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Large Government

mauricio2
Posts: 129
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1/29/2013 1:30:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Hey! I need some help and I figured this was the place to ask. What are the benefits of a more involved government? I have to write a bipartisan essay on the best way to deal with the government's overspending/overtaxing problem and I'm having a really hard time thinking of anything beneficial coming from large government haha:) Any ideas?
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
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1/29/2013 1:45:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/29/2013 1:30:50 PM, mauricio2 wrote:
Hey! I need some help and I figured this was the place to ask. What are the benefits of a more involved government? I have to write a bipartisan essay on the best way to deal with the government's overspending/overtaxing problem and I'm having a really hard time thinking of anything beneficial coming from large government haha:) Any ideas?

infrastructure, liberty.

Argentina has housing guaranteed for every citizen in their constitution.

Gov't ain't so bad when it is working for the people. Ours rarely does anymore, which is why it leaves such a bad taste in your mouth.

Go look into Afghanistan's reliable power/energy issues if you'd like to see how a government NOT working can completely debilitate business's ability to operate and compete on the global market.
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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1/29/2013 2:05:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Before that, try justifying the modern concept of government. You won't be able to.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
mauricio2
Posts: 129
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1/29/2013 2:07:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/29/2013 1:45:59 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 1/29/2013 1:30:50 PM, mauricio2 wrote:
Hey! I need some help and I figured this was the place to ask. What are the benefits of a more involved government? I have to write a bipartisan essay on the best way to deal with the government's overspending/overtaxing problem and I'm having a really hard time thinking of anything beneficial coming from large government haha:) Any ideas?

infrastructure, liberty.

Argentina has housing guaranteed for every citizen in their constitution.

Gov't ain't so bad when it is working for the people. Ours rarely does anymore, which is why it leaves such a bad taste in your mouth.

Go look into Afghanistan's reliable power/energy issues if you'd like to see how a government NOT working can completely debilitate business's ability to operate and compete on the global market.

Regardless of the state our government is in, what benefits does large government provide? It can support people who can't support themselves... anything else?
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
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1/29/2013 2:31:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/29/2013 2:07:48 PM, mauricio2 wrote:
At 1/29/2013 1:45:59 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 1/29/2013 1:30:50 PM, mauricio2 wrote:
Hey! I need some help and I figured this was the place to ask. What are the benefits of a more involved government? I have to write a bipartisan essay on the best way to deal with the government's overspending/overtaxing problem and I'm having a really hard time thinking of anything beneficial coming from large government haha:) Any ideas?

infrastructure, liberty.

Argentina has housing guaranteed for every citizen in their constitution.

Gov't ain't so bad when it is working for the people. Ours rarely does anymore, which is why it leaves such a bad taste in your mouth.

Go look into Afghanistan's reliable power/energy issues if you'd like to see how a government NOT working can completely debilitate business's ability to operate and compete on the global market.

Regardless of the state our government is in, what benefits does large government provide? It can support people who can't support themselves... anything else?

Provide the power to make business work, literally.

You drive on the roads? Do you do so because you "can't support yourself"?

Only a large government would ever undertake space exploration, because there is no obvious pot of gold at the end of that rainbow. CERN is another example of exploration that only a government can undertake.

Also, providing minimum living standards for those who can't provide it for themselves, unless you plan to allow people to die of exposure and whatnot, saves you a massive, nearly metric f*ckload of money over time.

Quit being so narrow visioned if you really want an answer to this question.

Ask instead of assuming, unless you had your answer built into your head before asking the question.
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
BigRat
Posts: 465
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1/29/2013 2:31:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm no fan of large government. However, there are some things government is good at. Such as:

- Basic research

- Traditional infrastructure

- Military

- Security (police, firemen, etc.)

- Universal basic education (government isn't all that good at providing this, but it is good that they make sure everyone has this)

- Bas safety net

Unfortunatley, the federal government has gone well beyond what they are good at. Instead of funding basic research at the pre commercial stage, they are oftentimes giving subsidies directly to certain companies (Solyndra is an example). Instead of having a basic safety net, the government is slowly becoming a large and elaborate welfare state unable to fund roads and basic research.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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1/29/2013 2:47:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/29/2013 2:31:40 PM, BigRat wrote:
- Universal basic education (government isn't all that good at providing this, but it is good that they make sure everyone has this)

The single biggest reason why the education system is crap is because it is run by the government. The demand for schooling wayyyyy outpaces the supply for it. However, the government forces teachers to have lower salaries and not make it a lucrative job, instead of letting their salaries reach equilibrium and attract better individuals to the field. Essentially, they are imposing a price ceiling, causing a shortage of decent teachers. Also, it's almost impossible to fire a public school teacher.

Thank god for private schools.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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1/29/2013 2:54:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The benefits of larger government? I used to be all for that. I'm assuming you are talking about the federal government.

Some good things of a large government include (in theory):

Basic research
National Defense
Judicial system and Courts
Environmental regulations (to a degree)

Other things, like unemployment insurance, child protection, and workplace safety rules are things that should entirely be left to state governments.

Job training is hugely provided and funded by the private sector, so don't include that. And gov't job training is ineffective and expensive.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
BigRat
Posts: 465
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1/29/2013 3:00:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/29/2013 2:47:15 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 1/29/2013 2:31:40 PM, BigRat wrote:
- Universal basic education (government isn't all that good at providing this, but it is good that they make sure everyone has this)

The single biggest reason why the education system is crap is because it is run by the government. The demand for schooling wayyyyy outpaces the supply for it. However, the government forces teachers to have lower salaries and not make it a lucrative job, instead of letting their salaries reach equilibrium and attract better individuals to the field. Essentially, they are imposing a price ceiling, causing a shortage of decent teachers. Also, it's almost impossible to fire a public school teacher.

Thank god for private schools.

Teachers are compensated quite handsomely in the public sector.

And, the real problem in education is the whole idea of universal "liberal arts" and college.

We should have a system where more people are going to trade school.
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
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1/29/2013 3:01:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/29/2013 2:47:15 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 1/29/2013 2:31:40 PM, BigRat wrote:
- Universal basic education (government isn't all that good at providing this, but it is good that they make sure everyone has this)

The single biggest reason why the education system is crap is because it is run by the government. The demand for schooling wayyyyy outpaces the supply for it. However, the government forces teachers to have lower salaries and not make it a lucrative job, instead of letting their salaries reach equilibrium and attract better individuals to the field. Essentially, they are imposing a price ceiling, causing a shortage of decent teachers. Also, it's almost impossible to fire a public school teacher.

Thank god for private schools.

I had an inferior private school elementary education and was behind the 8-ball when I entered public jr. high.

We have the best university system in the world, by far, bar none.

An environment which is conducive to learning, coupled with nutrition and physical education are the top things which lead to better education, so what do we do when schools are failing?

Cut PE and after-school programs...because of pressure from people like you. Genius.

Don't blame government for you ignorance. Look inward.
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
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1/29/2013 3:02:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/29/2013 3:00:25 PM, BigRat wrote:

We should have a system where more people are going to trade school.

At the secondary education level. College prep ain't for everyone, and not everyone should be squeezed into that mold.
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
TheAntidoter
Posts: 4,323
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1/29/2013 3:06:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
In short:

Infrastructure
Liberty
Roads/transportation
NASA & Space exploration in general
Good Living Standards
Basic research
Traditional infrastructure
Military
Security (police, firemen, etc.)
Universal basic education (government isn't all that good at providing this, but it is good that they make sure everyone has this)
Bas safety net
Judicial system and Courts
Environmental regulations (to a degree)

That's a pretty good list.
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Nac.

WOAH, COLORED FONT!
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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1/29/2013 9:22:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/29/2013 3:01:41 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 1/29/2013 2:47:15 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 1/29/2013 2:31:40 PM, BigRat wrote:
- Universal basic education (government isn't all that good at providing this, but it is good that they make sure everyone has this)

The single biggest reason why the education system is crap is because it is run by the government. The demand for schooling wayyyyy outpaces the supply for it. However, the government forces teachers to have lower salaries and not make it a lucrative job, instead of letting their salaries reach equilibrium and attract better individuals to the field. Essentially, they are imposing a price ceiling, causing a shortage of decent teachers. Also, it's almost impossible to fire a public school teacher.

Thank god for private schools.

I had an inferior private school elementary education and was behind the 8-ball when I entered public jr. high.

We have the best university system in the world, by far, bar none.

An environment which is conducive to learning, coupled with nutrition and physical education are the top things which lead to better education, so what do we do when schools are failing?

Cut PE and after-school programs...because of pressure from people like you. Genius.

Don't blame government for you ignorance. Look inward.

When did I ever advocate cutting PE and after-school programs? Your "argument" doesn't address the central premise of my statement, which is that we shouldn't cut funding to specific areas in schools, but instead privatize the entire system.

Nice dodging the question, though.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
BigRat
Posts: 465
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1/29/2013 10:22:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Does more spending mean better outcomes in education?

I would say yes. But, there is certainly a diminishing return. And, we have to make sure the dollars are used productively.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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1/30/2013 7:02:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/29/2013 10:22:38 PM, BigRat wrote:
Does more spending mean better outcomes in education?

I would say yes. But, there is certainly a diminishing return. And, we have to make sure the dollars are used productively.

Right.

http://rickysplace.files.wordpress.com...
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
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1/30/2013 12:09:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/29/2013 9:22:15 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 1/29/2013 3:01:41 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 1/29/2013 2:47:15 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 1/29/2013 2:31:40 PM, BigRat wrote:
- Universal basic education (government isn't all that good at providing this, but it is good that they make sure everyone has this)

The single biggest reason why the education system is crap is because it is run by the government. The demand for schooling wayyyyy outpaces the supply for it. However, the government forces teachers to have lower salaries and not make it a lucrative job, instead of letting their salaries reach equilibrium and attract better individuals to the field. Essentially, they are imposing a price ceiling, causing a shortage of decent teachers. Also, it's almost impossible to fire a public school teacher.

Thank god for private schools.

I had an inferior private school elementary education and was behind the 8-ball when I entered public jr. high.

We have the best university system in the world, by far, bar none.

An environment which is conducive to learning, coupled with nutrition and physical education are the top things which lead to better education, so what do we do when schools are failing?

Cut PE and after-school programs...because of pressure from people like you. Genius.

Don't blame government for you ignorance. Look inward.

When did I ever advocate cutting PE and after-school programs? Your "argument" doesn't address the central premise of my statement, which is that we shouldn't cut funding to specific areas in schools, but instead privatize the entire system.

Nice dodging the question, though.

I don't believe privatizing the system is the answer, but then again, I've not seen a completely private education system in action.

You got examples where a country has privatized their education system?
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
BigRat
Posts: 465
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1/30/2013 4:37:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/30/2013 7:02:02 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 1/29/2013 10:22:38 PM, BigRat wrote:
Does more spending mean better outcomes in education?

I would say yes. But, there is certainly a diminishing return. And, we have to make sure the dollars are used productively.

Right.

http://rickysplace.files.wordpress.com...

Again, a diminishing return. Also, I would like to see the same data with some control factors. Perhaps I am wrong, but my guess is that we would see slightly more positive results for higher spending.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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1/30/2013 4:49:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
You drive on the roads?
Ever heard of tolls?

Only a large government would ever undertake space exploration, because there is no obvious pot of gold at the end of that rainbow.
If this statement is true (note that private corporations are getting into the space business now, but assume it were true), then it can be rewritten.

Only a moron would ever undertake space exploration, because there is no obvious pot of gold at the end of that rainbow and it costs way too much for something that has no rational expectation of returns.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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1/30/2013 4:50:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I mean seriously, you might as well cite the bridge to nowhere as cite NASA, they serve the same function.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.