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sadolite
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1/29/2013 5:30:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
America should adopt Mexico's immigration policies to ease the hatred the people Mexico have for US immigration policy. It would end the arguments of unfair immigration policies for people entering the US from Mexico. What could be more fair than your own home countries immigration policies. No attempts have ever been made to change Mexico's immigration policies in decades. Surely the people of Mexico would have changed them if they thought they were discriminatory like the US.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
CarefulNow
Posts: 780
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1/29/2013 7:25:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/29/2013 5:30:03 PM, sadolite wrote:
America should adopt Mexico's immigration policies to ease the hatred the people Mexico have for US immigration policy. It would end the arguments of unfair immigration policies for people entering the US from Mexico. What could be more fair than your own home countries immigration policies. No attempts have ever been made to change Mexico's immigration policies in decades. Surely the people of Mexico would have changed them if they thought they were discriminatory like the US.

Southern Mexico wasn't stolen from the Central American border states, so it's not quite the same.
sadolite
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1/30/2013 8:54:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/29/2013 7:25:14 PM, CarefulNow wrote:
At 1/29/2013 5:30:03 PM, sadolite wrote:
America should adopt Mexico's immigration policies to ease the hatred the people Mexico have for US immigration policy. It would end the arguments of unfair immigration policies for people entering the US from Mexico. What could be more fair than your own home countries immigration policies. No attempts have ever been made to change Mexico's immigration policies in decades. Surely the people of Mexico would have changed them if they thought they were discriminatory like the US.

Southern Mexico wasn't stolen from the Central American border states, so it's not quite the same.

Are you one of those people that thinks no country has a right to exist and continue defend it's exsistance because they won it in some war 1000 years ago? If so, all countries are invalid. Try to stick with current events and current reality, not ancient irrelevance.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,240
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1/30/2013 9:03:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/29/2013 7:25:14 PM, CarefulNow wrote:
At 1/29/2013 5:30:03 PM, sadolite wrote:
America should adopt Mexico's immigration policies to ease the hatred the people Mexico have for US immigration policy. It would end the arguments of unfair immigration policies for people entering the US from Mexico. What could be more fair than your own home countries immigration policies. No attempts have ever been made to change Mexico's immigration policies in decades. Surely the people of Mexico would have changed them if they thought they were discriminatory like the US.

Mexico was stolen from the Aztecs, so it's not quite the same.

Why bring up old wounds?
CarefulNow
Posts: 780
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1/31/2013 2:07:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/30/2013 8:54:03 PM, sadolite wrote:
Are you one of those people that thinks no country has a right to exist and continue defend it's exsistance because they won it in some war 1000 years ago? If so, all countries are invalid. Try to stick with current events and current reality, not ancient irrelevance.

It's clearly not irrelevant, because it defines the current borders. And yes, all countries are invalid. That doesn't mean people shouldn't defend their existence, it just means they shouldn't do so as arbitrarily-defined nations. So when Mexico stops guns at the border, that's good because guns are a threat to existence in general. But when the US stops people at the border because they were born on the wrong side of it, that's bad because all its defending is its monopolization of the territory and in particular capital's mobility advantage.
tmar19652
Posts: 727
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1/31/2013 2:31:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/31/2013 2:07:00 PM, CarefulNow wrote:
At 1/30/2013 8:54:03 PM, sadolite wrote:
Are you one of those people that thinks no country has a right to exist and continue defend it's exsistance because they won it in some war 1000 years ago? If so, all countries are invalid. Try to stick with current events and current reality, not ancient irrelevance.

It's clearly not irrelevant, because it defines the current borders. And yes, all countries are invalid. That doesn't mean people shouldn't defend their existence, it just means they shouldn't do so as arbitrarily-defined nations. So when Mexico stops guns at the border, that's good because guns are a threat to existence in general. But when the US stops people at the border because they were born on the wrong side of it, that's bad because all its defending is its monopolization of the territory and in particular capital's mobility advantage.

So criminals and terrorists should not be excluded from immigrating to the us?
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ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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1/31/2013 2:34:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/31/2013 2:07:00 PM, CarefulNow wrote:
At 1/30/2013 8:54:03 PM, sadolite wrote:
Are you one of those people that thinks no country has a right to exist and continue defend it's exsistance because they won it in some war 1000 years ago? If so, all countries are invalid. Try to stick with current events and current reality, not ancient irrelevance.

It's clearly not irrelevant, because it defines the current borders. And yes, all countries are invalid. That doesn't mean people shouldn't defend their existence, it just means they shouldn't do so as arbitrarily-defined nations. So when Mexico stops guns at the border, that's good because guns are a threat to existence in general. But when the US stops people at the border because they were born on the wrong side of it, that's bad because all its defending is its monopolization of the territory and in particular capital's mobility advantage.

That is illogical considering without a governing body overseeing land what you would have is no taxes, so no law enforcement or roads or military or schools, now what would the world be with no law enforcement? You could be beaten up and killed for your possessions right now, and no one would stop this person, they would just go to the next place and keep doing it.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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1/31/2013 2:43:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/30/2013 9:03:07 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 1/29/2013 7:25:14 PM, CarefulNow wrote:
At 1/29/2013 5:30:03 PM, sadolite wrote:
America should adopt Mexico's immigration policies to ease the hatred the people Mexico have for US immigration policy. It would end the arguments of unfair immigration policies for people entering the US from Mexico. What could be more fair than your own home countries immigration policies. No attempts have ever been made to change Mexico's immigration policies in decades. Surely the people of Mexico would have changed them if they thought they were discriminatory like the US.

Mexico was stolen from the Aztecs, so it's not quite the same.

Why bring up old wounds?

Aztec didn't have a really good immigration policy then, did it?
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imabench
Posts: 21,206
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1/31/2013 2:44:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/30/2013 8:54:03 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 1/29/2013 7:25:14 PM, CarefulNow wrote:
At 1/29/2013 5:30:03 PM, sadolite wrote:
America should adopt Mexico's immigration policies to ease the hatred the people Mexico have for US immigration policy. It would end the arguments of unfair immigration policies for people entering the US from Mexico. What could be more fair than your own home countries immigration policies. No attempts have ever been made to change Mexico's immigration policies in decades. Surely the people of Mexico would have changed them if they thought they were discriminatory like the US.

Southern Mexico wasn't stolen from the Central American border states, so it's not quite the same.

Are you one of those people that thinks no country has a right to exist and continue defend it's exsistance because they won it in some war 1000 years ago? If so, all countries are invalid. Try to stick with current events and current reality, not ancient irrelevance.

LOL, says the fossil who uses tradition and the way things used to be to debunk Gay marriage and not accept reality.....
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sadolite
Posts: 8,836
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1/31/2013 8:14:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/31/2013 2:07:00 PM, CarefulNow wrote:
At 1/30/2013 8:54:03 PM, sadolite wrote:
Are you one of those people that thinks no country has a right to exist and continue defend it's exsistance because they won it in some war 1000 years ago? If so, all countries are invalid. Try to stick with current events and current reality, not ancient irrelevance.

It's clearly not irrelevant, because it defines the current borders. And yes, all countries are invalid. That doesn't mean people shouldn't defend their existence, it just means they shouldn't do so as arbitrarily-defined nations. So when Mexico stops guns at the border, that's good because guns are a threat to existence in general. But when the US stops people at the border because they were born on the wrong side of it, that's bad because all its defending is its monopolization of the territory and in particular capital's mobility advantage.

So you agree that we should adopt Mexico's immigration policies? As theirs are obviously better because they lost part of their nation in a war with the US. And they don't stop "people" from entering and living in their country that were born on the other side. (The US side)
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
sadolite
Posts: 8,836
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1/31/2013 8:19:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/31/2013 2:44:44 PM, imabench wrote:
At 1/30/2013 8:54:03 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 1/29/2013 7:25:14 PM, CarefulNow wrote:
At 1/29/2013 5:30:03 PM, sadolite wrote:
America should adopt Mexico's immigration policies to ease the hatred the people Mexico have for US immigration policy. It would end the arguments of unfair immigration policies for people entering the US from Mexico. What could be more fair than your own home countries immigration policies. No attempts have ever been made to change Mexico's immigration policies in decades. Surely the people of Mexico would have changed them if they thought they were discriminatory like the US.

Southern Mexico wasn't stolen from the Central American border states, so it's not quite the same.

Are you one of those people that thinks no country has a right to exist and continue defend it's exsistance because they won it in some war 1000 years ago? If so, all countries are invalid. Try to stick with current events and current reality, not ancient irrelevance.

LOL, says the fossil who uses tradition and the way things used to be to debunk Gay marriage and not accept reality.....

Are you sure you are responding to the right forum? This is about imigration policy. Not gay marrige. Flag for stupid comment of the week.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
sadolite
Posts: 8,836
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1/31/2013 8:26:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/31/2013 8:19:05 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 1/31/2013 2:44:44 PM, imabench wrote:
At 1/30/2013 8:54:03 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 1/29/2013 7:25:14 PM, CarefulNow wrote:
At 1/29/2013 5:30:03 PM, sadolite wrote:
America should adopt Mexico's immigration policies to ease the hatred the people Mexico have for US immigration policy. It would end the arguments of unfair immigration policies for people entering the US from Mexico. What could be more fair than your own home countries immigration policies. No attempts have ever been made to change Mexico's immigration policies in decades. Surely the people of Mexico would have changed them if they thought they were discriminatory like the US.

Southern Mexico wasn't stolen from the Central American border states, so it's not quite the same.

Are you one of those people that thinks no country has a right to exist and continue defend it's exsistance because they won it in some war 1000 years ago? If so, all countries are invalid. Try to stick with current events and current reality, not ancient irrelevance.

LOL, says the fossil who uses tradition and the way things used to be to debunk Gay marriage and not accept reality.....

Are you sure you are responding to the right forum? This is about immigration policy. Not gay marrige. Flag for stupid comment of the week.

Disrespect me and mock me all you want. The real joke is on you. You and all young people your age are gonna have to pay the 16 trillon dollar debt that we "old fossils" have saddled on you. . Bwaaahaahaaahaaahaaa.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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1/31/2013 8:35:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I've seen similar posts, except they talk about N. Korea's, Iran's, or Afghanistan's stance on illegal immigration (probably fictionalized) in that they are harsh.

It's just so amusing that people will point at countries that we don't want to be like, and say we should be like them.

Isn't one of the things that make America a good place to live is the fact that it isn't N. Korea, Iran, Afghanistan, or Mexico? Why would you want us to be more like them?
sadolite
Posts: 8,836
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1/31/2013 9:31:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/31/2013 8:35:50 PM, drafterman wrote:
I've seen similar posts, except they talk about N. Korea's, Iran's, or Afghanistan's stance on illegal immigration (probably fictionalized) in that they are harsh.

It's just so amusing that people will point at countries that we don't want to be like, and say we should be like them.

Isn't one of the things that make America a good place to live is the fact that it isn't N. Korea, Iran, Afghanistan, or Mexico? Why would you want us to be more like them?

That is the whole point of the thread. It shows how utterly uninformed and brain washed people are with respect to US immigration policies. The Mexican people would absolutely have a freak show fit if we mimicked their home countries immigration policies. I'll bet the vast majority don't even have a clue how discriminatory and bigoted their home countries immigration policies are. They are coming from a land that wrote the book on discrimination and bigotry with regard to immigration policy, not just people from the US but all people no matter where they come from.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
CarefulNow
Posts: 780
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2/1/2013 1:31:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/31/2013 8:14:52 PM, sadolite wrote:
So you agree that we should adopt Mexico's immigration policies? As theirs are obviously better because they lost part of their nation in a war with the US. And they don't stop "people" from entering and living in their country that were born on the other side. (The US side)

No to the first part, yes to the second. I mention the Mexican War purely to point out your hypocrisy, not to advocate reparations. I'm not quite sure why you put "people" in scare quotes, but if you're referring to contraband, I don't see how that's relevant. Law-abiding Mexican immigration is restricted via arbitrary numerical limits that serve only Mexican and, more importantly, multinational capital. The imprisoned Mexican population is of course doing formerly American jobs at prisoners' wages, even as the American working class chumps complain about the ones who escape, who do peasant work said chumps never did and never would have done in the first place.
sadolite
Posts: 8,836
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2/1/2013 4:20:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/1/2013 1:31:27 PM, CarefulNow wrote:
At 1/31/2013 8:14:52 PM, sadolite wrote:
So you agree that we should adopt Mexico's immigration policies? As theirs are obviously better because they lost part of their nation in a war with the US. And they don't stop "people" from entering and living in their country that were born on the other side. (The US side)

No to the first part, yes to the second. I mention the Mexican War purely to point out your hypocrisy, not to advocate reparations. I'm not quite sure why you put "people" in scare quotes, but if you're referring to contraband, I don't see how that's relevant. Law-abiding Mexican immigration is restricted via arbitrary numerical limits that serve only Mexican and, more importantly, multinational capital. The imprisoned Mexican population is of course doing formerly American jobs at prisoners' wages, even as the American working class chumps complain about the ones who escape, who do peasant work said chumps never did and never would have done in the first place.

"I mention the Mexican War purely to point out your hypocrisy," I ask you, what in the hell does the Mexican American war have to do with anything with regard to current immigration policy by either the US or Mexico. Further more what in the hell does someones wages have to do with anything. We are talking about today, right now, reality of today. We are not living in the 1800's. And the fact that someone will work for pennies is irrelevant to immigration policy. Also, whether or not you think Americans are chumps is also irrelevant. Maybe, imabench is right, immigration policy is really about gay marrige. As nothing you talk about is even remotely pertains to immigration policy.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
CarefulNow
Posts: 780
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2/1/2013 4:56:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/1/2013 4:20:50 PM, sadolite wrote:
"I mention the Mexican War purely to point out your hypocrisy," I ask you, what in the hell does the Mexican American war have to do with anything with regard to current immigration policy by either the US or Mexico. Further more what in the hell does someones wages have to do with anything. We are talking about today, right now, reality of today. We are not living in the 1800's. And the fact that someone will work for pennies is irrelevant to immigration policy. Also, whether or not you think Americans are chumps is also irrelevant. Maybe, imabench is right, immigration policy is really about gay marrige. As nothing you talk about is even remotely pertains to immigration policy.

If you don't understand how immigration policy affects wages, you don't understand economics. The more difficult it is for Mexicans to come to the US and seek alternative employment, the less leverage they have in negotiations with their current employers (more accurately, the lower the wages their current employers can dictate without their quitting). So that's obviously bad for Mexican workers, but it also increases multinational capital's incentive to outsource, which is obviously bad for American workers, hence my honoring those of them who oppose immigration with the title of chump. That the entire Southwest is the spoils of a war of conquest merely establishes that Americans would lack the right to restrict immigration even if they didn't lack a reason to.
sadolite
Posts: 8,836
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2/2/2013 12:09:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/1/2013 4:56:37 PM, CarefulNow wrote:
At 2/1/2013 4:20:50 PM, sadolite wrote:
"I mention the Mexican War purely to point out your hypocrisy," I ask you, what in the hell does the Mexican American war have to do with anything with regard to current immigration policy by either the US or Mexico. Further more what in the hell does someones wages have to do with anything. We are talking about today, right now, reality of today. We are not living in the 1800's. And the fact that someone will work for pennies is irrelevant to immigration policy. Also, whether or not you think Americans are chumps is also irrelevant. Maybe, imabench is right, immigration policy is really about gay marrige. As nothing you talk about is even remotely pertains to immigration policy.

If you don't understand how immigration policy affects wages, you don't understand economics. The more difficult it is for Mexicans to come to the US and seek alternative employment, the less leverage they have in negotiations with their current employers (more accurately, the lower the wages their current employers can dictate without their quitting). So that's obviously bad for Mexican workers, but it also increases multinational capital's incentive to outsource, which is obviously bad for American workers, hence my honoring those of them who oppose immigration with the title of chump. That the entire Southwest is the spoils of a war of conquest merely establishes that Americans would lack the right to restrict immigration even if they didn't lack a reason to.

A "leagal"" immigrant has no more or no less power than I as a natural citizen to negotiate wages at any place of employment. But if you want to try and include illeagal immigrants and their power to negotiate wages in this country. They should have no power and be deported. They are breaking the law by being here as they entered the country illegally. And again the Mexican American war is irrelevant and I would bet if you asked the average Mexican what year it was fought in and what it was about they couldn't even tell you. Much like the average American knows little to nothing about it's own history.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
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2/2/2013 12:19:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/2/2013 12:09:31 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/1/2013 4:56:37 PM, CarefulNow wrote:
At 2/1/2013 4:20:50 PM, sadolite wrote:
"I mention the Mexican War purely to point out your hypocrisy," I ask you, what in the hell does the Mexican American war have to do with anything with regard to current immigration policy by either the US or Mexico. Further more what in the hell does someones wages have to do with anything. We are talking about today, right now, reality of today. We are not living in the 1800's. And the fact that someone will work for pennies is irrelevant to immigration policy. Also, whether or not you think Americans are chumps is also irrelevant. Maybe, imabench is right, immigration policy is really about gay marrige. As nothing you talk about is even remotely pertains to immigration policy.

If you don't understand how immigration policy affects wages, you don't understand economics. The more difficult it is for Mexicans to come to the US and seek alternative employment, the less leverage they have in negotiations with their current employers (more accurately, the lower the wages their current employers can dictate without their quitting). So that's obviously bad for Mexican workers, but it also increases multinational capital's incentive to outsource, which is obviously bad for American workers, hence my honoring those of them who oppose immigration with the title of chump. That the entire Southwest is the spoils of a war of conquest merely establishes that Americans would lack the right to restrict immigration even if they didn't lack a reason to.

A "leagal"" immigrant has no more or no less power than I as a natural citizen to negotiate wages at any place of employment. But if you want to try and include illeagal immigrants and their power to negotiate wages in this country. They should have no power and be deported. They are breaking the law by being here as they entered the country illegally. And again the Mexican American war is irrelevant and I would bet if you asked the average Mexican what year it was fought in and what it was about they couldn't even tell you. Much like the average American knows little to nothing about it's own history.

It takes two to tango and these "ill eagles" you speak of, some with regionally nomadic families who have lived that way before our political borders were erected, and will do so long after they have been torn down, are not breaking any laws they weren't "breaking"before these artificial laws existed.

These people work their @sses off, often times because they are supporting a family in a place where jobs aren't available, and in most cases they pay social security and medicare taxes with no hope of receiving any benefits for a virtual lifetime of paying into these funds it's estimated that both funds might crash without these de facto donations continuing).

Plus, demand for labor comes from those who are doing the hiring. When someone has a free candy van, do you blame the kid for getting in or the psycho who abducted the kid for using the tactic?

Until we quit demanding their labor, the have every right to negotiate for better wages.
War is over, if you want it.

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sadolite
Posts: 8,836
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2/2/2013 12:27:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/2/2013 12:19:47 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 2/2/2013 12:09:31 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/1/2013 4:56:37 PM, CarefulNow wrote:
At 2/1/2013 4:20:50 PM, sadolite wrote:
"I mention the Mexican War purely to point out your hypocrisy," I ask you, what in the hell does the Mexican American war have to do with anything with regard to current immigration policy by either the US or Mexico. Further more what in the hell does someones wages have to do with anything. We are talking about today, right now, reality of today. We are not living in the 1800's. And the fact that someone will work for pennies is irrelevant to immigration policy. Also, whether or not you think Americans are chumps is also irrelevant. Maybe, imabench is right, immigration policy is really about gay marrige. As nothing you talk about is even remotely pertains to immigration policy.

If you don't understand how immigration policy affects wages, you don't understand economics. The more difficult it is for Mexicans to come to the US and seek alternative employment, the less leverage they have in negotiations with their current employers (more accurately, the lower the wages their current employers can dictate without their quitting). So that's obviously bad for Mexican workers, but it also increases multinational capital's incentive to outsource, which is obviously bad for American workers, hence my honoring those of them who oppose immigration with the title of chump. That the entire Southwest is the spoils of a war of conquest merely establishes that Americans would lack the right to restrict immigration even if they didn't lack a reason to.

A "leagal"" immigrant has no more or no less power than I as a natural citizen to negotiate wages at any place of employment. But if you want to try and include illeagal immigrants and their power to negotiate wages in this country. They should have no power and be deported. They are breaking the law by being here as they entered the country illegally. And again the Mexican American war is irrelevant and I would bet if you asked the average Mexican what year it was fought in and what it was about they couldn't even tell you. Much like the average American knows little to nothing about it's own history.

It takes two to tango and these "ill eagles" you speak of, some with regionally nomadic families who have lived that way before our political borders were erected, and will do so long after they have been torn down, are not breaking any laws they weren't "breaking"before these artificial laws existed.

These people work their @sses off, often times because they are supporting a family in a place where jobs aren't available, and in most cases they pay social security and medicare taxes with no hope of receiving any benefits for a virtual lifetime of paying into these funds it's estimated that both funds might crash without these de facto donations continuing).

Plus, demand for labor comes from those who are doing the hiring. When someone has a free candy van, do you blame the kid for getting in or the psycho who abducted the kid for using the tactic?

Until we quit demanding their labor, the have every right to negotiate for better wages.

don't include me in your "demanding labor" I have never once demanded labor from anyone, paid or unpaid. This living in ancient history and appliyng to current reality is absolute insanity. How many years must pass before a country is lagitimate wheather it lost a war or won a war. And then and only then can it establish laws about anything.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
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2/2/2013 12:32:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/2/2013 12:27:03 PM, sadolite wrote:

don't include me in your "demanding labor" I have never once demanded labor from anyone, paid or unpaid. This living in ancient history and appliyng to current reality is absolute insanity. How many years must pass before a country is lagitimate wheather it lost a war or won a war. And then and only then can it establish laws about anything.

I'm sorry, "we" was a generic term for those who do demand their labor, but I'm sure you don't eat apples, oranges, or any fruit of any kind, nor any products that include fruit in their ingredient lists, and knowing that Brand A used illegal workers and Brand B, at twice the cost, didn't, that you would only purchase Brand B.

Please accept my apologies for the earlier confusion.
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
CarefulNow
Posts: 780
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2/2/2013 1:13:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/2/2013 12:09:31 PM, sadolite wrote:
A "leagal"" immigrant has no more or no less power than I as a natural citizen to negotiate wages at any place of employment. But if you want to try and include illeagal immigrants and their power to negotiate wages in this country. They should have no power and be deported. They are breaking the law by being here as they entered the country illegally. And again the Mexican American war is irrelevant and I would bet if you asked the average Mexican what year it was fought in and what it was about they couldn't even tell you. Much like the average American knows little to nothing about it's own history.

That the Mexican War is forgotten doesn't negate its relevancy. Either the war is why you assert the US's right to, for example, this side of the Rio Grande, or it's a coincidence, but you certainly haven't proposed an alternative explanation. It can't, for example, simply be a preference for the status quo, as you routinely oppose all manner of status quos (welfare, your son's femininity, etc.). If you're against breaking the law per se, you obviously think the treasonous American Revolution was bad. Well, the only law an illegal immigrant necessarily breaks is the law that arbitrarily restricts his migration. Such law is relatively recent, by the way; your own immigrant ancestors didn't have to deal with it.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,240
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2/2/2013 4:21:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Minimum wage laws are in part responsible for a great deal of illegal immigration. I would be surprised to see many Mexican migrant workers taking advantage of Obama's amnesty knowing full well to do so would mean unemployment should the employer have to pay him minimum wage and also pay above the table for tax purposes. The only people that can fill sub-minimum wage jobs are always going to be illegal. Minimum wage laws will never eliminate these sub-paying jobs as long as people need them.

Politicians don't have the balls to rescind minimum wage laws, they instead just refuse to enforce immigration laws only for Mexican migrant workers, as they well know cheap labor means more Walmart, and better standard of living for all consumers.
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
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2/2/2013 6:40:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/2/2013 4:21:51 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Minimum wage laws are in part responsible for a great deal of illegal immigration. I would be surprised to see many Mexican migrant workers taking advantage of Obama's amnesty knowing full well to do so would mean unemployment should the employer have to pay him minimum wage and also pay above the table for tax purposes. The only people that can fill sub-minimum wage jobs are always going to be illegal. Minimum wage laws will never eliminate these sub-paying jobs as long as people need them.

Politicians don't have the balls to rescind minimum wage laws, they instead just refuse to enforce immigration laws only for Mexican migrant workers, as they well know cheap labor means more Walmart, and better standard of living for all consumers.

Actually, this can be made into a tenable situation without rescinding artificial wage floors (as I understand your outrage in paying people a wage which allows them to receive enough funds to cover food, shelter, clothing, transportation and communication...man, those politicians are some nutless turds for supporting these policies...

Go back to Russia, commies!!!)
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
sadolite
Posts: 8,836
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2/2/2013 8:48:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/2/2013 12:32:55 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 2/2/2013 12:27:03 PM, sadolite wrote:

don't include me in your "demanding labor" I have never once demanded labor from anyone, paid or unpaid. This living in ancient history and appliyng to current reality is absolute insanity. How many years must pass before a country is lagitimate wheather it lost a war or won a war. And then and only then can it establish laws about anything.

I'm sorry, "we" was a generic term for those who do demand their labor, but I'm sure you don't eat apples, oranges, or any fruit of any kind, nor any products that include fruit in their ingredient lists, and knowing that Brand A used illegal workers and Brand B, at twice the cost, didn't, that you would only purchase Brand B.

Please accept my apologies for the earlier confusion.

Convicts should be picking our fruit, free of charge to the growers. If they try to escape, shoot them on site. Problem solved. I have worked many crappy low paying jobs, they all led to one thing "opportunity" But since you think only illeagal immigrants will do crappy low paying jobs, you wouldn't know anything about that.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
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2/2/2013 10:25:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/2/2013 8:48:07 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/2/2013 12:32:55 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 2/2/2013 12:27:03 PM, sadolite wrote:

don't include me in your "demanding labor" I have never once demanded labor from anyone, paid or unpaid. This living in ancient history and appliyng to current reality is absolute insanity. How many years must pass before a country is lagitimate wheather it lost a war or won a war. And then and only then can it establish laws about anything.

I'm sorry, "we" was a generic term for those who do demand their labor, but I'm sure you don't eat apples, oranges, or any fruit of any kind, nor any products that include fruit in their ingredient lists, and knowing that Brand A used illegal workers and Brand B, at twice the cost, didn't, that you would only purchase Brand B.

Please accept my apologies for the earlier confusion.

Convicts should be picking our fruit, free of charge to the growers. If they try to escape, shoot them on site. Problem solved. I have worked many crappy low paying jobs, they all led to one thing "opportunity" But since you think only illeagal immigrants will do crappy low paying jobs, you wouldn't know anything about that.

It's not that I believe this to be the case. It's that it demonstrably IS the case.


http://articles.washingtonpost.com...

As far as your prisoner idea, OK Chairman Mao. You want I should take care of that sparrow problem for you as well?

The underlying reason, economists say, is that for most goods the labor " whether legal or illegal, native- or foreign-born " represents only a sliver of the retail price.

Consider those apples " Washington's signature contribution to the American food basket.

At a local QFC, Red Delicious apples go for about 99 cents a pound. Of that, only about 7 cents represents the cost of labor, said Tom Schotzko, a recently retired extension economist at Washington State University. The rest represents the grower's other expenses, warehousing and shipping fees, and the retailer's markup.

And that's for one of the most labor-intensive crops in the state: It takes 150 to 190 hours of labor to grow and harvest an acre of apples, Schotzko said, compared to four hours for an acre of potatoes and 1 " hours for an acre of wheat.

http://seattletimes.com...

So, just to recap -

YOU have BULLSHlT anecdotal evidence and your strong belief that you're right, even going so far as to start up forced labor camps (as if the prisoners we have don't already perform these tasks whenever permissible...unless you want maximum security prisoners running about...next time a person speaks English at an 800# you call, realize that you are most likely giving your credit card# to a convicted felon...).

I HAVE demonstrable evidence that you're as full of SHlT as I've known you were throughout, as well as evidence that raising the wages of these workers to the standard minimum wage increases prices by much less than the increase in wage encourages the economic freedom within Mexico and South America which would necessarily stablize their economy and reduce the overall illegal immigrant population over time, which given our symbiotic relationship is just as much to our benefit as it is to theirs, but I'm supposed to ignore reason in this case and mosey on over to your make-believe, albeit totalitarian side of the fence because why again?
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,240
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2/3/2013 1:55:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/2/2013 6:40:17 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 2/2/2013 4:21:51 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Minimum wage laws are in part responsible for a great deal of illegal immigration. I would be surprised to see many Mexican migrant workers taking advantage of Obama's amnesty knowing full well to do so would mean unemployment should the employer have to pay him minimum wage and also pay above the table for tax purposes. The only people that can fill sub-minimum wage jobs are always going to be illegal. Minimum wage laws will never eliminate these sub-paying jobs as long as people need them.

Politicians don't have the balls to rescind minimum wage laws, they instead just refuse to enforce immigration laws only for Mexican migrant workers, as they well know cheap labor means more Walmart, and better standard of living for all consumers.

Actually, this can be made into a tenable situation without rescinding artificial wage floors (as I understand your outrage in paying people a wage which allows them to receive enough funds to cover food, shelter, clothing, transportation and communication...man, those politicians are some nutless turds for supporting these policies...

Go back to Russia, commies!!!)

Glad you agree.
Amica
Posts: 29
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2/5/2013 3:55:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
One of the reasons why we have thousands of illegal immigrants in the country is the immigration policy/law. Legal immigrants cannot legally help relatives to immigrate. For instance, I cannot have my grandmother immigrate to the U.S. My parent can, but I cannot. So, Lord forbid, if my parent dies my grandmother would never come to the U.S.

I came to the U.S. 17 years ago, as a Bosnian refugee. My uncle died seven years ago, but his children survived. No one in my family, not even my mom (my uncle was her brother) cannot help neither of the children come to the U.S. because legally, the U.S. government does not recognize the family relationship.

The costs of having someone immigrate to the U.S. are rediculous: you pay at least $600/application, then you have to professinally have documents translated (e.g. birth certificates) and then you have to wait years for the visa numbers to come up. To adopt a minor child who is also your relative, there is another costly process there too (e.g. social worker's case stud-6 months at least in both countries, $$$ for application process).

The Mexicans have figured out a way to get the relatives across the border cheaper and faster. Hence, we have so many illegals in this country. I am against giving them amnesty, because I feel bitter about the whole idea of illegals getting a free ticket, while I--as a legal immigrant and later legally naturalized U.S. citizen, now have to wait 10 years for one of my aunts to immigrate to the U.S. How is that fair?
No one is really discussing the issue at hand. The U.S. fears immigration, yet other countries have done much better with their immigration policies (e.g. Canada) and do not have as many problems as we do.
tmar19652
Posts: 727
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2/5/2013 4:23:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/5/2013 3:55:11 PM, Amica wrote:
One of the reasons why we have thousands of illegal immigrants in the country is the immigration policy/law. Legal immigrants cannot legally help relatives to immigrate. For instance, I cannot have my grandmother immigrate to the U.S. My parent can, but I cannot. So, Lord forbid, if my parent dies my grandmother would never come to the U.S.

I came to the U.S. 17 years ago, as a Bosnian refugee. My uncle died seven years ago, but his children survived. No one in my family, not even my mom (my uncle was her brother) cannot help neither of the children come to the U.S. because legally, the U.S. government does not recognize the family relationship.

The costs of having someone immigrate to the U.S. are rediculous: you pay at least $600/application, then you have to professinally have documents translated (e.g. birth certificates) and then you have to wait years for the visa numbers to come up. To adopt a minor child who is also your relative, there is another costly process there too (e.g. social worker's case stud-6 months at least in both countries, $$$ for application process).

The Mexicans have figured out a way to get the relatives across the border cheaper and faster. Hence, we have so many illegals in this country. I am against giving them amnesty, because I feel bitter about the whole idea of illegals getting a free ticket, while I--as a legal immigrant and later legally naturalized U.S. citizen, now have to wait 10 years for one of my aunts to immigrate to the U.S. How is that fair?
No one is really discussing the issue at hand. The U.S. fears immigration, yet other countries have done much better with their immigration policies (e.g. Canada) and do not have as many problems as we do.

The answer to this is stricter enforcement of immigration policies. Allow legal immigration but slow the flow of illegals to the baseline of what the economy needs for cheap labor.

Also, the us should not recognize the family relationship. I am of the opinion that we should take the "best and brightest" of these other counties before we focus on keeping immigrant families together.
"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." -Ronald Reagan

"The notion of political correctness declares certain topics, certain ex<x>pressions even certain gestures off-limits. What began as a crusade for civility has soured into a cause of conflict and even censorship." -George H.W. Bush
CarefulNow
Posts: 780
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2/6/2013 10:57:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/5/2013 4:23:32 PM, tmar19652 wrote:
Also, the us should not recognize the family relationship. I am of the opinion that we should take the "best and brightest" of these other counties before we focus on keeping immigrant families together.

It's an amusing coincidence that you render your territorial granfalloon "the us". Hopefully, the we will institute a "best and brightest" policy that exiles the you to the moon.