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Clinton Surplus

Contra
Posts: 3,941
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10/28/2012 12:09:44 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Yes.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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10/28/2012 12:14:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 12:09:44 AM, Contra wrote:
Yes.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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10/28/2012 12:15:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 12:12:41 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:09:44 AM, Contra wrote:
Yes.

Seriously?

Yes.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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10/28/2012 12:20:31 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 12:15:34 AM, Contra wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:12:41 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:09:44 AM, Contra wrote:
Yes.

Seriously?

Yes.

Then how do you explain the federal debt going up every single year?
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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10/28/2012 12:28:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 12:20:31 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:15:34 AM, Contra wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:12:41 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:09:44 AM, Contra wrote:
Yes.

Seriously?

Yes.

Then how do you explain the federal debt going up every single year?

Prove it.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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10/28/2012 12:30:23 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 12:28:26 AM, Contra wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:20:31 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:15:34 AM, Contra wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:12:41 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:09:44 AM, Contra wrote:
Yes.

Seriously?

Yes.

Then how do you explain the federal debt going up every single year?

Prove it.

http://www.skymachines.com...
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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10/28/2012 12:33:46 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 12:28:26 AM, Contra wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:20:31 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:15:34 AM, Contra wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:12:41 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:09:44 AM, Contra wrote:
Yes.

Seriously?

Yes.

Then how do you explain the federal debt going up every single year?

Prove it.

http://www.whitehouse.gov...
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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10/28/2012 12:34:28 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 12:30:23 AM, lewis20 wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:28:26 AM, Contra wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:20:31 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:15:34 AM, Contra wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:12:41 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:09:44 AM, Contra wrote:
Yes.

Seriously?

Yes.

Then how do you explain the federal debt going up every single year?

Prove it.

http://www.skymachines.com...

"From 1999 to 2000 the national debt did decrease." PWNED!
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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10/28/2012 12:35:41 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 12:33:46 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:28:26 AM, Contra wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:20:31 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:15:34 AM, Contra wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:12:41 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:09:44 AM, Contra wrote:
Yes.

Seriously?

Yes.

Then how do you explain the federal debt going up every single year?

Prove it.

http://www.whitehouse.gov...

Your graph shows that "gross federal debt" did decrease.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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10/28/2012 12:35:43 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 12:34:28 AM, Contra wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:30:23 AM, lewis20 wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:28:26 AM, Contra wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:20:31 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:15:34 AM, Contra wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:12:41 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:09:44 AM, Contra wrote:
Yes.

Seriously?

Yes.

Then how do you explain the federal debt going up every single year?

Prove it.

http://www.skymachines.com...

"From 1999 to 2000 the national debt did decrease." PWNED!

That site is wrong.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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10/28/2012 12:37:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 12:35:41 AM, Contra wrote:
Your graph shows that "gross federal debt" did decrease.

???

1992-4,001,787
1993-4,351,044
1994-4,643,307
1995-4,920,586
1996-5,181,465
1997-5,369,206
1998-5,478,189
1999-5,605,523
2000-5,628,700
2001-5,769,881
2002-6,198,401
2003-6,760,014
2004-7,354,657

Where?
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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10/28/2012 12:39:22 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 12:37:07 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:35:41 AM, Contra wrote:
Your graph shows that "gross federal debt" did decrease.

???


1992-4,001,787
1993-4,351,044
1994-4,643,307
1995-4,920,586
1996-5,181,465
1997-5,369,206
1998-5,478,189
1999-5,605,523
2000-5,628,700
2001-5,769,881
2002-6,198,401
2003-6,760,014
2004-7,354,657

Where?

That's just the federal debt, not counting the other measures. Scroll to the right, under the "gross federal debt", and the measure in 1999 to 2000 goes from 60.9% of GDP to 57.3% of GDP. Explanation?
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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10/28/2012 12:43:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 12:39:22 AM, Contra wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:37:07 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:35:41 AM, Contra wrote:
Your graph shows that "gross federal debt" did decrease.

???


1992-4,001,787
1993-4,351,044
1994-4,643,307
1995-4,920,586
1996-5,181,465
1997-5,369,206
1998-5,478,189
1999-5,605,523
2000-5,628,700
2001-5,769,881
2002-6,198,401
2003-6,760,014
2004-7,354,657

Where?

That's just the federal debt, not counting the other measures. Scroll to the right, under the "gross federal debt", and the measure in 1999 to 2000 goes from 60.9% of GDP to 57.3% of GDP. Explanation?

Gross federal debt as a % of GDP isn't the same as gross federal debt.

That means GDP grew. The debt still went up.

If you have a surplus, the GROSS DEBT must go DOWN.

Please, just accept it as new knowledge, and don't keep pushing this idea that since the % of GDP went down, then the budget was balanced. Please. It's for your own good.

Seriously, you just got pwned, don't make it worse.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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10/28/2012 12:50:22 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 12:43:07 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:39:22 AM, Contra wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:37:07 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:35:41 AM, Contra wrote:
Your graph shows that "gross federal debt" did decrease.

???


1992-4,001,787
1993-4,351,044
1994-4,643,307
1995-4,920,586
1996-5,181,465
1997-5,369,206
1998-5,478,189
1999-5,605,523
2000-5,628,700
2001-5,769,881
2002-6,198,401
2003-6,760,014
2004-7,354,657

Where?

That's just the federal debt, not counting the other measures. Scroll to the right, under the "gross federal debt", and the measure in 1999 to 2000 goes from 60.9% of GDP to 57.3% of GDP. Explanation?

Gross federal debt as a % of GDP isn't the same as gross federal debt.

That means GDP grew. The debt still went up.

If you have a surplus, the GROSS DEBT must go DOWN.

Please, just accept it as new knowledge, and don't keep pushing this idea that since the % of GDP went down, then the budget was balanced. Please. It's for your own good.

Seriously, you just got pwned, don't make it worse.

http://www.factcheck.org...

"But even if we remove Social Security from the equation, there was a surplus of $1.9 billion in fiscal 1999 and $86.4 billion in fiscal 2000. So any way you count it, the federal budget was balanced and the deficit was erased, if only for a while."

Empirical evidence.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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10/28/2012 12:52:16 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 12:50:22 AM, Contra wrote:
http://www.factcheck.org...

"But even if we remove Social Security from the equation, there was a surplus of $1.9 billion in fiscal 1999 and $86.4 billion in fiscal 2000. So any way you count it, the federal budget was balanced and the deficit was erased, if only for a while."

Empirical evidence.

Wow... Ok. So, if there was a surplus of $86.4 billion in 2000, how did the federal debt grow?
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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10/28/2012 12:56:46 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 12:52:16 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:50:22 AM, Contra wrote:
http://www.factcheck.org...

"But even if we remove Social Security from the equation, there was a surplus of $1.9 billion in fiscal 1999 and $86.4 billion in fiscal 2000. So any way you count it, the federal budget was balanced and the deficit was erased, if only for a while."

Empirical evidence.

Wow... Ok. So, if there was a surplus of $86.4 billion in 2000, how did the federal debt grow?

I already told you, the gross federal debt as a percentage of GDP declined by 3.6% (from 60.9% of GDP in 1999 to 57.3% in 2000. This shows a decline in debt, or at least a decline in the relative size of debt compared to the economy.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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10/28/2012 12:57:57 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 12:56:46 AM, Contra wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:52:16 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:50:22 AM, Contra wrote:
http://www.factcheck.org...

"But even if we remove Social Security from the equation, there was a surplus of $1.9 billion in fiscal 1999 and $86.4 billion in fiscal 2000. So any way you count it, the federal budget was balanced and the deficit was erased, if only for a while."

Empirical evidence.

Wow... Ok. So, if there was a surplus of $86.4 billion in 2000, how did the federal debt grow?

I already told you, the gross federal debt as a percentage of GDP declined by 3.6% (from 60.9% of GDP in 1999 to 57.3% in 2000. This shows a decline in debt, or at least a decline in the relative size of debt compared to the economy.

I know.

But that doesn't show a decrease in debt. The debt still went up.

Remember, we NEVER were talking about debt relative to GDP. We were talking about debt.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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10/28/2012 1:00:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 12:57:57 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:56:46 AM, Contra wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:52:16 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:50:22 AM, Contra wrote:
http://www.factcheck.org...

"But even if we remove Social Security from the equation, there was a surplus of $1.9 billion in fiscal 1999 and $86.4 billion in fiscal 2000. So any way you count it, the federal budget was balanced and the deficit was erased, if only for a while."

Empirical evidence.

Wow... Ok. So, if there was a surplus of $86.4 billion in 2000, how did the federal debt grow?

I already told you, the gross federal debt as a percentage of GDP declined by 3.6% (from 60.9% of GDP in 1999 to 57.3% in 2000. This shows a decline in debt, or at least a decline in the relative size of debt compared to the economy.

I know.

But that doesn't show a decrease in debt. The debt still went up.

Remember, we NEVER were talking about debt relative to GDP. We were talking about debt.

Okay then, if we have shown that debt vs the economy indicates that debt has made up a lesser size of the economy (declined as a share of GDP), and we have agreed that in 1999 and 2000 the US had a balanced budget with a surplus, what is your explanation?
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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10/28/2012 1:03:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 1:00:14 AM, Contra wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:57:57 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:56:46 AM, Contra wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:52:16 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:50:22 AM, Contra wrote:
http://www.factcheck.org...

"But even if we remove Social Security from the equation, there was a surplus of $1.9 billion in fiscal 1999 and $86.4 billion in fiscal 2000. So any way you count it, the federal budget was balanced and the deficit was erased, if only for a while."

Empirical evidence.

Wow... Ok. So, if there was a surplus of $86.4 billion in 2000, how did the federal debt grow?

I already told you, the gross federal debt as a percentage of GDP declined by 3.6% (from 60.9% of GDP in 1999 to 57.3% in 2000. This shows a decline in debt, or at least a decline in the relative size of debt compared to the economy.

I know.

But that doesn't show a decrease in debt. The debt still went up.

Remember, we NEVER were talking about debt relative to GDP. We were talking about debt.

Okay then, if we have shown that debt vs the economy indicates that debt has made up a lesser size of the economy (declined as a share of GDP), and we have agreed that in 1999 and 2000 the US had a balanced budget with a surplus, what is your explanation?

I'm not saying we had a balanced budget. If we had a surplus, then why did our debt increase?
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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10/28/2012 1:05:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'll explain it for you Contra...

The government thinks that it can borrow money from itself, and it counts as free income.

But, if you take money from your savings account, you owe a debt to your savings account. When people say he had a surplus, they aren't counting the debt-value of the IOUs.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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10/28/2012 1:12:43 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 1:05:14 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
I'll explain it for you Contra...

The government thinks that it can borrow money from itself, and it counts as free income.

But, if you take money from your savings account, you owe a debt to your savings account. When people say he had a surplus, they aren't counting the debt-value of the IOUs.

So, where do you say this free money came from? The Fed? Regular people?
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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10/28/2012 1:15:16 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Both are correct. Pick whatever number suites your cause the best.

Personally, I think Contra's is more practical.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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10/28/2012 1:17:39 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 1:12:43 AM, Contra wrote:
At 10/28/2012 1:05:14 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
I'll explain it for you Contra...

The government thinks that it can borrow money from itself, and it counts as free income.

But, if you take money from your savings account, you owe a debt to your savings account. When people say he had a surplus, they aren't counting the debt-value of the IOUs.

So, where do you say this free money came from? The Fed? Regular people?

Think of it as taking money out of your savings account, 401k, etc... and pretending that it's income.

It comes mostly from the Social Security, Medicare, Military Retirement and Health Care, and Civil Service Retirement and Disability funds.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
JaxsonRaine
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10/28/2012 1:18:37 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 1:15:16 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Both are correct. Pick whatever number suites your cause the best.

Personally, I think Contra's is more practical.

Meh, I don't consider taking money away from one program and giving it to another as 'new' income. That's what you have to do to claim that he had a surplus.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
blameworthy
Posts: 431
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10/28/2012 4:58:00 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 12:52:16 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:50:22 AM, Contra wrote:
http://www.factcheck.org...

"But even if we remove Social Security from the equation, there was a surplus of $1.9 billion in fiscal 1999 and $86.4 billion in fiscal 2000. So any way you count it, the federal budget was balanced and the deficit was erased, if only for a while."

Empirical evidence.

Wow... Ok. So, if there was a surplus of $86.4 billion in 2000, how did the federal debt grow?

The debt has an interest rate.
JaxsonRaine
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10/28/2012 7:27:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 4:58:00 AM, blameworthy wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:52:16 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:50:22 AM, Contra wrote:
http://www.factcheck.org...

"But even if we remove Social Security from the equation, there was a surplus of $1.9 billion in fiscal 1999 and $86.4 billion in fiscal 2000. So any way you count it, the federal budget was balanced and the deficit was erased, if only for a while."

Empirical evidence.

Wow... Ok. So, if there was a surplus of $86.4 billion in 2000, how did the federal debt grow?

The debt has an interest rate.

And the interest is budgeted into each year's budget. If we pay a year's interest, and don't have to sell off any new debt to pay for deficit spending, then the federal debt should go down, not up.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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10/28/2012 10:45:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 12:28:26 AM, Contra wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:20:31 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:15:34 AM, Contra wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:12:41 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:09:44 AM, Contra wrote:
Yes.

Seriously?

Yes.

Then how do you explain the federal debt going up every single year?

Prove it.

Fiscal year 1998
Begin: $5,420,505,789,573.34
End: $5,526,193,008,897.62
Increase: $105,687,219,324.28

Fiscal year 1999
Begin: $5,540,570,493,226.32
End: $5,656,270,901,633.43
Increase: $115,700,408,407.11

Fiscal year 2000
Begin: $5,652,679,330,611.02
End: $5,674,178,209,886.86
Increase: $21,498,879,275.84

Fiscal year 2001
Begin: $5,661,548,045,674.53
End: $5,807,463,412,200.06
Increase: $145,915,366,525.53
http://www.treasurydirect.gov...
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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10/28/2012 10:52:45 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Deficit spending is not the only way to acquire debt. Just like someone can use their credit card and still have a balanced budget, so can the government issue bonds and still have a balanced budget.

For example;
Receipts: $100,000
Outlays: $90,000
-Appropriated Spending: $50,000
-Bonds: $40,000
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle