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Sandy Hook Conspiracy: Actual Evidence

FREEDO
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12/21/2012 9:14:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I wasn't impressed by Geo's "proof". None of you were.

I am making this thread now because I may be in the process of completely changing my mind about this. Which is a radical thing to change your mind about.

The words "Sandy Hook" appearing in Batman is not evidence for anything. This is. Though, not proof. It could be an elaborate fabrication or misunderstanding. But I'm sure you will find it profoundly unsettling in the least.

Where I am currently, I don't think there's any big gun control conspiracy. But it does look plausible that this is a scam generated for the purpose of collecting donation money.

This is the kind of evidence that can be presented in court. And here it is.

Emilie Parker was 6 years old and an alleged victim of the shooting.

For evidence that this isn't a made up person in the conspiracy theory, here is a video posted by ABC news of her funeral proceedings:
http://www.abc4.com...

Also, here is a report by Huffington Post about the victim and here family. It includes the full video of the clip I'm about to show you:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

Now there's the clip. This is a clip of Emilies father. He appears, quite clearly, to be laughing and smiling and then putting himself into character for the interview, apparently not knowing that the cameras were already rolling. It's disturbing in the least.

It could be possible that he's just very bi-polar. Or it's possible that he's a psychopath with no connection to a conspiracy. But I would note how he mentions the donations he's been receiving. Something which the first lady in the Huffington Post video also made a mention of.

The Facebook page for her fund can be found here:
https://www.facebook.com...

Now. It gets weirder. This is the part that gives weight to a larger conspiracy.

Here is a picture of Emilie Parker from The New York Post on the left:
http://www.nypost.com...

Here is a picture from ABC news of Barack Obama meeting with the families of the victims of the memorial. So this is after the shooting, as reported by the source.
http://abcnews.go.com...

As you can see, one of those girls appears to look like Emilie Parker. But not only that. She is also wearing the same dress. You could contend that it is simply a sister of hers. Or a look-a-like who happens to be wearing the same dress. Or that the president happened to meet with the girl before the accident by chance and the time and place of the photo is misreported.

To address the sister theory, here is a picture of their family taken directly from the Facebook page link I provided:
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net...

You can see that none of her sisters look like her to such a degree and are noticeably younger. She is also wearing the same dress again. Actually, I just realized that's the larger version of the other picture but I don't feel like rewriting this. Building up the suspense is fun anyway.

So. There it is. It's certainly made an impression on me. I've never been a conspiracy theorist. And, though there's things I disagree with him on, I've had a good impression of the presidentIs there anyone who can come up with even one reasonable excuse to dismiss this?
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
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12/21/2012 9:37:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/21/2012 9:32:28 PM, drafterman wrote:
I think the two older sisters do look a lot alike.

I'm probably just too focused on how the wife looks like a gremlin.
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fnord
R0b1Billion
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12/21/2012 9:58:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I can't say I am privvy to what conspiracy is supposed to be amiss here, but I can vouch for the man's behavior as completely normal. I've had to deal with having to say thinks while fighting tears before, and this is precisely what happens: you are pretty much fine while avoiding the main subject, and then start to choke up when you have to address exactly what is so emotional. It's actually a pretty weird... You can beat around the bush all you want (and you pretty much have to), and then when you make a run at your point, even if it's just one sentence, it is absolutely impossible to get the words out. This man isn't hyperventilating to get into character, he's simply facing the fact that it's time to speak on something very painful and he's doing everything he can to make it through it. If any of you were in his shoes, you wouldn't be any different, I promise.

The person who created this video simply has not the experience to understand what he or she is commenting about. And frankly I'm starting to tire from all this conspiracy nonsense... 9/11 was somewhat believable but this is starting to become downright tabloid-grade stuff.
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bossyburrito
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12/21/2012 10:02:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/21/2012 9:37:57 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/21/2012 9:32:28 PM, drafterman wrote:
I think the two older sisters do look a lot alike.

I'm probably just too focused on how the wife looks like a gremlin.

Lol

Who's to say that the man in the video is really the father and not an actor? If the father didn't want to go on air, I would think that this would be the next best thing.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
FREEDO
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12/21/2012 10:05:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/21/2012 9:58:59 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
I can't say I am privvy to what conspiracy is supposed to be amiss here, but I can vouch for the man's behavior as completely normal. I've had to deal with having to say thinks while fighting tears before, and this is precisely what happens: you are pretty much fine while avoiding the main subject, and then start to choke up when you have to address exactly what is so emotional. It's actually a pretty weird... You can beat around the bush all you want (and you pretty much have to), and then when you make a run at your point, even if it's just one sentence, it is absolutely impossible to get the words out. This man isn't hyperventilating to get into character, he's simply facing the fact that it's time to speak on something very painful and he's doing everything he can to make it through it. If any of you were in his shoes, you wouldn't be any different, I promise.

The person who created this video simply has not the experience to understand what he or she is commenting about. And frankly I'm starting to tire from all this conspiracy nonsense... 9/11 was somewhat believable but this is starting to become downright tabloid-grade stuff.

I've heard that explanation. I guess I just don't understand it.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
drafterman
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12/21/2012 10:12:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The problem is, I can't view the video be objectively because it is primed to lead me toward the conclusion that it is fake. Like those sound clips of noise/reverse music that claim there are words and meaning. When given the alleged lyrics, you feel that you actually hear it when you probably wouldn't if just given the sound clip without lyrics.

I can't say whether or not I would have found this video suspicious if viewed in isolatin sans prompting.
FREEDO
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12/21/2012 10:17:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/21/2012 10:12:46 PM, drafterman wrote:
The problem is, I can't view the video be objectively because it is primed to lead me toward the conclusion that it is fake. Like those sound clips of noise/reverse music that claim there are words and meaning. When given the alleged lyrics, you feel that you actually hear it when you probably wouldn't if just given the sound clip without lyrics.

I can't say whether or not I would have found this video suspicious if viewed in isolatin sans prompting.

I posted the link to the full video.
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fnord
bossyburrito
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12/21/2012 10:52:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/21/2012 10:12:46 PM, drafterman wrote:
The problem is, I can't view the video be objectively because it is primed to lead me toward the conclusion that it is fake. Like those sound clips of noise/reverse music that claim there are words and meaning. When given the alleged lyrics, you feel that you actually hear it when you probably wouldn't if just given the sound clip without lyrics.

I can't say whether or not I would have found this video suspicious if viewed in isolatin sans prompting.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
RoyLatham
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12/21/2012 11:02:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The first step is to list the people who would have to be involved in the conspiracy. All the first responders, the children who said they saw the shooting (including a group that walked to a random house and eventually told the man there), the medical examiners, the funeral home operators, and the parents. All must lie and none recant. That's implausible.

To figure the probability of a phrase like "Sandy Hook" being in a movie, the total number of potentially identifiable phrases in all popular action movies must be figured. Also, if Newtown or some other associated phase appeared, that would be cited as evidence. If any such words appeared in a popular book, song, or other media that would also be evidence. A way to get a feel for the probability is to pick some random school names and see if a Google search finds a reference in fiction, etc. I suspect the probability is fairly high.
emj32
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12/21/2012 11:10:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/21/2012 11:02:18 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
The first step is to list the people who would have to be involved in the conspiracy. All the first responders, the children who said they saw the shooting (including a group that walked to a random house and eventually told the man there), the medical examiners, the funeral home operators, and the parents. All must lie and none recant. That's implausible.

To figure the probability of a phrase like "Sandy Hook" being in a movie, the total number of potentially identifiable phrases in all popular action movies must be figured. Also, if Newtown or some other associated phase appeared, that would be cited as evidence. If any such words appeared in a popular book, song, or other media that would also be evidence. A way to get a feel for the probability is to pick some random school names and see if a Google search finds a reference in fiction, etc. I suspect the probability is fairly high.

This is why I love Roy
FREEDO
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12/21/2012 11:17:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Good points, roy.

Though I'd like some explanations that specifically address the things I brought up. Rob mentioned that, according to him, the way the father reacted is normal. I want more ideas like that.
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fnord
Oryus
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12/21/2012 11:42:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/21/2012 9:58:59 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
I can't say I am privvy to what conspiracy is supposed to be amiss here, but I can vouch for the man's behavior as completely normal. I've had to deal with having to say thinks while fighting tears before, and this is precisely what happens: you are pretty much fine while avoiding the main subject, and then start to choke up when you have to address exactly what is so emotional. It's actually a pretty weird... You can beat around the bush all you want (and you pretty much have to), and then when you make a run at your point, even if it's just one sentence, it is absolutely impossible to get the words out. This man isn't hyperventilating to get into character, he's simply facing the fact that it's time to speak on something very painful and he's doing everything he can to make it through it. If any of you were in his shoes, you wouldn't be any different, I promise.

The person who created this video simply has not the experience to understand what he or she is commenting about. And frankly I'm starting to tire from all this conspiracy nonsense... 9/11 was somewhat believable but this is starting to become downright tabloid-grade stuff.

This is what I thought.

Had I not been told specifically that he was an actor beforehand, I probably would have thought nothing at all of it. I've been emotionally distraught before and yet capable of laughing at a joke, then when someone asks me what's wrong and I need to talk about the issue, it was difficult to keep my cool. Do we even know what he was laughing at? It could have even been nervous laughter because he was, you know, about to speak on national television about his kid that was just killed.
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Khaos_Mage
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12/22/2012 12:03:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/21/2012 9:58:59 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
I can't say I am privvy to what conspiracy is supposed to be amiss here, but I can vouch for the man's behavior as completely normal. I've had to deal with having to say thinks while fighting tears before, and this is precisely what happens: you are pretty much fine while avoiding the main subject, and then start to choke up when you have to address exactly what is so emotional. It's actually a pretty weird... You can beat around the bush all you want (and you pretty much have to), and then when you make a run at your point, even if it's just one sentence, it is absolutely impossible to get the words out. This man isn't hyperventilating to get into character, he's simply facing the fact that it's time to speak on something very painful and he's doing everything he can to make it through it. If any of you were in his shoes, you wouldn't be any different, I promise.

The person who created this video simply has not the experience to understand what he or she is commenting about. And frankly I'm starting to tire from all this conspiracy nonsense... 9/11 was somewhat believable but this is starting to become downright tabloid-grade stuff.

This, plus the possibility the father doesn't care about his child. After all, there are plenty of callous, cold-hearted parents out there.
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bossyburrito
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12/22/2012 12:50:56 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/22/2012 12:24:22 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Does anyone have anything to say about the second part?

Her sister looks like her.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
FREEDO
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12/22/2012 2:50:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/22/2012 12:50:56 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 12/22/2012 12:24:22 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Does anyone have anything to say about the second part?

Her sister looks like her.

Hmm. Well, Emilie has a hair line to the left and her sister has one to the right:
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net...

The girl in the other photo has one to the left:
http://abcnews.go.com...

Hair lines tend to stay in the same place. But it's possible to comb it otherwise.

Also, her sister doesn't have hair that long. Although I don't know how old the photo is. But it takes a long time for hair to grow that much.
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fnord
bossyburrito
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12/22/2012 3:35:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/22/2012 2:50:27 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/22/2012 12:50:56 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 12/22/2012 12:24:22 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Does anyone have anything to say about the second part?

Her sister looks like her.

Hmm. Well, Emilie has a hair line to the left and her sister has one to the right:
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net...

The girl in the other photo has one to the left:
http://abcnews.go.com...

Hair lines tend to stay in the same place. But it's possible to comb it otherwise.

Also, her sister doesn't have hair that long. Although I don't know how old the photo is. But it takes a long time for hair to grow that much.

Do you have the link to their facebook?
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
FREEDO
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12/22/2012 3:40:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/22/2012 3:35:23 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 12/22/2012 2:50:27 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/22/2012 12:50:56 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 12/22/2012 12:24:22 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Does anyone have anything to say about the second part?

Her sister looks like her.

Hmm. Well, Emilie has a hair line to the left and her sister has one to the right:
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net...

The girl in the other photo has one to the left:
http://abcnews.go.com...

Hair lines tend to stay in the same place. But it's possible to comb it otherwise.

Also, her sister doesn't have hair that long. Although I don't know how old the photo is. But it takes a long time for hair to grow that much.

Do you have the link to their facebook?

Just the fund link. Which I posted.
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fnord
bossyburrito
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12/22/2012 3:42:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/22/2012 3:40:52 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/22/2012 3:35:23 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 12/22/2012 2:50:27 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/22/2012 12:50:56 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 12/22/2012 12:24:22 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Does anyone have anything to say about the second part?

Her sister looks like her.

Hmm. Well, Emilie has a hair line to the left and her sister has one to the right:
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net...

The girl in the other photo has one to the left:
http://abcnews.go.com...

Hair lines tend to stay in the same place. But it's possible to comb it otherwise.

Also, her sister doesn't have hair that long. Although I don't know how old the photo is. But it takes a long time for hair to grow that much.

Do you have the link to their facebook?

Just the fund link. Which I posted.

http://www.cnn.com...
At around 17 seconds there's another photo. They don't look that different there.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
RyuuKyuzo
Posts: 3,074
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12/22/2012 3:55:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
That is some bad acting, but this isn't enough to convince me it's a conspiracy.

My problem with this is the same problem I have with the people saying bombs were placed inside the walls of the twin towers -- I just don't see the reason to do it. If you're going to actually kill a bunch of kids, each with their own set of parents, then why do you need fake parents? Why not just let the real parents go on T.V. and show their real emotions? Did the government think the real parents wouldn't look sad enough? Did they think actors could do it better?

Not to say the government is a particularly competent group of individuals, but this would be a lot of extra work and risk for something they would've already had an authentic version of.
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RyuuKyuzo
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12/22/2012 4:07:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/22/2012 3:42:09 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 12/22/2012 3:40:52 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/22/2012 3:35:23 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 12/22/2012 2:50:27 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/22/2012 12:50:56 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 12/22/2012 12:24:22 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Does anyone have anything to say about the second part?

Her sister looks like her.

Hmm. Well, Emilie has a hair line to the left and her sister has one to the right:
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net...

The girl in the other photo has one to the left:
http://abcnews.go.com...

Hair lines tend to stay in the same place. But it's possible to comb it otherwise.

Also, her sister doesn't have hair that long. Although I don't know how old the photo is. But it takes a long time for hair to grow that much.

Do you have the link to their facebook?

Just the fund link. Which I posted.

http://www.cnn.com...
At around 17 seconds there's another photo. They don't look that different there.

Maybe I'm just seeing things, but that looks like a whole lot of duper's delight on that guys face http://www.ted.com...
If you're reading this, you're awesome and you should feel awesome.
GeoLaureate8
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12/22/2012 4:34:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/21/2012 9:14:35 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I wasn't impressed by Geo's "proof". None of you were.

I never said there was proof of anything related to Sandy Hook being a conspiracy. I said there was proof to the fact that the "Sandy Hook" on the map was "Sandy Hook" the Elementary school. I even said "You don't have top believe there was foreknowledge or conspiracy, but you have to admit that the coincidences are so striking and undeniably eerie."

http://www.debate.org...

And by the way, you said you weren't impressed. Did you even READ the FULL article detailing all the odd connections of Batman and Sandy Hook?

The words "Sandy Hook" appearing in Batman is not evidence for anything.

1. That's NOT the only connection. You clearly didn't read the article. There is a full length in depth analysis of all the connections and anomolies associated with Sandy Hook and Batman. Hey, the word is eerie enough, but it goes further than that.

2. Yes. It's evidence of foreknowledge.

Where I am currently, I don't think there's any big gun control conspiracy. But it does look plausible that this is a scam generated for the purpose of collecting donation money.

The gun control conspiracy is BLATANT. It is a FACT that the government is exploiting this event whether manipulated or not. Democrats even said, let's "exploit" this. Senator Obama said lets ban all guns. Eric Holder before becoming Attorney General said let's "brainwash" people into becoming anti-gun. This is FACT.
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GeoLaureate8
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12/22/2012 4:45:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/21/2012 11:02:18 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
The first step is to list the people who would have to be involved in the conspiracy. All the first responders, the children who said they saw the shooting (including a group that walked to a random house and eventually told the man there), the medical examiners, the funeral home operators, and the parents. All must lie and none recant. That's implausible.

Completely and utterly F.A.L.S.E. Please retract this statement immediately.

To figure the probability of a phrase like "Sandy Hook" being in a movie, the total number of potentially identifiable phrases in all popular action movies must be figured. Also, if Newtown or some other associated phase appeared, that would be cited as evidence. If any such words appeared in a popular book, song, or other media that would also be evidence. A way to get a feel for the probability is to pick some random school names and see if a Google search finds a reference in fiction, etc. I suspect the probability is fairly high.

1. Batman is not just some random action flick. It is a mega-block buster produced by multi-billionaire company Time Warner.

2. Sandy Hook is not a common name for a school. It is also the name of a school that was massacred. You are suggesting that you take an school name and any move name and see the likelyhood that you'll find the random school movie in a random flick. Problem is some Elementary school names are more common than others. If an elementary school name is Johnson Elementary and the word "Johnson" appeared in a movie, of course that's not a striking coincidence now is it.

3. It is not just that Sandy Hook appeared in the movie, it's about the WAY it appeared in the movie and the context. Sandy Hook was written in big letters on a map where everything else is illegible, Gordon put's his finger on it and says let's figure out how to take it down. Sandy Hook was also renamed from "South Hinkley." The location of Sandy Hook on the Gotham map is where Bain blew up the school football field. I could go on and on. The likelihood that you'd find these types of coincidences in other movies and schools is next to none.

4. Granted, none of this is 100% proof, but it is evidence. The idea is that it either indicates foreknowledge or that it was put there intentionally to send subliminal messages hoping somebody picks up on it and acts based on the subconscious implant.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
drafterman
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12/22/2012 5:18:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/21/2012 10:17:07 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/21/2012 10:12:46 PM, drafterman wrote:
The problem is, I can't view the video be objectively because it is primed to lead me toward the conclusion that it is fake. Like those sound clips of noise/reverse music that claim there are words and meaning. When given the alleged lyrics, you feel that you actually hear it when you probably wouldn't if just given the sound clip without lyrics.

I can't say whether or not I would have found this video suspicious if viewed in isolatin sans prompting.

I posted the link to the full video.

Right, but I watched the one embedded in your post first so it's too late.
Microsuck
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12/22/2012 11:55:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/22/2012 4:45:08 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 12/21/2012 11:02:18 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
The first step is to list the people who would have to be involved in the conspiracy. All the first responders, the children who said they saw the shooting (including a group that walked to a random house and eventually told the man there), the medical examiners, the funeral home operators, and the parents. All must lie and none recant. That's implausible.

Completely and utterly F.A.L.S.E. Please retract this statement.

Yet you never explained why Roy is wrong.
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FREEDO
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12/22/2012 7:02:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/22/2012 11:55:40 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 12/22/2012 4:45:08 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 12/21/2012 11:02:18 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
The first step is to list the people who would have to be involved in the conspiracy. All the first responders, the children who said they saw the shooting (including a group that walked to a random house and eventually told the man there), the medical examiners, the funeral home operators, and the parents. All must lie and none recant. That's implausible.

Completely and utterly F.A.L.S.E. Please retract this statement.

Yet you never explained why Roy is wrong.

Exactly my thought. Though I do agree. Not all those people need to be involved for a conspiracy. And it isn't necessarily true that all those roles were actually involved. It could just be made to look that way.
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iamnotwhoiam
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12/22/2012 9:08:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Yep this is the kind of thing conspiracy theories are made of. Wild speculation about a couple of unremarkable things. Grieving men smile and little blonde girls don't look that dissimilar to other little blonde girls.
Maikuru
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12/22/2012 9:31:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/21/2012 9:14:35 PM, FREEDO wrote:

Now there's the clip. This is a clip of Emilies father. He appears, quite clearly, to be laughing and smiling and then putting himself into character for the interview, apparently not knowing that the cameras were already rolling. It's disturbing in the least.

I didn't check any of the little girl links but you think an actor would walk out in front of a press conference without thinking the cameras were rolling?
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Anti-atheist
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12/22/2012 9:35:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
what if the conspiracy is only with the parker family? If there daughter didn't die and they're just pretending like she did to get $$$
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