largely generated the backlash against the United States. The government never misses a beat to expand its power and workforce. Adding 230,000 non-productive employees whose salaries are paid by productive American workers, generating a net-loss in economic productivity is another thing.

Establishment of Transportation Safety Authority, 2001
I dont see anything wrong with the TSA either and im sure that all non-conspiracy theorists also dont see anything wrong with them and would maybe even agree that they get a bum rap for the actions of a very small minority of TSA officers.

So because the US government wants to go around the world playing policeman, millions have be patted down, genitals groped, and severely inconvenienced in an airport by government employees? Evil begets evil. This is just another example. Airlines can provide their own security, and without the US government blowing people's families to pieces across the globe, the threat would be substantially reduced.

Federal establishment of State and Local Fusion Centers, 2004
I also dont see anything wrong with fusing two agencies together to accomplish the same job they had in the first place.

On the de facto broken system, I agree with you.

John Warner Defense Authorization Act (H.R. 5122) 2007
That was one small portion of the bill and it was meant to help the governmetn carry out Martial Law (something that almost never happens ever) In case state governments are incapacitated or unable to keep order.

Eh, it's not as shitty as some other pieces of legislation. The use of such martial law or national guard deployments have resulted in killing non-violent protesters, so I'm not really for it, or for paying for it.

National Defense Authorization Act, 2011
I do have problems with this one

Potassium.

Strategic Implementation Plan, 2011
I only have a problem with that underlined part IF its actually true.

Potassium, bromide dioxide.

Communities Against Terrorist Program, 2011
Yorue a little off on this one, its actually a program where the government provides information to community organizations about how to spot the planning of terrorist activities in different industries via fliers. This act also only authorizes how people can report suspected terrorist activities to authorities. It does NOT make them official spies on a government salary who are paid only if they submit reports.

Thanks for the clarification.

Spy-ware in Home Appliances, 2012
I call bullsh*t on this one since the only article I could find about this came from infowars.

I found over 1,800, but the evidence from several was not very good.

Executive Order " Food Resources, 2012
I didnt find anything authorizing any of that in the actual law shown in the link below.

It's not like the government has to get authorization for half the sh!t they do; the whole system is based on organized theft.
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Wallstreetatheist
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10/14/2012 12:25:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/13/2012 5:54:30 PM, imabench wrote:
At 10/13/2012 6:44:31 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:

DHS Purchases Enough Ammunition to Eliminate Entire US Population, 2012
They use those for training new officers, and considering they employ a lot of officers, it means they need a sh*t load of bullets to keep training them. They arent planning for WWIII so just relax.

NO YOU RELAX MAN! IT'S THE AMERICAN GENOCIDE PROPHESIED BY JOHN D. ROCKEFELLER AND INFOWARS!!! I think that policy just amplifies the failure of the Department of Defense: We have the most well-armed, well-equipped, most technologically advanced military in the world, but it wasn't enough? Why doesn't the political class stop killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people in the Middle East, and pursue policies of trade and diplomacy, and see where that gets us.

President Obama"s Assassination List, 2012
I see nothing wrong with this since you seem to be looking over a few key details.

I agree that there's nothing wrong with killing thousands of innocents, and causing intense psychological strain on almost a million people, but I'm over-looking details. K.

US Military to Launch Armed Drones Domestically, 2012

Geo tried selling this same sh*t in another thread. The NDAA is projecting that UP TO 30,000 drones could be in the air, at the end of the year 2020. Also, if that many do get deployed ,they are mostly meant simply to be eyes in the sky for local authorities to coordinate with, there is absolutely no evidence to suggest they will be outfitted with giant missiles and used to fire on Americans.

And that itself doesn't bother you?

Rationalizing bizarre and Orwellian policies doesn't make you an intellectual, it makes you complicit in your own own rights usurpation. And keep in mind, this is less than half of the list.
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Wallstreetatheist
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10/14/2012 12:28:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/13/2012 10:20:34 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
Rationality in a conspiracy thread? Imabench, you should be ashamed.

This is a conspiracy thread? You realize most of these are well-documented, right? He showed that one of these appears on infowars.com therefore it's false. What he said was factually inaccurate; there are almost 2,000 links for that heading. Nevertheless, that one item doesn't decrease the truth value of any of the other items. To think so is to invoke the poising the well fallacy.
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imabench
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10/14/2012 1:12:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/14/2012 12:16:49 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 10/13/2012 5:47:33 PM, imabench wrote:
At 10/13/2012 6:44:31 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:

Model States Emergency Health Powers Act, 2001
And whats wrong with the government organizing to fight epidemics or potential bio-terrorist attacks that are potentially a statewide or even a national threat?

Governments are notoriously bad at responding to crises; not only will they do a bad job at treating the problem, they usually create bad externalities as well. Think FEMA.

Using the most well known case of the government sucking at fixing a mess doesnt mean we shouldnt let them improve their abilities to get better at responding. If you let a child try to fold his laundry and he does a poor job, you dont cut off his hands to make sure he doesnt screw up again, you let him learn and get better.

US government may confiscate or freeze all foreign and domestic assets of any individual, entity, or organization accused of engaging in, planning, supporting, concealing, or perpetrating any act considered domestic or international terrorism against America.
I dont see anything wrong with this, whats wrong with freezing the accounts of individuals or businesses who are or may already have participated in acts of terrorism?

Okay, cool. I accuse you of supporting domestic terrorism.

Well youre not a part of the government or have any proof at all that im up to terrorist activities. Try again.

Establishment of United States Department of Homeland Security (DHS), 2001
I dont see anything wrong with this either. Its just a branch similar to the Department of Defense meant to focus on domestic security.

You just mentioned one of the main reasons. We have a department of DEFENSE that failed to prevent 9/11, and largely generated the backlash against the United States.

No duh, so why dump a sh*t load more money into the same agency and hope they handle it better next time rather then create a fresh new one whose sole purpose is to make sure something of that scale doesnt happen again (and so far it hasnt)

The government never misses a beat to expand its power and workforce. Adding 230,000 non-productive employees whose salaries are paid by productive American workers, generating a net-loss in economic productivity is another thing.

Its purely your opinion that they are non productive and those employees actually pay taxes too. This isnt like people on welfare where we pay them and then they dont pay taxes, these employees pay taxes just like anyone else not on welfare.

Establishment of Transportation Safety Authority, 2001
I dont see anything wrong with the TSA either and im sure that all non-conspiracy theorists also dont see anything wrong with them and would maybe even agree that they get a bum rap for the actions of a very small minority of TSA officers.

So because the US government wants to go around the world playing policeman, millions have be patted down, genitals groped, and severely inconvenienced in an airport by government employees?

Quit trying to impersonate Geo and just think rationally. Millions and millions of travelers go through the TSA and do not have to get a pat down or groped or violated. Its shoes off, step through a metal detector, get your suitcase that went through the x-ray right next to you and move on to your flight. Thats how it is for a vast majority of people in the US and you know very well that im right. Youre categorizing an entire agency based on a dozen of the worst cases their employees have committed when they didnt have to which is beyond unfair to them. The TSA isnt perfect but they do a good job in making sure people dont smuggle bombs or narcotics onto airlines, even if a few of them do go overboard once in a while.

Evil begets evil. This is just another example. Airlines can provide their own security

Based on what evidence? Airlines nickel and dime passengers in just about any way they can already just to be profitable so if they had to manage their own security then it would be sh*tty beyond belief, a lot more airlines would be compromised, and if the government forced airlines to maintain a strong security then it would be similar to the TSA except the airlines would foot the bill and possibly drive themselves into bankruptcy.

and without the US government blowing people's families to pieces across the globe, the threat would be substantially reduced.

And what are the chances of that? (answer is zero) the US is always going to be screwing something up in the middle east whether we like it or not (and believe me, I dont like it either). But we cant let airlines handle security and hope that the US just suddenly stops f*cking around in the Middle East at the same time so that people try to get past airport security, the US simply wont stop

Federal establishment of State and Local Fusion Centers, 2004
I also dont see anything wrong with fusing two agencies together to accomplish the same job they had in the first place.

On the de facto broken system, I agree with you.

So then why are you listing it like its a bad thing?

John Warner Defense Authorization Act (H.R. 5122) 2007
That was one small portion of the bill and it was meant to help the governmetn carry out Martial Law (something that almost never happens ever) In case state governments are incapacitated or unable to keep order.

Eh, it's not as shitty as some other pieces of legislation. The use of such martial law or national guard deployments have resulted in killing non-violent protesters, so I'm not really for it, or for paying for it.

True but lets face it, the last time martial law was really used on a national scale it was either during race riots or vietnam war protests in the 1970's. Both people and the government have come a long way from that so this legislation isnt going to be used almost at all since this martial law is rarely implemented, and also because this law only comes into effect when state governments are beyond crippled to restore order via the national guard, which has never happened yet.

Spy-ware in Home Appliances, 2012
I call bullsh*t on this one since the only article I could find about this came from infowars.

I found over 1,800, but the evidence from several was not very good.

Can you find the legislation that at least authorizes spy-ware in household appliances?

Executive Order " Food Resources, 2012
I didnt find anything authorizing any of that in the actual law shown in the link below.

It's not like the government has to get authorization for half the sh!t they do; the whole system is based on organized theft.

You cant just make sh*t up and then claim "well it doesnt have to be in there for the government to give themselves the power to do it".
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imabench
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10/14/2012 1:21:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/14/2012 12:25:27 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 10/13/2012 5:54:30 PM, imabench wrote:
At 10/13/2012 6:44:31 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:

DHS Purchases Enough Ammunition to Eliminate Entire US Population, 2012
They use those for training new officers, and considering they employ a lot of officers, it means they need a sh*t load of bullets to keep training them. They arent planning for WWIII so just relax.

NO YOU RELAX MAN! IT'S THE AMERICAN GENOCIDE PROPHESIED BY JOHN D. ROCKEFELLER AND INFOWARS!!! I think that policy just amplifies the failure of the Department of Defense: We have the most well-armed, well-equipped, most technologically advanced military in the world, but it wasn't enough? Why doesn't the political class stop killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people in the Middle East, and pursue policies of trade and diplomacy, and see where that gets us.

WSA these ammunition purchases dont have anything to do with soldiers in the Middle East, they go towards the training of guards for embassies all around the world, training of police guards and security guards at the actual compounds here in the US, and they even just claim these vast ammo stockpiles because other agencies dont need them and they just want to claim it so they dont have to buy more from the government....

President Obama"s Assassination List, 2012
I see nothing wrong with this since you seem to be looking over a few key details.

I agree that there's nothing wrong with killing thousands of innocents, and causing intense psychological strain on almost a million people, but I'm over-looking details. K.

Geez youre a drama queen. If you look at what I actually underlines this entire thing you brought up is isolated to no more then 3 countries in the Middle East, and is simply a list of terrorists who should be killed once their location is known because of their importance to Al-Qaeda. I dont approve of people near these terrorists getting killed even though they were innocent either so stop claiming that I do a**hole.

US Military to Launch Armed Drones Domestically, 2012

Geo tried selling this same sh*t in another thread. The NDAA is projecting that UP TO 30,000 drones could be in the air, at the end of the year 2020. Also, if that many do get deployed ,they are mostly meant simply to be eyes in the sky for local authorities to coordinate with, there is absolutely no evidence to suggest they will be outfitted with giant missiles and used to fire on Americans.

And that itself doesn't bother you?

No it doesnt. There are already security cameras in buildings that watch my every move, and in some cities popular tourist attractions and public squares are also under video surveillance by local authorities as well, so why should I be concerned that there might be another security camera watching public places from a thousand feet high?

Rationalizing bizarre and Orwellian policies doesn't make you an intellectual, it makes you complicit in your own own rights usurpation.

Sensationalizing normal policies doesnt make you a man of great foresight either, it just makes you look like your raising a big deal over nothing, which is something that the news does every day.

And keep in mind, this is less than half of the list.
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OberHerr
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10/14/2012 5:19:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
LOLOL at not knowing what an actual police state looks like.
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jat93
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10/14/2012 6:22:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/14/2012 5:19:38 PM, OberHerr wrote:
LOLOL at not knowing what an actual police state looks like.

That's just the thing though. It doesn't have to LOOK like a police state in order to be a police state, and police states can exist that aren't blatant like 1984. Or, it can be blatant, but the propaganda system can be so successful that it counteracts the blatant things and makes the members of the society generally tolerant or appreciative of the police state measures, i.e. "sure this may be an infringement on my liberties but it's necessary to gain some security from _____ (insert scary foreign scapegoats here, be it the Soviet Union/commies or Al Qaeda or whatever)".

Here's some proof that America is a police state, if you're interested.

The following two paragraphs are from this article: http://www.counterpunch.org...

During his election campaign in 2008, Barack Obama promised to close the prison at Guant"namo, repeal the Patriot Act of 2001 that authorised new domestic surveillance, and protect military and intelligence whistleblowers against government reprisals. It was a pledge to rein in much of the security state apparatus that had been expanded after 11 September 2001 into an enormous, often unaccountable, bureaucracy.

But four years later, Guant"namo is still open, its military tribunals have resumed and Obama has approved the renewal of the Patriot Act. His Department of Justice has launched six Espionage Act prosecutions of security whistleblowers " twice as many as all previous administrations combined. Also the no-fly list of individuals prohibited from air travel " a designation that is often arbitrary and always opaque " has more than doubled since last year, to 21,000. In 2011, the president signed the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), which gives the federal government the power to imprison indefinitely US citizens accused of terrorism, a major erosion of habeas corpus rights. The administration has authorised the assassination of an unknown number of US citizens abroad who are not directly engaged in armed hostilities but who have been designated as "terrorists", with minimal legal process. Last September, American drones in Yemen hunted and killed radical cleric Anwar al-Awlaki and Al-Qaida propagandist Samir Khan; two weeks later, a separate American drone strike killed Awlaki"s 16-year old son: all were US citizens. Obama has also radically expanded the ostensibly "secret" killing of non-US citizens by drone strikes in Pakistan, Yemen and Somalia; as many as a third of the victims are non-combatant civilians, according to the Bureau of Investigative Journalism.

Also refer to the following article entitled "10 Reasons the U.S. Is No Longer The Land Of The Free" written by a law professor at George Washington University -http://www.washingtonpost.com...

Here are the 10 reasons (just the titles, not the explanations or sources):
- assassinations of U.S. citizens
- indefinite detention
- arbitrary justice
- warrant-less searches
- secret evidence
- war crimes
- secret court
- immunity from judicial review
- continual monitoring of citizens
- extraordinary renditions

The better question would be, given all these well documented facts, how is the U.S. government NOT a police state? You've got to be living under a rock or just so biased that you're blind or insane, if you truly think, after considering all the evidence, that the U.S. is not a police state.
OberHerr
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10/14/2012 6:38:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/14/2012 6:22:50 PM, jat93 wrote:
At 10/14/2012 5:19:38 PM, OberHerr wrote:
LOLOL at not knowing what an actual police state looks like.

That's just the thing though. It doesn't have to LOOK like a police state in order to be a police state, and police states can exist that aren't blatant like 1984. Or, it can be blatant, but the propaganda system can be so successful that it counteracts the blatant things and makes the members of the society generally tolerant or appreciative of the police state measures, i.e. "sure this may be an infringement on my liberties but it's necessary to gain some security from _____ (insert scary foreign scapegoats here, be it the Soviet Union/commies or Al Qaeda or whatever)".

Here's some proof that America is a police state, if you're interested.

The following two paragraphs are from this article: http://www.counterpunch.org...

During his election campaign in 2008, Barack Obama promised to close the prison at Guant"namo, repeal the Patriot Act of 2001 that authorised new domestic surveillance, and protect military and intelligence whistleblowers against government reprisals. It was a pledge to rein in much of the security state apparatus that had been expanded after 11 September 2001 into an enormous, often unaccountable, bureaucracy.

But four years later, Guant"namo is still open, its military tribunals have resumed and Obama has approved the renewal of the Patriot Act. His Department of Justice has launched six Espionage Act prosecutions of security whistleblowers " twice as many as all previous administrations combined. Also the no-fly list of individuals prohibited from air travel " a designation that is often arbitrary and always opaque " has more than doubled since last year, to 21,000. In 2011, the president signed the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), which gives the federal government the power to imprison indefinitely US citizens accused of terrorism, a major erosion of habeas corpus rights. The administration has authorised the assassination of an unknown number of US citizens abroad who are not directly engaged in armed hostilities but who have been designated as "terrorists", with minimal legal process. Last September, American drones in Yemen hunted and killed radical cleric Anwar al-Awlaki and Al-Qaida propagandist Samir Khan; two weeks later, a separate American drone strike killed Awlaki"s 16-year old son: all were US citizens. Obama has also radically expanded the ostensibly "secret" killing of non-US citizens by drone strikes in Pakistan, Yemen and Somalia; as many as a third of the victims are non-combatant civilians, according to the Bureau of Investigative Journalism.

Also refer to the following article entitled "10 Reasons the U.S. Is No Longer The Land Of The Free" written by a law professor at George Washington University -http://www.washingtonpost.com...

Here are the 10 reasons (just the titles, not the explanations or sources):
- assassinations of U.S. citizens
- indefinite detention
- arbitrary justice
- warrant-less searches
- secret evidence
- war crimes
- secret court
- immunity from judicial review
- continual monitoring of citizens
- extraordinary renditions

The better question would be, given all these well documented facts, how is the U.S. government NOT a police state? You've got to be living under a rock or just so biased that you're blind or insane, if you truly think, after considering all the evidence, that the U.S. is not a police state.

Having the capacity to possibly become a police state =/= police state

Many states can become a police state, few are.
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Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

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