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Natural rights

DanT
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1/19/2013 3:14:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
All men are born with a set of natural rights, which are essential to the happiness and prosperity of any and all nations. These sacred rights are not determined by the laws of man, but rather the laws of human nature. Among these inherent rights of man are the rights to life, liberty, and property. All men have the inalienable right to enjoy life, and liberty, as well as to acquire, and possess property. Likewise all men have the essential right to defend their natural rights, along with the rights of their family and their community.

When men decide to enter into a state of society, they surrender a portion of their rights to the leaders of that society; in exchange the governing body protects the life, liberty, and property of the whole community. If the protection offered is neither equivalent to nor greater than the rights surrendered, than the surrender is rendered void. All governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed, and are instituted for the common benefit, and protection of the entire community, and not for the personal advantages of any one individual, group, or class of men.

When ever government manifests its self as a danger to the essential and inalienable rights of the people, the people have a right to peaceably assemble and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. If the government fails to redress the issues, the people not only have a right but a duty to alter or abolish the government, and institute a new safeguard for their rights. Likewise, when a region or sub-organization is oppressed by another portion of the community, they have a right to sever their political bonds with the greater community in order to establish a new independent government; individuals who find themselves in a similar situation have the right to renounce their citizenship and naturalize into a more desirable community.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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1/20/2013 10:20:50 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I see an assumption of rights.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

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Contra
Posts: 3,941
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1/20/2013 10:54:11 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Sounds like John Locke. The basic inalienable rights to life, liberty, and property!
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

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DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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1/20/2013 7:46:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
And...?
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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1/20/2013 9:55:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/19/2013 3:14:35 PM, DanT wrote:
All men are born with a set of natural rights, which are essential to the happiness and prosperity of any and all nations. These sacred rights are not determined by the laws of man, but rather the laws of human nature. Among these inherent rights of man are the rights to life, liberty, and property. All men have the inalienable right to enjoy life, and liberty, as well as to acquire, and possess property. Likewise all men have the essential right to defend their natural rights, along with the rights of their family and their community.

This part threw me off. Why? Human nature reacts to its environment, not these rights. Humans are what they are taught to be. If I taught someone that all men are his slaves, and he can kill them if he wants, then he would probably believe that, especially if I was his only influence.

So, where do these rights come from? Human nature? Human nature is whatever the hell people want it to be.
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DanT
Posts: 5,693
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1/21/2013 5:38:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/20/2013 9:55:40 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/19/2013 3:14:35 PM, DanT wrote:
All men are born with a set of natural rights, which are essential to the happiness and prosperity of any and all nations. These sacred rights are not determined by the laws of man, but rather the laws of human nature. Among these inherent rights of man are the rights to life, liberty, and property. All men have the inalienable right to enjoy life, and liberty, as well as to acquire, and possess property. Likewise all men have the essential right to defend their natural rights, along with the rights of their family and their community.

This part threw me off. Why? Human nature reacts to its environment, not these rights.
It's utilitarian; Humans instinctively react a negatively to certain laws, so they have certain Natural Rights (ius naturale) guaranteed by the the laws of human nature (lex naturalis). When natural rights are violated, it goes against human nature; the result is corruption, increased crime, and the overall destruction of the community's general welfare. The lex naturalis are objective law, whereas the lex humana or lex posita are arbitrary laws. Humans and Chimps evolve from a common ancestor. By studying the social organization of chimps we can learn more about our own society. Chimps usually enjoy an individualistically autonomous society. They wage war, and form political coalitions in order to democratically choose the alpha male; the alpha male is not always the strongest or biggest chimp, but rather the chimp with the most political support. The reason chimps form social organizations is for common protection from predators, and other chimps. Likewise, early man formed tribal communities to defend against predictors, and other threats; they are worked together to hunt large game. When the agricultural revolution took place, the tribal communities entered into a sate of society. By forming permanent settlements we gained achieved greater longevity, we gained more freedom, and we were able to retain more property (because we were no longer nomadic). The natural reason communities are formed is for the common protection of the individuals within the community, and the reason we enter into a state of society is to maximize our life, liberty, and property.

Humans are what they are taught to be. If I taught someone that all men are his slaves, and he can kill them if he wants, then he would probably believe that, especially if I was his only influence.

That is not an objective instinct that is a subjective philosophy that he learned. If you are taught to behave a certain way, it is not your natural behavior. When people kill someone for the first time, it is very traumatic; even for trained soldiers and law enforcement. When killing becomes routine, their brain adapts to it, and they learn to cope with it. Serial killers kill are usually people who are addicted to the rush, and/or are chemically imbalanced. Often serial killers become more intense over time, because their brain adapted to killing. It's called desensitizing.
It's not natural for someone to kill another human, and not be phased; that does not mean they cannot be taught to kill without being phased through desensitization.
So, where do these rights come from? Human nature? Human nature is whatever the hell people want it to be.

No human nature is not what the ever hell people want it to be. While our experiences make us who we are, our personalities are largely genetic. For example, the more poverty there is, the more crime there will be; it's human nature. All golden retrievers are hungry 24/7, because as a species it is in their nature. It is unnatural for a lion to go vegetarian, and it is unnatural for a mother to enjoy watching her baby getting eaten by a lion. It is unnatural for a bat to sleep all night, and be awake during the day. If you corner a frighten dog, you will get bit. If you step on a snake you will get it. If you shake a bee hive, the bees will sacrifice their lives to sting you; it is in their nature.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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1/21/2013 5:39:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/20/2013 10:20:50 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
I see an assumption of rights.
Not an assumption. I gave an explanation.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Mike_10-4
Posts: 29
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11/24/2014 4:48:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
During the Enlightenment Era, inspired by John Locke, Thomas Jefferson discovered our Unalienable Rights of "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness."

There is scientific empirical evidence all life has Unalienable Rights, which is an outgrowth of the physical Constructal Law, which is an outgrowth of the Laws of Thermodynamics. Therefore, Unalienable Rights is not man-made, but part of the physical Laws of Nature.
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According to Takac, there is an imbedded bio-program, found throughout all life. This bio-program is simply, once alive, "Life," must have the freedom ("Liberty"), in "the pursuit of" survival; otherwise, there is no life. Since we have life, survival is a form of positive-feedback and a prerequisite for human "Happiness." Hence, Thomas Jefferson's celebrated discovery, which he declared "self-evident" and used the labeled Unalienable Rights representing a polished version of this bio-program by the following, "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness."
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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11/25/2014 10:25:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/24/2014 10:49:07 PM, whatevs wrote:
What good reasons are there to believe that natural rights exist at all?

Human nature. While some behavior traits are acquired others are deeply embedded into out DNA. Our social structures, and most of our social customs (including smiling, handshaking, and so on) derive from primitive ape instincts. These rights are essential to prevent the breakdown of society, and civil unrest. When government is organized in accordance with human nature, the government will run more efficiently, and there will be less chance of civil unrest.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Mike_10-4
Posts: 29
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11/25/2014 2:15:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/25/2014 10:25:06 AM, DanT wrote:
At 11/24/2014 10:49:07 PM, whatevs wrote:
What good reasons are there to believe that natural rights exist at all?

Human nature. While some behavior traits are acquired others are deeply embedded into out DNA. Our social structures, and most of our social customs (including smiling, handshaking, and so on) derive from primitive ape instincts. These rights are essential to prevent the breakdown of society, and civil unrest. When government is organized in accordance with human nature, the government will run more efficiently, and there will be less chance of civil unrest.

"Social structures" are not only "human nature" behavior, such behavior is found throughout the symphony of life. We humans call it morality. Morality is the agent that keeps a group alive.

Morality is an outgrowth of life's Unalienable Rights in group formation. The binary values of morality is Right (moral) or Wrong (immoral). The objective of morality is doing Right keeping a group alive. That is, when two or more humans form a group, the group becomes alive. The life of the group is sustained through goodwill and kindness leads to a mutual moral respect for embracing the Unalienable Rights of the members within the group. Goodwill promotes order, stability, and harmony through the pursuit of group-wide positive feedback. Over time, group-wide positive feedback is the genesis of traditions, social values, beliefs, language, etc., the norms of society. These norms are tried and tested, and conservatively pass down from one generation to the next establishing its culture. A moral order guides an individual in the prudent exercise of judgment relative to those norms, going with the social flow minimizing civil resistance (Constructal Law). The individual in a civil society strives, albeit imperfectly, to be virtuous; that is, restrained, ethical, and honorable, respecting and embracing the Unalienable Rights of others relative to those tested norms.

The objective of morality is to keep a group alive, is the evolution of traditions, social values, beliefs, language, etc, the norms of society. The empirical evidence of the diversity of language and social norms throughout history and today demonstrates the universality of morality, a thread that runs through the tapestry of humanity and life, the genesis of group formation.

Morality simply refers to the binary state of Right or Wrong. These states generate mutual positive- or negative-feedback, relative to the Unalienable Rights of another. Mutual positive-feedback, in group creation, is found throughout the spectrum of life in the beneficial formation in schools of fish, flocks of birds, packs of wolves, tribes of humans, and in addition, inter-specie relationships, such as those between humans and their pets.

Hence, Morality is an outgrowth of Unalienable Rights, which is an outgrowth of the Constructal Law, which is an outgrowth of the Laws of Thermodynamics. Therefore, Morality is part of the physical Laws of Nature, not man-made.

And in saying that, perhaps, morality should be a subject of study in a science class.