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Founding Fathers Battle Gun Grabbers

GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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1/23/2013 10:44:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
The enlightened Founding Fathers smack down Liberal gun grabbers.

Laws that forbid the carrying of arms, disarm only those who are neither inclined, nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants. They serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.
" Thomas Jefferson, 1764

Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property" Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them.
" Thomas Paine

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
" George Washington

The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed.
" Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-B.

To disarm the people is the best and most effective way to enslave them.
" George Mason
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
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1/23/2013 10:46:37 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Gun debate over. Founding Fathers defeat gun grabbers.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
tmar19652
Posts: 727
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1/23/2013 10:55:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Geo, do you also believe that a woman's body can prevent pregnancy from rape? I'm a conservative myself, but many of your posts are over the top anti-liberal, even for conservatives.
"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." -Ronald Reagan

"The notion of political correctness declares certain topics, certain ex<x>pressions even certain gestures off-limits. What began as a crusade for civility has soured into a cause of conflict and even censorship." -George H.W. Bush
AlwaysMoreThanYou
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1/23/2013 10:56:43 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/23/2013 10:55:38 AM, tmar19652 wrote:
Geo, do you also believe that a woman's body can prevent pregnancy from rape? I'm a conservative myself, but many of your posts are over the top anti-liberal, even for conservatives.

Last I checked, Geo wasn't a conservative.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
tmar19652
Posts: 727
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1/23/2013 10:59:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/23/2013 10:56:43 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 1/23/2013 10:55:38 AM, tmar19652 wrote:
Geo, do you also believe that a woman's body can prevent pregnancy from rape? I'm a conservative myself, but many of your posts are over the top anti-liberal, even for conservatives.

Last I checked, Geo wasn't a conservative.

A lot of the stuff he says is though, and I do realize that he is a libertarian.
"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." -Ronald Reagan

"The notion of political correctness declares certain topics, certain ex<x>pressions even certain gestures off-limits. What began as a crusade for civility has soured into a cause of conflict and even censorship." -George H.W. Bush
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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1/23/2013 11:00:34 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Because the founding fathers were some sort of metaphysical beings of such perfection that, if they said it, it must be true?
tmar19652
Posts: 727
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1/23/2013 11:03:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/23/2013 11:00:34 AM, drafterman wrote:
Because the founding fathers were some sort of metaphysical beings of such perfection that, if they said it, it must be true?
Obviously!
"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." -Ronald Reagan

"The notion of political correctness declares certain topics, certain ex<x>pressions even certain gestures off-limits. What began as a crusade for civility has soured into a cause of conflict and even censorship." -George H.W. Bush
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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1/23/2013 11:13:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/23/2013 11:00:34 AM, drafterman wrote:
Because the founding fathers were some sort of metaphysical beings of such perfection that, if they said it, it must be true?

Because they are the brightest, most courageous statesmen freedom warriors to be born out of the Enlightenment Era. They were beings of critical thinking, knowledge, and a passionate fight for Liberty.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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1/23/2013 11:14:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/23/2013 10:55:38 AM, tmar19652 wrote:
Geo, do you also believe that a woman's body can prevent pregnancy from rape?

No clue, but highly doubtful.

I'm a conservative myself, but many of your posts are over the top anti-liberal, even for conservatives.

I'm all for Classical Liberalism, Noam Chomsky, Dennis Kucinich, etc. I'm against modern day Liberalism because it's destroying this country.

The Conservatives are right about core principles of Liberty, the Constitution, free market, self-sufficiency, independence, prosperity, the family, etc. I don't agree with the war hawks in the GOP, but the Democrats are even bigger war hawks than the Republicans, they just don't say it in their rhetoric.

Democrats are about government dependency, taking away wealth, disregarding the Constitution and trying to get around it in the name of "progress," high taxes, destroying the family, mocking spirituality, embellishing in pseudo-intellectualism, anti-gun, pretending to believe in civil liberties, etc.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
tmar19652
Posts: 727
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1/23/2013 11:15:03 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/23/2013 11:13:19 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 1/23/2013 11:00:34 AM, drafterman wrote:
Because the founding fathers were some sort of metaphysical beings of such perfection that, if they said it, it must be true?

Because they are the brightest, most courageous statesmen freedom warriors to be born out of the Enlightenment Era. They were beings of critical thinking, knowledge, and a passionate fight for Liberty.

This is true, but none of them were infallible, nor were they thinking about the realities of society in 2013.
"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." -Ronald Reagan

"The notion of political correctness declares certain topics, certain ex<x>pressions even certain gestures off-limits. What began as a crusade for civility has soured into a cause of conflict and even censorship." -George H.W. Bush
tmar19652
Posts: 727
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1/23/2013 11:17:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/23/2013 11:14:09 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 1/23/2013 10:55:38 AM, tmar19652 wrote:
Geo, do you also believe that a woman's body can prevent pregnancy from rape?

No clue, but highly doubtful.

I'm a conservative myself, but many of your posts are over the top anti-liberal, even for conservatives.

I'm all for Classical Liberalism, Noam Chomsky, Dennis Kucinich, etc. I'm against modern day Liberalism because it's destroying this country.

The Conservatives are right about core principles of Liberty, the Constitution, free market, self-sufficiency, independence, prosperity, the family, etc. I don't agree with the war hawks in the GOP, but the Democrats are even bigger war hawks than the Republicans, they just don't say it in their rhetoric.

Democrats are about government dependency, taking away wealth, disregarding the Constitution and trying to get around it in the name of "progress," high taxes, destroying the family, mocking spirituality, embellishing in pseudo-intellectualism, anti-gun, pretending to believe in civil liberties, etc.

I can definitively agree with you there.
"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." -Ronald Reagan

"The notion of political correctness declares certain topics, certain ex<x>pressions even certain gestures off-limits. What began as a crusade for civility has soured into a cause of conflict and even censorship." -George H.W. Bush
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
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1/23/2013 11:27:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/23/2013 10:44:48 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
The enlightened Founding Fathers smack down Liberal gun grabbers.

Laws that forbid the carrying of arms, disarm only those who are neither inclined, nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants. They serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.
" Thomas Jefferson, 1764

Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property" Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them.
" Thomas Paine

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
" George Washington

The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed.
" Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-B.

To disarm the people is the best and most effective way to enslave them.
" George Mason

Despite being from different political factions, all those people had one thing in common. Bonus points to whomever guesses it first.
War is over, if you want it.

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Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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1/23/2013 11:31:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/23/2013 11:13:19 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 1/23/2013 11:00:34 AM, drafterman wrote:
Because the founding fathers were some sort of metaphysical beings of such perfection that, if they said it, it must be true?

Because they are the brightest, most courageous statesmen freedom warriors to be born out of the Enlightenment Era. They were beings of critical thinking, knowledge, and a passionate fight for Liberty.

Why on Earth would a "freedom warrior" support the establishment of a strong central government, or a government at all? The "freedom warriors" were people like Patrick Henry who opposed the Constitution, a document which basically gave a few elites the illusory right to steal from people via taxation.
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Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
tmar19652
Posts: 727
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1/23/2013 11:32:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/23/2013 11:27:31 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 1/23/2013 10:44:48 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
The enlightened Founding Fathers smack down Liberal gun grabbers.

Laws that forbid the carrying of arms, disarm only those who are neither inclined, nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants. They serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.
" Thomas Jefferson, 1764

Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property" Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them.
" Thomas Paine

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
" George Washington

The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed.
" Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-B.

To disarm the people is the best and most effective way to enslave them.
" George Mason

Despite being from different political factions, all those people had one thing in common. Bonus points to whomever guesses it first.

They all owned slaves?
"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." -Ronald Reagan

"The notion of political correctness declares certain topics, certain ex<x>pressions even certain gestures off-limits. What began as a crusade for civility has soured into a cause of conflict and even censorship." -George H.W. Bush
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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1/23/2013 11:34:12 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/23/2013 11:13:19 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 1/23/2013 11:00:34 AM, drafterman wrote:
Because the founding fathers were some sort of metaphysical beings of such perfection that, if they said it, it must be true?

Because they are the brightest, most courageous statesmen freedom warriors to be born out of the Enlightenment Era. They were beings of critical thinking, knowledge, and a passionate fight for Liberty.

And yet... the issues of slavery and universal suffrage were something they just couldn't quite get a handle on...
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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1/23/2013 11:42:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/23/2013 11:15:03 AM, tmar19652 wrote:
At 1/23/2013 11:13:19 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Because they are the brightest, most courageous statesmen freedom warriors to be born out of the Enlightenment Era. They were beings of critical thinking, knowledge, and a passionate fight for Liberty.

This is true, but none of them were infallible, nor were they thinking about the realities of society in 2013.

I was listening to MSNBC Radio on XM yesterday and they said the same thing.

The problem is, the Constitution is timeless because they laid down self-evident truths. I don't care if there's flying cars and sky buildings, no one can say that consolidation of power, abolishment of free speech, etc. will be necessary because the rules have changed.

Technology doesn't change human rights. Politics has always been the same for the last several thousand years and they could envision what future political problems might arise.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
tmar19652
Posts: 727
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1/23/2013 11:44:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/23/2013 11:42:27 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 1/23/2013 11:15:03 AM, tmar19652 wrote:
At 1/23/2013 11:13:19 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Because they are the brightest, most courageous statesmen freedom warriors to be born out of the Enlightenment Era. They were beings of critical thinking, knowledge, and a passionate fight for Liberty.

This is true, but none of them were infallible, nor were they thinking about the realities of society in 2013.

I was listening to MSNBC Radio on XM yesterday and they said the same thing.

The problem is, the Constitution is timeless because they laid down self-evident truths. I don't care if there's flying cars and sky buildings, no one can say that consolidation of power, abolishment of free speech, etc. will be necessary because the rules have changed.

Technology doesn't change human rights. Politics has always been the same for the last several thousand years and they could envision what future political problems might arise.
But technology does allow for cheap background checks before purchasing a gun.
"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." -Ronald Reagan

"The notion of political correctness declares certain topics, certain ex<x>pressions even certain gestures off-limits. What began as a crusade for civility has soured into a cause of conflict and even censorship." -George H.W. Bush
BillKace
Posts: 2
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1/23/2013 11:44:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
"The "freedom warriors" were people like Patrick Henry who opposed the Constitution, a document which basically gave a few elites the illusory right to steal from people via taxation."

This used to have a check- it was the 2nd Amendment. People have and will continue to forfeit this right to balance power, because they do not understand what their power was, nor that they are losing more of it everyday.
Judge me on my actions, but please do not persecute me for my thoughts! (even though putting my thoughts to text Was an action.... Crap.)
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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1/23/2013 11:52:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/23/2013 11:34:12 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 1/23/2013 11:13:19 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Because they are the brightest, most courageous statesmen freedom warriors to be born out of the Enlightenment Era. They were beings of critical thinking, knowledge, and a passionate fight for Liberty.

And yet... the issues of slavery and universal suffrage were something they just couldn't quite get a handle on...

They wanted to abolish slavery on the Constitution , but they also wanted it to be ratified.

On suffrage:

Alexander Hamilton
A share in the sovereignty of the state, which is exercised by the citizens at large, in voting at elections is one of the most important rights of the subject, and in a republic ought to stand foremost in the estimation of the law.
[Alexander Hamilton, The Papers of Alexander Hamilton, Harold C. Syrett, ed. (New York, Columbia University Press, 1962), Vol III, pp. 544-545.]

Thomas Jefferson
The elective franchise, if guarded as the ark of our safety, will peaceably dissipate all combinations to subvert a Constitution, dictated by the wisdom, and resting on the will of the people.
[Thomas Jefferson, The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Albert Bergh, ed. (Washington: Thomas Jefferson Memorial Association, 1903), Vol. 10, p. 235.]

Thomas Jefferson
[T]he rational and peacable instrument of reform, the suffrage of the people.
[Thomas Jefferson, The Works of Thomas Jefferson, Paul Leicester Ford, ed. (New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1905), Vol. 12, p. 136.]

Thomas Jefferson
[S]hould things go wrong at any time, the people will set them to rights by the peaceable exercise of their elective rights.
[Thomas Jefferson, The Works of Thomas Jefferson, Paul Leicester Ford, ed. (New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1905), Vol. 10, p. 245.]
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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1/23/2013 11:53:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/23/2013 11:42:27 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 1/23/2013 11:15:03 AM, tmar19652 wrote:
At 1/23/2013 11:13:19 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Because they are the brightest, most courageous statesmen freedom warriors to be born out of the Enlightenment Era. They were beings of critical thinking, knowledge, and a passionate fight for Liberty.

This is true, but none of them were infallible, nor were they thinking about the realities of society in 2013.

I was listening to MSNBC Radio on XM yesterday and they said the same thing.

The problem is, the Constitution is timeless because they laid down self-evident truths.

What, that a slave is worth 3/5 as much as a free person? If the truths were self-evident then then we wouldn't have needed to immediately amend it (with much debate, BTW) with a Bill of Rights, nor amended it two dozen times since then.

I don't care if there's flying cars and sky buildings, no one can say that consolidation of power, abolishment of free speech, etc. will be necessary because the rules have changed.

Technology doesn't change human rights. Politics has always been the same for the last several thousand years and they could envision what future political problems might arise.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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1/23/2013 11:56:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/23/2013 11:44:53 AM, tmar19652 wrote:
At 1/23/2013 11:42:27 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Technology doesn't change human rights. Politics has always been the same for the last several thousand years and they could envision what future political problems might arise.
But technology does allow for cheap background checks before purchasing a gun.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
-- 4th Amendment
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
inferno
Posts: 10,689
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1/23/2013 11:59:49 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/23/2013 11:56:42 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 1/23/2013 11:44:53 AM, tmar19652 wrote:
At 1/23/2013 11:42:27 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Technology doesn't change human rights. Politics has always been the same for the last several thousand years and they could envision what future political problems might arise.
But technology does allow for cheap background checks before purchasing a gun.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
-- 4th Amendment

Geo. For the simple fact that you are no longer credible in terms of your deliverance. You are no better than the propaganda machine of NBC, CNN, and Fox News. How can you criticize a President who is only the middle man in an operational cloak of darkness. You are a fraud.......
tmar19652
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1/23/2013 12:03:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/23/2013 11:56:42 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 1/23/2013 11:44:53 AM, tmar19652 wrote:
At 1/23/2013 11:42:27 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Technology doesn't change human rights. Politics has always been the same for the last several thousand years and they could envision what future political problems might arise.
But technology does allow for cheap background checks before purchasing a gun.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
-- 4th Amendment

It is not unreasonable to do an online background check. There is probable cause to look into your background if you are buying a gun because i do not want a felon or a schizophreniac to be able to buy a gun.
"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." -Ronald Reagan

"The notion of political correctness declares certain topics, certain ex<x>pressions even certain gestures off-limits. What began as a crusade for civility has soured into a cause of conflict and even censorship." -George H.W. Bush
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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1/23/2013 12:17:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/23/2013 11:53:40 AM, drafterman wrote:
What, that a slave is worth 3/5 as much as a free person?

Lie. That's not what it was about. It was so that the racist South didn't get an unfairly large Representation in the House and have greater electoral powers. You're saying they should have let the slave-owning South have the power? It is a misconception that the founders believed that blacks were 3/5s the value of a free man. That is false.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

If the truths were self-evident then then we wouldn't have needed to immediately amend it (with much debate, BTW) with a Bill of Rights, nor amended it two dozen times since then.

Admittedly, because of some of the politics and the slave economy, they had some stuff in there to be fair for the time, But if the framers had their way, none of that stuff would be in there and there wouldn't be a need for that many amendments. The fact that they included an amendment process was another great foresight.

The truly timeless aspect of it was the Bill of Rights and the other great document, the Declaration of Independence, and that's the core of my argument.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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1/23/2013 12:19:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/23/2013 12:03:25 PM, tmar19652 wrote:
At 1/23/2013 11:56:42 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 1/23/2013 11:44:53 AM, tmar19652 wrote:
At 1/23/2013 11:42:27 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Technology doesn't change human rights. Politics has always been the same for the last several thousand years and they could envision what future political problems might arise.
But technology does allow for cheap background checks before purchasing a gun.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
-- 4th Amendment

It is not unreasonable to do an online background check. There is probable cause to look into your background if you are buying a gun because i do not want a felon or a schizophreniac to be able to buy a gun.

Agreed. I'm simply saying that the amendment covers that.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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1/23/2013 1:23:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/23/2013 12:17:44 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 1/23/2013 11:53:40 AM, drafterman wrote:
What, that a slave is worth 3/5 as much as a free person?

Lie. That's not what it was about. It was so that the racist South didn't get an unfairly large Representation in the House and have greater electoral powers. You're saying they should have let the slave-owning South have the power? It is a misconception that the founders believed that blacks were 3/5s the value of a free man. That is false.

But it's still false. Even if they didn't believe it, and put it in as some sort of political compromise, it's still a falsehood.


http://en.wikipedia.org...

If the truths were self-evident then then we wouldn't have needed to immediately amend it (with much debate, BTW) with a Bill of Rights, nor amended it two dozen times since then.

Admittedly, because of some of the politics and the slave economy, they had some stuff in there to be fair for the time, But if the framers had their way, none of that stuff would be in there and there wouldn't be a need for that many amendments. The fact that they included an amendment process was another great foresight.

The truly timeless aspect of it was the Bill of Rights and the other great document, the Declaration of Independence, and that's the core of my argument.

Except some of those framers disagreed with the Bill of Rights and not all of the proposed amendments made it in there.
Sidewalker
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1/23/2013 2:51:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/23/2013 10:44:48 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
The enlightened Founding Fathers smack down Liberal gun grabbers.

Laws that forbid the carrying of arms, disarm only those who are neither inclined, nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants. They serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.
" Thomas Jefferson, 1764

Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property" Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them.
" Thomas Paine

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
" George Washington

The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed.
" Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-B.

To disarm the people is the best and most effective way to enslave them.
" George Mason

They were talking about muskets, and nobody is trying to take away your muskets.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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1/23/2013 3:00:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/23/2013 2:51:05 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
They were talking about muskets, and nobody is trying to take away your muskets.

Prove it. They said firearms, not muskets you idiot. Where in the 2nd Amendment or their writings does it say you can only own muskets? Nowhere you fascist piece of crap. You have no knowledge.

If you want to bring context and time period into and use your argument, we should all be armed with military weapons because the Colonists had a stronger rifle than their oppressive British government.

The whole point of an armed citizenry is to have a balance of power between the people and the central government, but your retarded logic says that citizens with muskets is a good balance against military arms.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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1/23/2013 3:04:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
@Sidewalker

"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have SUFFICIENT ARMS AND AMMUNITION to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
-- George Washington

DO.YOU.UNDERSTAND.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
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1/23/2013 4:48:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/23/2013 11:32:13 AM, tmar19652 wrote:

Despite being from different political factions, all those people had one thing in common. Bonus points to whomever guesses it first.

They all owned slaves?

Ding, ding, ding, ding...Don Pardo, tell him what he's won...

It's a brand new boom stick to keep darky in line. Not terribly accurate, it's more of a "ready, level, fire" operation, but with enough of them, massa will have no problem with those pesky field negroes.

Now, tmar, would you like to keep your musket, or try your luck with the box that one of the lovely, Let's Make A Social Compromise spokesmodels is bringing down the aisle?
War is over, if you want it.

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