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Bias towards ethnicity over principles

keepinitreal
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10/28/2012 10:58:09 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Especially for minorities. When you see polls of 90 plus % of African Americans favoring President Obama over Mitt Romney, would be safe to conclude that a portion of the pollsters are voting for him because of his race? Of course you can argue this against Mitt Romney when you see more white male are voting for Romney than Obama but the difference is the huge discrepancies.
What are your thoughts on this?
JaxsonRaine
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10/28/2012 11:05:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Probably... Then you get people openly admitting that's the reason they are voting for him.

Of course, there are people NOT voting for him, only because he is black...
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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10/28/2012 11:21:12 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Black people more than likely vote Democrat usually anyways so I don't think the fact that Obama garners most of the black vote is necessarily indicative of them voting purely based on race. Of course I'm sure some people voted for him based off his race (as I'm sure others did the opposite) but I don't think it was likely a meaningful percentage. There are other reasons he won i.e., the dissatisfaction wit the Republican Party after Bush, the fact that he garnered a large percentage of the independent vote, etc. etc. I don't see why race has to be brought into the equation.
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JaxsonRaine
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10/28/2012 11:24:29 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 11:21:12 AM, socialpinko wrote:
Black people more than likely vote Democrat usually anyways so I don't think the fact that Obama garners most of the black vote is necessarily indicative of them voting purely based on race. Of course I'm sure some people voted for him based off his race (as I'm sure others did the opposite) but I don't think it was likely a meaningful percentage. There are other reasons he won i.e., the dissatisfaction wit the Republican Party after Bush, the fact that he garnered a large percentage of the independent vote, etc. etc. I don't see why race has to be brought into the equation.

The racial thing was more than you seem to think. Millions more minorities turned out to vote than normal.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
emospongebob527
Posts: 790
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10/28/2012 11:34:15 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 10:58:09 AM, keepinitreal wrote:
Especially for minorities. When you see polls of 90 plus % of African Americans favoring President Obama over Mitt Romney, would be safe to conclude that a portion of the pollsters are voting for him because of his race? Of course you can argue this against Mitt Romney when you see more white male are voting for Romney than Obama but the difference is the huge discrepancies.
What are your thoughts on this?

Probably, Blacks like to generate hates against whites because they that they are doing a favor for there segregated and enslaved ancestors.
"not to toot my own horn (it aint need no tooin if u know what im saying), but my writings on "viciousness: the one true viture (fancy spelling for virtue)" and my poem "A poem I wrote about DDO" put me in a class of my damn own. im just an UNRECONGIZED geniuse" -bananafana
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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10/28/2012 11:46:58 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 11:24:29 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 10/28/2012 11:21:12 AM, socialpinko wrote:
Black people more than likely vote Democrat usually anyways so I don't think the fact that Obama garners most of the black vote is necessarily indicative of them voting purely based on race. Of course I'm sure some people voted for him based off his race (as I'm sure others did the opposite) but I don't think it was likely a meaningful percentage. There are other reasons he won i.e., the dissatisfaction wit the Republican Party after Bush, the fact that he garnered a large percentage of the independent vote, etc. etc. I don't see why race has to be brought into the equation.

The racial thing was more than you seem to think. Millions more minorities turned out to vote than normal.

Um no. The race according to polls was just about tied up until September 2008 when Sarah Palin was picked as the VP nominee for the Republican party, and spoke at the RNC. After that, there was a drastic diversion in the polls that was sustained up until election day. (here's the graph: http://www.debate.org... )

So yeah, Palin had far more to do with it than race. Don't be a moron (if it wasn't already too late).
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
JaxsonRaine
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10/28/2012 11:52:50 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 11:46:58 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 10/28/2012 11:24:29 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 10/28/2012 11:21:12 AM, socialpinko wrote:
Black people more than likely vote Democrat usually anyways so I don't think the fact that Obama garners most of the black vote is necessarily indicative of them voting purely based on race. Of course I'm sure some people voted for him based off his race (as I'm sure others did the opposite) but I don't think it was likely a meaningful percentage. There are other reasons he won i.e., the dissatisfaction wit the Republican Party after Bush, the fact that he garnered a large percentage of the independent vote, etc. etc. I don't see why race has to be brought into the equation.

The racial thing was more than you seem to think. Millions more minorities turned out to vote than normal.

Um no. The race according to polls was just about tied up until September 2008 when Sarah Palin was picked as the VP nominee for the Republican party, and spoke at the RNC. After that, there was a drastic diversion in the polls that was sustained up until election day. (here's the graph: http://www.debate.org... )

So yeah, Palin had far more to do with it than race. Don't be a moron (if it wasn't already too late).

I'm not talking about overall polls.

I'm talking about minority voter turnout. It spiked drastically in 2008.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
blameworthy
Posts: 431
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10/28/2012 11:59:23 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 11:52:50 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 10/28/2012 11:46:58 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 10/28/2012 11:24:29 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 10/28/2012 11:21:12 AM, socialpinko wrote:
Black people more than likely vote Democrat usually anyways so I don't think the fact that Obama garners most of the black vote is necessarily indicative of them voting purely based on race. Of course I'm sure some people voted for him based off his race (as I'm sure others did the opposite) but I don't think it was likely a meaningful percentage. There are other reasons he won i.e., the dissatisfaction wit the Republican Party after Bush, the fact that he garnered a large percentage of the independent vote, etc. etc. I don't see why race has to be brought into the equation.

The racial thing was more than you seem to think. Millions more minorities turned out to vote than normal.

Um no. The race according to polls was just about tied up until September 2008 when Sarah Palin was picked as the VP nominee for the Republican party, and spoke at the RNC. After that, there was a drastic diversion in the polls that was sustained up until election day. (here's the graph: http://www.debate.org... )

So yeah, Palin had far more to do with it than race. Don't be a moron (if it wasn't already too late).

I'm not talking about overall polls.

I'm talking about minority voter turnout. It spiked drastically in 2008.

Since when did minorities only vote based on race? Why could the minorities not have liked the ideas he was presenting? Are minorities to stupid in your opinion to actually be able to think about the issues rather than simply voting based on race?

Analysis indicates that Obama lost a net total of 2% of the vote due to his race.

The percentage of youth who voted in 2008 also spiked drastically. I suppose all of America's college-aged youngsters must be racist and only voted because of his race and not because they liked his ideas.
JaxsonRaine
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10/28/2012 12:05:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 11:59:23 AM, blameworthy wrote:
Since when did minorities only vote based on race? Why could the minorities not have liked the ideas he was presenting? Are minorities to stupid in your opinion to actually be able to think about the issues rather than simply voting based on race?

I didn't say they only vote based on race, but don't you find it a tad bit convenient that the year Obama ran, we had a disproportionate turnout of minorities? Was Obama's message really all that different compared to other Democrats?

Analysis indicates that Obama lost a net total of 2% of the vote due to his race.

What analysis?

The percentage of youth who voted in 2008 also spiked drastically. I suppose all of America's college-aged youngsters must be racist and only voted because of his race and not because they liked his ideas.

Not all, but some definitely. You never heard any young people saying something about crossing racial lines, or being part of history, or something like that?
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
JaxsonRaine
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10/28/2012 12:06:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Typical... if you don't like Obama, you're a racist.

If someone voted for Obama 'because he's black' or 'to be part of history', that has nothing to do with race.

Was Samuel L. Jackson voting based on race?
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
000ike
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10/28/2012 12:23:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 12:06:33 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
Typical... if you don't like Obama, you're a racist.

Stop acting like a victim. No one even called you racist. On the contrary, the accusation was that YOU are calling all minorities racist by voting based on race,...because somehow, if minority turnout is high, it must have nothing to do with Obama's policies or appeal.

This is why I call you partisan hack. You have some moronic notions about Obama and the 2012 POTUS election.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
JaxsonRaine
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10/28/2012 12:42:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 12:23:52 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:06:33 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
Typical... if you don't like Obama, you're a racist.

Stop acting like a victim. No one even called you racist. On the contrary, the accusation was that YOU are calling all minorities racist by voting based on race,...because somehow, if minority turnout is high, it must have nothing to do with Obama's policies or appeal.

This is why I call you partisan hack. You have some moronic notions about Obama and the 2012 POTUS election.

Actually, yes, people have called me racist. Dozens of time.

I'm not calling all minorities racist. Lrn2strawman more. I'm calling the ones who voted for Obama because he is black racists... yes. And yes, they existed, you can't deny it. We can disagree as to the extent, but you can't deny it as people have admitted it, both before and after.

Call me a hack, you're a retard who can't even read what I post.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
000ike
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10/28/2012 12:57:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 12:42:47 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:23:52 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:06:33 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
Typical... if you don't like Obama, you're a racist.

Stop acting like a victim. No one even called you racist. On the contrary, the accusation was that YOU are calling all minorities racist by voting based on race,...because somehow, if minority turnout is high, it must have nothing to do with Obama's policies or appeal.

This is why I call you partisan hack. You have some moronic notions about Obama and the 2012 POTUS election.

Actually, yes, people have called me racist. Dozens of time.

I'm not calling all minorities racist. Lrn2strawman more. I'm calling the ones who voted for Obama because he is black racists... yes. And yes, they existed, you can't deny it. We can disagree as to the extent, but you can't deny it as people have admitted it, both before and after.

And Obama lost just as many if not more votes because of his race. You don't think he did? Look, I'm going to acknowledge that your point has some sound basis. Many people did in fact vote for Obama because of his race or because of excitement, being on the winning side of history. But it is shallow, ignorant, foolish, narrow-minded, and quite ludicrous to throw a tantrum on race bias only when you observe in Black people. Why aren't you asking about all the White southerners that didn't vote for President Obama? Why aren't you questioning their motives? Why is it that when a white person votes for a white candidate over the Black one, race bias doesn't even cross your mind? Why is Obama losing among white men? The reality is that Democracy is a sham...when you ultimately deconstruct electoral motivation you find that most people's base reasons are shallow and often based on looks or half-informed assumptions. Getting riled up about it only when the Black guy gets elected just makes you look like a small-minded hack.

Call me a hack, you're a retard who can't even read what I post.

You only degrade yourself by insulting others. Please do continue.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
JaxsonRaine
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10/28/2012 1:04:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 12:57:32 PM, 000ike wrote:
And Obama lost just as many if not more votes because of his race. You don't think he did? Look, I'm going to acknowledge that your point has some sound basis.

Ok

Many people did in fact vote for Obama because of his race or because of excitement, being on the winning side of history. But it is shallow, ignorant, foolish, narrow-minded, and quite ludicrous to throw a tantrum on race bias

A tantrum?

only when you observe in Black people. Why aren't you asking about all the White southerners that didn't vote for President Obama?

Yeah... why didn't I admit that people didn't vote for Obama because of his race? Seriously, that is shallow and horrible of me.

(Go look at the second post in this thread)

Why aren't you questioning their motives? Why is it that when a white person votes for a white candidate over the Black one, race bias doesn't even cross your mind? Why is Obama losing among white men? The reality is that Democracy is a sham...when you ultimately deconstruct electoral motivation you find that most people's base reasons are shallow and often based on looks or half-informed assumptions. Getting riled up about it only when the Black guy gets elected just makes you look like a small-minded hack.

Where did I get riled up about it? Where did I only talk about one side of it? Why then have I posted that I would support a voting test?

I know that lots of people, from all backgrounds, on all sides, vote for ignorant reasons. You're just trying to make up positions that I have never taken and attack me for them.

Do you know what that is called?

Call me a hack, you're a retard who can't even read what I post.

You only degrade yourself by insulting others. Please do continue.

Lol. Does it do the same thing when you insult others?
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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10/28/2012 1:07:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
if the 90% figure is right I think its hard to argue they weren't voting on ethnic lines, the alternative would be that 90% are ideologically similar, which I find harder to believe.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
000ike
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10/28/2012 1:39:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 1:07:55 PM, lewis20 wrote:
if the 90% figure is right I think its hard to argue they weren't voting on ethnic lines, the alternative would be that 90% are ideologically similar, which I find harder to believe.

Do you want me to give you the same speech I gave Jaxonraine? It's really starting to piss me off how selective and narrow your view is on ethnic bias. Why don't you question the fact that Obama is failing miserably among white men? Why don't you question the fact that no single state in the "deep south" voted for Obama? Why don't you address ethnic bias among white Americans? Why don't you acknowledge the overall superficiality of elections? Why is it that when the Black guy becomes president, THEN it dawns on you that voting motivations may be at times predicated on bias? Why don't you also consider all the votes the president lost because of his race?

Oh, and by the way, 94% of Black American voters voted for Bill Clinton... so put that in your pipe and smoke it (don't smoke pipes).
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
JaxsonRaine
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10/28/2012 1:42:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 1:39:23 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 10/28/2012 1:07:55 PM, lewis20 wrote:
if the 90% figure is right I think its hard to argue they weren't voting on ethnic lines, the alternative would be that 90% are ideologically similar, which I find harder to believe.

Do you want me to give you the same speech I gave Jaxonraine? It's really starting to piss me off how selective and narrow your view is on ethnic bias. Why don't you question the fact that Obama is failing miserably among white men? Why don't you question the fact that no single state in the "deep south" voted for Obama? Why don't you address ethnic bias among white Americans? Why don't you acknowledge the overall superficiality of elections? Why is it that when the Black guy becomes president, THEN it dawns on you that voting motivations may be at times predicated on bias? Why don't you also consider all the votes the president lost because of his race?

Oh, and by the way, 94% of Black American voters voted for Bill Clinton... so put that in your pipe and smoke it (don't smoke pipes).

Oh yes, give him the same speech you gave me. Ignore everything he said, make up things that he didn't say, and then rain down your fury of indignationalnessity furyocity of righteousness on him.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
lewis20
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10/28/2012 4:34:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 1:39:23 PM, 000ike wrote:
Why don't you question the fact that Obama is failing miserably among white men?

In 2008 Obama received 43% of the white vote. He received 95% of the Black vote.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
OberHerr
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10/28/2012 4:37:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 4:34:10 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 10/28/2012 1:39:23 PM, 000ike wrote:
Why don't you question the fact that Obama is failing miserably among white men?

In 2008 Obama received 43% of the white vote. He received 95% of the Black vote.

I fail to see how 43% is "failing miserably".....
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lewis20
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10/28/2012 4:37:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 1:39:23 PM, 000ike wrote:
Why don't you question the fact that no single state in the "deep south" voted for Obama?

The deep south is ideologically Conservative, as many regions in the United States can be ideologically divided.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
000ike
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10/28/2012 4:39:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 4:34:10 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 10/28/2012 1:39:23 PM, 000ike wrote:
Why don't you question the fact that Obama is failing miserably among white men?

In 2008 Obama received 43% of the white vote. He received 95% of the Black vote.

You don't look very convincing when you erase everything else, and respond to the only sentence you had a barely half-decent response to. Grasp at straws all you want, your original argument is still arrant nonsense.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
lewis20
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10/28/2012 4:40:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 1:39:23 PM, 000ike wrote:
Oh, and by the way, 94% of Black American voters voted for Bill Clinton.

Clinton received 83% of the Black vote, not 94%. Unless you can provide me with a source that says otherwise.

http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu...
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
000ike
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10/28/2012 4:40:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 4:37:53 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 10/28/2012 1:39:23 PM, 000ike wrote:
Why don't you question the fact that no single state in the "deep south" voted for Obama?

The deep south is ideologically Conservative, as many regions in the United States can be ideologically divided.

Minorities are ideologically liberal, as many subgroups in the United States can be ideologically divided.

Get out of here with that selective logic.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
lewis20
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10/28/2012 4:42:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 4:39:22 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 10/28/2012 4:34:10 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 10/28/2012 1:39:23 PM, 000ike wrote:
Why don't you question the fact that Obama is failing miserably among white men?

In 2008 Obama received 43% of the white vote. He received 95% of the Black vote.

You don't look very convincing when you erase everything else, and respond to the only sentence you had a barely half-decent response to. Grasp at straws all you want, your original argument is still arrant nonsense.

I'm simply breaking your ten question rambling post into smaller, more manageable points. But if that's your complaint about my posts, so be it.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
DetectableNinja
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10/28/2012 4:42:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Sorry, I gotta be THAT GUY and post unrelated to the point.

A pollster is someone who gets data FROM polls/surveys. They AREN'T people who partake in a poll.
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OberHerr
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10/28/2012 4:42:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 4:40:27 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 10/28/2012 4:37:53 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 10/28/2012 1:39:23 PM, 000ike wrote:
Why don't you question the fact that no single state in the "deep south" voted for Obama?

The deep south is ideologically Conservative, as many regions in the United States can be ideologically divided.

Minorities are ideologically liberal, as many subgroups in the United States can be ideologically divided.

Get out of here with that selective logic.

Except the massive turnout of minorities who didn't normally vote, which implies they came out there for something different than their ideologues, which clearly meant zilch to them in the elections beforehand.
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lewis20
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10/28/2012 4:43:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 4:40:27 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 10/28/2012 4:37:53 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 10/28/2012 1:39:23 PM, 000ike wrote:
Why don't you question the fact that no single state in the "deep south" voted for Obama?

The deep south is ideologically Conservative, as many regions in the United States can be ideologically divided.

Minorities are ideologically liberal, as many subgroups in the United States can be ideologically divided.

Get out of here with that selective logic.

Alright, that's all I needed to know, you think 94% of the voting Black Americans are simply ideologically similar.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
OberHerr
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10/28/2012 4:43:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 4:39:22 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 10/28/2012 4:34:10 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 10/28/2012 1:39:23 PM, 000ike wrote:
Why don't you question the fact that Obama is failing miserably among white men?

In 2008 Obama received 43% of the white vote. He received 95% of the Black vote.

You don't look very convincing when you erase everything else, and respond to the only sentence you had a barely half-decent response to. Grasp at straws all you want, your original argument is still arrant nonsense.

So, grasping at straws to you is posting facts that undermine your position to everyone else?
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000ike
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10/28/2012 4:44:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 4:40:02 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 10/28/2012 1:39:23 PM, 000ike wrote:
Oh, and by the way, 94% of Black American voters voted for Bill Clinton.

Clinton received 83% of the Black vote, not 94%. Unless you can provide me with a source that says otherwise.

http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu...

oh, lmao Oh my God, 84%, what a low vote percentage for a white candidate. Al Gore received 90% of the Black vote in 2000 (http://www.iamsaam.org... )
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
OberHerr
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10/28/2012 4:47:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Guys, the percentage they received is irrelevant, we all know Dems tend to receive more. What matters is the large amount of people that normally don't vote showing up to vote.
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