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Pakistani Drone Victims Infuriated @ ObamaWin

GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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11/8/2012 11:56:31 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
"The 28-year-old Pakistani accuses the President of robbing him of his father, three brothers and a nephew, all killed in a U.S. drone aircraft attack a month after Obama first took office.

"The same person who attacked my home has gotten re-elected," he told Reuters in the capital, Islamabad, where he fled after the attack on his village in South Waziristan, one of several ethnic Pashtun tribal areas on the Afghan border.

"Since yesterday, the pressure on my brain has increased. I remember all of the pain again.""

http://mobile.reuters.com...
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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11/8/2012 1:14:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/8/2012 11:56:31 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
"The 28-year-old Pakistani accuses the President of robbing him of his father, three brothers and a nephew, all killed in a U.S. drone aircraft attack a month after Obama first took office.

"The same person who attacked my home has gotten re-elected," he told Reuters in the capital, Islamabad, where he fled after the attack on his village in South Waziristan, one of several ethnic Pashtun tribal areas on the Afghan border.

"Since yesterday, the pressure on my brain has increased. I remember all of the pain again.""

http://mobile.reuters.com...

Do you have a point to make?
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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11/8/2012 1:20:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Point is Obama is a tyrant who kills whoever he wants wherever they are. Other people don't like that.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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11/8/2012 1:58:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
She's brown so it's kewl.
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Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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11/8/2012 2:16:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
"drone strikes in Pakistan have killed between 1,908 and 3,225 people"
"about 15 percent of those killed were non-militants"

So, maybe 300-400 innocent people murdered via drones.

The reason 9/11 was considered outrageous and this isn't doesn't have to do with the colour of their skin, as Spinko implies. It's because our moral intuitions don't rank 'directly killing people' and 'killing people as a side effect of some other action' as equal in magnitude. It's because people aren't natural utilitarians.
Kinesis
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11/8/2012 2:18:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/8/2012 1:20:18 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Point is Obama is a tyrant who kills whoever he wants wherever they are. Other people don't like that.

This is false. Obama doesn't have the authority to kill "whoever he wants". There are plenty of things he could do that would result in arrest for murder or trial for war crimes.
Kinesis
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11/8/2012 2:22:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/8/2012 1:14:49 PM, Double_R wrote:
Do you have a point to make?

A man lost many of his loved ones as a direct result of Obama's strategic decisions. He decided that the trade off of protecting American soldiers by sacrificing innocent Pakistanis via increased civilian casualties was worth it politically. That's pretty bad.
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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11/8/2012 2:24:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/8/2012 2:18:56 PM, Kinesis wrote:
At 11/8/2012 1:20:18 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Point is Obama is a tyrant who kills whoever he wants wherever they are. Other people don't like that.

This is false. Obama doesn't have the authority to kill "whoever he wants". There are plenty of things he could do that would result in arrest for murder or trial for war crimes.

Ha name one? Who's going to try him for war crimes? We don't recognize any of the international organizations capable of doing so.

He's killed a 16 year old American citizen and the ndaa has made it legal for him to imprison literally any person without due process .
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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11/8/2012 2:29:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/8/2012 2:16:04 PM, Kinesis wrote:
"drone strikes in Pakistan have killed between 1,908 and 3,225 people"
"about 15 percent of those killed were non-militants"

So, maybe 300-400 innocent people murdered via drones.

15 percent were not militant by definition, however Obama changed the definition of militant to include any males of military age in the strike zone. As to lower the civilian casualty count.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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11/8/2012 2:50:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/8/2012 2:24:19 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Ha name one? Who's going to try him for war crimes? We don't recognize any of the international organizations capable of doing so.

Okay, to take an extreme example for the sake of illustration, say that Obama ordered the mass murder of an ethnic minority within a country based on Nazi eugenic principles. I would imagine pressure from within America itself would force him to the international criminal court.

He's killed a 16 year old American citizen and the ndaa has made it legal for him to imprison literally any person without due process .

Yeah, those things are bad. I agree with you.
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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11/8/2012 2:53:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/8/2012 2:24:19 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 11/8/2012 2:18:56 PM, Kinesis wrote:
At 11/8/2012 1:20:18 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Point is Obama is a tyrant who kills whoever he wants wherever they are. Other people don't like that.

This is false. Obama doesn't have the authority to kill "whoever he wants". There are plenty of things he could do that would result in arrest for murder or trial for war crimes.

Ha name one? Who's going to try him for war crimes? We don't recognize any of the international organizations capable of doing so.

He's killed a 16 year old American citizen and the ndaa has made it legal for him to imprison literally any person without due process .

evidence please
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GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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11/8/2012 2:54:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/8/2012 2:29:21 PM, lewis20 wrote:
15 percent were not militant by definition, however Obama changed the definition of militant to include any males of military age in the strike zone. As to lower the civilian casualty count.

Exactly.

"The study challenges official versions of three attacks between 2009 and 2011, including a drone strike on March 17, 2011, that killed an estimated 42 people. The gathering was a"jirga, a meeting of elders, called to settle a dispute over a chromite mine, the report says.

According to the report, most of those killed were civilians, including elders and auxiliary police. Only about four known members of a Taliban group attended, the study says, citing survivors and news"accounts. U.S. officials insisted that all the dead were militants, the report says.

The authors recommend that the U.S. Justice Department publicly state the legal basis for targeted killings by drones and the criteria for "signature strikes," those authorized against armed men who fit the profile of militants. The report says the strikes violate international law because, in part, the government has not proved the targets are direct threats to the United States."

http://articles.latimes.com...

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"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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11/8/2012 2:58:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/8/2012 2:29:21 PM, lewis20 wrote:
15 percent were not militant by definition, however Obama changed the definition of militant to include any males of military age in the strike zone. As to lower the civilian casualty count.

Yeah, the number is probably higher. That's awful.
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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11/8/2012 3:02:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/8/2012 2:53:25 PM, Contra wrote:
evidence please

He's talking about Abdulrahman al-Awlaki, who was an American son of an al-Qaeda operative killed (allegedly) by mistake in an airstrike.

http://www.washingtonpost.com...
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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11/8/2012 3:22:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/8/2012 3:02:19 PM, Kinesis wrote:
He's talking about Abdulrahman al-Awlaki, who was an American son of an al-Qaeda operative killed (allegedly) by mistake in an airstrike.
http://www.washingtonpost.com...

Not allegedly. Your own link in my other thread proved that not only did they kill a 16 y/o U.S. citizen, they justified it by blaming the son for being born and having a bad dad.

Must watch:
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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11/8/2012 3:27:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/8/2012 3:22:19 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Not allegedly. Your own link in my other thread proved that not only did they kill a 16 y/o U.S. citizen, they justified it by blaming the son for being born and having a bad dad.

I mean, they allegedly killed him mistakenly. The facts around that are shrouded in some mystery; it's possible that they mistakenly identified him as a terrorist and killed him purposefully for example, and then one of Obama's advisers lied about it.

Yeah, I posted that link in the other thread. Pretty revealing.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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11/10/2012 10:56:55 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/8/2012 11:56:31 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
"The 28-year-old Pakistani accuses the President of robbing him of his father, three brothers and a nephew, all killed in a U.S. drone aircraft attack a month after Obama first took office.

"The same person who attacked my home has gotten re-elected," he told Reuters in the capital, Islamabad, where he fled after the attack on his village in South Waziristan, one of several ethnic Pashtun tribal areas on the Afghan border.

"Since yesterday, the pressure on my brain has increased. I remember all of the pain again.""

http://mobile.reuters.com...

Right, because if McCain had won back in 2008, he would have totally pulled us out of all the conflicts so that no one else got hurt and this guy's family would still be alive. Sounds like he's blaming the wrong thing.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
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11/10/2012 10:58:10 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/8/2012 1:58:54 PM, socialpinko wrote:
She's brown so it's kewl.

I'm sure that is what Obama thinks.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"