Total Posts:19|Showing Posts:1-19
Jump to topic:

Third Party Debate Gains Traction

GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/16/2012 10:40:45 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
There will be a debate between Gary Johnson, Jill Stein, Vigil Goode, and Rocky Anderson. Barack Obama and Mitt Romney are tentative but are likely to chicken out. Since Romney thinks Johnson is a threat, why doesn't he squash him?

This debate will have a big name moderator that is soon to be announced. There will also be political correspondents, celebrities, and possibly Jesse Ventura making an appearance.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Microsuck
Posts: 1,562
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/16/2012 11:13:00 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/16/2012 10:40:45 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
There will be a debate between Gary Johnson, Jill Stein, Vigil Goode, and Rocky Anderson. Barack Obama and Mitt Romney are tentative but are likely to chicken out. Since Romney thinks Johnson is a threat, why doesn't he squash him?

This debate will have a big name moderator that is soon to be announced. There will also be political correspondents, celebrities, and possibly Jesse Ventura making an appearance.



Finally someone is doing the job that the PResidential debate comission should have done!
Wall of Fail

Devil worship much? - SD
Newsflash: Atheists do not believe in the Devil! - Me
Newsflash: I doesnt matter if you think you do or not.....You do - SD

"you [imabench] are very naive and so i do not consider your opinions as having any merit. you must still be in highschool" - falconduler
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/16/2012 11:29:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
The third party candidates propose uncompromising visions. We are at point A, and nothing is satisfactory short of an immediate complete leap to point B. That's indulging a fantasy. It won't happen and cannot happen. It gives followers the comfort of feeling morally superior to everyone who gets their hands dirty by trying to move the country to a better place in a practical way.

Sometimes a third party comes up with a good idea that can be implemented independent of their whole vision and it catches fire. That's a benefit, but it's small.

The third parties do not deserve more attention than they are getting.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/16/2012 11:49:58 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/16/2012 11:29:19 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
The third party candidates propose uncompromising visions. We are at point A, and nothing is satisfactory short of an immediate complete leap to point B. That's indulging a fantasy. It won't happen and cannot happen.

So it's a fantasy and huge leap to:

Stop bombing children in Yemen with drones.
Stop borrowing money.
Stop giving foreign aid.
Stop spying on Americans.
Stop funding Al-Queda terrorists.
Repeal the Patriot Act.
Not assassinate and indefinitely detain Americans.
Stop inflating the currency and printing trillions out of thin air.
Stop funding aggressive wars, military, and empire building.

That's all a fantasy? GET OUT. You say a nightmare is realistic and practical, but a normal reality with a free and prosperous society is an undoable fantasy?

It doesn't require much to accomplish these things, it simply requires someone to make the RIGHT DECISION once theyre in office.

It gives followers the comfort of feeling morally superior to everyone who gets their hands dirty by trying to move the country to a better place in a practical way.

Sometimes a third party comes up with a good idea that can be implemented independent of their whole vision and it catches fire. That's a benefit, but it's small.

The third parties do not deserve more attention than they are getting.

Ron Paul was once the Libertarian candidate. Now he has one of the largest movements in the world. Gary Johnson is the continuation of that movement. Ralph Nader had a lot of traction. Ross Perot had huge numbers and voter turnouts.

You know why Third party appears insignificant and gets no support? Because there is an active attempt to keep them out of the picture by the media and the debate commission so the voters never see them in the spotlight.

.
.
.
.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/16/2012 12:20:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/16/2012 11:49:58 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 10/16/2012 11:29:19 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
The third party candidates propose uncompromising visions. We are at point A, and nothing is satisfactory short of an immediate complete leap to point B. That's indulging a fantasy. It won't happen and cannot happen.

So it's a fantasy and huge leap to:

Stop bombing children in Yemen with drones.
Stop borrowing money.
Stop giving foreign aid.
Stop spying on Americans.
Stop funding Al-Queda terrorists.
Repeal the Patriot Act.
Not assassinate and indefinitely detain Americans.
Stop inflating the currency and printing trillions out of thin air.
Stop funding aggressive wars, military, and empire building.

That's all a fantasy? GET OUT. You say a nightmare is realistic and practical, but a normal reality with a free and prosperous society is an undoable fantasy?

It doesn't require much to accomplish these things, it simply requires someone to make the RIGHT DECISION once theyre in office.

Interesting. Explain how a president repeals legislation.


It gives followers the comfort of feeling morally superior to everyone who gets their hands dirty by trying to move the country to a better place in a practical way.

Sometimes a third party comes up with a good idea that can be implemented independent of their whole vision and it catches fire. That's a benefit, but it's small.

The third parties do not deserve more attention than they are getting.

Ron Paul was once the Libertarian candidate. Now he has one of the largest movements in the world. Gary Johnson is the continuation of that movement. Ralph Nader had a lot of traction. Ross Perot had huge numbers and voter turnouts.

You know why Third party appears insignificant and gets no support? Because there is an active attempt to keep them out of the picture by the media and the debate commission so the voters never see them in the spotlight.







.
.
.
.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/16/2012 12:51:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/16/2012 12:20:06 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 10/16/2012 11:49:58 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
So it's a fantasy and huge leap to:

Stop bombing children in Yemen with drones.
Stop borrowing money.
Stop giving foreign aid.
Stop spying on Americans.
Stop funding Al-Queda terrorists.
Repeal the Patriot Act.
Not assassinate and indefinitely detain Americans.
Stop inflating the currency and printing trillions out of thin air.
Stop funding aggressive wars, military, and empire building.

That's all a fantasy? GET OUT. You say a nightmare is realistic and practical, but a normal reality with a free and prosperous society is an undoable fantasy?

It doesn't require much to accomplish these things, it simply requires someone to make the RIGHT DECISION once theyre in office.

Interesting. Explain how a president repeals legislation.

Of all that I mentioned, only the Patriot Act was listed for repeal. You can let the Patriot Act expire like Obama refused to do.
If you want it gone before expiration, you speak to the mass media and start naming names of the individual Congressman who refuse to stop spying on you with their support for the Patriot Act. You tell the American people to turn against Congress if they don't vote against the Patriot Act and that all Congressman who support 1984 surveillance dictatorship will not be reelected.

If that doesn't work, as a Libertarian Totalitarian I support using an executive order to strike down the fascist law.

.
.
.
.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/16/2012 1:56:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/16/2012 12:51:38 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 10/16/2012 12:20:06 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 10/16/2012 11:49:58 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
So it's a fantasy and huge leap to:

Stop bombing children in Yemen with drones.
Stop borrowing money.
Stop giving foreign aid.
Stop spying on Americans.
Stop funding Al-Queda terrorists.
Repeal the Patriot Act.
Not assassinate and indefinitely detain Americans.
Stop inflating the currency and printing trillions out of thin air.
Stop funding aggressive wars, military, and empire building.

That's all a fantasy? GET OUT. You say a nightmare is realistic and practical, but a normal reality with a free and prosperous society is an undoable fantasy?

It doesn't require much to accomplish these things, it simply requires someone to make the RIGHT DECISION once theyre in office.

Interesting. Explain how a president repeals legislation.

Of all that I mentioned, only the Patriot Act was listed for repeal. You can let the Patriot Act expire like Obama refused to do.

Which isn't repealing the law. Certainly Obama can refuse to sign extensions utilizing his veto power, but that can be overruled. But that is only prevention of future law, not the repealing of existing laws.

If you want it gone before expiration, you speak to the mass media and start naming names of the individual Congressman who refuse to stop spying on you with their support for the Patriot Act. You tell the American people to turn against Congress if they don't vote against the Patriot Act and that all Congressman who support 1984 surveillance dictatorship will not be reelected.

Which may or may not result in congress repealing the law. It's hardly something a President can directly control or enact. If any Presidential candidate promised to repeal a law, he'd be talking out of his a$$. Regardless, I'd certainly qualify this series of events as being a "huge leap" delving into the realm of fantasy.


If that doesn't work, as a Libertarian Totalitarian I support using an executive order to strike down the fascist law.

Certainly he could use an executive order that contradicts the policies of the Patriot act, but it wouldn't, in fact, stop it from being a law passed by congress. It would most likley create a Constitutional crisis depending on the rule of the Supreme Court to clarify.

In the end, it is not so simply as "repeal the Patriot Act." It is a pet peeve of mine when Presidents and Presidential candidates talk about enacting/repealing legislation as if it was so simple. It's not.




.
.
.
.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/16/2012 2:43:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
@dafterman

You are missing the overall point. First of all, if repealing legislation is a fantasy then RoyLatham supports the Romney-repeal-Obamacare-fantasy.

Secondly, my point is that Gary Johnson or Ralph Nader would have never enacted the Patriot Act in the first place. If Nader was elected in 2000 we would have no Patriot Act. So even if eliminating certain legislation is a pipedream, at least they oppose the legislation and generate mass disdain for such legislation. It's not about whether they have the ability to repeal it or not. It's about, will they support, enforce it, strengthen it, and extend it. Even Ron Paul admitted he wouldn't be able to repeal Obamacare, but at least he stands against it.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/16/2012 2:47:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
@RoyLatham

If third party is nothing but pipedream as opposed to major parties, then why does third party Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson have the same views as Republican Ron Paul and Rand Paul and Democrat Denis Kucinich?
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/16/2012 3:42:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/16/2012 11:29:19 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
The third party candidates propose uncompromising visions. We are at point A, and nothing is satisfactory short of an immediate complete leap to point B. That's indulging a fantasy. It won't happen and cannot happen. It gives followers the comfort of feeling morally superior to everyone who gets their hands dirty by trying to move the country to a better place in a practical way.

Sometimes a third party comes up with a good idea that can be implemented independent of their whole vision and it catches fire. That's a benefit, but it's small.

The third parties do not deserve more attention than they are getting.

This is awesome. You are so dreamy.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

https://i.imgflip.com...
CrazyPerson
Posts: 1,114
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/16/2012 4:09:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
It seems like so many people don't try to match up their personal views with the views of a presidential candidate (be it red, blue, or "otherwise"), rather they prefer to make grandiose assumptions about the American people as a whole. The fact is, if the media blew up Ron Paul instead of Mitt Romney, then I hypocritically assume he would be a highly regarded candidate in the face of the public... period.
But we try to pretend, you see, that the external world exists altogether independently of us.
- - - Watts
The moralist is the person who tells people that they ought to be unselfish, when they still feel like egos, and his efforts are always and invariably futile.
- - - Watts
DanT
Posts: 5,693
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/16/2012 4:15:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/16/2012 12:51:38 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 10/16/2012 12:20:06 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 10/16/2012 11:49:58 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
So it's a fantasy and huge leap to:

Stop bombing children in Yemen with drones.
Pretty sure children are not the intended targets
Stop borrowing money.
Legislative power
Stop giving foreign aid.
Legislative power
Stop spying on Americans.
current (unconstitutional) statutes permits executive agencies to do this
Stop funding Al-Queda terrorists.
legislative power
Repeal the Patriot Act.
legislative power
Not assassinate and indefinitely detain Americans.
current (unconstitutional) statutes permits this
Stop inflating the currency and printing trillions out of thin air.
legislative power
Stop funding aggressive wars, military, and empire building.

legislative power
That's all a fantasy? GET OUT. You say a nightmare is realistic and practical, but a normal reality with a free and prosperous society is an undoable fantasy?

It doesn't require much to accomplish these things, it simply requires someone to make the RIGHT DECISION once theyre in office.

Interesting. Explain how a president repeals legislation.

Of all that I mentioned, only the Patriot Act was listed for repeal.
Not true, all of that is legislative. The President cannot act without consent from the legislature. The legislature makes rules for the government, permits appropriations from the treasury, declares war, permits the coining of money, regulates the value of money, and so on.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
CrazyPerson
Posts: 1,114
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/16/2012 4:30:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/16/2012 4:15:53 PM, DanT wrote:
At 10/16/2012 12:51:38 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 10/16/2012 12:20:06 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 10/16/2012 11:49:58 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
So it's a fantasy and huge leap to:

Stop bombing children in Yemen with drones.
Pretty sure children are not the intended targets
Stop borrowing money.
Legislative power
Stop giving foreign aid.
Legislative power
Stop spying on Americans.
current (unconstitutional) statutes permits executive agencies to do this
Stop funding Al-Queda terrorists.
legislative power
Repeal the Patriot Act.
legislative power
Not assassinate and indefinitely detain Americans.
current (unconstitutional) statutes permits this
Stop inflating the currency and printing trillions out of thin air.
legislative power
Stop funding aggressive wars, military, and empire building.

legislative power
That's all a fantasy? GET OUT. You say a nightmare is realistic and practical, but a normal reality with a free and prosperous society is an undoable fantasy?

It doesn't require much to accomplish these things, it simply requires someone to make the RIGHT DECISION once theyre in office.

Interesting. Explain how a president repeals legislation.

Of all that I mentioned, only the Patriot Act was listed for repeal.
Not true, all of that is legislative. The President cannot act without consent from the legislature. The legislature makes rules for the government, permits appropriations from the treasury, declares war, permits the coining of money, regulates the value of money, and so on.

Ballot access requires endorsements ultimately by the President.
But we try to pretend, you see, that the external world exists altogether independently of us.
- - - Watts
The moralist is the person who tells people that they ought to be unselfish, when they still feel like egos, and his efforts are always and invariably futile.
- - - Watts
CrazyPerson
Posts: 1,114
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/16/2012 4:32:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
As research is made farther and farther down the line, the president seemingly has a good amount of power to influence who become part of the legislative branch.
But we try to pretend, you see, that the external world exists altogether independently of us.
- - - Watts
The moralist is the person who tells people that they ought to be unselfish, when they still feel like egos, and his efforts are always and invariably futile.
- - - Watts
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,726
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/16/2012 4:35:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I think I'm going to vote for Snoop Lion.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/16/2012 4:46:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Lmao @ Congress having that much power. Obama just sent troops into Jordan recently without even telling Congress.

Obama Making Key Decisions Without Congress
http://www.theblaze.com...

Obama's jobs bill, Obama's signing of ACTA, Obama's illegal immigrant immunity program, bombs to Libya, extended Patriot Act despite fillibuster. No Congress.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/16/2012 4:52:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/16/2012 4:15:53 PM, DanT wrote:
At 10/16/2012 12:51:38 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 10/16/2012 12:20:06 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 10/16/2012 11:49:58 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
So it's a fantasy and huge leap to:
Stop bombing children in Yemen with drones.
Pretty sure children are not the intended targets
Stop borrowing money.
Legislative power
Stop giving foreign aid.
Legislative power
Stop spying on Americans.
current (unconstitutional) statutes permits executive agencies to do this
Stop funding Al-Queda terrorists.
legislative power
Repeal the Patriot Act.
legislative power
Not assassinate and indefinitely detain Americans.
current (unconstitutional) statutes permits this
Stop inflating the currency and printing trillions out of thin air.
legislative power
Stop funding aggressive wars, military, and empire building.

legislative power

Wow. I can't believe a Romney-zombie would completely pardon Obama from all responsibility! Obama didn't do TARP bailouts, Obama didn't send us to war, Obama didn't extend the Patriot Act, Obama did nothing according to DanT.

.
.
.
.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
DanT
Posts: 5,693
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/16/2012 5:12:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/16/2012 4:52:40 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 10/16/2012 4:15:53 PM, DanT wrote:
At 10/16/2012 12:51:38 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 10/16/2012 12:20:06 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 10/16/2012 11:49:58 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
So it's a fantasy and huge leap to:
Stop bombing children in Yemen with drones.
Pretty sure children are not the intended targets
Stop borrowing money.
Legislative power
Stop giving foreign aid.
Legislative power
Stop spying on Americans.
current (unconstitutional) statutes permits executive agencies to do this
Stop funding Al-Queda terrorists.
legislative power
Repeal the Patriot Act.
legislative power
Not assassinate and indefinitely detain Americans.
current (unconstitutional) statutes permits this
Stop inflating the currency and printing trillions out of thin air.
legislative power
Stop funding aggressive wars, military, and empire building.

legislative power

Wow. I can't believe a Romney-zombie would completely pardon Obama from all responsibility! Obama didn't do TARP bailouts, Obama didn't send us to war, Obama didn't extend the Patriot Act, Obama did nothing according to DanT.


.
.
.
.
Not what I said. I said the president can't act without congressional consent, not that the president has 0 responsibility.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/16/2012 5:28:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Gary Johnson doesn't need Congressional approval to refrain from enacting laws and refrain from going to war. "Hey Congress, can I NOT send bombs to Pakistan?" "Can I refuse to sign an extension of the Patriot Act?" C'mon.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat