Total Posts:27|Showing Posts:1-27
Jump to topic:

Ben Shapiro on Piers Morgan

lewis20
Posts: 5,093
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/10/2013 9:48:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Here is an actual good debate on gun control, crazy what happens when piers challenges himself with articulate, well mannered opponents.
Of course forget the fact that he sandwiched the interview on both sides with multiple gun control guests.
Shapiro spoke the truth, the second amendment is to protect the people from the government.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/10/2013 9:50:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Part two, might overlap some.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/10/2013 9:52:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I love this guy. Such a sharp contrast to the walking windbag they had on the other day, also known as Alex Jones.

I'll get a list of quotes that I loved.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
airmax1227
Posts: 13,240
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/10/2013 10:08:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Like I said in the other thread, Ben Shapiro comes off as a reasonable person and he made good arguments in favor of his position. Morgan not so much as he seemed to just ignore much of what Shapiro was saying while he deflected into pointless arguments like the 'left vs right' political aspects, and whatever Ronald Regan thinks, as though that matters at all. He mostly just dismissed Shapiro's points as nonsense without really countering it in any way.

Shapiro's strongest arguments went entirely ignored by Morgan who simply dismissed the idea of governments becoming tyrannical as impossible. While this 'reality' doesn't necessarily make the case that people should be able to own automatic weapons, Morgans deflection of the argument just makes Morgan's position seem less credible.

I haven't watched Morgan much, but based on this interview with his lack of quality responses, general deflections, and the really weird need to have props like 6 boxes of sudafed on hand makes me think he must generally lack substance.
Debate.org Moderator
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/10/2013 10:10:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Ya the absurdity of some drug laws is a completely different issue and piers is trying to mash the issues together.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/10/2013 10:20:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
1:00 - Piers makes some point on "They had assault rifles", Ben easily counters that with essentially "Lack of Assault Rifle =/= Unable to do crime."

1:40 - Not sure what Piers was planning with the point that drugs being unavailable, but AR-15's and ammo being available is "bad", for some reason. Once again, loved Ben's response "What would make sense is laws that are calibrated to solve the problem."

2:00 - "Do you understand how an AR-15 performs when its been modified?" Yeah, Pier's that why its, get this, ILLEGAL. Derp.

2:18 - Ben once again destroys Pier's "argument" with prejudice, while still looking far more intelligent and polite. As he is obviously. Pier's then, once again, changes the topic almost as fast as Ben destroys his arguments.

3:22 - "Oh, come on here, you tend to be more to the left." Dang, he has restraint. I would have been all Alex Jones-ing up in his face screaming that he's in the far lefts pocket.

3:53 - Pwnt.

5:21 - OMG. Pier's made an actual good point. I didn't think it could be done. Still, irrelevant to the actual discussion, only proves that its not solely the left that wants to ban guns. Also, it doesn't say anything for nowadays.

5:48-6:00 - My God Piers.....you are such an @$$. Just, go back to England. We have no need for you here.

6:24 - All the anarchists in this site just smashed their keyboards at this part. And me. Piers do YOU understand how absurd YOU sound?

6:58 - Piers gets destroyed again. Ben is awesome again. And Piers changes the subject as soon as he has his views challenged.....again.

8:31(end of first video) - Piers has a knack for making himself look like a ignorant idiot, while making his opponent look like the most reasonable person ever, doesn't he? I mean, it took gosh dang Alex Jones, friggen Alex Jones, to make him look intelligent and reasonable.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
airmax1227
Posts: 13,240
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/10/2013 10:20:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/10/2013 10:10:44 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Ya the absurdity of some drug laws is a completely different issue and piers is trying to mash the issues together.

Yeah... Pointing to the sudafed issue really wasn't a good argument (in my mind), especially when it relates to consistency in differing laws... But what makes it even weirder and more ridiculous is that he planned on it. He actually knew he was going to make an argument that gun laws should be consistent with laws pertaining to other things (even more so if one concludes the other law is ridiculous), and made sure to have 6 boxes of sudafed on him... It's just really weird that he thought having props would really drive the message home.. "I can't buy "these" 6 boxes of sudafed but I can buy a gun"... as though the prop was going to matter...

Who is this guy, Carrot Top?
Debate.org Moderator
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/10/2013 10:26:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Is anyone actually defending Morgan's debate skills?

Alex Jones sucked=/= Morgan could beat someone who has 100 IQ and wishes to influence mainstream viewers
airmax1227
Posts: 13,240
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/10/2013 10:32:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/10/2013 10:26:49 PM, Wnope wrote:
Is anyone actually defending Morgan's debate skills?

CNN?

Alex Jones sucked=/= Morgan could beat someone who has 100 IQ and wishes to influence mainstream viewers

I'm surprised CNN doesn't bring Alex Jones on all the time to make Morgan seem like a reasonable journalist. My first impression of him was from that Jones interview, but now that I've seen a couple more clips of him its clear he's just a hack... So I guess he fits in well on a cable news channel.
Debate.org Moderator
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/10/2013 11:18:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Gawd that was painful. A few thoughts:

-Shapiro should have spent more time pressing Morgan for his inconsistency in support for assault rifle bans/opposition to handgun bans. Morgan kind of got away from that when he turned the discussion to Democide. He did a good job bringing it up later on though and Morgan's response was priceless. "Because I believe in respect for American's right under the Second Amendment of the Constitution....to defend themselves with a pistol."

-While the supporting evidence wasn't lacking on the Democide point, Shapiro is still acting inconsistently. An assault rifle isn't gonna stop a tank which I would only expect in an instance of domestic quasi-military occupation by the government. The problem is supporting people's rights to own tanks and rocket launchers just turns one off to the public eye, soundness of the view being irrelevant in this respect.

-Shapiro's "guns for good people, no guns for bad people" argument seemed naive on the face (his presentation wasn't that good) but he didn't respond well to Morgan's singular example to the contrary. Instead of trying to fit the example into his position he should have just admitted that exceptions exist and turned with a counter that straight gun bans also don't work in innumerable scenarios.

-Morgan's point about the seeming discrepency between drug and gun laws was irrelevant. Supporting gun rights =/= supporting current drug laws. Also, the most fervent gun right supports (libertarians), would likely be the pro side on both lifting restrictions on drugs and guns.

-It was entertaining when Morgan brought up permits/background checks, etc. as an argument and Shapiro agreed and elaborated on the point. I mean I disagree with him but the way Morgan turned away to move on after it became evident there was no fight was humorous.

-Morgan's Reagan point was retarded. It kind of reminds me of the argument for progressive taxation based on Reagan's views. Unless the person you're arguing with has professed belief in Reagan's omniscience, you're not proving anything. I know conservatives are hot on Reagan but the argument is akin to me trying to persuade a Democrat into supporting the draft because all the "great" Democrats supported it (i.e., Wilson, Roosevelt, Kennedy, Johnson, etc.)

-The "Need" point by Morgan was dumb (who needs cheeseburgers, who needs cigarettes, who needs purple dildoes?) but it draws in on Shapiro's "Democide" point which, referred to above, has problems of it's own.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/10/2013 11:18:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Tl;dr: I feel dumber after watching this.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/10/2013 11:44:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/10/2013 11:18:26 PM, socialpinko wrote:
Tl;dr: I feel dumber after watching this.

It was a piers Morgan interview, did you have high hopes going in?
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/10/2013 11:52:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/10/2013 11:44:41 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 1/10/2013 11:18:26 PM, socialpinko wrote:
Tl;dr: I feel dumber after watching this.

It was a piers Morgan interview, did you have high hopes going in?

Meh, Pierce Morgan seems to be all the rage lately. I figured I should chime in even if doing so kills a few brain cells.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/11/2013 3:24:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I like the interview, Ben Shapiro did good.

But that doesn't detract from Alex Jones tactic. Larry Pratt was reasonable, Jesse Ventura was reasonable, Ted Nugent was reasonable. By then Piers has already faced with all the good arguments and facts and so it was time for Alex Jones to smack Piers Morgan down for not submitting to reason.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/11/2013 10:59:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/10/2013 9:48:47 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Here is an actual good debate on gun control, crazy what happens when piers challenges himself with articulate, well mannered opponents.
Of course forget the fact that he sandwiched the interview on both sides with multiple gun control guests.
Shapiro spoke the truth, the second amendment is to protect the people from the government.


Great! Shapiro made Morgan look like Alex Jones! Near total domination by Shapiro. The only weak point was Shapiro's use of good/bad people but he apologized to Morgan for his mistake and quickly corrected himself by using responsible/irresponsible instead.
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
DanT
Posts: 5,693
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/11/2013 4:02:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/10/2013 9:48:47 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Here is an actual good debate on gun control, crazy what happens when piers challenges himself with articulate, well mannered opponents.
Of course forget the fact that he sandwiched the interview on both sides with multiple gun control guests.
Shapiro spoke the truth, the second amendment is to protect the people from the government.


I disagree with both of them. Why should people with mental illness or people with family members who have mental illness become second class citizens? Unless they have been convicted of a crime by a jury of their peers, constitutionally they cannot be deprived of their natural human rights. Both the guest and the host are ignoring the fact that acquiring, possessing, and defending property/guns are natural rights, not legal rights.

More than 50% of the US population has some form of mental illness. Prohibitting people with a history of mental illness from purchasing guns, does not prevent people with mental illness from obtaining firearms; all it does is deter people from seeking mental health. Instead of having medicated mentally ill gun owners, you are pushing for unmedicated mentally ill gun owners; where is the logic in that I ask you?

At the same time the guest makes a good point. The host is standing on the graves of the victims in order to gain support for his political crusade. He is specifically targeting "assault" weapons, even though "assault" weapons are not responsible for the most deaths. He is only calling for an "assault" weapons ban, so he can use the mass shootings for political gain. While listing off mass shootings that used "assault" weapons (with the propaganda technique known as "card stacking"), he mentioned cases where the shooters had illegally purchased "assault" weapons off the black market; in most if not all of those cases the guns were obtained by illegal means (theft or black market).
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
TheElderScroll
Posts: 643
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/11/2013 8:15:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Shapiro's arguments concerning democratic and tyrannical government are compelling. Alex Johns actually made the similar arguments, albeit in a very distinctive style (screaming).
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/12/2013 12:28:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Shapiro did as well as is possible with Morgan. Note Morgan's "You still haven't answered my question..." after Morgan had already answered it repeatedly.

One question that wasn't pressed, and clearly Shapiro didn't have a chance to do it, is to ask for a definition of an "assault rifle." When laws are written to ban assault rifles they are written based upon the appearance of the weapon, not it's function. The function is a .22 caliber semi-automatic, less lethal than most hunting rifles. What's banned is a pistol grip, cut out stock, place to attach a bayonet, etc. A ban on appearance is pointless, and the ten year ban once tried did nothing.

Morgan started talking about banning semi-automatics, which is automatic loading of the next bullet. The semi-automatic feature is needed for self-defense and for hunting, because no one knows ahead of time how many shots it will take to get a kill. Note that pump action shot guns, revolvers, and Gattling guns are all manual.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,251
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/12/2013 12:37:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/12/2013 12:28:43 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
Shapiro did as well as is possible with Morgan. Note Morgan's "You still haven't answered my question..." after Morgan had already answered it repeatedly.

One question that wasn't pressed, and clearly Shapiro didn't have a chance to do it, is to ask for a definition of an "assault rifle." When laws are written to ban assault rifles they are written based upon the appearance of the weapon, not it's function. The function is a .22 caliber semi-automatic, less lethal than most hunting rifles. What's banned is a pistol grip, cut out stock, place to attach a bayonet, etc. A ban on appearance is pointless, and the ten year ban once tried did nothing.

Morgan started talking about banning semi-automatics, which is automatic loading of the next bullet. The semi-automatic feature is needed for self-defense and for hunting, because no one knows ahead of time how many shots it will take to get a kill. Note that pump action shot guns, revolvers, and Gattling guns are all manual.

Can you imagine having a home defense gatling gun in the future :D
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/12/2013 1:21:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/11/2013 4:02:56 PM, DanT wrote:
More than 50% of the US population has some form of mental illness.

Lol. Temporary depression and anxiety does not constitute a mental illness in the sense of how everybody talks about it.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/12/2013 1:27:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Ya Morgan, as with a lot of those calling for semi auto bans, don't realize what that entails. any ban passed will most likely be cosmetic only, as that seems to be all that bothers people. Maybe a restriction on magazine size but in reality forcing someone to reload 2 or 3 times won't put a dent in gun homicide numbers.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/12/2013 1:41:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/12/2013 1:21:47 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 1/11/2013 4:02:56 PM, DanT wrote:
More than 50% of the US population has some form of mental illness.

Lol. Temporary depression and anxiety does not constitute a mental illness in the sense of how everybody talks about it.
Those are mental disorders, not illnesses.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/12/2013 1:43:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Did Morgan ever get back to Shapiro on why he does not support banning handguns, despite the fact that they are used more than assault rifles to kill people?
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/12/2013 1:46:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/12/2013 1:43:16 PM, Mirza wrote:
Did Morgan ever get back to Shapiro on why he does not support banning handguns, despite the fact that they are used more than assault rifles to kill people?

He never did, he doesn't actually care as much about gun homicide rates as he does sensationalizing the issue and promoting himself.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Yarely
Posts: 329
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/12/2013 2:02:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago

6:24 - All the anarchists in this site just smashed their keyboards at this part. And me. Piers do YOU understand how absurd YOU sound?


Haha so true! That's exactly what I did in that part. Jesus how ignorant can Piers Morgan get?
"Anarchism stands for the liberation of the human mind from the dominion of religion and liberation of the human body from the coercion of property; liberation from the shackles and restraint of government. It stands for a social order based on the free grouping of individuals""
-Emma Goldman
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/16/2013 8:29:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Haha piers is one upping himself, right now I'm watching him have a shouting match with two girls who are against assault weapon bans.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/16/2013 10:51:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/11/2013 3:24:24 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I like the interview, Ben Shapiro did good.

But that doesn't detract from Alex Jones tactic. Larry Pratt was reasonable, Jesse Ventura was reasonable, Ted Nugent was reasonable. By then Piers has already faced with all the good arguments and facts and so it was time for Alex Jones to smack Piers Morgan down for not submitting to reason.

Geo, you just don't see it... Alex Jones is a plant by the globalists to make people think that opposing gun control, central banking, and globalism will turn them into crazies like Alex Jones.
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.