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It is illegal to sell raw milk in many states

1dustpelt
Posts: 1,970
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12/31/2012 2:54:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
We can eat all the processed foods we want, but raw milk is illegal to sell.
http://www.timesdispatch.com...

Stupid government, I am starting to agree with Geo. Government should stop sticking their nose everywhere.
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Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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12/31/2012 3:08:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/31/2012 2:54:16 PM, 1dustpelt wrote:
We can eat all the processed foods we want, but raw milk is illegal to sell.
http://www.timesdispatch.com...

Stupid government, I am starting to agree with Geo. Government should stop sticking their nose everywhere.

In a lot of states (or at least mine), you cannot sell raw nuts either.

Of course, those who championed smoking bans seem to have a problem with this, ironically.
My work here is, finally, done.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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12/31/2012 3:19:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
because there's a ton of diseases you can get from raw milk:

http://www.cdc.gov...

How often do you hear about people getting bacteria infections from processed food? Almost none.

There's no question that drinking raw milk is way more dangerous then eating processed food.
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OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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12/31/2012 3:20:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
We drink raw milk at our house, and it's fine. We buy it from a farmer that puts a "not for human consumption" label on it, so it's legal.
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Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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12/31/2012 3:22:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/31/2012 3:19:10 PM, darkkermit wrote:
because there's a ton of diseases you can get from raw milk:
That does not justify a ban.

How often do you hear about people getting bacteria infections from processed food? Almost none.
Nope, but research shows a long list of illnesses occurring in the long term, e.g., cancer.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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12/31/2012 3:24:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/31/2012 3:22:25 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 12/31/2012 3:19:10 PM, darkkermit wrote:
because there's a ton of diseases you can get from raw milk:
That does not justify a ban.

How often do you hear about people getting bacteria infections from processed food? Almost none.
Nope, but research shows a long list of illnesses occurring in the long term, e.g., cancer.

Yeah, but cancer is the long-term illness of everything, is it not?
Wine causes breast cancer.
Smoking causes lung cancer.
Preservatives cause cancer.

Perhaps life just causes cancer.
My work here is, finally, done.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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12/31/2012 3:25:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/31/2012 3:22:25 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 12/31/2012 3:19:10 PM, darkkermit wrote:
because there's a ton of diseases you can get from raw milk:
That does not justify a ban.

What would?


How often do you hear about people getting bacteria infections from processed food? Almost none.
Nope, but research shows a long list of illnesses occurring in the long term, e.g., cancer.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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12/31/2012 3:27:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/31/2012 3:25:31 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/31/2012 3:22:25 PM, Mirza wrote:
That does not justify a ban.

What would?
That's for you to explain Ma'am.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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12/31/2012 3:28:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/31/2012 3:24:53 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Yeah, but cancer is the long-term illness of everything, is it not?
Irrelevant. If processed food is proven to cause cancer, then the ban-everything proponents have a case for ban.

Wine causes breast cancer.
Smoking causes lung cancer.
Preservatives cause cancer.

Perhaps life just causes cancer.
Hmm -- not brushing teeth causes bacteria build-up. And innumerable other activities. So the logic against banning processed food is the same against banning raw milk.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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12/31/2012 3:29:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/31/2012 3:24:53 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/31/2012 3:22:25 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 12/31/2012 3:19:10 PM, darkkermit wrote:
because there's a ton of diseases you can get from raw milk:
That does not justify a ban.

How often do you hear about people getting bacteria infections from processed food? Almost none.
Nope, but research shows a long list of illnesses occurring in the long term, e.g., cancer.

Yeah, but cancer is the long-term illness of everything, is it not?
Wine causes breast cancer.
Smoking causes lung cancer.
Preservatives cause cancer.

Perhaps life just causes cancer.

everything causes and cures cancer.

And the studies done on what does and doesn't cause cancer are usually quite inconclusive due to the selective bias that occurs from such studies.
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darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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12/31/2012 3:30:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
most people that eat processed food also tend to have unhealthy lifestyles that would cause cancer. Unless the studies actually show direct relationship of how processed foods can cause genetic mutations, I don't see how one can draw conclusions that processed foods cause cancer.
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Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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12/31/2012 3:33:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/31/2012 3:30:45 PM, darkkermit wrote:
most people that eat processed food also tend to have unhealthy lifestyles that would cause cancer. Unless the studies actually show direct relationship of how processed foods can cause genetic mutations, I don't see how one can draw conclusions that processed foods cause cancer.
There are studies which show more data than correlation-causation. I loathe such studies, but there are plenty good ones done on processed food, even meat. Some Harvard research groups have done numerous studies on the effects on meat consumption, and based on close study of regular vs processed meat intake, one study showed severe negative health effects from processed meat in contrast to normal meat, which wasn't shown to have significant negative health impacts.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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12/31/2012 3:41:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/31/2012 3:33:03 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 12/31/2012 3:30:45 PM, darkkermit wrote:
most people that eat processed food also tend to have unhealthy lifestyles that would cause cancer. Unless the studies actually show direct relationship of how processed foods can cause genetic mutations, I don't see how one can draw conclusions that processed foods cause cancer.
There are studies which show more data than correlation-causation. I loathe such studies, but there are plenty good ones done on processed food, even meat. Some Harvard research groups have done numerous studies on the effects on meat consumption, and based on close study of regular vs processed meat intake, one study showed severe negative health effects from processed meat in contrast to normal meat, which wasn't shown to have significant negative health impacts.

I'm actually looking at the studies now, and it seems that you are indeed correct that it is more then just a correlation. Although just because its statistically significant, the question is what the practical importance is and at what economic cost it would come at.

And besides, as the great Randy Marsh said "just getting a little bit of cancer is okay". He won in a noble prize.
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Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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12/31/2012 3:49:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/31/2012 3:28:51 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 12/31/2012 3:24:53 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Yeah, but cancer is the long-term illness of everything, is it not?
Irrelevant. If processed food is proven to cause cancer, then the ban-everything proponents have a case for ban.

My point is, unless cancer occurs within weeks of such ingestion, I believe it is difficult to claim that one of billions of variables in the course of, say 20 years, was the cause of a disease.

Wine causes breast cancer.
Smoking causes lung cancer.
Preservatives cause cancer.

Perhaps life just causes cancer.
Hmm -- not brushing teeth causes bacteria build-up. And innumerable other activities. So the logic against banning processed food is the same against banning raw milk.

For the record, I am not a proponant of banning raw milk, nuts, or much of anything, really.
My work here is, finally, done.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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12/31/2012 3:53:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
@Mirza Do you really believe that there should be no bans on foods or drugs? How about cancerous gases for workers? Complete free-for-all as well?
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Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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12/31/2012 3:56:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/31/2012 3:53:51 PM, darkkermit wrote:
@Mirza Do you really believe that there should be no bans on foods or drugs? How about cancerous gases for workers? Complete free-for-all as well?
I believe in ideological law, so these matters are trivial to me. I'm not sure what position I should take within the traditional framework of law. (If you asked me a couple of years ago I'd be for a complete ban though.)
RyuuKyuzo
Posts: 3,074
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12/31/2012 4:08:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/31/2012 3:24:53 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/31/2012 3:22:25 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 12/31/2012 3:19:10 PM, darkkermit wrote:
because there's a ton of diseases you can get from raw milk:
That does not justify a ban.

How often do you hear about people getting bacteria infections from processed food? Almost none.
Nope, but research shows a long list of illnesses occurring in the long term, e.g., cancer.

Yeah, but cancer is the long-term illness of everything, is it not?
Wine causes breast cancer.
Smoking causes lung cancer.
Preservatives cause cancer.

Perhaps life just causes cancer.

A doctor buddy of mine once told me that all men are dying of prostate cancer, it's just a matter of if something else happens to kill you first.
If you're reading this, you're awesome and you should feel awesome.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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12/31/2012 4:28:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/31/2012 4:08:36 PM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
At 12/31/2012 3:24:53 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/31/2012 3:22:25 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 12/31/2012 3:19:10 PM, darkkermit wrote:
because there's a ton of diseases you can get from raw milk:
That does not justify a ban.

How often do you hear about people getting bacteria infections from processed food? Almost none.
Nope, but research shows a long list of illnesses occurring in the long term, e.g., cancer.

Yeah, but cancer is the long-term illness of everything, is it not?
Wine causes breast cancer.
Smoking causes lung cancer.
Preservatives cause cancer.

Perhaps life just causes cancer.

A doctor buddy of mine once told me that all men are dying of prostate cancer, it's just a matter of if something else happens to kill you first.

I honestly believe cancer is natural, more or less.
Basically, cells divide, but if one single cell becomes damaged (like a retarded cell), it will divide equally damaged cells. Therefore, cancer is a degenerative disease. After all, who dies of "old age" anymore?

Obviously, if something damages cells, like a carcenigenic gas or asbestos, it is more likely to aid in retarded cells existing, thus reproducing. But cancer is still a natural occurance, thus it cannot be cured, except by removing the damaged cells.
My work here is, finally, done.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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12/31/2012 4:32:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/31/2012 4:28:49 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/31/2012 4:08:36 PM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
At 12/31/2012 3:24:53 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/31/2012 3:22:25 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 12/31/2012 3:19:10 PM, darkkermit wrote:
because there's a ton of diseases you can get from raw milk:
That does not justify a ban.

How often do you hear about people getting bacteria infections from processed food? Almost none.
Nope, but research shows a long list of illnesses occurring in the long term, e.g., cancer.

Yeah, but cancer is the long-term illness of everything, is it not?
Wine causes breast cancer.
Smoking causes lung cancer.
Preservatives cause cancer.

Perhaps life just causes cancer.

A doctor buddy of mine once told me that all men are dying of prostate cancer, it's just a matter of if something else happens to kill you first.

I honestly believe cancer is natural, more or less.
Basically, cells divide, but if one single cell becomes damaged (like a retarded cell), it will divide equally damaged cells. Therefore, cancer is a degenerative disease. After all, who dies of "old age" anymore?

Obviously, if something damages cells, like a carcenigenic gas or asbestos, it is more likely to aid in retarded cells existing, thus reproducing. But cancer is still a natural occurance, thus it cannot be cured, except by removing the damaged cells.

Actually, it is completely natural. When our cells reproduce, it can't sequence the last nucleotide at the end of the DNA. So each time your cells replicate it loses a nucleotide. Now most of its nonsense, but with enough replication it causes actual genetic problems, which leads to stuff like old age and cancer.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...