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Why do we need politicians?

Cometflash
Posts: 126
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11/21/2012 10:56:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I understand the need of a government, but not the need of politicians.

It always feels like you have a bunch of unqualifying people doing the work. Each field should require the skills necessary to do the job.

It seems that all you need to run the country, or any part of it, is be good at convincing the majority of the people you should run it. They convince them by talks and nothing more. And the talks, probably comes from someone else.

I remember watching debates from when Obama and McCain was running, and every debate both of them would talk about the same exactly thing they have previewsly done so. It was almost like they memorized their plans, and had no other information outside of that. They were masters at diversion, since they kept going around without answering many questions.
It was almost like they were thinking. "Well, I don't have an answer for that, there was nothing about that on my study sheet, let me use my diversion skills and make it about something I did study".

Begining of sentences like, "I'll say this, ...", is almost a promise someone is about to answer what you did not ask for.
jat93
Posts: 1,440
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11/21/2012 11:17:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I agree that in general, to be a politician, all you need is to be really persuasive/convincing, which usually means good at lying and pretending you give a sh!t about the common peoples' problems. I think most politicians exhibit sociopathic behavior in their campaigns and political careers. I think most politicians have a serious deficiency in integrity (integrity = standing by one's principles). Politics is the art of pretty sounding, appealing, yet impossible and unfulfilled promises.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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11/22/2012 1:41:17 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/21/2012 11:36:53 PM, darkkermit wrote:
How do you think the lawmakers and executive leader should be chosen then?

Lottery, just like jury duty.
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darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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11/22/2012 1:58:41 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/22/2012 1:41:17 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 11/21/2012 11:36:53 PM, darkkermit wrote:
How do you think the lawmakers and executive leader should be chosen then?

Lottery, just like jury duty.

so you think the president of the united states should be based on lottery?

I might not be in favor of our current government or Obama, but I can think of a lot of people who I wouldn't want to see in power and would be a lot worse.

Remember a lottery option gives the possibility of royal becoming president of the united states. I think if that occurred, I'd defect to North Korea.
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Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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11/22/2012 2:12:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/22/2012 1:58:41 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 11/22/2012 1:41:17 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 11/21/2012 11:36:53 PM, darkkermit wrote:
How do you think the lawmakers and executive leader should be chosen then?

Lottery, just like jury duty.

so you think the president of the united states should be based on lottery?

I might not be in favor of our current government or Obama, but I can think of a lot of people who I wouldn't want to see in power and would be a lot worse.

Remember a lottery option gives the possibility of royal becoming president of the united states. I think if that occurred, I'd defect to North Korea.

I was trying to be funny, but a true lottery wouldn't be too much worse than what we have been getting lately. Keep in mind that all members of congress would also be "winners", so the odds of ambitious people who also think alike all being in power are unlikely.
My work here is, finally, done.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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11/22/2012 2:25:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/22/2012 2:12:03 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 11/22/2012 1:58:41 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 11/22/2012 1:41:17 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 11/21/2012 11:36:53 PM, darkkermit wrote:
How do you think the lawmakers and executive leader should be chosen then?

Lottery, just like jury duty.

so you think the president of the united states should be based on lottery?

I might not be in favor of our current government or Obama, but I can think of a lot of people who I wouldn't want to see in power and would be a lot worse.

Remember a lottery option gives the possibility of royal becoming president of the united states. I think if that occurred, I'd defect to North Korea.

I was trying to be funny, but a true lottery wouldn't be too much worse than what we have been getting lately. Keep in mind that all members of congress would also be "winners", so the odds of ambitious people who also think alike all being in power are unlikely.

yes, but the possibility of stupid people making stupid laws are an even greater possibility as well. Politicians have re-elections to ensure that they won't create overtly stupid laws, but this doesn't go the same with citizens who have no incentive to act rational.

Plus, you have to be at least somewhat smart to run for office. Not genius, but above average intelligence.
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DanT
Posts: 5,693
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11/22/2012 2:56:13 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/22/2012 1:41:17 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 11/21/2012 11:36:53 PM, darkkermit wrote:
How do you think the lawmakers and executive leader should be chosen then?

Lottery, just like jury duty.

Hell no!
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Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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11/25/2012 8:07:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
We need politicians because of a concept called 'the division of labor'. Some people are better at managing money than others, we call those people financial managers; some people are better at teaching than others, we call them teachers and professors; some people are better at lying than others, we call them politicians and lawyers. Each plays a part in contributing a greater total product for the economy.
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DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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11/25/2012 8:33:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Well, because a republic is probably the best system in terms of self government. Direct democracy is far too inefficient, and, to some degree, very exclusionary, whereas an elected administrator or legislator can administer or legislate as a representative of a bigger group of people, and can personally listen to the demands of the minority and keep it in account.
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Or any man that breathes on earth.

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SeniorIntelligentDebator
Posts: 53
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11/26/2012 10:08:00 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/21/2012 10:56:38 PM, Cometflash wrote:
I understand the need of a government, but not the need of politicians.

Because, without politicians, we'd have no authority figures to guide us, and ultimately no democracy.
It always feels like you have a bunch of unqualifying people doing the work. Each field should require the skills necessary to do the job.

That's the very nature of politics. Unqualified people being elected president. Actually, that's one of the obvious downsides of democracy. When you permit the public to decide, what you deem as "unqualified" could be deemed as "qualified" by the majority. Look up elections. They are voted on by the majority. But not all agree with the majority. Thus the word "democracy" and "republic."
But the skills are required and oftentimes they are exceeded. Look up George W. Bush; look up Barack Obama. Look up Abraham Lincoln; look up George Washington. Look up Bill Clinton; look up Ronald Reagen.
It seems that all you need to run the country, or any part of it, is be good at convincing the majority of the people you should run it. They convince them by talks and nothing more. And the talks, probably comes from someone else.

Exactly! That's the very nature of democracy. (See first sentence for more information.)
I remember watching debates from when Obama and McCain was running, and every debate both of them would talk about the same exactly thing they have previewsly done so. It was almost like they memorized their plans, and had no other information outside of that. They were masters at diversion, since they kept going around without answering many questions.
Exactly! The very nature of politics. (See second paragraph for more information.)
It was almost like they were thinking. "Well, I don't have an answer for that, there was nothing about that on my study sheet, let me use my diversion skills and make it about something I did study".

Begining of sentences like, "I'll say this, ...", is almost a promise someone is about to answer what you did not ask for.
SeniorIntelligentDebator
Posts: 53
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11/26/2012 10:09:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/21/2012 11:36:53 PM, darkkermit wrote:
How do you think the lawmakers and executive leader should be chosen then?

There really is no other way. The maker of this forum sounds a bit anarchistic and distrustful of the majority of citizens and ultimately the government.
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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11/27/2012 12:36:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/25/2012 8:07:40 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
We need politicians because of a concept called 'the division of labor'. Some people are better at managing money than others, we call those people financial managers; some people are better at teaching than others, we call them teachers and professors; some people are better at lying than others, we call them politicians and lawyers. Each plays a part in contributing a greater total product for the economy.

I thought my joke was funny :( I guess it was too long.
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imabench
Posts: 21,216
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11/27/2012 12:41:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
We need politicians so that our hard working stand up comedians and late night talk show hosts can sh*t on someone else other then celebrities that nobody will give a sh*t about 10 years from now.....
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RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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11/27/2012 4:38:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
One historian claimed that Woodrow Wilson changed the nature of politics by being the first to campaign on what wonderful things he would accomplish if elected, rather than on the policies that he would implement.

It would help immensely if the press corp were both smart enough to ask tough policy questions and determined enough to get politicians to answer.

Consider: "President Obama, you once said that raising tax rates on the rich would produce little revenue because the rich would evade taxes with loopholes. What has changed?" or "Increased taxes on the rich may at most close 9% of the deficit. What is your plan for other 91%?" These are obvious questions, and the entire press corps ought to be asking them. They don't.

Voters are even less intelligent. It would help if standards for voting were raised. Raising the voting age to 25 would help -- 18 in the military.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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11/27/2012 4:50:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/27/2012 4:38:32 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
One historian claimed that Woodrow Wilson changed the nature of politics by being the first to campaign on what wonderful things he would accomplish if elected, rather than on the policies that he would implement.

It would help immensely if the press corp were both smart enough to ask tough policy questions and determined enough to get politicians to answer.

Consider: "President Obama, you once said that raising tax rates on the rich would produce little revenue because the rich would evade taxes with loopholes. What has changed?" or "Increased taxes on the rich may at most close 9% of the deficit. What is your plan for other 91%?" These are obvious questions, and the entire press corps ought to be asking them. They don't.

Voters are even less intelligent. It would help if standards for voting were raised. Raising the voting age to 25 would help -- 18 in the military.

Why vote at all? Let's just put a Pinochet into power.

18 in the military. LOL, ok. This clearly wasn't an attempt to disenfranchise college voters, who tend to be liberal, and not disenfranchise the young people in the military, who are likely to be conservative.
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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11/27/2012 4:51:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/27/2012 12:36:36 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 11/25/2012 8:07:40 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
We need politicians because of a concept called 'the division of labor'. Some people are better at managing money than others, we call those people financial managers; some people are better at teaching than others, we call them teachers and professors; some people are better at lying than others, we call them politicians and lawyers. Each plays a part in contributing a greater total product for the economy.

I thought my joke was funny :( I guess it was too long.

I got it, don't worry.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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11/27/2012 5:18:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/27/2012 12:36:36 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 11/25/2012 8:07:40 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
We need politicians because of a concept called 'the division of labor'. Some people are better at managing money than others, we call those people financial managers; some people are better at teaching than others, we call them teachers and professors; some people are better at lying than others, we call them politicians and lawyers. Each plays a part in contributing a greater total product for the economy.

I thought my joke was funny :( I guess it was too long.

I loled.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
jat93
Posts: 1,440
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11/27/2012 11:39:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/27/2012 4:51:50 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 11/27/2012 12:36:36 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 11/25/2012 8:07:40 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
We need politicians because of a concept called 'the division of labor'. Some people are better at managing money than others, we call those people financial managers; some people are better at teaching than others, we call them teachers and professors; some people are better at lying than others, we call them politicians and lawyers. Each plays a part in contributing a greater total product for the economy.

I thought my joke was funny :( I guess it was too long.

I got it, don't worry.

Likewise. I actually lol'd. You can only get this joke if you really understand how society works, however. It's all about power. What you stated as a joke is propaganda that those in power use to oppress those who are not in power and keep them as poor, scared, apathetic, unmotivated as possible; this way they won't threaten the status quo, the establishment - which of course is always designed by those in power to protect those in power. Everything you think you know is an illusion planted by those in power over product/company/social institution X to benefit from the ignorant fallacious certainty of the "common man". To keep people from believing in themselves, and in the ability of one person or a small group of people to truly change the world. You can do it, you just need the right people surrounding you, enough patience, passion, and perseverance, and you break through all the propaganda to find the truth of the power of the individual and the choices he or she makes.

WSA, I saw your comment about writing, very intrigued and appreciative, will definitely get back to you tomorrow via PM.

Also, sorry that this doesn't have much to do with the OP. Whatevs, power and those who seek it and how they oppress those who are not in power, I guess it's sort of related.