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Young people and politics

TerenceoftheDurbevilles
Posts: 9
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11/8/2012 7:16:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I see a bizarre number of extremely radical ideologues on this website who hold frankly insane views. Unsurprisingly the average user age seems to be well below twenty. While I admire their early interest, I am certain that as soon as these members grow up and gain some experience of the real world they will lose most of their fringe fanaticism.
I wonder if any of these fellows, particularly the anarchists, would care to explain their gravitation to radical ideologies?
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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11/8/2012 7:47:56 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I agree with you 87%, you radical.
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https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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11/8/2012 8:23:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/8/2012 7:16:26 AM, TerenceoftheDurbevilles wrote:
I see a bizarre number of extremely radical ideologues on this website who hold frankly insane views. Unsurprisingly the average user age seems to be well below twenty. While I admire their early interest, I am certain that as soon as these members grow up and gain some experience of the real world they will lose most of their fringe fanaticism.
I wonder if any of these fellows, particularly the anarchists, would care to explain their gravitation to radical ideologies?

I don't know if I would call it radical. Naive would be a better word I think. But yes, I agree. I would be willing to put up money on a fair bet that says most of them will give
up these naive fantasies as they grow older.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
TerenceoftheDurbevilles
Posts: 9
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11/8/2012 8:34:57 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/8/2012 8:23:02 AM, jharry wrote:
At 11/8/2012 7:16:26 AM, TerenceoftheDurbevilles wrote:
I see a bizarre number of extremely radical ideologues on this website who hold frankly insane views. Unsurprisingly the average user age seems to be well below twenty. While I admire their early interest, I am certain that as soon as these members grow up and gain some experience of the real world they will lose most of their fringe fanaticism.
I wonder if any of these fellows, particularly the anarchists, would care to explain their gravitation to radical ideologies?

I don't know if I would call it radical. Naive would be a better word I think. But yes, I agree. I would be willing to put up money on a fair bet that says most of them will give
up these naive fantasies as they grow older.

A radical ideology and a naive one often go hand in hand. Surely you must agree that the prevalence of anarchism on this site is evidence of an endemic radicalism?
jat93
Posts: 1,440
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11/8/2012 8:35:47 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/8/2012 7:32:56 AM, darkkermit wrote:
stating that we shouldn't have slavery used to be a radical idea.

/end thread (to take a leaf from spinko's book)
TerenceoftheDurbevilles
Posts: 9
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11/8/2012 8:36:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/8/2012 7:42:54 AM, Ron-Paul wrote:
General Libertarianism is a radical ideology?
Yes.
Also, you need a broader look at this website.
Potentially.
TerenceoftheDurbevilles
Posts: 9
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11/8/2012 8:39:17 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/8/2012 7:32:56 AM, darkkermit wrote:
stating that we shouldn't have slavery used to be a radical idea.

Possibly in the US (though I think it would do to define our terms here - I do not define radicalism as a minority position, but one considered far out from the realms of moderated discourse, in which case it would be false to describe it as radical position), but not from a global perspective.
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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11/8/2012 8:55:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
So holding fiscally conservative, socially tolerant views is radical? Is voting outside our two party system radical?
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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11/8/2012 8:58:17 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/8/2012 8:39:17 AM, TerenceoftheDurbevilles wrote:
At 11/8/2012 7:32:56 AM, darkkermit wrote:
stating that we shouldn't have slavery used to be a radical idea.

Possibly in the US (though I think it would do to define our terms here - I do not define radicalism as a minority position, but one considered far out from the realms of moderated discourse, in which case it would be false to describe it as radical position), but not from a global perspective.

Correct me if I'm wrong but slavery has been global in scope and goes back centuries before the US was founded.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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11/8/2012 9:17:01 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/8/2012 8:23:02 AM, jharry wrote:
At 11/8/2012 7:16:26 AM, TerenceoftheDurbevilles wrote:
I see a bizarre number of extremely radical ideologues on this website who hold frankly insane views. Unsurprisingly the average user age seems to be well below twenty. While I admire their early interest, I am certain that as soon as these members grow up and gain some experience of the real world they will lose most of their fringe fanaticism.
I wonder if any of these fellows, particularly the anarchists, would care to explain their gravitation to radical ideologies?

I don't know if I would call it radical. Naive would be a better word I think. But yes, I agree. I would be willing to put up money on a fair bet that says most of them will give
up these naive fantasies as they grow older.

I guess it would end up in how you say tomato. I say matter but I'm from Alabama so I prolly don't count.

You could call it radical before you know much about what they want. After you talk to a few of them you end up calling it naive.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
TerenceoftheDurbevilles
Posts: 9
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11/8/2012 9:30:16 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/8/2012 8:58:17 AM, lewis20 wrote:
At 11/8/2012 8:39:17 AM, TerenceoftheDurbevilles wrote:
At 11/8/2012 7:32:56 AM, darkkermit wrote:
stating that we shouldn't have slavery used to be a radical idea.

Possibly in the US (though I think it would do to define our terms here - I do not define radicalism as a minority position, but one considered far out from the realms of moderated discourse, in which case it would be false to describe it as radical position), but not from a global perspective.

Correct me if I'm wrong but slavery has been global in scope and goes back centuries before the US was founded.

Just because something is implemented doesn't mean disagreeing with it is radical. Whether it is a socially accepted position, and how far it deviates from the socially accepted positions determines how radical it is.

Hence anarchism, deviating from such social norms is radical, whereas slavery wasn't as there were always a significant number of dissenters.
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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11/8/2012 9:33:46 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/8/2012 9:30:16 AM, TerenceoftheDurbevilles wrote:
At 11/8/2012 8:58:17 AM, lewis20 wrote:
At 11/8/2012 8:39:17 AM, TerenceoftheDurbevilles wrote:
At 11/8/2012 7:32:56 AM, darkkermit wrote:
stating that we shouldn't have slavery used to be a radical idea.

Possibly in the US (though I think it would do to define our terms here - I do not define radicalism as a minority position, but one considered far out from the realms of moderated discourse, in which case it would be false to describe it as radical position), but not from a global perspective.

Correct me if I'm wrong but slavery has been global in scope and goes back centuries before the US was founded.

Just because something is implemented doesn't mean disagreeing with it is radical. Whether it is a socially accepted position, and how far it deviates from the socially accepted positions determines how radical it is.

Hence anarchism, deviating from such social norms is radical, whereas slavery wasn't as there were always a significant number of dissenters.

So slavery wasn't a social norm? What about democracy, freedom of speech and freedom of religion? Those were only the social norm in the last few hundred years.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
jat93
Posts: 1,440
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11/8/2012 9:52:54 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I am an atheist anarchist who thinks existence is crazy and incomprehensible to we immensely limited mortals, basically is an absurdist (Albert Camus' philosophy), thinks humans are only semi-rational, semi-non-instinctive animals who differ from the lower animals only in terms of linguistic capabilities and the ability to make advanced tools (technology). I think none of the three Judeo-Christian monotheisms are divinely inspired and mostly result from an age of mankind where there was suffering and death and misery everywhere; we felt so helpless and powerless, that we needed something to convince ourselves that either we were in control of everything going on/ not totally lost and meaningless in the whirlwind of existence, or that some being is in control of everything and cares and looks after us. (Also, our strong fear of death.) So we created an invisible father-like figure in the sky who has a creepy obsession with a certain species of animals, cares a whole lot about all their trivial actions and desires their interest in him despite being perfect in every way and creating trillions of other galaxies and planets that he apparently doesn't give a sh!t about ...

I think taxation is coercion & theft, wars of aggression are forms of premeditated mass murder, and that conscription is slavery. I think you should be able to do whatever the hell you want with your body and your property if you mind your own business and don't harm anyone, therefore I think that all drugs that affect only the user and don't likely result in harm of others or their property (all of them?) should be legalized immediately. I believe in the crazy radical theory of foreign policy blowback, which is basically that if you bomb the sh!t of a country for decades and prop up repressive dictatorships for the sake of your country's "strategic interests" there that torture the people into fear and are puppets for the country that installed the dictatorships, then the citizens of that country might get a little pissed off at your country's government and get radicalized against your government and all the people that live under it. I think the official reasons given for wars are almost always based on lies.

I think that American society/politics is largely dictated by exclusive, megalomaniac, wealthy groups that comprise the higher parts of the top 1% of the economic scale. I refer to this group as the state-corporation. You see, those on the right see state power as an inherent evil from which most of society's big problems flow. Those on the left see corporate power as an inherent evil from which most of society's big problems flow. I think that the government and certain wealthy corporations are working together, have a very comfortable relationship, and are both huge threats to freedom and the well-being of those living in our country, and even our species as a whole. I think there is a revolving door between Goldman Sachs and Presidential administrations/position appointments. Obama has 11 former Goldman Sachs members serving in his administration, because they bankrolled his campaign in 2008. I also think it should be self-evident that politicians would dole out favors to powerful financial interests at the expense of the common people, and this should surprise only a naive fool. I think there are a bunch of huge weapon producing corporations that benefit hugely from the military industrial complex which has been consistently fed well with near perpetual warfare since the end of WW11 and the beginning of the Cold War. I think these companies almost always have huge control over media corporations and sometimes are one and the same. I think the terrorist threat is a sham that is used to deprive the common people of their liberties for the sake of security but that it actually makes them far less secure, letting their government effectively rape their "rights" to property and privacy, and that many high ranking politicians are aware of this yet continue to vote in favor of it anyway.

I think most people in society are living in a really horrible way, so paralyzed by their eternal fear of failure that they never even try to really succeed, and thus convince themselves that working a decently paying desk job 5 days a week from 9 AM to 5 PM constitutes success. I think that the near universal societal worship of celebrities, geniuses, and leaders, indicates that most people know the ideal life is one where you can basically do what you really want and love, and act like a crazy weirdo and get away with it. However, again, most people are scared to take a chance of failing, so they never attempt to find true success, and settle for a boring, sh!tty, average life. They also do this in part because they simply don't think about life choices at all - they justify remaining on the prescribed societal path by appealing to power/authority (government, religion, parents, and/or friends told me to do or not do X) or by appealing to popularity (this is the normal and accepted way to live life in my society or a sub-community within that society, so I'll accept it without really questioning it).

That's just for starters. Radical enough for you? If you hold beliefs/proposals about life, society, existence, the overwhelming odds are that they were considered ridiculous and radical for most of the time that they were ever considered. So your appeal to authority/popularity is an EPIC fail.

Why do I believe all these apparently, radical, "naive" things? For one, I think a lot. I don't accept things as true because an authority establishment and/or most people do; for most of of our history most people believed in a flat earth and the sun revolving around the earth and enslaving/murdering people of different skin color and denying women basic rights - so please get over your stupid beliefs that there is any correlation between the popularity of a belief/how consistent it is with what the government says and the truth of that belief; and get over the stupid belief that there is any correlation between how few people might support an idea/how contradictory it is to what government says and the falsehood of that belief. There are no such correlations.

Some day, if our species survives long enough (no offense but I honestly doubt it with people who have mindsets like yours) societies in the future will look back on our society and every single thing you do, every belief you hold, and think "ah, those barbarians, how could they support such stupidity and tyranny in all aspects of their lives/society!" They will believe this with conviction, they will have scientists and historians and politicians believing and voicing this conviction- that everything we do now is primitive and barbaric, and that huge groups in our society were being oppressed & denied their rights by those in power. This is the fundamental lesson of both history and anthropology: cultural relativity. Get over the silly notion that somehow, the human society that you live in, and the standards established by those in control of it and by popular support, are therefore somehow more credible, and ideas that contradict them and are "fringe" are somehow less credible. History, philosophy, anthropology, neuroscience, sociology, literature, etc. all disagree with you.

I should also note that young people, particularly from the teenage years until the late 20s, have a tendency to question everything, want to save/fix the world, and in general be pretty idealistic. I think older people could learn a lot from young people in this regard but they don't, because of intellectual snobbery/undeserved arrogance they think they have earned just by existing longer than the young. They simply overrate life experience in terms of understanding life, although it is certainly something to be valued. Also, fyi, my experiences with mind altering drugs have vastly contributed to my understanding of the human condition.
jat93
Posts: 1,440
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11/8/2012 9:56:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Is it arrogant of me to think that any human being who has an opinion on absolutely anything in existence should best read that last post of mine in full before feeling certain about anything or that something is probably true? That's some good sh!t yo, if I do say so myself, read it and enjoy the perspective change.
Ron-Paul
Posts: 2,557
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11/8/2012 9:58:20 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/8/2012 8:36:03 AM, TerenceoftheDurbevilles wrote:
At 11/8/2012 7:42:54 AM, Ron-Paul wrote:
General Libertarianism is a radical ideology?
Yes.

Cool story.
Also, you need a broader look at this website.
Potentially.
Deathbeforedishonour
Posts: 1,058
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11/8/2012 10:31:42 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/8/2012 8:36:03 AM, TerenceoftheDurbevilles wrote:
At 11/8/2012 7:42:54 AM, Ron-Paul wrote:
General Libertarianism is a radical ideology?
Yes.
Haha Someone needs a political education...
Also, you need a broader look at this website.
Potentially.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." ~ John 1:1

Matthew 10:22- "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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11/8/2012 11:18:04 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/8/2012 10:31:42 AM, Deathbeforedishonour wrote:
At 11/8/2012 8:36:03 AM, TerenceoftheDurbevilles wrote:
At 11/8/2012 7:42:54 AM, Ron-Paul wrote:
General Libertarianism is a radical ideology?
Yes.
Haha Someone needs a political education...

The founding fathers were some radical dudes.

Also Martha Washington was a hip, a hip hip lady man
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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11/8/2012 11:25:15 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Besides, our two party system isn't radical and it doesn't work. Trillions in debt, printing money and bailing out wall-street and too big to fail banks. Multiple wars and an over-extended empire. Something's got to change and your president Mitt Romney wasn't going to change a thing. A radical move in Washington is cutting spending at a pace to eliminate the deficit in ten years. Only outspending the world 600% as oppose to 700% on the military.
They'll label you radical if you dare say that the US might not need 11 super carriers, maybe 8 or 9 will do. Or get really radical, say only 5? That's only 5 times as many super carriers as China or Russia have.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
jat93
Posts: 1,440
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11/8/2012 11:45:29 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/8/2012 11:25:15 AM, lewis20 wrote:
Besides, our two party system isn't radical and it doesn't work. Trillions in debt, printing money and bailing out wall-street and too big to fail banks. Multiple wars and an over-extended empire. Something's got to change and your president Mitt Romney wasn't going to change a thing. A radical move in Washington is cutting spending at a pace to eliminate the deficit in ten years. Only outspending the world 600% as oppose to 700% on the military.
They'll label you radical if you dare say that the US might not need 11 super carriers, maybe 8 or 9 will do. Or get really radical, say only 5? That's only 5 times as many super carriers as China or Russia have.

This x 1000.

Quite simply, how radical an idea is, or how accepted it is by the masses and the political establishments, doesn't prove anything about its validity or lack thereof. If anything though, the fact that a belief is not radical and is seen as acceptable/normal by a majority of the American public, media, and government, probably indicates that there's a solid chance of that idea being total garbage. why does everyone assume that the society one was born into is just right about ideas and whatever? this is so destructive, and it's this kind of thinking, literally and without exaggeration, that enabled - and continues to enable! - institutionalized slavery, genocides, and all sorts of evils and tyranny etc. People, think for yourself, check the facts, try and be as objective as possible for a limited human animal to be, and disregard the popularity or lack thereof of ANY belief because it is irrelevant!
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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11/8/2012 11:47:58 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Youngins always think they can change the world. Soon they'll all be scoffing at the crazy ideas of their children.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

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lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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11/8/2012 12:03:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/8/2012 11:47:58 AM, Maikuru wrote:
Youngins always think they can change the world. Soon they'll all be scoffing at the crazy ideas of their children.

I know, how dare they. They need to learn they're place, to sit down and shut up and do what they're told. Challenging the status quo never got anyone anywhere.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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11/8/2012 12:11:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/8/2012 7:16:26 AM, TerenceoftheDurbevilles wrote:
blah blah blah insane radical are insane blah blah real world experience blah blah blah blah anarchism is crazy because I say so so don't ask for a real argument.

Fixd.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
jat93
Posts: 1,440
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11/8/2012 12:11:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Quite simply, how radical an idea is, or how accepted it is by the masses and the political establishments, doesn't prove anything about its validity or lack thereof. If anything though, the fact that a belief is not radical and is seen as acceptable/normal by a majority of the American public, media, and government, probably indicates that there's a solid chance of that idea being total garbage. why does everyone assume that the society one was born into is just right about ideas and whatever? this is so destructive, and it's this kind of thinking, literally and without exaggeration, that enabled - and continues to enable! - institutionalized slavery, genocides, war (aka mass, state sanctioned murder, but most people call it war to disguise this fact and pretend it different/morally acceptable) and all sorts of evils and tyranny etc. People, think for yourself, check the facts, try and be as objective as possible for a limited human animal to be, and disregard the popularity or lack thereof of ANY belief because it is irrelevant!

Thinking and writing this kind of stuff makes me feel like fvcking Socrates or something. I shouldn't have to feel this way. I don't want to feel this way. But most people are fvcking retarded when it comes to politics, philosophy, religion, living life. Like, get over yourself humanity, you are a species of animal and you think you're so much better than all the other animals, but LITERALLY the only differences are that we have linguistic capability and advanced tool making abilities. So those two things enable us to have complex, industrialized societies, and we all think were the sh!t because of it. As a result we feel comfortable killing, capturing, and enng as many other non-human animals - even if members of those species can think, feel, love, have interests - and very few people even really reflect on this, and of those that do, even fewer think there's something mayyybe a little fcked up about it. Shame on humanity for its willful ignorance and preference to assume that popular beliefs/institutions are more likely to be true/just - this is why progress takes so fvcking long, and way black people in America were second-class citizens like FIFTY years ago, after being enslaved for god knows how long. It's because people simply rely on authority and popularity. Well, look how that's worked out.

My point? Most human beings are terribly off the mark when it comes to their views on... Well, everything we do in existence. So given the general ignorance of the masses of human beings on all matters, ESPECIALLY important ones like politics philosophy etc, why would you give a flying fvck about whether something is radical or fringe or somewhere between? Unless you trust the opinion of the average person on the street, or even the average voter.

Seriously, most people need to wake up and realize that just because we're human does not make us omnipotent. Look around at every facet of society and you see that everything has major, pressing problems that need to fixed. Some of them we have been working on continuously for thousands of years, with little to no avail. Our species is on a fast track for extinction (and possibly bringing down the earth with it, and no this is not an exaggeration, just think of the Cuban Missile Crisis and how freaking close we were to a nuclear holocaust) if most people don't accept the limitations of our species and stop pretending that things that are popular/accepted are necessarily more legitimate than things that are not.

For shame, humanity, for shame. I weep for you. I will fight for you, and die in the fight if I must. But I know that, ironically, paradoxically, it is your animal limitations that prevent you from recognizing your animal limitations and thus stopping the idea that mankind is somehow omnipotent/onmniscient. Things would be better if we could never have developed language and technology and thus could never have the capacity for destroying the world like we do in the age of nuclear weapons. If you're not scared right now for humanity's future, you're part of the problem.
Ahmed.M
Posts: 616
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11/8/2012 12:23:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
jat93 stop wasting energy making long forum posts. In a week or two you post will dissapear in a sea of threads and posts. Direct that energy towards a debate.
jat93
Posts: 1,440
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11/8/2012 12:28:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/8/2012 12:23:19 PM, Ahmed.M wrote:
jat93 stop wasting energy making long forum posts. In a week or two you post will dissapear in a sea of threads and posts. Direct that energy towards a debate.

You don't understand. I write these type of things all the time. That's what I do. It comes easily and naturally to me and doesn't take me NEARLY as long as you might think. I simply write and don't stop and these words are the result. I write these things primarily for myself, but I figure, if I can share my thoughts with others in the possibility of helping someone, or freeing someone, like I have helped and freed myself, why not share it? These are things I write for myself and posting it here is secondary. I do seriously appreciate the recommendation though. Maybe I will do more debates on here. Thanks for your concern.

Also, sharing stuff is the best way to get feedback and criticism, which I need desperately.

This is simply what I do; I think and I communicate and I fcking love it like nothing else. it is my nature and there is no controlling it.
Deathbeforedishonour
Posts: 1,058
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11/8/2012 12:33:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/8/2012 12:11:20 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 11/8/2012 7:16:26 AM, TerenceoftheDurbevilles wrote:
blah blah blah insane radical are insane blah blah real world experience blah blah blah blah anarchism is crazy because I say so so don't ask for a real argument.

Fixd.

That's better.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." ~ John 1:1

Matthew 10:22- "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."