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Jeep moving to China???

Double_R
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10/31/2012 2:13:44 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Ok, so if any of you missed this over the past few days let me recap...

Last week Romney stands up in front of a crowd in Ohio claiming that Jeep is thinking of moving all of its production to China (video 1; sorry, it was the only short clip I could find).

This allegation was so ridiculous that Chrysler (who makes Jeep) had to come out and call Romney out on it:

"Let"s set the record straight: Jeep has no intention of shifting production of its Jeep models out of North America to China. It"s simply reviewing the opportunities to return Jeep output to China for the world"s largest auto market. U.S. Jeep assembly lines will continue to stay in operation. A careful and unbiased reading of the Bloomberg take would have saved unnecessary fantasies and extravagant comments." http://blog.chryslerllc.com...

Now you would think that a man running for president would have the decency and integrity to back off of his blatantly false allegations, however this is Mitt Romney we are talking about. Instead he releases an ad in Ohio stating that Obama "sold Chrysler to Italians who are going to build Jeeps in China", in another blatantly clear attempt to deceive people into believing Jeep will be moving jobs to China. (video 2)

This has now gotten so ridiculous that both Jeep and Chrysler had to come out once again and strike it down as well as fact checkers like Politifact gave Romney a pants on fire rating. http://www.politifact.com...

"I feel obliged to unambiguously restate our position: Jeep production will not be moved from the United States to China." Sergio Marchionne, Chrysler Chairman and CEO. http://blog.chryslergroupllc.com...

"We've clearly entered some parallel universe during these last few days. No amount of campaign politics at its cynical worst will diminish our record of creating jobs in the U.S. and repatriating profits back to this country." GM spokesman, Greg Martin http://www.freep.com...

Now does all of this finally put these ridiculous allegations to rest? No. Instead Romney fires back with a radio ad once again claiming that our jobs are being sent to China (Video 3).

My question to Romney supporters: Are any of you guys actually buying this nonsense?
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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10/31/2012 7:17:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
"If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth." - Joseph Goebbels, Nazi propaganda minister.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Microsuck
Posts: 1,562
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10/31/2012 9:02:50 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Welcome to today's politics. Both Obama and Romney are lying scumbags and neither one of them deserve my vote.
Wall of Fail

Devil worship much? - SD
Newsflash: Atheists do not believe in the Devil! - Me
Newsflash: I doesnt matter if you think you do or not.....You do - SD

"you [imabench] are very naive and so i do not consider your opinions as having any merit. you must still be in highschool" - falconduler
blameworthy
Posts: 431
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10/31/2012 9:41:12 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/31/2012 9:02:50 AM, Microsuck wrote:
Welcome to today's politics. Both Obama and Romney are lying scumbags and neither one of them deserve my vote.

Why are you voting for Romney if you believe this?
Microsuck
Posts: 1,562
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10/31/2012 9:51:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/31/2012 9:41:12 AM, blameworthy wrote:
At 10/31/2012 9:02:50 AM, Microsuck wrote:
Welcome to today's politics. Both Obama and Romney are lying scumbags and neither one of them deserve my vote.

Why are you voting for Romney if you believe this?

Check my profile. I'm voting for Johnson.
Wall of Fail

Devil worship much? - SD
Newsflash: Atheists do not believe in the Devil! - Me
Newsflash: I doesnt matter if you think you do or not.....You do - SD

"you [imabench] are very naive and so i do not consider your opinions as having any merit. you must still be in highschool" - falconduler
blameworthy
Posts: 431
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10/31/2012 10:25:01 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/31/2012 9:51:14 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 10/31/2012 9:41:12 AM, blameworthy wrote:
At 10/31/2012 9:02:50 AM, Microsuck wrote:
Welcome to today's politics. Both Obama and Romney are lying scumbags and neither one of them deserve my vote.

Why are you voting for Romney if you believe this?

Check my profile. I'm voting for Johnson.

Does Johnson support marriage equality?
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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10/31/2012 11:41:47 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/31/2012 9:02:50 AM, Microsuck wrote:
Welcome to today's politics. Both Obama and Romney are lying scumbags and neither one of them deserve my vote.

Obama has told a few whoppers like any other politician, but Romney has taken it to a whole new level that I don't think has ever been seen. The two do not compare.
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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10/31/2012 11:55:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/31/2012 10:25:01 AM, blameworthy wrote:
At 10/31/2012 9:51:14 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 10/31/2012 9:41:12 AM, blameworthy wrote:
At 10/31/2012 9:02:50 AM, Microsuck wrote:
Welcome to today's politics. Both Obama and Romney are lying scumbags and neither one of them deserve my vote.

Why are you voting for Romney if you believe this?

Check my profile. I'm voting for Johnson.

Does Johnson support marriage equality?

Yes.

If he wasn't I would be supporting him.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Microsuck
Posts: 1,562
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10/31/2012 12:01:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/31/2012 11:55:51 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 10/31/2012 10:25:01 AM, blameworthy wrote:
At 10/31/2012 9:51:14 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 10/31/2012 9:41:12 AM, blameworthy wrote:
At 10/31/2012 9:02:50 AM, Microsuck wrote:
Welcome to today's politics. Both Obama and Romney are lying scumbags and neither one of them deserve my vote.

Why are you voting for Romney if you believe this?

Check my profile. I'm voting for Johnson.

Does Johnson support marriage equality?

Yes.

: If he wasn't I would be supporting him.

If he wasn't, I wouldn't be supporting him.
Wall of Fail

Devil worship much? - SD
Newsflash: Atheists do not believe in the Devil! - Me
Newsflash: I doesnt matter if you think you do or not.....You do - SD

"you [imabench] are very naive and so i do not consider your opinions as having any merit. you must still be in highschool" - falconduler
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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10/31/2012 12:32:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Guys, Romney saying they were thinking about sending all Jeep production to China was wrong. Romney was correct though, he said that he read a report about it.

After they clarified, Romney said they are expanding production in China, instead of making that extra production in the US. That is also technically true.

The funny thing is, the left, which tends to ALWAYS criticize any outsourcing, especially to China(Think Romney hats), is not upset that Jeep is expanding in China when they could just expand here.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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10/31/2012 12:35:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/31/2012 11:55:51 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 10/31/2012 10:25:01 AM, blameworthy wrote:
At 10/31/2012 9:51:14 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 10/31/2012 9:41:12 AM, blameworthy wrote:
At 10/31/2012 9:02:50 AM, Microsuck wrote:
Welcome to today's politics. Both Obama and Romney are lying scumbags and neither one of them deserve my vote.

Why are you voting for Romney if you believe this?

Check my profile. I'm voting for Johnson.

Does Johnson support marriage equality?

Yes.

If he wasn't I would be supporting him.

that's seriously one of your main criteria you use for who you want to vote for.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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10/31/2012 1:13:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I also want to add...

WaPo's fact-check of the Jeep ad said that every claim in the ad is technically true. Then they broke their own rating rules to give it 4 pinnochios. At worst, if they want to say it is misleading, it would fall under:

1 Pinnochio - Some shading of the facts. Selective telling of the truth. Some omissions and exaggerations, but no outright falsehoods.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
blameworthy
Posts: 431
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10/31/2012 1:15:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/31/2012 1:13:18 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
I also want to add...

WaPo's fact-check of the Jeep ad said that every claim in the ad is technically true. Then they broke their own rating rules to give it 4 pinnochios. At worst, if they want to say it is misleading, it would fall under:

1 Pinnochio - Some shading of the facts. Selective telling of the truth. Some omissions and exaggerations, but no outright falsehoods.

He persisted after they corrected him, so at that point it was an outright falsehood. Please cease your endeavors to conduct Romney's damage control campaign.
blameworthy
Posts: 431
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10/31/2012 1:18:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Who cares if Jeep is expanding in China? Should we adopt the policies that the Chinese government has towards its workers? Even if we abolished the minimum wage China would still be a lucrative market because its workers are functionally slaves.

The proper course of action is to punish Jeep by boycotting it.
JaxsonRaine
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10/31/2012 1:18:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/31/2012 1:15:51 PM, blameworthy wrote:
At 10/31/2012 1:13:18 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
I also want to add...

WaPo's fact-check of the Jeep ad said that every claim in the ad is technically true. Then they broke their own rating rules to give it 4 pinnochios. At worst, if they want to say it is misleading, it would fall under:

1 Pinnochio - Some shading of the facts. Selective telling of the truth. Some omissions and exaggerations, but no outright falsehoods.

He persisted after they corrected him, so at that point it was an outright falsehood. Please cease your endeavors to conduct Romney's damage control campaign.

No, he corrected himself. He didn't continue with saying in his add that all Jeep jobs were going to China.

Are you disagreeing with WaPo when they say every claim in it was true? Which claims do you think were false?
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
JaxsonRaine
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10/31/2012 1:19:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/31/2012 1:18:01 PM, blameworthy wrote:
Who cares if Jeep is expanding in China? Should we adopt the policies that the Chinese government has towards its workers? Even if we abolished the minimum wage China would still be a lucrative market because its workers are functionally slaves.

The proper course of action is to punish Jeep by boycotting it.

That's the ironic thing. The LEFT is always the side that is demonizing taking advantage of cheap costs in China. In this case though, Romney is wrong for pointing that out.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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10/31/2012 2:19:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/31/2012 7:17:07 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
"If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth." - Joseph Goebbels, Nazi propaganda minister.

Like Social Security and medicare being Constitutional.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
JaxsonRaine
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10/31/2012 6:15:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Lol.

Double_R. I just read the report that Romney was originally referencing. The president of the Jeep brand did in fact say that they were looking at the possibility of doing all Jeep production in China.

They back-tracked that statement, it was probably just poorly worded, but Romney was right. That's what the report said.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
Khaos_Mage
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10/31/2012 7:30:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I don't know what the truth is, but I am sure it is something in the middle.

Double_R pointed out that Chrysler was looking at the opportunities of China production and/or output to them (the increase may be done in China). Spin puts this fact as Jeep is outsourcing, even if it is only thinking about it.

A better tactic IMO would be to say that, assuming all jobs stay here and output to China increases, we have "stolen" jobs from the Chinese, and this is how/why businesses outsource. If it's bad for us to ship our jobs, then it's bad to ship our products (jobs there could produce).

Regardless, in the second clip, Romney's ad stated that Obama led GM to bankruptcy; GM needed no help. Plus, Romney advocated GM's bankruptcy from the start. So, while it is a truthful statement, it is misleading and disengenious.
My work here is, finally, done.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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11/1/2012 1:20:55 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/31/2012 12:32:21 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
Guys, Romney saying they were thinking about sending all Jeep production to China was wrong. Romney was correct though, he said that he read a report about it.

After they clarified, Romney said they are expanding production in China, instead of making that extra production in the US. That is also technically true.

The funny thing is, the left, which tends to ALWAYS criticize any outsourcing, especially to China(Think Romney hats), is not upset that Jeep is expanding in China when they could just expand here.

Expanding in China =/= Outsourcing to China.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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11/1/2012 2:53:04 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/31/2012 1:13:18 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
I also want to add...

WaPo's fact-check of the Jeep ad said that every claim in the ad is technically true. Then they broke their own rating rules to give it 4 pinnochios.

So what if what he said in the ad is "technically true"? The problem is how blatant his attempts are to deliver a message that he knows for a fact is not true. If Romney really wanted to argue over whether Jeeps that are sold to China should be made in the US then he should have made that argument. That is not even close to what his ad implies because it is not scary enough to get him those extra votes he needs. So instead he intentionally makes the ad sound as if American jobs are being outsourced to China. And despite everyone in the country making that clear to him he continues anyway without even attempting to clarify the message. It is amazing that anyone takes this guy seriously as a presidential candidate.
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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11/1/2012 3:00:54 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/31/2012 6:15:07 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
Lol.

Double_R. I just read the report that Romney was originally referencing. The president of the Jeep brand did in fact say that they were looking at the possibility of doing all Jeep production in China.

They back-tracked that statement, it was probably just poorly worded, but Romney was right. That's what the report said.

I assume you are talking about the Bloomberg report which Romney references in his ad. The ad does in fact sound that way at first, but just as the Chrysler CEO stated, if he had actually read the article carefully he would have understood what they were talking about. From the report:

"Chrysler currently builds all Jeep SUV models at plants in Michigan, Illinois and Ohio. Manley referred to adding Jeep production sites rather than shifting output from North America to China."
http://www.bloomberg.com...

But why read that far when you could just read the first paragraph and use it in a campaign speech in front of thousands of potential voters? After all don't want to let those fact checkers dictate your campaign eh?
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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11/1/2012 3:49:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/1/2012 2:53:04 AM, Double_R wrote:
It is amazing that anyone takes this guy seriously as a presidential candidate.
How people can even think of Obama improving anything the next four years is beyond my head. I guess the left fall too much for stupid rhetoric. (This includes you, Ma'am.)
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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11/1/2012 11:46:12 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/31/2012 1:18:01 PM, blameworthy wrote:
Who cares if Jeep is expanding in China? Should we adopt the policies that the Chinese government has towards its workers? Even if we abolished the minimum wage China would still be a lucrative market because its workers are functionally slaves.

The proper course of action is to punish Jeep by boycotting it.

Who cares if jobs are being moved to another country, but marriage equality is your lithmus test for a candidate??...lol

No wonder this country is in such trouble.
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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11/1/2012 12:33:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/1/2012 3:49:53 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 11/1/2012 2:53:04 AM, Double_R wrote:
It is amazing that anyone takes this guy seriously as a presidential candidate.
How people can even think of Obama improving anything the next four years is beyond my head. I guess the left fall too much for stupid rhetoric.

Insulting lefties for falling for stupid rhetoric, by spewing stupid rhetoric. Great tactic.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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11/1/2012 12:41:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/1/2012 12:33:27 PM, Double_R wrote:
Insulting lefties for falling for stupid rhetoric, by spewing stupid rhetoric. Great tactic.
Uh oh. At least I don't fall for it. That's why I can listen to Saint Obama all day long and not be convinced by his idiotic words!
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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11/1/2012 12:49:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/1/2012 12:41:32 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 11/1/2012 12:33:27 PM, Double_R wrote:
Insulting lefties for falling for stupid rhetoric, by spewing stupid rhetoric. Great tactic.
Uh oh. At least I don't fall for it. That's why I can listen to Saint Obama all day long and not be convinced by his idiotic words!

I've never seen you engage in any kind of argumentation that justifies the things you say. You think Obama took away gun rights? Prove it. Point us to what he did. You think Obama is authoritarian but Romney will give you more economic freedom? Prove it. I can easily show you the details of Romneycare, and Romney's liberal record in Massachusetts. You think Romney will have better foreign policy? Prove it. I can show you that it would be the same as Obama's by Romney's own admission in debate #3, drone strikes and all.

So, stop going around insulting people and insulting the president. And just as a sidenote, referring to people as "ma'am" isn't cute, it isn't witty, it isn't funny - I'm not sure if that's your idea of an insult.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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11/1/2012 12:57:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/1/2012 12:49:09 PM, 000ike wrote:
I've never seen you engage in any kind of argumentation that justifies the things you say.
Learn to read. Thus far, it has been the case that when I responded to you with clear counter-arguments, you've ignored them.

You think Obama took away gun rights? Prove it.
I never used Obama and gun rights in one sentence. Hit the road, thanks.

Point us to what he did.
Check my debates. Check my earlier arguments with you. You mean what he did last night? Not sure, but I can imagine a variety of things.

You think Obama is authoritarian but Romney will give you more economic freedom? Prove it. I can easily show you the details of Romneycare, and Romney's liberal record in Massachusetts. You think Romney will have better foreign policy? Prove it. I can show you that it would be the same as Obama's by Romney's own admission in debate #3, drone strikes and all.
I count as little as 4 strawmen in this paragraph! Good job, you've hit less than 10 in one post.

So, stop going around insulting people
Oh, you too!

and insulting the president.
Facts about him are insults? The fact that his best way of getting voters is through stupid rhetoric, is something you'd call an insult? The fact that he has shown arrogant behavior throughout his campaign and debates is an insult to him?

And just as a sidenote, referring to people as "ma'am" isn't cute, it isn't witty, it isn't funny - I'm not sure if that's your idea of an insult.
Hmm, maybe I should use lowlife instead? But that's a too obvious insult.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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11/1/2012 1:00:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
On a side note, people in my country accuse politicians for mass-murder, corruption, theft of foreign aid, etc. And they don't take that as an insult, not even the saint (president). Sheesh, hit puberty already.