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White house responds to secession petition

darkkermit
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1/12/2013 1:53:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov...

tl;dr: they said no.

Although I hate the bs of the response. They don't even give any good justification for the union. Just states that "its been established since the civil war that the states are in perpetual union" and its the will of the constitution that the union stay together and all the bs.
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darkkermit
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1/12/2013 1:54:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Like any debater on DDO with a mediocre debate record could shatter their "argument". And this had a delayed response.
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OberHerr
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1/12/2013 1:56:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
B-b-but prewsidant Lincoln whas such a good prewsidant. He freed da slaves. So, he has to be right.
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malcolmxy
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1/12/2013 2:04:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I like just below that, "deport anyone who signed the petition to to have their state secede from the union".

If you're serious about this, each state has a process of secession. Last I checked, Vermont was the closest (like step 3 of 10) state to actually seceding.

For all their blustering, Texas has never come close.

I liked the petition thing, but it was kind of a waste of time since it held no weight, and each state has a true way to secede should their citizens push for it hard enough (shouldn't require violence, but it could, I suppose)
War is over, if you want it.

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darkkermit
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1/12/2013 2:05:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
there are real arguments that can be made in favor of unionism:

easy mobility between states, free trade, federal government has greater degree of economic of scale, stronger military power united and greater international power as a large nation.

Not that I necessarily agree with all the arguments or believe that the good outweighs the bad but none of these benefits are even mentioned.
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darkkermit
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1/12/2013 2:12:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/12/2013 2:04:48 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
I like just below that, "deport anyone who signed the petition to to have their state secede from the union".

If you're serious about this, each state has a process of secession. Last I checked, Vermont was the closest (like step 3 of 10) state to actually seceding.

For all their blustering, Texas has never come close.

I liked the petition thing, but it was kind of a waste of time since it held no weight, and each state has a true way to secede should their citizens push for it hard enough (shouldn't require violence, but it could, I suppose)

But Texas is more likely to succeed if it decides to become a state. Vermont is a landlocked state, so all America has to do is convince Canada to withhold imports to Vermont and they're screwed. They'd have to rely on Canadian ports and US ports in order to export any goods/services too. Plus Vermont's population is way too low. Oh and Vermont doesn't have any military bases while Texas does.
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malcolmxy
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1/12/2013 2:17:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
In terms of total federal dollars, including dollars spent via government contracts, Texas receives more federal money than any other state in the union (total dollars, not per capita).

If there is one state left in the union, Texas will be the United State of America.

They're about as likely to leave the union as I am to enjoy a professional women's basketball game.
War is over, if you want it.

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lewis20
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1/12/2013 2:22:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Best part.

"more than 600,000 Americans died in a long and bloody civil war that vindicated the principle that the Constitution establishes a permanent union between the States."

So if you can get a 600,000 Americans killed in your effort to break up the union, that would be a vindication of the states right to succeed.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

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DoctorDeku
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1/12/2013 2:32:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/12/2013 2:04:48 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
I like just below that, "deport anyone who signed the petition to to have their state secede from the union".

If you're serious about this, each state has a process of secession. Last I checked, Vermont was the closest (like step 3 of 10) state to actually seceding.

For all their blustering, <b>Texas has never come close.</b>

I liked the petition thing, but it was kind of a waste of time since it held no weight, and each state has a true way to secede should their citizens push for it hard enough (shouldn't require violence, but it could, I suppose)

Malcom, Texas was one of the two states in the union that willingly joined the US while being it's own sovereign nation, the other being Hawaii. I'd like to see you justify that Texas has never come close to having the right to succeed with an effective warrant.

I will clarify that I don't think Texas should succeed, but I do thing they have the right to do so.

(If we did succeed though we'd be able to tackle our border issues)
darkkermit
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1/12/2013 2:45:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/12/2013 2:22:51 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Best part.

"more than 600,000 Americans died in a long and bloody civil war that vindicated the principle that the Constitution establishes a permanent union between the States."

So if you can get a 600,000 Americans killed in your effort to break up the union, that would be a vindication of the states right to succeed.

Yep, "might makes right".
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bossyburrito
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1/12/2013 2:50:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/12/2013 2:12:59 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/12/2013 2:04:48 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
I like just below that, "deport anyone who signed the petition to to have their state secede from the union".

If you're serious about this, each state has a process of secession. Last I checked, Vermont was the closest (like step 3 of 10) state to actually seceding.

For all their blustering, Texas has never come close.

I liked the petition thing, but it was kind of a waste of time since it held no weight, and each state has a true way to secede should their citizens push for it hard enough (shouldn't require violence, but it could, I suppose)

But Texas is more likely to succeed if it decides to become a state. Vermont is a landlocked state, so all America has to do is convince Canada to withhold imports to Vermont and they're screwed. They'd have to rely on Canadian ports and US ports in order to export any goods/services too. Plus Vermont's population is way too low. Oh and Vermont doesn't have any military bases while Texas does.

You really think Canada will do that?
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

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OberHerr
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1/12/2013 2:52:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/12/2013 2:50:58 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 1/12/2013 2:12:59 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/12/2013 2:04:48 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
I like just below that, "deport anyone who signed the petition to to have their state secede from the union".

If you're serious about this, each state has a process of secession. Last I checked, Vermont was the closest (like step 3 of 10) state to actually seceding.

For all their blustering, Texas has never come close.

I liked the petition thing, but it was kind of a waste of time since it held no weight, and each state has a true way to secede should their citizens push for it hard enough (shouldn't require violence, but it could, I suppose)

But Texas is more likely to succeed if it decides to become a state. Vermont is a landlocked state, so all America has to do is convince Canada to withhold imports to Vermont and they're screwed. They'd have to rely on Canadian ports and US ports in order to export any goods/services too. Plus Vermont's population is way too low. Oh and Vermont doesn't have any military bases while Texas does.

You really think Canada will do that?

We buy a massive amount from them.
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darkkermit
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1/12/2013 2:52:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/12/2013 2:50:58 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 1/12/2013 2:12:59 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/12/2013 2:04:48 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
I like just below that, "deport anyone who signed the petition to to have their state secede from the union".

If you're serious about this, each state has a process of secession. Last I checked, Vermont was the closest (like step 3 of 10) state to actually seceding.

For all their blustering, Texas has never come close.

I liked the petition thing, but it was kind of a waste of time since it held no weight, and each state has a true way to secede should their citizens push for it hard enough (shouldn't require violence, but it could, I suppose)

But Texas is more likely to succeed if it decides to become a state. Vermont is a landlocked state, so all America has to do is convince Canada to withhold imports to Vermont and they're screwed. They'd have to rely on Canadian ports and US ports in order to export any goods/services too. Plus Vermont's population is way too low. Oh and Vermont doesn't have any military bases while Texas does.

You really think Canada will do that?

do what?
Open borders debate:
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bossyburrito
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1/12/2013 2:57:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/12/2013 2:32:15 PM, DoctorDeku wrote:
At 1/12/2013 2:04:48 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
I like just below that, "deport anyone who signed the petition to to have their state secede from the union".

If you're serious about this, each state has a process of secession. Last I checked, Vermont was the closest (like step 3 of 10) state to actually seceding.

For all their blustering, <b>Texas has never come close.</b>

I liked the petition thing, but it was kind of a waste of time since it held no weight, and each state has a true way to secede should their citizens push for it hard enough (shouldn't require violence, but it could, I suppose)

Malcom, Texas was one of the two states in the union that willingly joined the US while being it's own sovereign nation, the other being Hawaii. I'd like to see you justify that Texas has never come close to having the right to succeed with an effective warrant.

I will clarify that I don't think Texas should succeed, but I do thing they have the right to do so.

(If we did succeed though we'd be able to tackle our border issues)

Pretty sure Vermont was too.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
bossyburrito
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1/12/2013 3:00:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/12/2013 2:52:24 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/12/2013 2:50:58 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 1/12/2013 2:12:59 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/12/2013 2:04:48 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
I like just below that, "deport anyone who signed the petition to to have their state secede from the union".

If you're serious about this, each state has a process of secession. Last I checked, Vermont was the closest (like step 3 of 10) state to actually seceding.

For all their blustering, Texas has never come close.

I liked the petition thing, but it was kind of a waste of time since it held no weight, and each state has a true way to secede should their citizens push for it hard enough (shouldn't require violence, but it could, I suppose)

But Texas is more likely to succeed if it decides to become a state. Vermont is a landlocked state, so all America has to do is convince Canada to withhold imports to Vermont and they're screwed. They'd have to rely on Canadian ports and US ports in order to export any goods/services too. Plus Vermont's population is way too low. Oh and Vermont doesn't have any military bases while Texas does.

You really think Canada will do that?

do what?

Stop exporting to Vermont.
Hell, Vermont would probably join Canada if they seceded.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
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1/12/2013 3:04:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/12/2013 2:32:15 PM, DoctorDeku wrote:
Malcom, Texas was one of the two states in the union that willingly joined the US while being it's own sovereign nation, the other being Hawaii. I'd like to see you justify that Texas has never come close to having the right to succeed with an effective warrant.

I didn't say they don't have the right to secede. Every state has this right.

I said that they've never come close to asserting or exercising their right.

They hoot and they holler, and for all the noise they make, they will never leave the union, because they are more dependent on the federal government than any other state out there...maybe except Alaska...
War is over, if you want it.

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darkkermit
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1/12/2013 3:04:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/12/2013 3:00:12 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 1/12/2013 2:52:24 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/12/2013 2:50:58 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 1/12/2013 2:12:59 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/12/2013 2:04:48 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
I like just below that, "deport anyone who signed the petition to to have their state secede from the union".

If you're serious about this, each state has a process of secession. Last I checked, Vermont was the closest (like step 3 of 10) state to actually seceding.

For all their blustering, Texas has never come close.

I liked the petition thing, but it was kind of a waste of time since it held no weight, and each state has a true way to secede should their citizens push for it hard enough (shouldn't require violence, but it could, I suppose)

But Texas is more likely to succeed if it decides to become a state. Vermont is a landlocked state, so all America has to do is convince Canada to withhold imports to Vermont and they're screwed. They'd have to rely on Canadian ports and US ports in order to export any goods/services too. Plus Vermont's population is way too low. Oh and Vermont doesn't have any military bases while Texas does.

You really think Canada will do that?

do what?

Stop exporting to Vermont.
Hell, Vermont would probably join Canada if they seceded.

I think so. Canada and the US are pretty powerful allies. But even if Canada does allow exports, Vermont still pretty much dependent on Canada for survival, and US ports are much closer then Canadian ports.
Open borders debate:
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bossyburrito
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1/12/2013 3:06:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/12/2013 2:52:18 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/12/2013 2:50:58 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 1/12/2013 2:12:59 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/12/2013 2:04:48 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
I like just below that, "deport anyone who signed the petition to to have their state secede from the union".

If you're serious about this, each state has a process of secession. Last I checked, Vermont was the closest (like step 3 of 10) state to actually seceding.

For all their blustering, Texas has never come close.

I liked the petition thing, but it was kind of a waste of time since it held no weight, and each state has a true way to secede should their citizens push for it hard enough (shouldn't require violence, but it could, I suppose)

But Texas is more likely to succeed if it decides to become a state. Vermont is a landlocked state, so all America has to do is convince Canada to withhold imports to Vermont and they're screwed. They'd have to rely on Canadian ports and US ports in order to export any goods/services too. Plus Vermont's population is way too low. Oh and Vermont doesn't have any military bases while Texas does.

You really think Canada will do that?

We buy a massive amount from them.

Even if they did, it would cause an uproar in the people of both the US and Canada.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
darkkermit
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1/12/2013 3:06:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I mean, just think how much more expensive Canada can charge Vermont and how more more cheaper Vermont sells to Canada. Vermont would be Canada's b1tch.
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bossyburrito
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1/12/2013 3:08:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/12/2013 3:04:28 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/12/2013 3:00:12 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 1/12/2013 2:52:24 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/12/2013 2:50:58 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 1/12/2013 2:12:59 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/12/2013 2:04:48 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
I like just below that, "deport anyone who signed the petition to to have their state secede from the union".

If you're serious about this, each state has a process of secession. Last I checked, Vermont was the closest (like step 3 of 10) state to actually seceding.

For all their blustering, Texas has never come close.

I liked the petition thing, but it was kind of a waste of time since it held no weight, and each state has a true way to secede should their citizens push for it hard enough (shouldn't require violence, but it could, I suppose)

But Texas is more likely to succeed if it decides to become a state. Vermont is a landlocked state, so all America has to do is convince Canada to withhold imports to Vermont and they're screwed. They'd have to rely on Canadian ports and US ports in order to export any goods/services too. Plus Vermont's population is way too low. Oh and Vermont doesn't have any military bases while Texas does.

You really think Canada will do that?

do what?

Stop exporting to Vermont.
Hell, Vermont would probably join Canada if they seceded.

I think so. Canada and the US are pretty powerful allies. But even if Canada does allow exports, Vermont still pretty much dependent on Canada for survival, and US ports are much closer then Canadian ports.

If Vermont joined Canada, do you think the US will go to war?

Even if they did, Canada could stop exporting fuel to the US.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
malcolmxy
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1/12/2013 3:13:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
We can't go to war with Canada. Where would we get the oil to run the tanks/planes/etc?

We make more of our own oil than anyone else, but Canada is #1 for foreign sources (which is why all those terrorists are so scary...ya know the ones...on mooseback)
War is over, if you want it.

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Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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1/12/2013 3:14:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/12/2013 2:12:59 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/12/2013 2:04:48 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
I like just below that, "deport anyone who signed the petition to to have their state secede from the union".

If you're serious about this, each state has a process of secession. Last I checked, Vermont was the closest (like step 3 of 10) state to actually seceding.

For all their blustering, Texas has never come close.

I liked the petition thing, but it was kind of a waste of time since it held no weight, and each state has a true way to secede should their citizens push for it hard enough (shouldn't require violence, but it could, I suppose)

But Texas is more likely to succeed if it decides to become a state. Vermont is a landlocked state, so all America has to do is convince Canada to withhold imports to Vermont and they're screwed. They'd have to rely on Canadian ports and US ports in order to export any goods/services too. Plus Vermont's population is way too low. Oh and Vermont doesn't have any military bases while Texas does.

1) Exports/Imports are not required for a nation to survive (they may make life easier, but they are not a requirement).

2) A military base definitely isn't required, unless you believe that either Canada or the US is going to invade.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
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1/12/2013 3:17:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/12/2013 2:52:18 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/12/2013 2:50:58 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 1/12/2013 2:12:59 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/12/2013 2:04:48 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
I like just below that, "deport anyone who signed the petition to to have their state secede from the union".

If you're serious about this, each state has a process of secession. Last I checked, Vermont was the closest (like step 3 of 10) state to actually seceding.

For all their blustering, Texas has never come close.

I liked the petition thing, but it was kind of a waste of time since it held no weight, and each state has a true way to secede should their citizens push for it hard enough (shouldn't require violence, but it could, I suppose)

But Texas is more likely to succeed if it decides to become a state. Vermont is a landlocked state, so all America has to do is convince Canada to withhold imports to Vermont and they're screwed. They'd have to rely on Canadian ports and US ports in order to export any goods/services too. Plus Vermont's population is way too low. Oh and Vermont doesn't have any military bases while Texas does.

You really think Canada will do that?

We buy a massive amount from them.

Like we would be able to cut our Oil imports from them any time soon. We need that oil more than they need to sell it to us. They have plenty of other customers that would only need to pay a little more (I'm sure a number of European nations would like a boost to their supply of oil as they pay something like $9 a gallon).
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
darkkermit
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1/12/2013 3:23:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/12/2013 3:14:22 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 1/12/2013 2:12:59 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/12/2013 2:04:48 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
I like just below that, "deport anyone who signed the petition to to have their state secede from the union".

If you're serious about this, each state has a process of secession. Last I checked, Vermont was the closest (like step 3 of 10) state to actually seceding.

For all their blustering, Texas has never come close.

I liked the petition thing, but it was kind of a waste of time since it held no weight, and each state has a true way to secede should their citizens push for it hard enough (shouldn't require violence, but it could, I suppose)

But Texas is more likely to succeed if it decides to become a state. Vermont is a landlocked state, so all America has to do is convince Canada to withhold imports to Vermont and they're screwed. They'd have to rely on Canadian ports and US ports in order to export any goods/services too. Plus Vermont's population is way too low. Oh and Vermont doesn't have any military bases while Texas does.

1) Exports/Imports are not required for a nation to survive (they may make life easier, but they are not a requirement).

Vermont doesn't even have enough farms to even support their agricultural. At least not initially. And it would need to buy tractors and farming equipment to support their agricultural. And who knows If Vermont has enough of them (don't know where they exist). Even if we assume that they at least have enough for "survival', the population of Vermont isn't going to be happy with their economic standard greatly reduced, and would rejoin the union. Either that or join Canada.

2) A military base definitely isn't required, unless you believe that either Canada or the US is going to invade.

If Vermont seceded, I believe the US would invade.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
Ore_Ele
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1/12/2013 3:28:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/12/2013 3:23:28 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/12/2013 3:14:22 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 1/12/2013 2:12:59 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/12/2013 2:04:48 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
I like just below that, "deport anyone who signed the petition to to have their state secede from the union".

If you're serious about this, each state has a process of secession. Last I checked, Vermont was the closest (like step 3 of 10) state to actually seceding.

For all their blustering, Texas has never come close.

I liked the petition thing, but it was kind of a waste of time since it held no weight, and each state has a true way to secede should their citizens push for it hard enough (shouldn't require violence, but it could, I suppose)

But Texas is more likely to succeed if it decides to become a state. Vermont is a landlocked state, so all America has to do is convince Canada to withhold imports to Vermont and they're screwed. They'd have to rely on Canadian ports and US ports in order to export any goods/services too. Plus Vermont's population is way too low. Oh and Vermont doesn't have any military bases while Texas does.

1) Exports/Imports are not required for a nation to survive (they may make life easier, but they are not a requirement).

Vermont doesn't even have enough farms to even support their agricultural. At least not initially. And it would need to buy tractors and farming equipment to support their agricultural. And who knows If Vermont has enough of them (don't know where they exist). Even if we assume that they at least have enough for "survival', the population of Vermont isn't going to be happy with their economic standard greatly reduced, and would rejoin the union. Either that or join Canada.

I think it is reasonable that if the state is going to secede, they are going to prepare for it in advanced. Such as purchasing equipment that it will need, sell off assets that will not be needed when it is independent, etc.



2) A military base definitely isn't required, unless you believe that either Canada or the US is going to invade.

If Vermont seceded, I believe the US would invade.

If that was the case, then the US would not allow them to secede in the first place.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
darkkermit
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1/12/2013 3:36:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/12/2013 3:28:26 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 1/12/2013 3:23:28 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/12/2013 3:14:22 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 1/12/2013 2:12:59 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/12/2013 2:04:48 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
I like just below that, "deport anyone who signed the petition to to have their state secede from the union".

If you're serious about this, each state has a process of secession. Last I checked, Vermont was the closest (like step 3 of 10) state to actually seceding.

For all their blustering, Texas has never come close.

I liked the petition thing, but it was kind of a waste of time since it held no weight, and each state has a true way to secede should their citizens push for it hard enough (shouldn't require violence, but it could, I suppose)

But Texas is more likely to succeed if it decides to become a state. Vermont is a landlocked state, so all America has to do is convince Canada to withhold imports to Vermont and they're screwed. They'd have to rely on Canadian ports and US ports in order to export any goods/services too. Plus Vermont's population is way too low. Oh and Vermont doesn't have any military bases while Texas does.

1) Exports/Imports are not required for a nation to survive (they may make life easier, but they are not a requirement).

Vermont doesn't even have enough farms to even support their agricultural. At least not initially. And it would need to buy tractors and farming equipment to support their agricultural. And who knows If Vermont has enough of them (don't know where they exist). Even if we assume that they at least have enough for "survival', the population of Vermont isn't going to be happy with their economic standard greatly reduced, and would rejoin the union. Either that or join Canada.

I think it is reasonable that if the state is going to secede, they are going to prepare for it in advanced. Such as purchasing equipment that it will need, sell off assets that will not be needed when it is independent, etc.


But then the nation would find out. They can't exactly plan for it without the nation knowing that they plan on seceding. Perhaps an "emergency asset plan" would exist before talks of seceding occurred, but that's quite an expensive program to maintain "just in case of secession". None of the southern states had these programs set up in advance, although southern states were in much better condition for secession considering it was a larger landmass, there was less globalization, and they weren't landlocked (which is a big deal).



2) A military base definitely isn't required, unless you believe that either Canada or the US is going to invade.

If Vermont seceded, I believe the US would invade.

If that was the case, then the US would not allow them to secede in the first place.

Its already been established that the US wouldn't allow secession to occur, as that's what the response the WH freakin' gave. Although the question is how much either party is willing to "fight for it".
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thett3
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1/12/2013 4:17:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/12/2013 1:54:29 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Like any debater on DDO with a mediocre debate record could shatter their "argument". And this had a delayed response.

What made you expect an actual argument? This is coming from the white house whos president who thinks aggressively stealing wealth is "asking for a little more" and that the "rich" need to pay their "fair share" (with no explanation as to what that means). Seriously, other than on foreign policy, when was the last time the white house made any actual argument for anything (to the public)?
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: thett was right
DoctorDeku
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1/12/2013 4:37:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/12/2013 3:04:17 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 1/12/2013 2:32:15 PM, DoctorDeku wrote:
Malcom, Texas was one of the two states in the union that willingly joined the US while being it's own sovereign nation, the other being Hawaii. I'd like to see you justify that Texas has never come close to having the right to succeed with an effective warrant.

I didn't say they don't have the right to secede. Every state has this right.

I said that they've never come close to asserting or exercising their right.

They hoot and they holler, and for all the noise they make, they will never leave the union, because they are more dependent on the federal government than any other state out there...maybe except Alaska...

Forgive my misunderstanding, about secession (though I think it could be argued whether or not every state has such a right).

As fr dependence, I'd still challenge you to prove that claim. Texas has a balanced budget, one of the best economies in the state and a myriad of natural resources.
RoyLatham
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1/13/2013 11:33:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
No one is going to fight a war of secession. It just offers no prospects of being worth the price that would have to be paid. So if the U.S. is broken up, it will have to be by mutual consent.

The liberal vision for the future of the United States is mediocrity and government control of individual lives. They think it isn't fair for the U.S. to have a leading military or economic role in the world, or a leading role in the intellectual defense of freedom as a governing principle of government. Modern liberalism puts the greatest value on controlling the details of people's economic lives under the principle that the ruling elite knows what's best.

So why wouldn't the ruling leftist elite agree to let Texas separate? The main reason is that they would be denied the control of the lives of all those citizens, but in every other respect it is a plus for them. It promotes uniform mediocrity, reducing the standing of the US as a whole, and gets rid of troublesome dissenters.

We are just starting the process of consolidating leftist rule. It's probably going to take decades to play out. I don't know what's going to happen, but it seems to me that a breakup would serve the main objectives of both sides and therefore cannot be ruled out. It's similar to a religion casting out a minority of non-believers.
darkkermit
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1/13/2013 11:51:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/12/2013 4:17:51 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 1/12/2013 1:54:29 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Like any debater on DDO with a mediocre debate record could shatter their "argument". And this had a delayed response.

What made you expect an actual argument? This is coming from the white house whos president who thinks aggressively stealing wealth is "asking for a little more" and that the "rich" need to pay their "fair share" (with no explanation as to what that means). Seriously, other than on foreign policy, when was the last time the white house made any actual argument for anything (to the public)?

idk, maybe i think too highly of the federal government.
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